Speaking in GoDs Language

[ILOVEYOU]

So, I'm getting the hint that you reject all things Spiritual.... amIright...?

What is spiritual?
Do I reject all things supernatural? yes. until someone can give me a reason to believe such things. But when they give me a valid reason, its no longer belief because its based on something tangible.

Spiritual....? This is probably pretty controversial as many people have different opinions. But since you asked, a part of us that needs nurtured by food that only GOD can provide.

[nogodsforme]

ILY,

Do you accept the Germ Theory of Disease, or do you think that illness is caused by supernatural forces or magical beings? Do you accept the Theory of Gravitation, or do you think that things are held to the earth by the force of magical beliefs? All scientific theories have some areas of disagreement among scientists, because we don't know everything. But scientists still think that the theories themselves are valid.

When scientists disagree, it is like two writers arguing over where to put the comma. Both writers accept that they are writing, that they are using English, that they are writing a book. You are saying that the scientists are fighting over whether the book exists at all, when they are fighting about where to put the comma.

You seem to think that if there are debates among scientists, than all the scientists are wrong and therefore the answer must be magic.

We know that science works because everyone all over the world can enjoy the benefits of a better life. Eradicating diseases, growing better crops, providing clean water, electricity, refrigeration, communication, etc.  all are due to science. This is what science is good for. There is clear evidence.

If prayer works, what is it good for? What is the evidence? It should be pretty obvious if there is really a god who wants us to have prayers answered.

[The Gawd]

Spiritual....? This is probably pretty controversial as many people have different opinions. But since you asked, a part of us that needs nurtured by food that only GOD can provide.

Yes, I reject that.
I havent always though. When I was a christian and would go to church, there was a song "It Wasnt the Nails" or something like that but in essence it was about the it not being the nails that held jesus to the cross, rather the love. And there were some EXCEPTIONAL singers in my church. That song would "touch" me every time. Yes, I felt something. When I was a christian I'd call that god. But then I'd have that same experience when I heard Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey ballads, or 2Pac's "Keep Ya Head Up", or when I fell in love the first time, and when I look into my daughters eyes and see her smile, or when I get big hugs from my nieces while they yell out "Uncle The Gawd", or when I'm with my buddies that Ive known for 24 of my 30 years and I know (through experience) that they have my back and I have theres through thick and thin (because we've been through thick and thin). I'd get that same feeling. That feeling, is you realizing your humanity.

Are you suggesting Tupac Shakur is god? If not, I have no reason to believe that feeling is somehow related to a god of any sort, much less one that is self admittedly a genocidal maniac.

[Astreja]

Its a situation that renders knowledge meaningless, one cannot separate the truth of your claims from its falsehood.

I'd take it even further than that, Omen.

Even if someone claims to Know because they have a perspective supposedly planted in their mind by a god, who's to say that what they see is accurate?  How is a non-god supposed to verify the credentials and the assertions of a more powerful being?  Their "spiritual insight" could be just what that particular god wants them to see and believe, yet have no relationship to reality.

[learnin]

HAHAHAHAHA they can't

I was one of those people. It's make believe 100%

I just babbled whatever came to mind, if you really look at it everyone that does it has a pattern that repeats and Bill Maher has a Movie called Religulous <---- may have spelled it wrong because it is spelled weird.........

Speaking and translating is fake its VERY VERY VERY fake I know i was in on it first hand.

Can you expand a bit on this?

Why did you do it, when did you do it, where did you do it, did you think you were clever, sneaky, supreme, impressive, animalistic, etc? Would be interesting to hear why as I cannot imagine any situation where it would be acceptable to act like that. Not one.

It's a physiological and group mentality thing......Hard to explain.....It's almost like a high.  Imagine going to a concert and the energy of everyone is so strong you cant help but dance.....kinda the same thing. I hope that helps.

This.  You nailed it very well.   I tried it one time.  Used to work in a hospital and befriended this pentecostal preacher who tried to get me baptized in the spirit.  We used to go to the break room and pray, in the evening when no one else was around, and he would start speaking sha no nay sha no nay...and raising his hands up...and I would start praying out loud....he'd lay his hands on me all to no avail.  I'm somewhat of an introvert (have to force myself to be outgoing) and very self conscious so this was a drawback right away.  But I can see how an extrovert could get real emotional at these big gatherings...a sort of mass hysteria.....

