Author Topic: Where do I find them?  (Read 2207 times)

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Offline magicmiles

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Where do I find them?
« on: January 12, 2012, 01:29:37 AM »
Hi

Reading through the content of the web site, I noticed there was the occasional reference to Santa as a means of equating the craziness of Christian faith.  Which led me to thinking, where do I go to find the web-sites dedictaed to refuting the existence of Santa?

You see, I used to believe in Santa as a Kid but now I see that he was just a harmless but imaginary person. But I am not satisfied with that...not me. I want to educate others who might be silly enough to still believe.

I guess what I am really asking is: what compells atheists to the sort of research and effort I see on this site?
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 01:37:18 AM »
Santa is not as harmless as you might imagine.

My girls didn't get what they wanted from Santa this year. I am basically broke. They think it's because they must have been "bad". I tried to explain to my oldest daughter that the tooth fairy wasn't real a few weeks ago. She thinks I was lying to her for some reason. I never wanted to raise my kids this way. I made compromises for my wife.

The belief in the fairy tales of Santa and the tooth fairy are distorting my children's perception of what's right and wrong.

How much more powerful and influential is the fairy tale of GOD?



Would you like to ask a more serious question or did you just come here to belittle us?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 01:39:49 AM by jaybwell32 »
Quote
"People want to get whatever they want to get. Do I care? No, I don't care. People need certain things" - Senator Leland Yee (D) California

Offline kin hell

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 02:05:33 AM »
>snip<
Which led me to thinking, where do I go to find the web-sites dedictaed to refuting the existence of Santa?
>snip<
I guess what I am really asking is: what compells atheists to the sort of research and effort I see on this site?

...........grinch genes


EDIT    ...... and welcome :)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 02:16:59 AM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline wright

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 02:10:18 AM »
Welcome to the site, magic.

I guess what I am really asking is: what compells atheists to the sort of research and effort I see on this site?

Speaking for myself, the continuing encroachment of religion, particularly fundamentalist Christianity, into secular politics and law in the US (and elsewhere). I find this very alarming, as I believe the deliberately secular origins of the US government to be one of my nation's strengths.

On this site I find a lot of like-minded people (including some theists) who share those concerns, plus the occasional visitor who disagrees. With them, I discuss and listen and learn.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 02:14:24 AM by wright »
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2012, 02:40:08 AM »
Santa is not as harmless as you might imagine.

My girls didn't get what they wanted from Santa this year. I am basically broke. They think it's because they must have been "bad". I tried to explain to my oldest daughter that the tooth fairy wasn't real a few weeks ago. She thinks I was lying to her for some reason. I never wanted to raise my kids this way. I made compromises for my wife.

The belief in the fairy tales of Santa and the tooth fairy are distorting my children's perception of what's right and wrong.

How much more powerful and influential is the fairy tale of GOD?



Would you like to ask a more serious question or did you just come here to belittle us?

Hi Jay

I certainly didn't join the site to belittle, although I can be guilty of sarcasm. I'll try to watch that.

Now, my first inclination is to interpret your response as "I feel compelled to strongly promote my belief that there is no absolute source of right and wrong ( the Christian God ) in order that my children don't get the wrong idea about what is right and wrong"

Is that a reasonable summary of what motivates you to promote atheism?

Oh...and bravo for making compromises for your marriage. it's a key to a happy one, even though that appears counter-intuitive at times.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 02:51:57 AM by magicmiles »
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 02:41:31 AM »
>snip<
Which led me to thinking, where do I go to find the web-sites dedictaed to refuting the existence of Santa?
>snip<
I guess what I am really asking is: what compells atheists to the sort of research and effort I see on this site?

...........grinch genes


EDIT    ...... and welcome :)

Grinch genes...nice! Thanks for the welcome
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 02:49:29 AM »
Welcome to the site, magic.

I guess what I am really asking is: what compells atheists to the sort of research and effort I see on this site?

Speaking for myself, the continuing encroachment of religion, particularly fundamentalist Christianity, into secular politics and law in the US (and elsewhere). I find this very alarming, as I believe the deliberately secular origins of the US government to be one of my nation's strengths.

On this site I find a lot of like-minded people (including some theists) who share those concerns, plus the occasional visitor who disagrees. With them, I discuss and listen and learn.

