Author Topic: Speaking in GoDs Language  (Read 14133 times)

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Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #203 on: February 21, 2012, 02:50:32 AM »
Hebrews 12:2, how does that work?

and:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44

How does that work?
I'm not sure what it is you are wanting to know here. How does what work?

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #204 on: February 21, 2012, 03:14:06 AM »
ILY:
Hebrews 12:2 speaks directly to the central doctrine of Christian faith-salvation. In this scripture we are to see how Christ endured the cross (for our salvation) and that alone should draw us to God. I have a big issue with the immorality of this salvation thing to begin with. It is not moral that anyone should pay for my transgressions, for one thing. Put that aside for a moment though and consider this:

Accept Christ or eternal damnation, how is that a choice? Where is the free will in that?

In God On Trial, a fictional account of a group of Jews in a Nazi extermination camp, there is a scene where a Jewish man is pleading with a Nazi soldier to not kill his two sons. The soldier says “choose one.” The man answers, “How is that a choice?”  It is not, it is coercion.


Not only that, but scripture is clear that we do not have a choice in accepting God.
The Bible says, God saw you before you were born and predestined everything that you will ever do. 

16Your (A)eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in (B)Your book were all written The (C)days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. Psalm 139:16 (NAS)

Because He saw it, and wrote in His book each day of your life---it will be!  If He made you, and He knows what you were and are going to do, you do not have a choice. You will simply do what God predestined you to do.

28And we know that [a]God causes (A)all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are (B)called according to His purpose.  29For those whom He (C)foreknew, He also (D)predestined to become (E)conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the (F)firstborn among many brethren;  30and these whom He (G)predestined, He also (H)called; and these whom He called, He also (I)justified; and these whom He justified, He also (J)glorified. Romans 8:28-30(NAS)

If this is the case, that you were predestined to conform to the likeness of His son, how is it a choice?  And if God did not foresee that you would ‘choose’ to love Christ, then He is not omniscient.

Likewise, if a man is wicked, then God surely made him that way.  Proverbs 16:4 (NAS) “The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil.” 

The wicked do not have a choice, if God already made everything for its own purpose, the outcome is fixed. And nothing man can do will change that. 13Consider the (A)work of God, For who is (B)able to straighten what He has bent? Ecclesiastes 7:13. (NAS)

Finally, if God foresees everything except where man’s ‘free will’ is involved, then He is not all knowing or all powerful because He can not respond to or act upon something that He does not know.

The Bible clearly speaks against free will and for predestination.  4just as (A)He chose us in Him before (B)the foundation of the world, that we would be (C)holy and blameless before [a]Him (D)In love  5He (E)predestined us to (F)adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, (G)according to the kind intention of His will,  6(H)to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in (I)the Beloved. Ephesians 1:3-6 [NAS]
4But God, being (A)rich in mercy, because of (B)His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were ©dead in our transgressions, made us alive together [a]with Christ ((D)by grace you have been saved),  6and (E)raised us up with Him, and (F)seated us with Him in (G)the heavenly places in (H)Christ Jesus,  7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing (I)riches of His grace in (J)kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.  8For (K)by grace you have been saved (L)through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (M)the gift of God;  9(N)not as a result of works, so that (O)no one may boast.  10For we are His workmanship, (P)created in (Q)Christ Jesus for ®good works, which God (S)prepared beforehand so that we would (T)walk in them.  Ephesians 2:4-10 [NAS]

“10Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad - in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls - she was told “The older will serve the younger”. 13Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated”. 14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion” [Exodus 33:19 NASB]”
 20On the contrary, who are you, (A)O man, who (B)answers back to God? (C)The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? Romans 9:20-21 [NASB]
 9who has (A)saved us and (B)called us with a holy (C)calling, (D)not according to our works, but according to His own (E)purpose and grace which was granted us in (F)Christ Jesus from (G)all eternity, 2 Timothy 1:9 [NASB]

 48When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying (A)the word of the Lord; and as many as (B)had been appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48 [NASB]

Clearly, we are not free to choose Christ.

I think Jesus' life was every bit as important as His crucifixion.
See... you read this without understanding. But don't feel bad about that. Seriously.
 Yes this is true. The amazing things are what you're not seeing. the more you know and understand GOD the more He will help you to understand.



 

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #205 on: February 21, 2012, 03:26:39 AM »
I couldn't help but notice that ILY ignored my point about how she cannot possibly know, or gain, knowledge of god due to her utter lack of even the most evidence.

Evidence is subjective.

We have a bit of a dilemma here.

I didn't expect you to understand. From what you've said, I know that you don't understand.

If you want to explore, study and examine GODS creation. Thats fine.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #206 on: February 21, 2012, 03:28:34 AM »

But you know it is wrong. You know it wrong to harm children. Why do you think GOD would approve...? He doesn't. He doesn't have anything to do with it.