[ILOVEYOU]

ILY,

Do you accept the Germ Theory of Disease, or do you think that illness is caused by supernatural forces or magical beings? Do you accept the Theory of Gravitation, or do you think that things are held to the earth by the force of magical beliefs? All scientific theories have some areas of disagreement among scientists, because we don't know everything. But scientists still think that the theories themselves are valid.

When scientists disagree, it is like two writers arguing over where to put the comma. Both writers accept that they are writing, that they are using English, that they are writing a book. You are saying that the scientists are fighting over whether the book exists at all, when they are fighting about where to put the comma.

You seem to think that if there are debates among scientists, than all the scientists are wrong and therefore the answer must be magic.

We know that science works because everyone all over the world can enjoy the benefits of a better life. Eradicating diseases, growing better crops, providing clean water, electricity, refrigeration, communication, etc.  all are due to science. This is what science is good for. There is clear evidence.

If prayer works, what is it good for? What is the evidence? It should be pretty obvious if there is really a god who wants us to have prayers answered.

I think sin was the fall of man.A huge one at that. At one point in time, I feel that things were at harmony. And I feel the story of Adam and Eve give a glimpse of what happened and why. I do believe in supernatural healing but as well, I believe that its perfectly OK to seek medical attention and  the study of modern medicinal treatment and remedies. I firmly believe that "All" healing is of GOD.
And to affirm this and why I feel this way, one could read the parable of the Good Samaritan. Jesus affirms this by commending the Good Samaritan by tending his wounds and taking him to an Inn until he heals. Another thing I like about this, Jesus commended him for his actions, not religion.

From my understanding, Scientist can't really give a good explanation for gravity. I'm sure there is a reason for it's existence. But what appears to us as the laws of the Universe and we may be able to somewhat explain how it works, has no bearing whether or not it is by design. It very well could be. I believe this but others, maybe not. But an explanation of how and why something works has absolutely no bearing  as to why it even exists in the first place.

And if you believe in Evolution, at some point you have to ask yourself who or what set this process in motion. Has it always existed like this? As determined, Scientist have determined The Bang as the focal point. But absolutely nothing has any relevance for purpose. And if
there doesn't need to be any purpose, then I guess I could have been no better or worse having not heard of it in the first place. So it really doesn't matter at all. So if History repeats itself as it has shown us. All of this knowledge is useless in the long run because no one would exist to utilize this knowledge. And things may or may not start all over from the beginning again. Who knows...?

Scientists can put the comma where ever they want. At any given point, that can change to.

No, I don't feel their explanations are magic. Really smart dudes in their fields actually. But seriously, there are still species living on this planet that we have not discovered and yet here we are trying to explain existence w/ the immaculate Big Bang theory. Money would be better served feeding to poor and sheltering the homeless.

Do you realize that the vegetation on this planet is not nearly as nutritious as it once were. Or at least what is being fed to people with all the pesticides and preservatives. It pales in comparison to what was being produced naturally in nutritious value 50 years ago.

And about prayer...
This is something that is personal between you and GOD.     

[learnin]

Someone else talking to the Almighty... lotta repetition, though.

I always thought this was the one of the creepier aspects of christianity. A physical manifestation of all the crazy going on inside, I suppose.

E.

Looks like to me she's rocking on someone...  is she having an orgasm?

[ILOVEYOU]

Spiritual....? This is probably pretty controversial as many people have different opinions. But since you asked, a part of us that needs nurtured by food that only GOD can provide.

Yes, I reject that.
I havent always though. When I was a christian and would go to church, there was a song "It Wasnt the Nails" or something like that but in essence it was about the it not being the nails that held jesus to the cross, rather the love. And there were some EXCEPTIONAL singers in my church. That song would "touch" me every time. Yes, I felt something. When I was a christian I'd call that god. But then I'd have that same experience when I heard Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey ballads, or 2Pac's "Keep Ya Head Up", or when I fell in love the first time, and when I look into my daughters eyes and see her smile, or when I get big hugs from my nieces while they yell out "Uncle The Gawd", or when I'm with my buddies that Ive known for 24 of my 30 years and I know (through experience) that they have my back and I have theres through thick and thin (because we've been through thick and thin). I'd get that same feeling. That feeling, is you realizing your humanity.

