Author Topic: Speaking in GoDs Language  (Read 20102 times)

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Offline Brakeman

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #232 on: February 21, 2012, 07:31:54 PM »
He spoke to you without saying a word.. now really..  So how could other christians write god dictated scripture with the same type of conversations that you have with god?

Communication is the exchange of information, if you already have the information and there is no exchange.. it is NOT communication.  That's like calling your friend on the phone, but he doesn't speak, while you read letters written by someone else that claims that your friend would have said these words if he was speaking.

According to Act's 19, the christians prayed, but had no communication with the holy spirit. They may have had warm fuzzy feelings..it doesn't say.. but I suspect they did. You claim a conversation that is purely laughable if you tried to put it in another context. You claim god talked to you, but not in words. Don't you think in words? Even if he sent telepathic voiceless communication with you it would still need it to be in words to be significant. You can't follow a god on feelings of awe and hot and cold. You have to have a true message, and if there is communication it has to be two way. Even a Ouija board uses spelling. How useless would a Ouija board be without any words? It would just be a person pushing a puck around on a piece of cardboard.  Did Moses sense god's instructions by the warm fuzzy feeling he got when he walked in the direction of Canaan?

Did you read what He said and what they said and when this happened...?

Paul asked them if they received the Holy Spirit when they first "believed".

They said no. They received Johns' baptism. Which was a baptism of repentance. John was preaching and baptizing for repetance. So if they were baptized by John. Jesus was not yet finished. And John was murdered before Jesus' death and resurrection.

Interesting enough. Read about when Philip baptized the Eunuch.

Also Acts 16 31:34

That's your response to the points that god isn't talking to you?

OK lets look at the verse..
Acts 8:26-40

New International Version (NIV)
Philip and the Ethiopian
 26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” 27 So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian[a] eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. 29 The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”

 30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.

 31 “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

 32 This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading:

   “He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
   and as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
   so he did not open his mouth.
33 In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
   Who can speak of his descendants?
   For his life was taken from the earth.”

 34 The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

 36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”  38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.


Here an angel, using an actual voice. spoke actual words to Philip - Is this not unlike you?
The Eunuch just followed along, nothing is said about the spirit talking to him. Maybe he just felt all warm and fuzzy and emotional.
Why doesn't god speak to you in clear human words to give you an actual voiced message like he did to Phillip here?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:34:07 PM by Brakeman »
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Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #233 on: February 21, 2012, 07:37:29 PM »
ILY:

Let's recap.
I showed you that I knew YOU WERE REFERRING TO  scripture, Hebrew 12:2.
This scripture was directed to believers. You were directing it to unbelievers.

So I pointed you to James John 6:44 which clearly says no one comes to Jesus unless God draws them. Then I showed you how no one comes to God unless God wrote it in His book.

I also told you that salvation is immoral and that choosing salvation over damnation is coersion.

Then I showed you how the bible is contradictory when speaking of the attributes of God.

My point about baptism was that it is not just to show others- it is to receive the Holy Spirit. Isn't this how one is able to discern the word of God and to interpret scripture? 

Then I asked you what the language of God is. How is it that you think you understand the difference between your own thoughts and the thoughts put in your head by God or Satan or Papa Smurf?



 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 08:12:34 PM by monkeymind »
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline violatedsmurf80

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #234 on: February 21, 2012, 07:44:41 PM »
Why is it  that people are always making excuses for an all knowing GoD, the excuse “it is his will” is just a way of saying it is out of my scope of knowledge and I am to lazy to figure it out or I am just to lazy. Even the excuse “I don’t know” is along those lines with a GoD who is suppose to help you though life.