Can we have that in writing from God? If we got it in writing, then we'd have at least one thing written by God, instead of Jake, Luke, Paul, Dave.


Quote
Jesus never took one penny.

The story of Jesus said that he didn't.

Quote
Not one penny for a miracle or to be forgiven.

The story of Jesus said he did miracles, be we know that it was Jake, Dave and Paul, making stuff up to put on Facebook.

Quote
The "religious" people who think that they're religion made them acceptable to GOD but couldn't be further from the truth.

Says Paul. Matt, Dave and Mark say that the law makes you closer to God.

Quote
He never hurt anyone. He corrected (rebuked).

So the story says, but you gotta wonder what he really did to the Romans to be crucified.

Quote
Yet, you know all of these things that are going on within the worlds religions and it has drove you away. Why...? Why is that...?

Because all the evidence is from Jake, Dave, Mohammed, Joe, Phil, ...

Quote
All of you believe in love and you deny Jesus Christ...?

We don't deny Ghandi, because he existed.

Quote
You reject the very one who came to set you free and show you the truth.

We wouldn't reject him if (a) Jewish law made sense (b) he existed apart from Dave's Facebook posts (c) he actually expressed love, but he seems to have mostly gone around telling off Pharisees, promising hellfire, and telling people to give all their money away.

There was one loving thing done in Luke, but it was done by a Samaritan.

Quote
The truth you have desired for so long. He did it for you.

Did what for us? There is a limit to how much I can believe that Paul's Facebook post did something for me.

Quote
What do you really think Jesus would be saying to all of these Churches today...? The ones who put themselves on a pedestal...? When He himself did nothing but go to the poor, the sick, the needy, the "sinners", those hurting, suffering people of the world to show them the truth. A truth that cost Him His life.

Blah blah. An omnipotent man couldn't avoid being captured by a few Romans, and didn't defend himself before Pilate, who was willing to release him.

Quote
A truth The Father knew because He loved you. A truth He knew His Son would die, when He didn't deserve it to bring you the truth on a more personal level in hopes that you will know the truth and His love for you.

Why didn't the father bring us this news by having Jesus stay around long enough to become a historical person? Jesus could have taunted the authorities and the Jews for 100 years, but he instead chose the easier path of ducking out before anyone knew he existed.

Quote
He took the punishment upon Himself.

Or, he spat on a Roman, and was just killed, with no meaning at all. John and Paul says he saved us from our sins, but Jesus says nothing like that in Matthew's Facebook posts. Why doesn't God come and tell us that on the news?

Quote
Jesus Christ never denied GOD.

He was delusional then.

Thankyou for trolling. Can you please post some more baseless assertions about Jesus, Paul, John, Dave and Luke?
I strive for clarity, but aim for confusion.

Offline Brakeman

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #207 on: February 21, 2012, 06:59:34 AM »
Quote from: Brakeman
..   Have you ever held a conversation with god? If so, what did he say to you?

I would tell you to seek Jesus Christ. By doing so you would be trusting in GOD.

Conversation, no. Communication, yes. It's like GOD suddenly appeared and we sat down and had tea and crumpets together. It wasn't like that.

OK then, how do you think you are different from the authors of the various books of the bible that would have had to have actual conversations with god to have the information to write? How is your christianity different than Saint Paul's for instance? He could not have gotten the first person information in his writings without an actual communication from god. God spoke verbally to many prophets in the bible, since when did he become mute? We know he no longer parts seas or destroys towers anymore as well, so what's the cause for his change of operations?

Besides, Acts 19 describes people like you, true believers who have asked god into their heart, but they couldn't actually speak to god through the holy spirit because they had a faulty baptism.

Do you think this may have happened to you? Are you sure that your baptismal rites were perfectly correct according to the scriptures? That may be your problem..
Help find the cure for FUNDAMENTIA !

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #208 on: February 21, 2012, 09:06:37 AM »
Hebrews 12:2, how does that work?

and:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44

How does that work?
I'm not sure what it is you are wanting to know here. How does what work?

I answered that my self in the next post when I saw you had left the discussion.
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #209 on: February 21, 2012, 09:20:54 AM »
ILY:
Hebrews 12:2 speaks directly to the central doctrine of Christian faith-salvation. In this scripture we are to see how Christ endured the cross (for our salvation) and that alone should draw us to God. I have a big issue with the immorality of this salvation thing to begin with. It is not moral that anyone should pay for my transgressions, for one thing. Put that aside for a moment though and consider this:

Accept Christ or eternal damnation, how is that a choice? Where is the free will in that?

It is not, it is coercion.