Are you suggesting Tupac Shakur is god? If not, I have no reason to believe that feeling is somehow related to a god of any sort, much less one that is self admittedly a genocidal maniac.

Dude, it's not about the warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows. Yes, GODS presence is real. And i have heard several people saying the same thing. For me, there was no exception that I felt a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling when I first believed and was baptized.
I have never felt it as strong again as I did that day. It has been about 25 years give or take. But a lot has happened in that time.

[learnin]

Spiritual....? This is probably pretty controversial as many people have different opinions. But since you asked, a part of us that needs nurtured by food that only GOD can provide.

Yes, I reject that.
I havent always though. When I was a christian and would go to church, there was a song "It Wasnt the Nails" or something like that but in essence it was about the it not being the nails that held jesus to the cross, rather the love. And there were some EXCEPTIONAL singers in my church. That song would "touch" me every time. Yes, I felt something. When I was a christian I'd call that god. But then I'd have that same experience when I heard Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey ballads, or 2Pac's "Keep Ya Head Up", or when I fell in love the first time, and when I look into my daughters eyes and see her smile, or when I get big hugs from my nieces while they yell out "Uncle The Gawd", or when I'm with my buddies that Ive known for 24 of my 30 years and I know (through experience) that they have my back and I have theres through thick and thin (because we've been through thick and thin). I'd get that same feeling. That feeling, is you realizing your humanity.

Are you suggesting Tupac Shakur is god? If not, I have no reason to believe that feeling is somehow related to a god of any sort, much less one that is self admittedly a genocidal maniac.

Good post with excellent points.  Hell, I was watching a show tonight and got all worked up by a very emotional scene.  I was so worked up that I had tears well up in my eyes.  And, hell, it was all fiction....never happened...yet, I was moved.  If I get moved by a parable or a gospel passage, does that mean it's real?

[12 Monkeys]

Why are you people wasting your time on this fucking retard?

[ILOVEYOU]

Why are you people wasting your time on this fucking retard?

Whatever....
later dude.

Like I've done anything to deserve a personal attack.

Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Good luck with that.

Honestly....

[12 Monkeys]

try telling us something that has not been torn to shreds on this forum for eons now...then we can talk

[learnin]

Dude, it's not about the warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows. Yes, GODS presence is real. And i have heard several people saying the same thing. For me, there was no exception that I felt a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling when I first believed and was baptized.
I have never felt it as strong again as I did that day. It has been about 25 years give or take. But a lot has happened in that time.

You say it's not about warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows yet you then God's presence as "a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling".  If that isn't warm fuzzies, what is?   If you read my previous post, here, I relate an experience I had just this evening.  I was watching a fictional drama and was moved to tears by ....by.....a fictional character and fictional scene.

I'm not arguing against god.   Heck, I don't know what it's all about or if it's about anything.  But I'm going to argue against anyone who claims they KNOW God exists because they felt moved or faint or light or felt good and tingly.

You cannot know if a being is real simply by having an emotional experience.  When I was a child, I got on a high so tremendous whenever Christmas Eve came and it was time for bed.  I believed in Santa Claus and to this day, 56 years later, that emotional high can still be recalled...it was like floating on air....weightless feeling...but it all came about from a being that really didn't exist.

Get the point.  Your argument means nothing.  You need to present verifiable evidence as others have already stated.  And, again, I'm not arguing against some kind of higher being...I'm arguing against the reasons given for believing in such a being.

[ILOVEYOU]

Dude, it's not about the warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows. Yes, GODS presence is real. And i have heard several people saying the same thing. For me, there was no exception that I felt a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling when I first believed and was baptized.
I have never felt it as strong again as I did that day. It has been about 25 years give or take. But a lot has happened in that time.