I believe that Nephthys helped Isis find all the body parts of Osiris and ask Ra to bring him back alive for just one day, this is true because the Book of the dead told me so. 
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”--- Sinclair Lewis

I believe there is something out there watching over us. Unfortunately, it's the government.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #235 on: February 21, 2012, 08:27:16 PM »
ILY:
If you are still trying to speak with God, don't count on it. His word is not very truthful about Gods communications. For instance:

God tells Moses, I'll let you look at my ass:
“And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts.”
(Ex. 33:23)
But God changed His mind and spoke to Moses face to face.
“And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his
friend.” (Ex. 33:11)

Moses confirms this:
”For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”
(Gen. 32:30)

But yet:
”No man hath seen God at any time.” (John 1:18)
”And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man
see me and live.” (Ex. 33:20)

And again:
”Whom no man hath seen nor can see.” (1 Tim. 6:16)

Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #236 on: February 21, 2012, 08:40:35 PM »
ILY:

And don't bother asking for anything because even though you pray night and day, you will never believe enough to receive any answers other than yes, no or wait. Of course you can receive these kinds of answers from a rock or a Jug of Milk without believing anything.

But God's word says:

Ask and it will be given to you…Matthew 7:7-8 (NASB)

Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.  Matthew 18:19-20 (NASB)

 “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”  Matthew 21:21-22 (NASB)

Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.  Mark 11:24-25 (NASB)

And I tell you, ask and you will receive; Luke 11:9-13 (NASB)

And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.  John 14:13-14 (NASB)

… ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.  John 15:7 (NASB)

… whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.  John 15:16 (NASB)

… ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.  John 16:23-24 (NASB)

It ain't happenin' baby! God's word is not true. Stop making excuses for  the bible, for  God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost. They are not real, and all the believing and faith and holy rolling or speaking in tongues won't change a thing.
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline Brakeman

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #237 on: February 21, 2012, 09:30:14 PM »
You're on a roll Monkey! +1
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #238 on: February 21, 2012, 09:36:53 PM »
notice how ILY ignores relevant posts,but will reply to trivial issues???
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Offline sun_king

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #239 on: February 21, 2012, 09:45:53 PM »
notice how ILY ignores relevant posts,but will reply to trivial issues???

Ask and he shalt run away?

Offline Alzael

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #240 on: February 21, 2012, 09:59:37 PM »
I would like to point out that you, ILY, have still failed utterly to show even the slightest bit of evidence for anything. Nor have you provided anything that distinguishes your ideas from a fantasy. All you have done is mindlessly parrot scripture.

I would point out that this, again, destroys your previous claims of wanting to know the truth or to understand anything. If you really had any actual interest in this you could simply provide evidence instead of bible quotes. Instead the bible quotes are the only weapon in your arsenal and you need to fall back on ludicrous statements like evidence being subjective in order to justify your own twisted fantasy world to yourself. Unfortunately this is not truth, nor will it gain you understanding of anything.

So the question still remains, where is your actual evidence for any of this? If you can provide it, then go ahead. If not, then admit it and stop trying to talk about truth and understanding, because you don't have it. All you have are your own lies.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #241 on: February 21, 2012, 10:04:24 PM »
notice how ILY ignores relevant posts,but will reply to trivial issues???

And this is different from every other theist how?
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #242 on: February 21, 2012, 10:26:07 PM »
Come on. You are asking him to be honest.

His religion requires that he lie for Jesus. Jesus is real, even if the Bible is a load of crap.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline sun_king

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #243 on: February 21, 2012, 10:37:26 PM »
I am quite new here, so I cannot say much about other theists. For ILY, I have the following observations:

- Most questions remain unanswered or answers are vague.
- The answers given are something to the tune of "with god, everything is possible"
- All answers require the asker to believe first and then understand (definitely not the other way around)
- Changes statements as and when required.

These are also the characteristics of the Biblical god. Are we graced with divine presence?

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #244 on: February 21, 2012, 11:00:57 PM »
So... is this really entertaining to you guys...? To set out and destroy the hope and faith of others...? Is it because the problem lies within yourselves...? So you get together and mock and ridicule the people of faith. Does it make you feel good or feel like more of a man or woman...? Do you feel empowered...?