The Bible says, God saw you before you were born and predestined everything that you will ever do. 

Because He saw it, and wrote in His book each day of your life---it will be!  If He made you, and He knows what you were and are going to do, you do not have a choice. You will simply do what God predestined you to do.

If this is the case, that you were predestined to conform to the likeness of His son, how is it a choice?  And if God did not foresee that you would ‘choose’ to love Christ, then He is not omniscient.

Likewise, if a man is wicked, then God surely made him that way. 

The wicked do not have a choice, if God already made everything for its own purpose, the outcome is fixed. And nothing man can do will change that.

Finally, if God foresees everything except where man’s ‘free will’ is involved, then He is not all knowing or all powerful because He can not respond to or act upon something that He does not know.

The Bible clearly speaks against free will and for predestination.
Clearly, we are not free to choose Christ.

I think Jesus' life was every bit as important as His crucifixion.
See... you read this without understanding. But don't feel bad about that. Seriously.
 Yes this is true. The amazing things are what you're not seeing. the more you know and understand GOD the more He will help you to understand.

Way to to just skip over all the scripture from your Holy Book. That was for your edification, not mine. I know the scripture pretty well. I know that by cherry picking scripture just about anything can be said (due to its contradictory nature).

Anyone that says they understand the bible has made it say exactly what THEY want to hear, or what they were taught.

I expected at least a little Matthew Henry commentary on predestination from you.
How about a little effort answering questions?

Try this one on for size:

The Attributes of God
From the New American Standard Bible

God is all powerful
Jer 32:27 :  27”Behold, I am the LORD, the (A)God of all flesh; is anything (B)too difficult for Me?”
Matt 19:26 :  26And looking at them Jesus said to them, “(A)With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things:
Prov 15:3 :     3The (A)eyes of the LORD are in every place, Watching the evil and the good.
Ps 139:7-10 :     7(A)Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
    8(B)If I ascend to heaven, You are there;If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, (C)You are there.
    9If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,
    10Even there Your hand will (D)lead me, And Your right hand will lay hold of me.
Job 34:22,21 :     22”There is (A)no darkness or deep shadow Where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves.

God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24 : 24And they (A)prayed and said, “You, Lord, (B)who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen
Ps. 139:2,3 : 2You (A)know when I sit down and when I rise up; You (B)understand my thought from afar.

God is unchangeable
James 1:17 :  17Every good thing given and every perfect gift is (A)from above, coming down from (B)the Father of lights, (C)with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
Mal 3:6 :  6”For I, the LORD, (A)do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Ezek 24:14 :   14”I, the LORD, have spoken; it is (A)coming and I will act I will not relent, and I will not (B)pity and I will not be sorry; (C)according to your ways and according to your deeds I will judge you,” declares the Lord GOD.’”
Num 23:19 :     19”(A)God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; (B)Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15 :   15To declare that (A)the LORD is upright; He is my (B)rock, and there is (C)no unrighteousness in Him.
Gen 18:25 ;  25”Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not (A)the Judge of all the earth deal justly?”
Deut 32:4  :  4”(A)The Rock! His work is perfect, (B)For all His ways are just;
         (C)A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.
Rom 2:11 :  11For (A)there is no partiality with God.
Ezek 18:25 :  25”Yet you say, ‘(A)The way of the Lord is not right ‘ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is (B)My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?

Bonus
All scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16 :  16(A)All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Let's do that again with the same bible....

The Attributes of God
From The New American Standard Bible

God is not all powerful
Judges  1:19 :  19Now the LORD was with Judah, and they took possession of the hill country; but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had (A)iron chariots.

God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all things:
Gen 11:5 :  5(A)The LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.
Gen 18:20,21 :  20And the LORD said, “(A)The outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah is indeed great, and their sin is exceedingly grave.  21”I will (A)go down now, and see if they have done entirely according to its outcry, which has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”
Gen 3:8 : 8They heard the sound of (A)the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, (B)and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3 :  3you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is (A)testing you to find out if (B)you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deut 8:2 :  2”(A)You shall remember all the way which the LORD your God has (B)led you in the wilderness these forty years, that He might humble you, (C)testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.
Gen 22:12 :  12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now (A)I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld (B)your son, your only son, from Me.”