You say it's not about warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows yet you then God's presence as "a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling".  If that isn't warm fuzzies, what is?   If you read my previous post, here, I relate an experience I had just this evening.  I was watching a fictional drama and was moved to tears by ....by.....a fictional character and fictional scene.

I'm not arguing against god.   Heck, I don't know what it's all about or if it's about anything.  But I'm going to argue against anyone who claims they KNOW God exists because they felt moved or faint or light or felt good and tingly.

You cannot know if a being is real simply by having an emotional experience.  When I was a child, I got on a high so tremendous whenever Christmas Eve came and it was time for bed.  I believed in Santa Claus and to this day, 56 years later, that emotional high can still be recalled...it was like floating on air....weightless feeling...but it all came about from a being that really didn't exist.

Get the point.  Your argument means nothing.  You need to present verifiable evidence as others have already stated.  And, again, I'm not arguing against some kind of higher being...I'm arguing against the reasons given for believing in such a being.

I'm not here to proselytize. I can't change your mind nor can I make you a believer. It is not my job to convince you or anyone that GOD exists. I was simply relaying my experience since some of you were kind enough to share yours. I don't base my believing in GOD just on this. My evidence is personal to me and to me only. I could tell you until I was blue in the face but that won't change anything.

I heard a joke the other day...

How many Psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb...?

Only One but the light bulb has to be willing and want to change.

[learnin]

Dude, it's not about the warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows. Yes, GODS presence is real. And i have heard several people saying the same thing. For me, there was no exception that I felt a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling when I first believed and was baptized.
I have never felt it as strong again as I did that day. It has been about 25 years give or take. But a lot has happened in that time.

You say it's not about warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows yet you then God's presence as "a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling".  If that isn't warm fuzzies, what is?   If you read my previous post, here, I relate an experience I had just this evening.  I was watching a fictional drama and was moved to tears by ....by.....a fictional character and fictional scene.

I'm not arguing against god.   Heck, I don't know what it's all about or if it's about anything.  But I'm going to argue against anyone who claims they KNOW God exists because they felt moved or faint or light or felt good and tingly.

You cannot know if a being is real simply by having an emotional experience.  When I was a child, I got on a high so tremendous whenever Christmas Eve came and it was time for bed.  I believed in Santa Claus and to this day, 56 years later, that emotional high can still be recalled...it was like floating on air....weightless feeling...but it all came about from a being that really didn't exist.

Get the point.  Your argument means nothing.  You need to present verifiable evidence as others have already stated.  And, again, I'm not arguing against some kind of higher being...I'm arguing against the reasons given for believing in such a being.

I'm not here to proselytize. I can't change your mind nor can I make you a believer. It is not my job to convince you or anyone that GOD exists. I was simply relaying my experience since some of you were kind enough to share yours. I don't base my believing in GOD just on this. My evidence is personal to me and to me only. I could tell you until I was blue in the face but that won't change anything.

I heard a joke the other day...

How many Psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb...?

Only One but the light bulb has to be willing and want to change.

I'm a believer.  I believe in love.  I believe in that "spirit" if you will that makes me not want to do harm to another.  That "spirit" if you will that makes me want to help someone in need.....to make their life a little more bearable.  Now, if God is that "spirit", then I believe in God.  The problem is, if God created this world, I don't see much evidence of his love.  Right now, for instance, there are thousands of little girls and boys getting raped by a family member in this old world.  And no other human being even realizes it as it's being done in secret.  If a loving human being saw this, they would be compelled to stop the torture.  But, in many cases, no one knows of the abuse except the child and the person abusing.   But, if God exists, God knows and he does nothing to stop it.  Can you see my point?

[ILOVEYOU]

Dude, it's not about the warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows. Yes, GODS presence is real. And i have heard several people saying the same thing. For me, there was no exception that I felt a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling when I first believed and was baptized.
I have never felt it as strong again as I did that day. It has been about 25 years give or take. But a lot has happened in that time.

You say it's not about warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows yet you then God's presence as "a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling".  If that isn't warm fuzzies, what is?   If you read my previous post, here, I relate an experience I had just this evening.  I was watching a fictional drama and was moved to tears by ....by.....a fictional character and fictional scene.

