Author Topic: Speaking in GoDs Language  (Read 43294 times)

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #522 on: March 12, 2012, 09:59:19 PM »
That's not necessarily an indictment on any of you that have read it and haven't believed..or maybe it is. I don't know your hearts.

No need to know our hearts. They just pump blood. Our thoughts? Those are pretty important. Work on knowing them.
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #523 on: March 12, 2012, 10:08:10 PM »

I meant churches which are greedy and full of hypocrites, divisive and power hungry.


Oh, is that all. You can only tell a tree by its fruit.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #524 on: March 12, 2012, 10:09:03 PM »

No need to know our hearts. They just pump blood. Our thoughts? Those are pretty important. Work on knowing them.

Working on it, oh ye of Montana based construction jobs with 'possibly' more kids than he knows of
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #525 on: March 12, 2012, 10:11:30 PM »

I meant churches which are greedy and full of hypocrites, divisive and power hungry.


Oh, is that all. You can only tell a tree by its fruit.

Agreed. But we can change.
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Offline OnlyClarity

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #526 on: March 12, 2012, 10:20:58 PM »
Tell me if I'm wrong magicmiles, but the general impression I get is that you think it is pretty awesome that your friend could read a book and instantly change beliefs.  To me that is not really impressive in any way. What it says to me is that your friend is extremely easy to persuade and is quite gullible.  He has performed the wonderful feat of falling for not one, but two of the world's prominent belief systems in his life thus far!  Hey, get him into the Church of Scientology for a E-meter reading and maybe he will come out believing in Xenu too.  Worth a shot, right?

Joking aside now, I really disagree with you here.
I think you're missing my point, OC.

The lack of coercion and preaching I noted was a lack of any external preaching. No skilful, manipulative oration and emotional beseeching. Certainly the bible preaches a very clear and consistent message - part of it's uniqueness, given it was written by many people over many years.

The bible is anything but consistent.  Head on over to the Biblical contradictions section and look how many inconsistencies have been pointed out.  I do not need to sit here and repeat them all, but I will mention one.  Actually, this is the biggest one of them all in my opinion, and sadly it is essentially the crux of the whole idea of Christianity:

1. You have a god who claims to love us more than anything and who would do anything for us as long as we ask in his son's name.

2. This god then creates (making us this way, and knowing we will fail) mankind and sets us on a path that leads to destruction.

3. God then allows this failure to happen (and he knew it would), and tells us that we now have to bear all the pain and suffering of this world.

4. Now, he will actually keep his word from before and love/forgive us...but only if we bow to him and believe in his son. 
(side note: I find it funny how all this talk about forgiving is so prominent in the bible, yet god doesn't even have the courtesy of doing this for us non-believers?  Don't give me that crap that you have to believe in him or else you don't deserve it.  That's kind of like saying a killer could murder my fiance, and because he plead insanity and claimed to not believe in me, the victim's significant other, I don't have to forgive him because he doesn't "believe in me".  Sorry, but that is the dumbest shit ever.)

5. Have you lived your life and seen how much evidence there is against god, only to lose faith in his existence?  Tough shit, looks like your going to hell.  And Mr. ILoveYouUnconditionally won't do a damn thing to stop your ass from sizzling on the George Foreman grill that satan has prepared for you.

That sounds like consistent to me magicmiles - consistent with the demented and insane mind of a freak.  He creates something claiming to love it oh so much, then allows that creation to burn because he's awesome at hiding himself. That is quite inconsistent with any definition of love that I've read.  Even your own parents wouldn't play such a disgusting game with your life, much less your eternal afterlife if they had the power.  If I had a kid, I wouldn't ever allow him to burn because he didn't know me.  I also wouldn't have the kid if I knew fore-well that I couldn't love him enough to stop his ass from burning. 

The god the bible describes is a twisted creature if he has the power to do the right thing, yet would rather play this fucked-up little game for nothing more than his own pleasure.  It is enough to make me sick.  If that is love to you, then I pity you because my significant other is doing a hell of a better job than your so-called cosmic king in the sky.


Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #527 on: March 12, 2012, 10:23:03 PM »

No need to know our hearts. They just pump blood. Our thoughts? Those are pretty important. Work on knowing them.

Working on it, oh ye of Montana based construction jobs with 'possibly' more kids than he knows of

Good thing I haven't mentioned my love of soap operas and knitting.
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #528 on: March 12, 2012, 10:28:26 PM »
I reckon
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #529 on: March 12, 2012, 10:32:33 PM »
Tell me if I'm wrong magicmiles, but the general impression I get is that you think it is pretty awesome that your friend could read a book and instantly change beliefs.  To me that is not really impressive in any way. What it says to me is that your friend is extremely easy to persuade and is quite gullible.  He has performed the wonderful feat of falling for not one, but two of the world's prominent belief systems in his life thus far!  Hey, get him into the Church of Scientology for a E-meter reading and maybe he will come out believing in Xenu too.  Worth a shot, right?