Changeable
Gen 6:6 :  6(A)The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was (B)grieved in His heart.
Jonah 3:10  10When God saw their deeds, that they (A)turned from their wicked way, then (B)God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it.
1 Sam 2:30,31 :  30”Therefore the LORD God of Israel declares, ‘(A)I did indeed say that your house and the house of your father should walk before Me forever’; but now the LORD declares, ‘Far be it from Me—for (B)those who honor Me I will honor, and those (C)who despise Me will be lightly esteemed.
2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6 ;  1(A)In those days Hezekiah became mortally ill And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him and said to him, “Thus says the LORD, ‘(B)Set your house in order, for you shall die and not live.’”  4Before Isaiah had gone out of the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him, saying,  5”Return and say to (A)Hezekiah the leader of My people, ‘Thus says the LORD, the God of your father David, “(B)I have heard your prayer, (C)I have seen your tears; behold, I will heal you. On the third day you shall go up to the house of the LORD.  6”I will add fifteen years to your life, and I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria; and (A)I will defend this city for My own sake and for My servant David’s sake.”’”
Ex 33:1,3,17,14 :  1Then the LORD spoke to Moses, “Depart, go up from here, you and the people whom you have brought up from the land of Egypt, to the land of which (A)I swore to Abraham, (B)Isaac, and (C)Jacob, saying, ‘(D)To your descendants I will give it.’   3”Go up to a land (A)flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, because you are (B)an obstinate people, and (C)I might destroy you on the way  17The LORD said to Moses, “I will also do this thing of which you have spoken; (A)for you have found favor in My sight and I have known you by name.”  14And He said, “(A)My presence shall go with you, and (B)I will give you rest.”

God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25 :  25So he said, “(A)Cursed be Canaan;[a](B)A servant of servants He shall be to his brothers.”
Ex 20:5 :  5”(A)You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a (B)jealous God, (C)visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Rom 9:11-13 :   11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that (A)God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,  12it was said to her, “(B)THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”  13Just as it is written, “(C)JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
Matt 13:12 : 12”(A)For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.

Bonus:
Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6 :  6But this I say by way of concession, (A)not of command.
1 Cor 7:12 : 12But to the rest (A)I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.
2 Cor 11:17 :  17What I am saying, I am not saying (A)as the Lord would, but as (B)in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting.

The bible clearly states that god is/is not an omnimax God. That God is/is not changeable, is/is not just, is/is not omnipotent, omniscient, or omnipresent.
Then again, the bible claims that it is/is not completely the inspired word of God.  The truth is, the bible can easily support any interpretation at all. This explains why there are so many (about 38,000) Christian sects. Of course, each sect will tell you that they have the correct interpretation of scripture because they have a magic decoder ring.




« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 09:30:12 AM by monkeymind »
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #210 on: February 21, 2012, 09:54:12 AM »
This is GOD'S decision. Can I ask you a question...?  ..
Which is worse in your own opinion... to have known GOD and molest a little one or to not have known GOD and molest a little one...?
SO how does one know god's decision?  How does one know god?
Specifically, There are two paths.. one is taking another's word  that he has spoken to god to get his word and the other is to communicate with god directly.

Which do you hold in the highest esteem?

Have you ever held a conversation with god? If so, what did he say to you?

I would tell you to seek Jesus Christ. By doing so you would be trusting in GOD.

Conversation, no. Communication, yes. It's not like GOD suddenly appeared and we sat down and had tea and crumpets together. It wasn't like that.

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #211 on: February 21, 2012, 09:54:58 AM »
This is GOD'S decision. Can I ask you a question...?  ..
Which is worse in your own opinion... to have known GOD and molest a little one or to not have known GOD and molest a little one...?
SO how does one know god's decision?  How does one know god?
Specifically, There are two paths.. one is taking another's word  that he has spoken to god to get his word and the other is to communicate with god directly.

Which do you hold in the highest esteem?

Have you ever held a conversation with god? If so, what did he say to you?

I would tell you to seek Jesus Christ. By doing so you would be trusting in GOD.

Conversation, no. Communication, yes. It's not like GOD suddenly appeared and we sat down and had tea and crumpets together. It wasn't like that.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #212 on: February 21, 2012, 09:58:57 AM »
OK, so what is God's language then? How do you communicate?^^^
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline Omen

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #213 on: February 21, 2012, 10:14:44 AM »
Evidence is subjective.

Not really.  Let's test if a fall from a tall building can harm you, you go first.

Quote
We have a bit of a dilemma here.

Its a situation that renders knowledge meaningless, one cannot separate the truth of your claims from its falsehood.  One cannot separate the existence of your god claim from its non-existence, precisely because you argue for it in such a way to render the ability to know anything meaningless.

Why are you not capable of arguing or defending your god claim through any other means?

Could I not argue for anything and everything, using the solipsistic appeals you've created?

Why would you expect us to take you seriously in any capacity or as if you were not mentally ill to some degree?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #214 on: February 21, 2012, 10:18:56 AM »
Quote from: Brakeman
..   Have you ever held a conversation with god? If so, what did he say to you?

I would tell you to seek Jesus Christ. By doing so you would be trusting in GOD.

Conversation, no. Communication, yes. It's like GOD suddenly appeared and we sat down and had tea and crumpets together. It wasn't like that.