I'm not arguing against god.   Heck, I don't know what it's all about or if it's about anything.  But I'm going to argue against anyone who claims they KNOW God exists because they felt moved or faint or light or felt good and tingly.

You cannot know if a being is real simply by having an emotional experience.  When I was a child, I got on a high so tremendous whenever Christmas Eve came and it was time for bed.  I believed in Santa Claus and to this day, 56 years later, that emotional high can still be recalled...it was like floating on air....weightless feeling...but it all came about from a being that really didn't exist.

Get the point.  Your argument means nothing.  You need to present verifiable evidence as others have already stated.  And, again, I'm not arguing against some kind of higher being...I'm arguing against the reasons given for believing in such a being.

I'm not here to proselytize. I can't change your mind nor can I make you a believer. It is not my job to convince you or anyone that GOD exists. I was simply relaying my experience since some of you were kind enough to share yours. I don't base my believing in GOD just on this. My evidence is personal to me and to me only. I could tell you until I was blue in the face but that won't change anything.

I heard a joke the other day...

How many Psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb...?

Only One but the light bulb has to be willing and want to change.

I'm a believer.  I believe in love.  I believe in that "spirit" if you will that makes me not want to do harm to another.  That "spirit" if you will that makes me want to help someone in need.....to make their life a little more bearable.  Now, if God is that "spirit", then I believe in God.  The problem is, if God created this world, I don't see much evidence of his love.  Right now, for instance, there are thousands of little girls and boys getting raped by a family member in this old world.  And no other human being even realizes it as it's being done in secret.  If a loving human being saw this, they would be compelled to stop the torture.  But, in many cases, no one knows of the abuse except the child and the person abusing.   But, if God exists, God knows and he does nothing to stop it.  Can you see my point?

Yes I see your point. First off, I am not GOD and do not pretend to be. I also believe in love. And if you feel the way you do about love, then I can only assume that you are closer than you think at the moment. But what is love really...? Just a feeling or an action. How do we know what love is...? Does a Father discipline his child to correct them out of love...? Does one put there needs aside to serve the needs of another...? The question is....What is true love...? And how do you learn it...? Who determines it...?

As to why GOD would allow certain things to happen. IDK
Yes, these things occur and it deeply saddens me. And I rather not try and pacify an answer for you without knowing for sure. But what I can tell you that even though we know these evil and inhumane acts occur we still have the power of love to conquer all of them.

[dloubet]

We are not talking about a general thing here but a supernatural gift.

Have you checked to see if it actually is a supernatural gift? If you have not, and just believe it is, then you don't actually care if it's true or not, you will just believe that it is true.

I can think of no greater means of utter irresponsibility than that.

[The Gawd]

Dude, it's not about the warm fuzzies and fluffy pillows. Yes, GODS presence is real. And i have heard several people saying the same thing. For me, there was no exception that I felt a melting presence and sorta weightless feeling when I first believed and was baptized.
I have never felt it as strong again as I did that day. It has been about 25 years give or take. But a lot has happened in that time.

What youre describing in this post IS "warm fuzzies" and "fluffy pillows". Whatever warm fuzzies youve felt since your first experience you attribute to a god you can neither prove nor even provide evidence for. Not one shred. Furthermore you can offer alternatives as to where those "fluffy pillows" originate from. Your experience is no different from a Muslim saying the same thing (actually thats a poor example because you worship the same imaginary god)... no different from a Hindu, or Buddhist, or any other relgion that has been dreamt up or even will be dreamt up in the future. And non religous people feel it too, thats evidence that its simply your humanity. Its part of the human experience.


when you start claiming this deity is helping you get through your trivial tribulations your forced to provide some sort of rationale as to why it ignores his:

[NHB]

Do you realize that the vegetation on this planet is not nearly as nutritious as it once were. Or at least what is being fed to people with all the pesticides and preservatives. It pales in comparison to what was being produced naturally in nutritious value 50 years ago.
 