I have been exposed to the same treatment as most of you have but you don't hear me slandering them. It actually saddens me at times and I still love them with all of my heart as my friends. I have treated every single one of you with respect, even though you attack my faith and curse My GOD. I have extended my hand out to you in faith but you refuse to listen with your heart.

What is it that I did that you feel you have to hurt me with your words...?




Offline Historicity

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #245 on: February 21, 2012, 11:22:24 PM »
^^^Argumentum ad misericordium.

Which means this situation is so pitiful we must just stop thinking.



Offline Quesi

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #246 on: February 21, 2012, 11:28:05 PM »
ILY, I cannot claim to have read every post in this thread, but I don't think that anyone is cursing your God.  I think that most people here simply do not believe that your God exists, and that if he did exist, the inconsistent portrayal of him in the scriptures does not create the image of a really benevolent being worthy of worship. 

I feel genuinely sorry that you have been hurt by the words written in this discussion.  I am, right now, listening with my heart.  I hear a good person, who is brave to come here to this forum, and who has not found what he hoped to find.  My heart will help me feel empathy for you, the complex human being that you are.  But my heart will not lead me to believe in your God. 

I do not think you will find converts here, but although I am new to this forum, I think that I can say that you are welcome to keep trying.

But perhaps that love in your heart that you want to share could be better put to use by making soup for the homeless in a shelter, by volunteering to work with senior citizens who are alone, by working to build a playground in a low income neighborhood.   

Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #247 on: February 21, 2012, 11:32:42 PM »
Why are you so insecure about your religious beliefs that you interpret questions and analytical discussion as mockery?

"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #248 on: February 21, 2012, 11:40:10 PM »
I guess I'll play somewhat of a bad cop to Quesi's good cop...

So... is this really entertaining to you guys...? To set out and destroy the hope and faith of others...?

Destroying the notion that faith (belief in the absence of evidence) is a virtue should be the goal of EVERY human being.  To stick to faith as a reason for believing something so ridiculous as the Christian God should be met with a tidal wave of ridicule.  I mean seriously... imagine I told you that I believed in Thor and the sum total of my evidence is that some old book said it was good to have faith in Thor.  While you may not think much of that, imagine I was trying to have YOUR children taught in schools that Thor created the world with his mighty hammer, and that if YOU didn't believe in Thor, that you were just a mean old atheist who just wants to destroy other people's faith in Thor.  At first, it's kinda cute, but after a while, you just want to tear the whole thing down piece by piece. 

The entertaining part comes from knowing that there are dozens of atheists on this website who've been coming here for quite a while now, and probably every single one of them knew an "I'm a persecuted Christian" post like this was coming from you.  Though I know none of them in real life, I picture people like AP, velkyn, Historicity, Brakeman, Omen and Monkeys all sitting in front of their computer screens, shaking their collective heads in unison.  And I sometimes smile about it because I'm shaking my head too.   

Is it because the problem lies within yourselves...?

Let's be clear again here.  God is not real.  That isn't our problem is it?  It's yours.  We're not the ones that believe it.  You are.

So you get together and mock and ridicule the people of faith. Does it make you feel good or feel like more of a man or woman...? Do you feel empowered...?

In my personal opinion (as I do not speak for all atheists), things as foolish as biblical Christianity deserve open mockery.  Perhaps that makes me an ass, but that's just me.  I'm sorry.  I'm just being honest. Though I have not really mocked you all that much myself,  I mock religion in much the same way I mock people who still believe the earth is flat, and who believe there was no holocaust.  With all due respect, sometimes ridicule is the only way to reach people who are as severely brainwashed as you are.  Don't take that as mean.  Take it as me being concerned that you are just not mentally fit to live in the modern era. 

I have been exposed to the same treatment as most of you have but you don't hear me slandering them. It actually saddens me at times and I still love them with all of my heart as my friends. I have treated every single one of you with respect, even though you attack my faith and curse My GOD. I have extended my hand out to you in faith but you refuse to listen with your heart.

My heart pumps blood.  I told you before, I'm in the medical profession.  And I have no idea what treatment you are talking about.  If you mean that we've been bashed horribly by Christians in the past, then yeah, maybe.  But as a grown up, I just blow that off.  You have to have a thicker skin if you are going to come to a site like this. 

