Hebrews 12:2 speaks directly to the central doctrine of Christian faith-salvation. In this scripture we are to see how Christ endured the cross (for our salvation) and that alone should draw us to God. I have a big issue with the immorality of this salvation thing to begin with. It is not moral that anyone should pay for my transgressions, for one thing. Put that aside for a moment though and consider this:
Accept Christ or eternal damnation, how is that a choice? Where is the free will in that?
It is not, it is coercion.
The Bible says, God saw you before you were born and predestined everything that you will ever do.
Because He saw it, and wrote in His book each day of your life---it will be! If He made you, and He knows what you were and are going to do, you do not have a choice. You will simply do what God predestined you to do.
If this is the case, that you were predestined to conform to the likeness of His son, how is it a choice? And if God did not foresee that you would ‘choose’ to love Christ, then He is not omniscient.
Likewise, if a man is wicked, then God surely made him that way.
The wicked do not have a choice, if God already made everything for its own purpose, the outcome is fixed. And nothing man can do will change that.
Finally, if God foresees everything except where man’s ‘free will’ is involved, then He is not all knowing or all powerful because He can not respond to or act upon something that He does not know.
The Bible clearly speaks against free will and for predestination.
Clearly, we are not free to choose Christ.
I think Jesus' life was every bit as important as His crucifixion.
See... you read this without understanding. But don't feel bad about that. Seriously.
Yes this is true. The amazing things are what you're not seeing. the more you know and understand GOD the more He will help you to understand.
Way to to just skip over all the scripture from your Holy Book. That was for your edification, not mine. I know the scripture pretty well. I know that by cherry picking scripture just about anything can be said (due to its contradictory nature).
Anyone that says they understand the bible has made it say exactly what THEY want to hear, or what they were taught.
I expected at least a little Matthew Henry commentary on predestination from you.
How about a little effort answering questions?
Try this one on for size:The Attributes of God
From the New American Standard BibleGod is all powerful
Jer 32:27 : 27”Behold, I am the LORD, the (A)God of all flesh; is anything (B)too difficult for Me?”
Matt 19:26 : 26And looking at them Jesus said to them, “(A)With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things:
Prov 15:3 : 3The (A)eyes of the LORD are in every place, Watching the evil and the good.
Ps 139:7-10 : 7(A)Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8(B)If I ascend to heaven, You are there;If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, (C)You are there.
9If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,
10Even there Your hand will (D)lead me, And Your right hand will lay hold of me.
Job 34:22,21 : 22”There is (A)no darkness or deep shadow Where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves.God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24 : 24And they (A)prayed and said, “You, Lord, (B)who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen
Ps. 139:2,3 : 2You (A)know when I sit down and when I rise up; You (B)understand my thought from afar.God is unchangeable
James 1:17 : 17Every good thing given and every perfect gift is (A)from above, coming down from (B)the Father of lights, (C)with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
Mal 3:6 : 6”For I, the LORD, (A)do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Ezek 24:14 : 14”I, the LORD, have spoken; it is (A)coming and I will act I will not relent, and I will not (B)pity and I will not be sorry; (C)according to your ways and according to your deeds I will judge you,” declares the Lord GOD.’”
Num 23:19 : 19”(A)God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; (B)Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15 : 15To declare that (A)the LORD is upright; He is my (B)rock, and there is (C)no unrighteousness in Him.
Gen 18:25 ; 25”Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not (A)the Judge of all the earth deal justly?”
Deut 32:4 : 4”(A)The Rock! His work is perfect, (B)For all His ways are just;
(C)A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.
Rom 2:11 : 11For (A)there is no partiality with God.
Ezek 18:25 : 25”Yet you say, ‘(A)The way of the Lord is not right ‘ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is (B)My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?
BonusAll scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16 : 16(A)All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;Let's do that again with the same bible....
The Attributes of God
From The New American Standard BibleGod is not all powerful
Judges 1:19 : 19Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had (A)iron chariots.God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all things:
Gen 11:5 : 5(A)The LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.
Gen 18:20,21 : 20And the LORD said, “(A)The outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah is indeed great, and their sin is exceedingly grave. 21”I will (A)go down now, and see if they have done entirely according to its outcry, which has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”
Gen 3:8 : 8They heard the sound of (A)the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, (B)and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3 : 3you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is (A)testing you to find out if (B)you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deut 8:2 : 2”(A)You shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has (B)led you in the wilderness these forty years, that He might humble you, (C)testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.
Gen 22:12 : 12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now (A)I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld (B)your son, your only son, from Me.”Changeable
Gen 6:6 : 6(A)The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was (B)grieved in His heart.
Jonah 3:10 10When God saw their deeds, that they (A)turned from their wicked way, then (B)God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it.
1 Sam 2:30,31 : 30”Therefore the LORD God of Israel declares, ‘(A)I did indeed say that your house and the house of your father should walk before Me forever’; but now the LORD declares, ‘Far be it from Me—for (B)those who honor Me I will honor, and those (C)who despise Me will be lightly esteemed.
2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6 ; 1(A)In those days Hezekiah became mortally ill And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him and said to him, “Thus says the LORD, ‘(B)Set your house in order, for you shall die and not live.’” 4Before Isaiah had gone out of the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, 5”Return and say to (A)Hezekiah the leader of My people, ‘Thus says the LORD, the God of your father David, “(B)I have heard your prayer, (C)I have seen your tears; behold, I will heal you. On the third day you shall go up to the house of the LORD. 6”I will add fifteen years to your life, and I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria; and (A)I will defend this city for My own sake and for My servant David’s sake.”’”
Ex 33:1,3,17,14 : 1Then the LORD spoke to Moses, “Depart, go up from here, you and the people whom you have brought up from the land of Egypt, to the land of which (A)I swore to Abraham, (B)Isaac, and (C)Jacob, saying, ‘(D)To your descendants I will give it.’ 3”Go up to a land (A)flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, because you are (B)an obstinate people, and (C)I might destroy you on the way 17The LORD said to Moses, “I will also do this thing of which you have spoken; (A)for you have found favor in My sight and I have known you by name.” 14And He said, “(A)My presence shall go with you, and (B)I will give you rest.”God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25 : 25So he said, “(A)Cursed be Canaan;[a](B)A servant of servants He shall be to his brothers.”
Ex 20:5 : 5”(A)You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a (B)jealous God, (C)visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Rom 9:11-13 : 11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that (A)God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, “(B)THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13Just as it is written, “(C)JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
Matt 13:12 : 12”(A)For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.
Bonus:Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6 : 6But this I say by way of concession, (A)not of command.
1 Cor 7:12 : 12But to the rest (A)I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.
2 Cor 11:17 : 17What I am saying, I am not saying (A)as the Lord would, but as (B)in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting.
The bible clearly states that god is/is not an omnimax God. That God is/is not changeable, is/is not just, is/is not omnipotent, omniscient, or omnipresent.
Then again, the bible claims that it is/is not completely the inspired word of God. The truth is, the bible can easily support any interpretation at all. This explains why there are so many (about 38,000) Christian sects. Of course, each sect will tell you that they have the correct interpretation of scripture because they have a magic decoder ring.