Thanks, Wright.

I'm not an American, but isn't there something in your constitution about "one nation, under God"?

I'd be interested in a more detailed discussion of how the origins of your govt was deliberately secular, and what specifically concerns you about a Christian influence in govt ( I assume nobody over there is promoting a return to levitican law?).
In a democracy, isn't the idea that elected officials govern the country according to the ideals of the majority of the population? Maybe I'm just naive...
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline hickdive

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2012, 02:50:08 AM »
Santa comes but once a year and all around he spreads good cheer.

However, Jesus and Mohammed are year round phenomena that spread misery and hatred. Furthermore, in the US, proclaiming one's belief in Jesus seems almost a pre-requisite for elected office, proclaiming one's belief in Santa somewhat less so.

We grow out of believing in Santa but people don't grow out of believing in theiry deity of 'choice' and they then try to force their beliefs on others by getting their religious drivel taught in schools and enshrined in laws. No-one, as far as I am aware, is trying to have flying magical reindeer taught in biology but there are lots of people trying to have creationism taught alongside evolution as 'equally valid'.

The 'harm' of believing in Santa is negligible, the 'harm' of religion is specific and identifiable. That's why people invest time and effort on websites such as this one but not on websites denying the existence of Santa.
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline grant

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 02:55:59 AM »
Hi

Reading through the content of the web site, I noticed there was the occasional reference to Santa as a means of equating the craziness of Christian faith.  Which led me to thinking, where do I go to find the web-sites dedictaed to refuting the existence of Santa?

You see, I used to believe in Santa as a Kid but now I see that he was just a harmless but imaginary person. But I am not satisfied with that...not me. I want to educate others who might be silly enough to still believe.

I guess what I am really asking is: what compells atheists to the sort of research and effort I see on this site?

Do you honestly think that web sites dedicated to refuting santa actually exist? Do you believe that such websites are required?

Wait, you answered my question, you do believe there are people silly enough to believe in santa... and you want to educate them!

For some unknown reason, even though everyone grows out of the belief in santa, belief in god seems to persist amoungst the dimmer intellects. WHY is an interesting question. So the research, effort and discussion goes on to try and understand the idiocy of belief in an omni* being that has has as much chance of existence as santa himself.
What if the hokey pokey is what its all about?

Offline grant

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 03:00:25 AM »
Now, my first inclination is to interpret your response as "I feel compelled to strongly promote my belief that there is no absolute source of right and wrong ( the Christian God ) in order that my children don't get the wrong idea about what is right and wrong"


Are you suggesting the christian god promotes an understanding of "right and wrong"?
What if the hokey pokey is what its all about?

Offline hickdive

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 03:06:07 AM »
The 'under god' thing comes from the US pledge of allegiance and dates from the 1950's.

The US constitution is deliberately secular to ensure freedom of religion. However, I suggest that it is difficult to engage in debate with someone who is ignorant (and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense) of the thing they wish to debate. For example, I know next to nothing about nuclear reactors and a nuclear reactor engineer would spend more time educating me on what one is and how it does it than 'debating' with me about the origins of their design.

I suggest you go and read the constitution and the history of how it was written rather than expect people to have to explain it to you, which would lead to a rather dull 'debate'.

Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline wright

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2012, 03:08:02 AM »

Thanks, Wright.

I'm not an American, but isn't there something in your constitution about "one nation, under God"?

A common misconception, one that is unfortunately prevalent among my fellow citizens as well. "One nation, under God," is found not in our Constitution but in the Pledge of Allegiance- and wasn't to be found even there until 1954, as a propaganda tool against the godless commies.

Quote
I'd be interested in a more detailed discussion of how the origins of your govt was deliberately secular, and what specifically concerns you about a Christian influence in govt ( I assume nobody over there is promoting a return to levitican law?).

You're probably in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a very vocal, well-financed minority of Christian literalists in the USA who want just that, or at least their version of it. I'll create a thread in the "Religion and Society" subforum; look forward to seeing you there.

Quote
In a democracy, isn't the idea that elected officials govern the country according to the ideals of the majority of the population? Maybe I'm just naive...