OK then, how do you think you are different from the authors of the various books of the bible that would have had to have actual conversations with god to have the information to write? How is your christianity different than Saint Paul's for instance? He could not have gotten the first person information in his writings without an actual communication from god. God spoke verbally to many prophets in the bible, since when did he become mute? We know he no longer parts seas or destroys towers anymore as well, so what's the cause for his change of operations?

Besides, Acts 19 describes people like you, true believers who have asked god into their heart, but they couldn't actually speak to god through the holy spirit because they had a faulty baptism.

Do you think this may have happened to you? Are you sure that your baptismal rites were perfectly correct according to the scriptures? That may be your problem..

Faulty baptism...? I think you do not know what you are talking about and I am trying to explain this to you the best that I can so that you might understand.

Has GOD spoken to me directly...? Yes. Did I physically see Him.... no. By faith...yes. GOD has spoken to me w/o even saying a word but only showing His Authority. I was baptized about 25 years ago. Give or take a few. I heard the message, believed and was baptized.
It was in the winter. On a cold, cold day. I remember walking out into the water. Freezing and shivering. I didn't even know that much, just the good news. When the Pastor dipped me fully in the water and raised me. I was not longer cold or shivering. I felt at peace and weightless. A comforting gentle warmth that I am trying to describe to you the best that I can. From that moment I knew. And GOD has not forgotten me.

So before you speak about something that you do not understand and try and explain to me how wrong I am. Try listening to what I am saying to you.

You openly declare that you don't believe in GOD and that Christ is of no importance to you. And you of all people are telling me...? Aren't you the one asking me...?

Maybe you should be asking yourself this.
 

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #215 on: February 21, 2012, 10:25:24 AM »
This is GOD'S decision. Can I ask you a question...?  ..
Which is worse in your own opinion... to have known GOD and molest a little one or to not have known GOD and molest a little one...?
SO how does one know god's decision?  How does one know god?
Specifically, There are two paths.. one is taking another's word  that he has spoken to god to get his word and the other is to communicate with god directly.

Which do you hold in the highest esteem?

Have you ever held a conversation with god? If so, what did he say to you?

I would tell you to seek Jesus Christ. By doing so you would be trusting in GOD.

Conversation, no. Communication, yes. It's not like GOD suddenly appeared and we sat down and had tea and crumpets together. It wasn't like that.
GW Bush had conversations with God,,,,why not you??
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Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #216 on: February 21, 2012, 10:29:04 AM »
ILY: You suggest to seek Jesus. The bible says to seek ye first the kingdom of God. Matthew 6:33

I can see why you prefer to make up your own gospel since His word is so unreliable. And since you can't trust God's written word, how the heck are you supposed to trust the sounds in your head or the interpretation of tea leaves, or whatever it is you use to communicate with God?

You felt warmth in a freezing river while being baptised? That made you see His authority? You should have understood His "authority" before being saved, no?

Baptismal is (ADDED-whoops! not just) to show others one's commitment to Christ. And you don't understand this after 25 years?


Acts 2:38-41
And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls


Edit: bold
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:34:02 AM by monkeymind »
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #217 on: February 21, 2012, 10:54:08 AM »
Seeking Jesus? Hebrews 12:2, John 6:44 See the problem here?

Hebrews says we are drawn to Jesus by his sacrifice. John says we can't come to Jesus unless drawn by his father.

And then...

John 3:1-15
    Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

So we must seek FIRST the kingdom of God, but we can only come to Jesus if we are drawn by the father, but we can only believe if Jesus is lifted up, and we can only enter the kingdom of God if we are born of spirit, but we can only be born of spirit if we are baptised, but we can only be baptised if we believe, but we can only believe if we are born of spirit...But Jesus is God.... no wait...God is Jesus Father...

Yea, I see what you mean. Seek Jesus. Right.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 10:55:49 AM by monkeymind »
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #218 on: February 21, 2012, 10:56:00 AM »
We're back to the warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows again.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #219 on: February 21, 2012, 11:25:53 AM »
Has GOD spoken to me directly...? Yes. Did I physically see Him.... no. By faith...yes. GOD has spoken to me w/o even saying a word but only showing His Authority. I was baptized about 25 years ago. Give or take a few. I heard the message, believed and was baptized.
  So you have no idea what spoke ot you or if anything spoke to you.  A lot of people claim they hear their various gods and their gods have them kill their children or other people.  Please let me know how to tell how is really talking to a god.  And please, don’t try to claim that their or your god woldn’t ask such a thing because your very own bible shows this to be untrue.   