Do you understand, ILY, that it really COULD be you that's wrong here?  Does that ever enter your mind?  Even when you see the well thought out, reasonable responses to your posts... you know, the ones you tend to ignore or move past because they're too hard to argue against?

Do you know that there are literally thousands upon thousands of religions out there, and all the people who practice them have a similar level of faith in their religion as you do in yours?  So what's more likely... that YOU have stumbled on the right one and everyone else is wrong, or that you ALL suffer from the same level of delusion, and none of you have it right.  Given the evidence, (zero) I don't see how you could claim any sort of certainty at all.  You just can't.  It's all in your mind, just like everyone else who believes in a religion.  (except maybe the Egyptians and the sun god.  At least they had something real to look at) 

I reject your hand of faith, because your faith is a lie.  Don't take that personally.  Yours is just one of thousands of faiths that I reject based on the same level of evidence that you provide for yours. 

What is it that I did that you feel you have to hurt me with your words...?

We are providing you with truth, ILY.  Do with it what you wish.  Sometimes the truth is hard.  Dealing with it over a lifetime can be even harder.  Maybe it's time to grow up and realize that. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #249 on: February 21, 2012, 11:47:35 PM »
I think, ILY, that if your answers were a bit more thoughtful and really tried to adress some of the points which have been raised, you would see less of the ridicule and snide comments. But this "conversation" has been going on for pages now with only the vaguest answers from you, basically dismissing every question and criticism with what seems a real fear of actually looking at them. So people can start to get frustrated and, unfortunately, will start to take it out on you.

Maybe you could go back and reread some of the questions, and just pick one to go into in a little more depth. No, we probably won't ever convert each other, but we do like to see theists who are willing to apply just a bit of critical thinking to their beliefs, and understand how it is that we have come to the conclusions that we have.

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #250 on: February 21, 2012, 11:52:48 PM »
I feel genuinely sorry that you have been hurt by the words written in this discussion.  I am, right now, listening with my heart.  I hear a good person, who is brave to come here to this forum, and who has not found what he hoped to find.  My heart will help me feel empathy for you, the complex human being that you are.  But my heart will not lead me to believe in your God. I do not think you will find converts here, but although I am new to this forum, I think that I can say that you are welcome to keep trying.
Thank you for your tone. I am not looking to convert anyone. And I know that I can't make you a believer nor prove to you that GOD exists.
Quote
But perhaps that love in your heart that you want to share could be better put to use by making soup for the homeless in a shelter, by volunteering to work with senior citizens who are alone, by working to build a playground in a low income neighborhood.
I haven't done these specific things but I do help out in other ways that tend to people needs. I do not wear it on my sleeve. People who serve doing those things are very well respected by me.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #251 on: February 21, 2012, 11:53:39 PM »
I have been exposed to the same treatment as most of you have but you don't hear me slandering them. It actually saddens me at times and I still love them with all of my heart as my friends. I have treated every single one of you with respect, even though you attack my faith and curse My GOD. I have extended my hand out to you in faith but you refuse to listen with your heart.

I'm tempted to say this in response...

This is just your opinion.

...Because you have used those exact words to brush aside someone else's carefully written response, effectively refusing to discuss the matter on the table.  This very thread is rife with unanswered questions.

I, for one, do not feel "respected" by your preachy style, and I have no intention of following you down the rabbit hole of "Just believe."  I know firsthand the power of the human imagination to create an "Other" that tells us what we want to or need to hear.  Where you see the divine, I see neuroscience.  Where you see "miracle," I see "anomalous phenomenon which, if properly investigated, could save thousands of lives."  I would rather go through My life without faith, eyes wide open, and perhaps discover something about the world that no one else has seen.

We don't need to be carpet-bombed by scads of scripture, either.  We know the basic tenets of Christianity; I've known them for 47 of My 54 years.  When you say that you're a believer, we get it.