In a representative democracy, that's the basic idea, yes. The founders of the USA were concerned, among other things, with the protection of minorities as well as the majority. That in part is why there is (in theory) a clear separation of political power from religious power in our government.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 03:08:53 AM »
Santa comes but once a year and all around he spreads good cheer.

However, Jesus and Mohammed are year round phenomena that spread misery and hatred. Furthermore, in the US, proclaiming one's belief in Jesus seems almost a pre-requisite for elected office, proclaiming one's belief in Santa somewhat less so.

We grow out of believing in Santa but people don't grow out of believing in theiry deity of 'choice' and they then try to force their beliefs on others by getting their religious drivel taught in schools and enshrined in laws. No-one, as far as I am aware, is trying to have flying magical reindeer taught in biology but there are lots of people trying to have creationism taught alongside evolution as 'equally valid'.

The 'harm' of believing in Santa is negligible, the 'harm' of religion is specific and identifiable. That's why people invest time and effort on websites such as this one but not on websites denying the existence of Santa.

G'day Hick,

I like the way you started with some rhyming, so I'll respond in kind:

nah, stuff that, nothing rhymes with Mohammad. Phenomena is a challenge also.


You have discussed atheists in general....are these things your motivation also? What experiences have you had of a belief in God spreading hate and misery?

Some of your post I have kind of responded to in my reply to Wright above so I won't add to it for now.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2012, 03:15:49 AM »
Two things. One: If I'd had a computer when I was three, I'd be participating in the forum at HowInTheFuckDoesSantaDeliverAllThoseToysInOneNight.com.

Two: The One Nation Under God thing is not in the constitution. It is in the Pledge of Allegiance, a little ditty dreamed up to foster patriotism during WWII. And I first heard it without the god part, which was shoved into the thing in the early 50's during the McCarthy hearings, a proud moment in America's history.

In answer to your question. Christians band together and go to church and listen to sermons.

We like to speak for ourselves. Among other places, we do it here.

But I understand your confusion. American history isn't your only weakness. Believing that you have been inculcated into the one true religion (whichever version it is that you follow) is another. Funny how you were lucky enough to get everything right and we are so wrong. You just go on thinking that. What little extra confusion it adds to your life is inconsequential.

Note: Wright posted first with the pledge thing, which just goes to show great minds think alike. Get used to it.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2012, 03:18:32 AM »
The 'under god' thing comes from the US pledge of allegiance and dates from the 1950's.

The US constitution is deliberately secular to ensure freedom of religion. However, I suggest that it is difficult to engage in debate with someone who is ignorant (and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense) of the thing they wish to debate. For example, I know next to nothing about nuclear reactors and a nuclear reactor engineer would spend more time educating me on what one is and how it does it than 'debating' with me about the origins of their design.

I suggest you go and read the constitution and the history of how it was written rather than expect people to have to explain it to you, which would lead to a rather dull 'debate'.

Settle down...the US constitution was only brought up in respoonse to an aspect of a post...it isn't the main topic.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2012, 03:25:43 AM »

Thanks, Wright.

I'm not an American, but isn't there something in your constitution about "one nation, under God"?

A common misconception, one that is unfortunately prevalent among my fellow citizens as well. "One nation, under God," is found not in our Constitution but in the Pledge of Allegiance- and wasn't to be found even there until 1954, as a propaganda tool against the godless commies.










quote]I'd be interested in a more detailed discussion of how the origins of your govt was deliberately secular, and what specifically concerns you about a Christian influence in govt ( I assume nobody over there is promoting a return to levitican law?).

You're probably in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a very vocal, well-financed minority of Christian literalists in the USA who want just that, or at least their version of it. I'll create a thread in the "Religion and Society" subforum; look forward to seeing you there.

Quote
In a democracy, isn't the idea that elected officials govern the country according to the ideals of the majority of the population? Maybe I'm just naive...

In a representative democracy, that's the basic idea, yes. The founders of the USA were concerned, among other things, with the protection of minorities as well as the majority. That in part is why there is (in theory) a clear separation of political power from religious power in our government.
[/quote]

Wow, so you Americans might soon be stoned for various offences...that'll be interesting.