Quote
It was in the winter. On a cold, cold day. I remember walking out into the water. Freezing and shivering. I didn't even know that much, just the good news. When the Pastor dipped me fully in the water and raised me. I was not longer cold or shivering. I felt at peace and weightless. A comforting gentle warmth that I am trying to describe to you the best that I can. From that moment I knew. And GOD has not forgotten me.
  Yep, delusion can do this.  Again, nothing to show that you or your experience is special at all. 
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Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #220 on: February 21, 2012, 11:30:38 AM »
Ran off again?
Oh well...James 4:7
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #221 on: February 21, 2012, 11:35:42 AM »
BTW ILY:

Often one feels warm when freezing to death. Many begin to disrobe. Very common.
The warm feeling you experienced is easily explained by this.

Quote
One explanation for the effect is a cold-induced malfunction of the hypothalamus, the part of the brain that regulates body temperature. Another explanation is that the muscles contracting peripheral blood vessels become exhausted (known as a loss of vasomotor tone) and relax, leading to a sudden surge of blood (and heat) to the extremities, fooling the person into feeling overheated.[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #222 on: February 21, 2012, 02:27:50 PM »
Evidence is subjective.

No, evidence is not subjective. If evidence was subjective than it could never tell us anything for certain, as it would change depending on the person looking at it.

We have a bit of a dilemma here.

I agree, you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. Not even by the smallest margin.

I didn't expect you to understand. From what you've said, I know that you don't understand.

If you want to explore, study and examine GODS creation. Thats fine.

No, you're the one that doesn't understand. That's the pity of it.

If evidence is subjective, then it changes depending on the person who is looking at it. This means that you can never actually know the truth, because the truth is simply whatever you decide it is. So you are admitting that all of your claims about exploring and understanding god are a lie, because the only standard of evidence you are using is your own subjective viewpoint (ie. you believe whatever you want to believe).

Now if that's the only standard you want to use, that's your perogative. But to say that you have even the slightest interest in understanding god or knowing the truth is an out and out falsehood, and you do a disservice both to us and to yourself to try and pretend otherwise.

If you had actual evidence, then you could point to it and it should not matter if someone else shares a different subjective opinion. The evidence should still point in the same direction.

A person who was truly interested in truth and understanding would look beyond their subjective thoughts, not use them as the cornerstone of their case and call it evidence.

You're still avoiding the question. If you have no proof of anything that you claim or think about your god, how can one draw a distinction between your claims and fantasy?

The problem with subjective evidence is that something subjective can be shown to mean many different things. So the same evidence that you use to prove your ideas about god can just as easily prove mine. Or the Jewish ideas, or the Hindu's, or Muslims. That's why you can't honestly say that you are trying to understand or seek the truth if you are relying on subjective evidence. Because your ideas are on the same level as those of a man who believes tthat rubbing butter on his chest will let him fly.

Your own fluffy feelings do not provide truth anymore than the fluffy feelings of everyone else does.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 08:33:44 PM by Alzael »
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #223 on: February 21, 2012, 04:23:18 PM »
No, All of you are different. It's not like I haven't been mad or frustrated with GOD. But no, I do not believe all of you feel this way. I feel a lot of people have been emotionally scorned that left a scar. I know how some of you feel. I have been mocked at, laughed at. Looked down upon. By people whom I thought were supposed to be my Brothers and Sisters. I have been told That I couldn't be forgiven. That I was blotted out.  I hurt so much. I was told that I had been cut off. I was told that I was out of The Lords will. And the people whom I thought were here to help me cut me so deeply. I went to family members, Pastors, evangelist. I called prayer lines. But I kept going back. Scared, alone. Frightened. I prayed for over a year begging and sobbing. Alone, nearly everyday.

I'm sorry your experiences with other people of faith have been so awful for you.  I have had no such issues.  I just think it's ridiculous from top to bottom. If you'd let go of the whole thing and start living your life as the captain of your own ship and not some lackey of an invisible sky man, then things might start to improve for you.  From what you've posted here, it seems you put too much emphasis on what others think instead of thinking for yourself. 

He is not real to you. I hope you understand this.

Yes, because I live in a little place I like to call.... reality. 

There are really 3 possibilities here.  Either your God exists, it doesn't exist, or a different god exists.  This is a fact, is it not?  I mean, we can't both be right.  So it has to be one of the 3.  You say he is real.  I say he is not.  What can we do to see who IS right.  We can look to the evidence.  You just don't have any. 


I wonder what it is you are looking for when you don't know what it is you are looking for...It is hard to find something when you have no idea what it is you are looking for.

An honest approach to the question would not be to start out looking for something.  It would be to let the evidence lead you to what's there.  That's the only way to truly arrive at the truth.