Now let's all take a deep breath and renegotiate the terms of engagement here, or this conversation isn't going anywhere.
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Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #252 on: February 22, 2012, 12:09:16 AM »
I think, ILY, that if your answers were a bit more thoughtful and really tried to adress some of the points which have been raised, you would see less of the ridicule and snide comments.
I have addressed important ones, I feel. If your asking me to prove GOD exists to you, I can't. And I don't know why you are expecting me to prove this to you.

Which one would you like me to respond to and I will do my best to answer...?

Quote
But this "conversation" has been going on for pages now with only the vaguest answers from you, basically dismissing every question and criticism with what seems a real fear of actually looking at them. So people can start to get frustrated and, unfortunately, will start to take it out on you.
No, not a fear at looking at them, just a different approach to understanding them.

Quote
No, we probably won't ever convert each other, but we do like to see theists who are willing to apply just a bit of critical thinking to their beliefs, and understand how it is that we have come to the conclusions that we have.
Really, my intent is not to convert you. GOD doesn't even want to convert you. IMO. I feel as if it is more of a matter of the heart than a conversion of religion.

Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #253 on: February 22, 2012, 12:17:21 AM »
What you "feel" is irrelevant since you possess no means to even know anything you claim and expressly go out of your way to reduce knowledge to meaningless nonsense.  Everytime you claim something new through the fallacy of pleading you are effectively making yourself out to be a dishonest hypocrite and the same questions are begged all over again.

Why do you want to reduce knowledge to nothing, yet don't want to be held accountable when you make claims as if you knew anything?
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Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #254 on: February 22, 2012, 12:34:20 AM »
ILY

I've pretty much stayed out of this conversation because talking to person who can only preach is never fun. But now you're feeling are hurt, even though you haven't displayed a bit of sympathy for the dozen or so people who have tried to show you why they disagree with religion. To you, everything is an attack on your god.You don't see that we don't attack gods (we can't, they don't exist), we attack beliefs. And since most of us self-identify as atheists, and we're all ganged up here on this site, for you to come here as a christian and expect anything other than arguments is naive beyond belief. Except you're a christian, so thinking things through is probably kind of foreign to you. You've been told what to believe, you are doing your duty, and non-followers perplex you. How else could you react?

I asked you pages ago if you thought this was Disneyland because you seemed astonished that we weren't spiritual. Not that there aren't any spiritual atheists, but they are sort of rare. And most of us are not.

Think about the muslim god, or hindu gods. Do you believe in them? And how do you feel about not believing in them?

Well, that's exactly how we feel about not believing in your god.

We see no difference. We don't believe in the god of the zoroastrians, the gods of the dogon, or of the muslims or hindus or jews or christians. And we are quite unhappy with the harm done to this planet and it's various cultures by such religions. People claiming to be christian are burning and otherwise killing children in Africa today because of accusations that those kids are witches. Hindu's maintain the oppressive caste system, even though it is illegal to do so, for religious reasons. Catholic priests are taking advantage of their positions of power and molesting boys. Muslims find it abhorrent that a woman would try to fight off a rapist and if she happens to kill him while she is being raped, she gets stoned to death. Literally. All because of religious beliefs.

You think the other religions are wrong, but you are sure the one you've chosen is correct. You obviously have the right to do that, but many like you not only want that right, but they want also to dictate to me and to others such as yourself that we all follow their religious views, and they don't want to take no for an answer. Rick Santorum is running for president right now in a catholic state of mind, and he thinks all non-catholics, religious or not, are in league with the devil. Now if you're a catholic, no biggie, But if you're not, then the wrong religion is trying to take over the US and you're in almost as much trouble as we atheists are.

Each person born on this planet has different experiences. Many get inculcated into the religion of their region. Others have the luxury of choosing. Some pick the religion of their parents, others choose different denominations or even entirely different religions. And some of us choose not to believe at all. Each of us thinks we are right, that we have chosen wisely and that we are best served by our individual choices. Obviously not all of us are right about whether or not there is a god, because no matter what you or I believe, either there is one (or more)  or there isn't. You may be very adamant about believing that there is, but I assure you I am at least as adamant that there is not.