Let me re-phrase the question: in theory, if political officials with Christian ideals and plans to introduce same into legislation or education are given power, that means they have the support of the majority of the population. How can that concern somebody who belives in democracy ( I'm assuming you do )
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Offline wright

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2012, 03:27:03 AM »
magic, I started a thread here... http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21145.new.html#new

Feel free to stop by. For now, goodnight, or rather morning...
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2012, 03:28:06 AM »
Now, my first inclination is to interpret your response as "I feel compelled to strongly promote my belief that there is no absolute source of right and wrong ( the Christian God ) in order that my children don't get the wrong idea about what is right and wrong"


Are you suggesting the christian god promotes an understanding of "right and wrong"?

Yes.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2012, 03:38:38 AM »

Are you suggesting the christian god promotes an understanding of "right and wrong"?

Yes.

Which one is his favorite?
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2012, 03:41:52 AM »
magic, I started a thread here... http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21145.new.html#new

Feel free to stop by. For now, goodnight, or rather morning...

Thanks, probably not for a while though. It's Thursday evening here in Australia and the kids bedtime nightmare  - I mean, pleasant routine - is upon us.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2012, 03:43:05 AM »

Are you suggesting the christian god promotes an understanding of "right and wrong"?

Yes.

Which one is his favorite?

Between right and wrong? Right.

I'm out for now..talk later.
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Online One Above All

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2012, 03:50:44 AM »
BM.
Because I know this is gonna be funny.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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We choose our own gods.

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2012, 03:51:11 AM »

Are you suggesting the christian god promotes an understanding of "right and wrong"?

Yes.

Which one is his favorite?

Between right and wrong? Right.

I'm out for now..talk later.

Oh, okay. He's so good at both I was just wondering if he had a personal preference. Like, you know, in the book he's smiting babies and stuff all the time, and it sort of sounded like he enjoyed it. But you're the christian, so if you say he's prefers right, that's fine by me.

In the meantime, I sure hope he leaves all the babies I know alone. One is Egyptian...
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Offline dloubet

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2012, 04:10:09 AM »
In the US we live in what is supposed to be a constitutional democracy. The elected officials do not swear to uphold the whim of the majority, they swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America. And that constitution does not say that whatever the majority wants, the majority gets.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 04:13:48 AM »

Are you suggesting the christian god promotes an understanding of "right and wrong"?

Yes.

Which one is his favorite?

Between right and wrong? Right.

I'm out for now..talk later.

Oh, okay. He's so good at both I was just wondering if he had a personal preference. Like, you know, in the book he's smiting babies and stuff all the time, and it sort of sounded like he enjoyed it. But you're the christian, so if you say he's prefers right, that's fine by me.

In the meantime, I sure hope he leaves all the babies I know alone. One is Egyptian...

Hopefully your Egyptian baby acquaintance won't be a-NILE-alated.

Anybody? Anybody? Ah, tough crowd. Possibly a poor joke. Probably,even.

Sounds to me more that you dislike God rather than don't belive He exists. I get that same impression from many atheists. Are you sure there isn't just a SMIDGE of belief in your mind?
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2012, 04:15:59 AM »
In the US we live in what is supposed to be a constitutional democracy. The elected officials do not swear to uphold the whim of the majority, they swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America. And that constitution does not say that whatever the majority wants, the majority gets.

Thanks for that clarification.
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Online One Above All

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2012, 04:21:06 AM »
Sounds to me more that you dislike God rather than don't belive He exists. I get that same impression from many atheists. Are you sure there isn't just a SMIDGE of belief in your mind?

Belief is irrelevant to form an opinion. Do you like Darth Vader, Darth Sidious or Darth Maul?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2012, 04:29:06 AM »
True, Lucifer, that's a good point you make. I don't know anything about Star Wars, but I get your drift. I dis-like some TV characters that don't exist. But if somebody else loved them and claimed they were actually real I am reasonably certain I wouldn't take the effort to prove them wrong. Which is what we're discussing!! Such fun...
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Re: Where do I find them?
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2012, 04:30:47 AM »
But if somebody else loved them and claimed they were actually real I am reasonably certain I wouldn't take the effort to prove them wrong. Which is what we're discussing!!

If they were threatening to kill you, your children, people you loved or just people in general unless[1] you also believed, would you feel the same way?
Because that's what we're discussing!!
 1. Although in some cases "unless" can also be replaced with "even if".
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.