If you start out hellbent looking for God, then you will find him no matter what the evidence is to the contrary.  This is what you have done.  This is what ALL religious people have done, regardless of which god you're talking about.  You've been brainwashed to think God exists and that He is the greatest thing in the universe; and despite MASSIVE evidence to the contrary, you hold onto that belief with a deadly kung fu grip.   An honest person would look at children being raped and ask them self... "Hmm, is that evidence that there is an all powerful God that loves us?"  And the answer is obvious. You know what it is.  You won't go there though, because the brainwashing has been so total and so complete.  You can't possibly see it as wrong, even though your instinct cries out that it is. 

Can you possibly deny the following statement: One possible reason why little children are allowed to be beaten, raped and killed is because there is no all powerful, all loving God to stop it? 

Why would you even ask me this question about something you do not believe exists.

If you look at the beginning of the paragraph you quoted here, I said "assuming God exists".  I do not believe, not for one second do I believe, that God exists.  But in order to have a meaningful conversation with you about your belief system, I must step inside of it to show you how foolish it is from that direction.  Otherwise I'd be relegated to just saying "God isn't real" over and over and over again.  Then it would degenerate into an "Is not", "Is too" argument which is not productive for anyone. 

You have answered your own question, why do you ask me about GOD then...?

I am asking because I want to see what sort of mental gymnastics your brain will do to come up with an excuse to explain it all away, and you didn't disappoint.  It's like watching a car wreck.  You can't look away.  :) 

What you saying is that you expect GOD to supernaturally heal anyone and everyone from everything everywhere all the time or GOD does not exist.

That's totally wrong ILY.  I am asking for verifiable proof that He even healed one.  Is that really so much to ask?  You said ALL healing comes from God.  I am simply asking you to prove it.  What evidence do you have other than what you think? 

So in order for GOD to be GOD to you, He would have to do what you expect of Him, take orders from you, conform to what your understanding of GOD should be and meet your expectations. If GOD healed one amputee, would you be satisfied...? And then what...? Are you miraculously going to change...?

Remember, ILY.  It is you and your Christian brethren that set the bar for God.  YOU say he is all good and all powerful, not me.  Don't get upset with me when he fails to meet even the most simple definitions of 'good'.  If you are going to claim God is good, then it better be a world without children getting raped, or I'm going to say you're full of shit.   It would be like me saying the sky is red, and getting mad at you when you point at the sky and say, "No dude, it's fucking blue." 

If I had undeniable evidence that God replaced a lost limb, I might not change on the spot, but it would be one hell of a good start.  It would be the first (and I mean that... the very first) solid reason I've ever come across to believe in Him.  There are no others. 


Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #224 on: February 21, 2012, 05:53:58 PM »
Quote
ILY: You suggest to seek Jesus. The bible says to seek ye first the kingdom of God. Matthew 6:33

Good point. Who said this...? Whom was this person telling this to...?

Jesus said this. He said this to people who already believed. The scripture before this makes this clear.

I am glad you sought Jesus for this information. See how that works...?

Quote
I can see why you prefer to make up your own gospel since His word is so unreliable. And since you can't trust God's written word, how the heck are you supposed to trust the sounds in your head or the interpretation of tea leaves, or whatever it is you use to communicate with God?
How is it that you can't understand this.

Quote
You felt warmth in a freezing river while being baptised? That made you see His authority? You should have understood His "authority" before being saved, no?
My comment to that statement was not specific to that moment.
Baptismal is (ADDED-whoops! not just) to show others one's commitment to Christ. And you don't understand this after 25 years?

Can you show me where the Bible states this. Jesus Himself was baptized.

Is it more important to gain the approval of man or GOD...?

Quote
Acts 2:38-41
And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls
Yes, and you point is...?

Edit: bold
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 06:02:13 PM by ILOVEYOU »

Offline Brakeman

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #225 on: February 21, 2012, 06:07:34 PM »
Faulty baptism...? I think you do not know what you are talking about and I am trying to explain this to you the best that I can so that you might understand.

Has GOD spoken to me directly...? Yes. Did I physically see Him.... no. By faith...yes. GOD has spoken to me w/o even saying a word but only showing His Authority. ..

He spoke to you without saying a word.. now really..  So how could other christians write god dictated scripture with the same type of conversations that you have with god?

Communication is the exchange of information, if you already have the information and there is no exchange.. it is NOT communication.  That's like calling your friend on the phone, but he doesn't speak, while you read letters written by someone else that claims that your friend would have said these words if he was speaking.