Joking aside now, I really disagree with you here.
I think you're missing my point, OC.

The lack of coercion and preaching I noted was a lack of any external preaching. No skilful, manipulative oration and emotional beseeching. Certainly the bible preaches a very clear and consistent message - part of it's uniqueness, given it was written by many people over many years.

The bible is anything but consistent.  Head on over to the Biblical contradictions section and look how many inconsistencies have been pointed out.  I do not need to sit here and repeat them all, but I will mention one.  Actually, this is the biggest one of them all in my opinion, and sadly it is essentially the crux of the whole idea of Christianity:

1. You have a god who claims to love us more than anything and who would do anything for us as long as we ask in his son's name.

2. This god then creates (making us this way, and knowing we will fail) mankind and sets us on a path that leads to destruction.

3. God then allows this failure to happen (and he knew it would), and tells us that we now have to bear all the pain and suffering of this world.

4. Now, he will actually keep his word from before and love/forgive us...but only if we bow to him and believe in his son. 
(side note: I find it funny how all this talk about forgiving is so prominent in the bible, yet god doesn't even have the courtesy of doing this for us non-believers?  Don't give me that crap that you have to believe in him or else you don't deserve it.  That's kind of like saying a killer could murder my fiance, and because he plead insanity and claimed to not believe in me, the victim's significant other, I don't have to forgive him because he doesn't "believe in me".  Sorry, but that is the dumbest shit ever.)

5. Have you lived your life and seen how much evidence there is against god, only to lose faith in his existence?  Tough shit, looks like your going to hell.  And Mr. ILoveYouUnconditionally won't do a damn thing to stop your ass from sizzling on the George Foreman grill that satan has prepared for you.

That sounds like consistent to me magicmiles - consistent with the demented and insane mind of a freak.  He creates something claiming to love it oh so much, then allows that creation to burn because he's awesome at hiding himself. That is quite inconsistent with any definition of love that I've read.  Even your own parents wouldn't play such a disgusting game with your life, much less your eternal afterlife if they had the power.  If I had a kid, I wouldn't ever allow him to burn because he didn't know me.  I also wouldn't have the kid if I knew fore-well that I couldn't love him enough to stop his ass from burning. 

The god the bible describes is a twisted creature if he has the power to do the right thing, yet would rather play this fucked-up little game for nothing more than his own pleasure.  It is enough to make me sick.  If that is love to you, then I pity you because my significant other is doing a hell of a better job than your so-called cosmic king in the sky.

I;m assuming you have heard Christians respond to your grievances against God before, and I don't have time anyway.
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #530 on: March 12, 2012, 10:35:46 PM »
I;m assuming you have heard Christians respond to your grievances against God before, and I don't have time anyway.

What?! You don't have time to make a 100 page thread that goes nowhere? I can hardly believe it.
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Offline voodoo child

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #531 on: March 12, 2012, 10:42:48 PM »
I;m assuming you have heard Christians respond to your grievances against God before, and I don't have time anyway.

What?! You don't have time to make a 100 page thread that goes nowhere? I can hardly believe it.

 :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline OnlyClarity

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #532 on: March 12, 2012, 11:48:00 PM »
I;m assuming you have heard Christians respond to your grievances against God before, and I don't have time anyway.

My grievances aren't against god.  They are against men for creating and believing in god.

Your response suggests that you don't understand the point of discussion.  If people never debated anything, we'd all be about as intelligent as tadpoles.  You must see how ridiculous you look on a discussion forum when you claim that you don't have time to discuss this with us.  If you want me to just stand by while millions of human beings worship an invisible sky man for absolutely no reason other than a book that tells them to, you will be disappointed.  I am discussing this because it is counterproductive for mankind to follow cults and take life advice from a 2000 year old book that also advocates such ideas as slavery, female oppression, and homophobia.

It deeply saddens me that you will spend time talking to yourself (oops god) with your hands pressed together, but when it comes to talking to a person who genuinely wants to rid you of delusional beliefs you suddenly "don't have time anyway."  If you had any respect for yourself or others, you'd try to open your eyes to real evidence and not blindly follow the guidebook to oppression that is the Christian bible.

Either way you decide, I sincerely hope the best for you,
-Clarity

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #533 on: March 13, 2012, 12:50:09 AM »
I;m assuming you have heard Christians respond to your grievances against God before, and I don't have time anyway.

My grievances aren't against god.  They are against men for creating and believing in god.