I see religions as myths. The same type of myth that I was taught about in grade school. The myths of Greek and Roman gods were a common thing to teach in the 50's, and the only problem with that is that when I looked at christianity, I could see plainly that it was a myth as well. As were the stories of all the other religions.

The Romans believed in their gods. The Greeks in theirs. And you in yours. And we atheists, here at an atheist site, dismiss each and every one. Right now, we especially reject yours, because you are trying to ram your version down our throats with the exact same zealotry that previous believers, be they some variation on the christian theme, or muslims, or mormon or whatever, have tried to do before. You are in shock about our attitudes and don't seem to realize that we have heard all this before, and we all know we'll here it again. We have no reason to convert just because we feel sorry for you, and we have no reason to think what you are aging is true, no matter how convinced you are that it is.

We are busy trying to stave off the many negative effects of religion on civilization. You want to immerse us in the very beliefs we find harmful. Of course we're going to disagree.

You can either accept that there is a huge frickin' divide between your view of the universe and ours, or you can act all hurt and stuff. Accepting the divide and having a discussion with us, one that is somewhat devoid of scripture quotes, might be sort of fun. One that has you preaching, and us saying stop it, and you feeling all hurt is useless.

You've been around since the first page of this thread, and I have been astounded that the others have treated with minimal hostility. You are hurt, but only because you came up with high expectations about how we would react to your god stories. It is your expectations that have caused your disappointment more than our lack of a positive response to your version of the god story. Take some responsibility for that and try again, with the understanding that we might be able to teach each other a thing or two about why we hold specific beliefs. Do that with no expectation that you're going to sway even one person in  your direction and perhaps all of us can learn. And you can be an ambassador for your beliefs. Right now you sound more like a blind follower, and that never impresses us.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #255 on: February 22, 2012, 12:36:27 AM »
I, for one, do not feel "respected" by your preachy style, and I have no intention of following you down the rabbit hole of "Just believe."
What preachy style...? I didn't even bring scripture up until asked by another forum member. I still haven't copied and pasted one scripture. 

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I know firsthand the power of the human imagination to create an "Other" that tells us what we want to or need to hear.  Where you see the divine, I see neuroscience.  Where you see "miracle," I see "anomalous phenomenon which, if properly investigated, could save thousands of lives."
 
And there is probably a reason for that and I wish you success for the common good of all man. But again, I have stated that I could tell you until I am blue in the face but that will never change anything because I can not change you nor make you a believer. Only GOD can I feel. I also understand your mindset - evidence first, then belief vs. believe first, then evidence. This seems logical. But it does not seem logical to me to use the same method of understanding when it comes to understanding GOD who is "supposedly" not a created thing and is above all creation.

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I would rather go through My life without faith, eyes wide open, and perhaps discover something about the world that no one else has seen.
That takes faith.

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We don't need to be carpet-bombed by scads of scripture, either.  We know the basic tenets of Christianity; I've known them for 47 of My 54 years.  When you say that you're a believer, we get it.
I have purposely gone out of my way with use of direct copy and paste scripture. Not that I don't believe but because forcing scripture down a persons throat doesn't do any good.

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Now let's all take a deep breath and renegotiate the terms of engagement here, or this conversation isn't going anywhere.
OK


Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #256 on: February 22, 2012, 12:47:55 AM »
You just did it again, you can't claim to know or to understand anything without first elaborating on how you can know anything.  Doing so just begs the same question and makes you a dishonest hypocrite.

 Why do you want to reduce knowledge to nothing, yet don't want to be held accountable when you make claims as if you knew anything?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #257 on: February 22, 2012, 12:51:42 AM »
And because you keep ignoring it:

 Its a situation that renders knowledge meaningless, one cannot separate the truth of your claims from its falsehood. One cannot separate the existence of your god claim from its non-existence, precisely because you argue for it in such a way to render the ability to know anything meaningless.