According to Act's 19, the christians prayed, but had no communication with the holy spirit. They may have had warm fuzzy feelings..it doesn't say.. but I suspect they did. You claim a conversation that is purely laughable if you tried to put it in another context. You claim god talked to you, but not in words. Don't you think in words? Even if he sent telepathic voiceless communication with you it would still need it to be in words to be significant. You can't follow a god on feelings of awe and hot and cold. You have to have a true message, and if there is communication it has to be two way. Even a Ouija board uses spelling. How useless would a Ouija board be without any words? It would just be a person pushing a puck around on a piece of cardboard.  Did Moses sense god's instructions by the warm fuzzy feeling he got when he walked in the direction of Canaan?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 06:10:29 PM by Brakeman »
Help find the cure for FUNDAMENTIA !

Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #226 on: February 21, 2012, 06:16:06 PM »
So you have no idea what spoke ot you or if anything spoke to you.  A lot of people claim they hear their various gods and their gods have them kill their children or other people.  Please let me know how to tell how is really talking to a god.  And please, don’t try to claim that their or your god woldn’t ask such a thing because your very own bible shows this to be untrue.
I can't think of a better answer than what Jesus Christ has already given. (James 10:27)

Offline Brakeman

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #227 on: February 21, 2012, 06:24:15 PM »
I can't think of a better answer than what Jesus Christ has already given. (James 10:27)

John 10:27

New King James Version (NKJV)

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

So do shepherds have conversations with sheep? Do sheep pray to the shepherd? How does the sheep know the difference when the Shepherd is leading them to a green pasture or to a slaughterhouse?  Do the sheep REALLY hear a human voice (unlike you), or do they just get warm fuzzy feelings inside? 
Help find the cure for FUNDAMENTIA !

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #228 on: February 21, 2012, 06:25:07 PM »
ILY,

The writing in this post is red because I am speaking to you as a member of the administrative team. If you intend to post more on this forum you need to learn to quote properly. Go to the FAQ section and take the time to learn how to do it, it is not tough to learn.

It is an imposition on others if you continue posting without learning this basic forum skill.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #229 on: February 21, 2012, 06:33:43 PM »
So you have no idea what spoke ot you or if anything spoke to you.  A lot of people claim they hear their various gods and their gods have them kill their children or other people.  Please let me know how to tell how is really talking to a god.  And please, don’t try to claim that their or your god woldn’t ask such a thing because your very own bible shows this to be untrue.
I can't think of a better answer than what Jesus Christ has already given. (James 10:27)

You could answer with proof. That would be a very good answer.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #230 on: February 21, 2012, 07:07:42 PM »
Faulty baptism...? I think you do not know what you are talking about and I am trying to explain this to you the best that I can so that you might understand.

Has GOD spoken to me directly...? Yes. Did I physically see Him.... no. By faith...yes. GOD has spoken to me w/o even saying a word but only showing His Authority. ..

He spoke to you without saying a word.. now really..  So how could other christians write god dictated scripture with the same type of conversations that you have with god?

Communication is the exchange of information, if you already have the information and there is no exchange.. it is NOT communication.  That's like calling your friend on the phone, but he doesn't speak, while you read letters written by someone else that claims that your friend would have said these words if he was speaking.

According to Act's 19, the christians prayed, but had no communication with the holy spirit. They may have had warm fuzzy feelings..it doesn't say.. but I suspect they did. You claim a conversation that is purely laughable if you tried to put it in another context. You claim god talked to you, but not in words. Don't you think in words? Even if he sent telepathic voiceless communication with you it would still need it to be in words to be significant. You can't follow a god on feelings of awe and hot and cold. You have to have a true message, and if there is communication it has to be two way. Even a Ouija board uses spelling. How useless would a Ouija board be without any words? It would just be a person pushing a puck around on a piece of cardboard.  Did Moses sense god's instructions by the warm fuzzy feeling he got when he walked in the direction of Canaan?

Did you read what He said and what they said and when this happened...?

Paul asked them if they received the Holy Spirit when they first "believed".

They said no. They received Johns' baptism. Which was a baptism of repentance. John was preaching and baptizing for repetance. So if they were baptized by John. Jesus was not yet finished. And John was murdered before Jesus' death and resurrection.

Interesting enough. Read about when Philip baptized the Eunuch.

Also Acts 16 31:34




 



Offline ILOVEYOU

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Re: Speaking in GoDs Language
« Reply #231 on: February 21, 2012, 07:25:40 PM »
ILY,

The writing in this post is red because I am speaking to you as a member of the administrative team. If you intend to post more on this forum you need to learn to quote properly. Go to the FAQ section and take the time to learn how to do it, it is not tough to learn.

It is an imposition on others if you continue posting without learning this basic forum skill.

I apologize. I will focus on doing better and cutting out the unnecessary bulk of the quotes but be more direct. I have tried to go back and fix some but it seems as if I am unable to modify and fix quotes after a certain length of time. I will do a better job of leaving an accurate response to a quote after the last end quote tag also.

It's bothersome to me as well and I understand your concern.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:27:29 PM by ILOVEYOU »