Your response suggests that you don't understand the point of discussion.  If people never debated anything, we'd all be about as intelligent as tadpoles.  You must see how ridiculous you look on a discussion forum when you claim that you don't have time to discuss this with us.  If you want me to just stand by while millions of human beings worship an invisible sky man for absolutely no reason other than a book that tells them to, you will be disappointed.  I am discussing this because it is counterproductive for mankind to follow cults and take life advice from a 2000 year old book that also advocates such ideas as slavery, female oppression, and homophobia.

It deeply saddens me that you will spend time talking to yourself (oops god) with your hands pressed together, but when it comes to talking to a person who genuinely wants to rid you of delusional beliefs you suddenly "don't have time anyway."  If you had any respect for yourself or others, you'd try to open your eyes to real evidence and not blindly follow the guidebook to oppression that is the Christian bible.

Either way you decide, I sincerely hope the best for you,
-Clarity


Not having time to respond to your post thoroughly means I have other priorities, not that I'm anti-discussion. Please don't label someone so quickly.
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Offline OnlyClarity

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #534 on: March 13, 2012, 08:18:29 AM »
Not having time to respond to your post thoroughly means I have other priorities, not that I'm anti-discussion. Please don't label someone so quickly.

By all means magicmile, respond whenever you have the time.  I wasn't trying to label you.  The language that you used gave me the feeling that you would not be responding ever.  Might I kindly suggest in the future that you are a bit more clear when your intention is to respond to someone, but just not at the moment. 

For example:  "OnlyClarity, I am a bit busy with other priorities at the moment, but I fully intend to respond to you when I have more time."

This of course is just my suggestion to you.  I am confident that doing something to this effect will yield better results in the future.  Thank you for your commitment to this discussion, and I look forward to hearing your future replies.  Sorry about the miscommunication.

Sincerely,
-Clarity

Offline velkyn

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #535 on: March 13, 2012, 10:06:18 AM »
I think you're missing my point, OC.

The lack of coercion and preaching I noted was a lack of any external preaching. No skilful, manipulative oration and emotional beseeching. Certainly the bible preaches a very clear and consistent message - part of it's uniqueness, given it was written by many people over many years. My point is that my friend was convinced that what he was reading was true, and as Brakeman stated, that is pretty amazing given he had been brought up as a Hindu and was in fact born into a family of priests.

For a book of lies or fantasy written so long ago ( by men separated by hundreds of years and who didn't know each other ) to do that...I for one have never given the notion any serious credence.

that's quite a lie right there.  The bible does not preach a clear or consistent message, considering the number of sects who totally disagree with each other.  I find it so amusing when Christains have to intentionally ignore reality to say this nonsense.  You dodged Add H's question quite nicely there.  What does this supposed converted Hindu now believe?  Which version of Chrsitianity has he supposedly accepted? 

Many people read things that they are convinced are true.  We have converts to all sorts of religions/cults, so does that mean that all of these people are finding the "truth"?  This is what you are claiming. 
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #536 on: March 13, 2012, 11:46:47 AM »
... he had been brought up as a Hindu and was in fact born into a family of priests.

Do you know the bizarre shit they believe?  Holy macaroni!  Monkey gods and gods with elephant heads.  The bible looks like non-fiction next to hinduism. 

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline OnlyClarity

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #537 on: March 13, 2012, 01:14:33 PM »
But does it really look like non-fiction Screwtape....When you compare it against reality?  It looks pretty ridiculous then doesn't it?  It's all about contrast.  I don't know what is more ridiculous: a monkey god or a talking snake, virgin birth, and some quack that supposedly turned a couple breads and fishes into thousands of breads and fishes.

Ah heck, lets go with the monkey god just to play devil's advocate.  ;)

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #538 on: March 13, 2012, 03:02:53 PM »
The bible is not consistent. A recipe for chocolate cake is consistent. Anyone who follows the recipe using the same kind of ingredients, size of pan, etc, will get a similar result--something that looks, smells and tastes like chocolate cake.

Consistency means that anyone who reads it gets the same message. If there are multiple interpretations, people are not all getting the same message. Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Copts, Mormons and Lutherans all claim to have the right interpretation. Which group is correct? How can you tell?

With the "recipes" in the bible, one person produces fruit cake, someone else makes lemon meringue pie, someone else comes up with peanut butter cookies and yet another person makes broccoli-corn-cheese casserole. And on and on.

Every person can point out how, if you read it the way they do, you can get the dish they prepared. The book is consistent, but all the others are misinterpreting the recipe, because there is obviously only one correct way to read it! Then along comes some goofball who says that actually the book is consistent, because fruit cake and broccoli casserole are really the same thing.... &)

Because the book is consistent, regardless of the different results.

If a cookbook delivered results as screwy as that, it would never survive a second printing.
When all of Cinderella's finery changed back at midnight, why didn't the shoes disappear? What's up with that?