Why are you not capable of arguing or defending your god claim through any other means?

Could I not argue for anything and everything, using the solipsistic appeals you've created?

Why would you expect us to take you seriously in any capacity or as if you were not mentally ill to some degree?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #258 on: February 22, 2012, 12:53:04 AM »
I think the most important question, which has been raised time and again, is that of the possibility of your being mistaken in your beliefs.

Even if your feelings of communion with god are so strong that it's hard for you to imagine that you might be deluded or mistaken, it just seems important to be able to look at reality clearly and critically, and recognize that for every reason you feel you have that compels you to believe, there are perfectly good explanations for all of them which do not necessitate the existence of a deity.

As has been pointed out to you many times, the mind is capable of all sorts of trickery and delusion, and also, those of other faiths experience exactly the same types of feelings in response to their chosen deities.

If you can look at these facts with an open mind, and still feel that you must follow your heart, then fine. I don't think most of us would insist on robbing you of it, but at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that while you choose to believe, there's no way for you to absolutely know it's not a trick of the mind.

Most atheists are willing to concede that there is no way to know, 100%, that no deity of any description exists. No good enough evidence has ever surfaced to make it a possibility worth considering, but most would leave themselves open to changing their minds if any actual evidence ever DID come to light.

All we really ask is the same concession from theists...The admission that you cannot KNOW that what seems so strong in your mind is hard fact.

Your last comment, I find a bit confusing:

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Really, my intent is not to convert you. GOD doesn't even want to convert you. IMO. I feel as if it is more of a matter of the heart than a conversion of religion.

This, again, seems one of those really vague non-answers. I can accept that you are not necessarily trying to convert us, but what of this God you worship? If he is real, does he not care? What DOES he want? I get that you think it is not "religion" as in some formalized ritual, but rather the warm fuzzies, but what is your view of what God wants from us? Are we damned, in your understanding, if we do not follow Jesus? We really have no clear idea of what it is that you really believe, and being a bit more explicit in your answers would help us get a handle on where you are coming from at least.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #259 on: February 22, 2012, 12:53:41 AM »
So... is this really entertaining to you guys...? To set out and destroy the hope and faith of others...? Is it because the problem lies within yourselves...? So you get together and mock and ridicule the people of faith. Does it make you feel good or feel like more of a man or woman...? Do you feel empowered...?

I have been exposed to the same treatment as most of you have but you don't hear me slandering them. It actually saddens me at times and I still love them with all of my heart as my friends. I have treated every single one of you with respect, even though you attack my faith and curse My GOD. I have extended my hand out to you in faith but you refuse to listen with your heart.

What is it that I did that you feel you have to hurt me with your words...?

As you say you are married to an aboriginal.....who ,like me would love it if our stories of creation,creatures,monsters and all thing if they were true.....are they? as we tell the stories,legends,histories,like a Christian they become true for a time.....only to disappear as we come back to the real world. You expect your wife and kids to give up the stories and history,but you fail to follow why?
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #260 on: February 22, 2012, 01:06:57 AM »
I, for one, do not feel "respected" by your preachy style, and I have no intention of following you down the rabbit hole of "Just believe."
What preachy style...? I didn't even bring scripture up until asked by another forum member. I still haven't copied and pasted one scripture. 

When you say that Jesus came for us, in love, to save us, I think you crossed the preacher line by 1km. (As no human can save us from a fiction.) And don't say Jesus was not human, or you will cross the line again.

So... is this really entertaining to you guys...? To set out and destroy the hope and faith of others...? Is it because the problem lies within yourselves...? So you get together and mock and ridicule the people of faith. Does it make you feel good or feel like more of a man or woman...? Do you feel empowered...?

Just dishonest emotional manipulation. You know full well what this part of the forum is for.

. If your asking me to prove GOD exists to you, I can't. And I don't know why you are expecting me to prove this to you.

Because you are acting like you can. If the above is an admission that there is nothing behind your preaching, then you should stop preaching.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.