Offline OnlyClarity

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #539 on: March 14, 2012, 12:21:56 AM »
Well actually it would nogods... as long as it was a Christian cookbook that included chrispy christ cookies and jammin' jesus jello.  How could you resist such a succulent bunch of goodies like that?  :laugh:

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #540 on: March 14, 2012, 01:28:32 AM »
Awesome testimony about your friend...!!!!

Thank you for posting it magicmiles.

Regards,
ILOVEYOU

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #541 on: March 14, 2012, 01:57:13 AM »
You're most welcome.
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Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #542 on: March 14, 2012, 02:10:39 AM »
Edit

Look OnlyClarity, I don't know you. I don't know who you are or nothing about you except your attitude here. You've said you've grown up in a Christian family and have been a Christian your entire life until just recently. Now you have given up your belief for reasons IDK.

You haven't gotten the results that you expected, so "obviously", everyone else must be wrong and delusional. Or even gullible.

You seem to think that I have been "churched". Brought up in Sunday school, the whole bit....?

Like I have been brainwashed to believe, eh...? Or that I am to stupid to recognize the difference between fact and fiction, eh..?

Between fairy-tales and reality...?

I get it..... I am just a stupid idiot......

 
(Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, twas grace my fears relieved.)

For years, I've heard this song Amazing grace but this line always slipped by un-noticed. I think sometimes what emotion the person went through to write these lyrics. These are pretty strong lyrics.

I understand a little bit better now why He may have wrote it and "twas grace my fears relieved" sometimes brings tears to my eyes.

I hope you find what it is you are looking for. Even if it was said that I was delusional, I would rather keep my faith in Jesus Christ, than go a day without it. He is my best friend and more. And even though I cannot see Him physically, I try and see Him by faith.

I hope you have a wonderful life.

Regards,
ILOVEYOU








Offline naemhni

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #543 on: March 14, 2012, 05:37:07 AM »
I hope you find what it is you are looking for.

I've lost count of how many times I've heard believers say this to atheists.  (We get it almost as much as we get Pascal's Wager.)  Why do you assume that an atheist is looking for anything?

Actually, let me try a little reversal: you've made a number of posts here, now, obviously, defending your faith.  How would you feel at this point if one of the resident atheists said, "I hope you find what it is you are looking for"?
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #544 on: March 14, 2012, 08:01:09 AM »
Quote
Or that I am to stupid to recognize the difference between fact and fiction, eh..?

Between fairy-tales and reality...?


It's times like this, when someone actually gets it, that make it all worthwhile.

It's not necessarily that these things occur because you're "to" stupid, there are many factors involved.

You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #545 on: March 14, 2012, 08:38:42 AM »
Quote
(Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, twas grace my fears relieved.)
Ahh the words of a slave boat captain. How fitting!
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Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #546 on: March 14, 2012, 10:46:20 AM »
Christianity teaches that everyone inherits sin and death.

So everyone is guilty before they exist, for something that they cannot rationally be responsible for.

If that is the case, then what meaning do guilt and responsibility have that are not rendered completely meaningless?

Quote
What Christ does is free us from the bondage of our sins.

An omnipotent and omniscient being can't just snap his fingers?

How can someone else take our imagined guilt and responsibility from us, for something we are guilty of doing before we even existed?

Am I still condemned of my sins if I don't believe or don't know jesus?
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Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #547 on: March 14, 2012, 10:49:51 AM »
God did not have Jesus killed. Jesus gave up his own life.

What did jesus sacrifice that jesus would not still possess?

Why does an omnipotent and omniscient being have to send itself to sacrifice itself to itself?

How can it be called a sacrifice when it comes back to life, losing nothing?

Quote
Everyone would simply claim the evidence had been

Fallacy, appeal to false consequences.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences

Appeal to consequences, also known as argumentum ad consequentiam (Latin for "argument to the consequences"), is an argument that concludes a premise (typically a belief) to be either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences.

Why are the world saving miracle claims of the only true religion on earth occur in the nebulous shadows of a history so vague its virtually non-existent?
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Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #548 on: March 14, 2012, 10:50:52 AM »
The real world evidence that makes it stand out is the witness of the Bible.

All religions can make the same blank mindless appeal.

Why should I care that your religion says X and another religion says Y?
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Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #549 on: March 14, 2012, 10:51:51 AM »
Authoritative. I wouldn't dispute your books' authenticity, but I might dispute their authority.

And you're make believe is anymore authoritative over other make believe because?
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Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #550 on: March 14, 2012, 10:53:44 AM »
No that is not the case. Truth is objective. The Bible claims to be the word of God. If you choose not to accept it at face value then no matter how many arguments I would give, you have already made your choice.

If the bible were objectively true, you would be able to make an objective case for your claims.  Accepting something at face value is NOT objective, why would you expect us to do something that is in contradiction to objectivity, while claiming objectivity for your own position?
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