HAHA... are you just making this up as you go along?  There is nothing further from the truth.  Thanks to science we can grow crops more efficiently now more than ever.  Our life span keeps getting longer and longer thanks to science. Women's are able to have babies later in life.  Athletes are able to compete well into their 40's.  The list goes on and on.

Where did you come up with vegetation bot being as nutritious as it once was?  You do understand that's not even possible, right?

You are really uneducated about this.

[plethora]

I think sin was the fall of man.A huge one at that. At one point in time, I feel that things were at harmony. And I feel the story of Adam and Eve give a glimpse of what happened and why.

I've done breakdowns of the Genesis creation myth many times. Now I don't know if you believe in it literally, so I'll just say this...

The god you believe in is supposedly omnipresent and omniscient. It knows everything, right?

Your god supposedly created humans to his specific design. So, as the designer, he is directly responsible for his creation's strengths, weaknesses and overall capabilities.

Your god supposedly invented all the rules and moral codes by which his creation would be judged. Since he is supposedly omniscient, he knew perfectly well in advance that his creation would be unable to abide by his rules.

Since supposedly he designed humans, he made up the rules and he already knew that humans would fail his test.... who is responsible then for the "fall of man"?

Your god, that's who. According to your beliefs, we were set to fail by him.

Of course I don't believe any of this nonsense... I'm just pointing out how an omnimax being in this case would necessarily be to blame for everything.

I do believe in supernatural healing but as well, I believe that its perfectly OK to seek medical attention and  the study of modern medicinal treatment and remedies. I firmly believe that "All" healing is of GOD.

So we're back to giving your god credit for everything. That's fine, if your god is willing to take credit for all the bad stuff too. 7.6 million children died in 2010 alone before reaching the age of 5.[1] You can credit your god for that too... since he knows full well in advance how many more millions will die year on year without any 'healing' being provided to them.

From my understanding, Scientist can't really give a good explanation for gravity. I'm sure there is a reason for it's existence. But what appears to us as the laws of the Universe and we may be able to somewhat explain how it works, has no bearing whether or not it is by design. It very well could be. I believe this but others, maybe not. But an explanation of how and why something works has absolutely no bearing  as to why it even exists in the first place.

Explain why your god exists in the first place. Why does a god exist?

The usual answer I get is that he just does. That he has always existed and will always exist... but I never get a reason as to why he exists.

Gravity does not have a purpose or a reason to exist ... it just does. By plugging a god as a cause for the existence of gravity you have only moved the question back one step further ... but the question is still there. Why does a god exist?

The fallacy you are committing here is called Special Pleading btw.
Where you suggest that everything requires a cause except for this one thing that doesn't.

And if you believe in Evolution, at some point you have to ask yourself who or what set this process in motion.

It's called Abiogenesis.

Has it always existed like this? As determined, Scientist have determined The Bang as the focal point. But absolutely nothing has any relevance for purpose.

The big bang event is as far back as science can take us at this time... and there is no evidence to suggest that it had any purpose.

And if there doesn't need to be any purpose, then I guess I could have been no better or worse having not heard of it in the first place. So it really doesn't matter at all.

It matters if you give a crap about what's real and what's actually true. Reality is what it is ... and it matters to me to know the truth about the origin of our universe is and its ultimate fate. The big bang theory is the best we have at this point in time.

So if History repeats itself as it has shown us. All of this knowledge is useless in the long run because no one would exist to utilize this knowledge. And things may or may not start all over from the beginning again. Who knows...?

It's useful to us now. It's useful to humanity for as long as it exists. When life ceases to exist in the universe, it won't matter anymore.

Just because something won't matter in the far future doesn't mean it doesn't matter now.

Scientists can put the comma where ever they want. At any given point, that can change to.

The scientific method is a self-correcting process. As we learn more and more about the universe we correct our theories and make them more and more accurate over time. What's wrong with that?

It's better than plugging in some supernatural god and then assume that it requires no further explanation. Then there's no point in trying to discover anything new is there?

No, I don't feel their explanations are magic. Really smart dudes in their fields actually. But seriously, there are still species living on this planet that we have not discovered and yet here we are trying to explain existence w/ the immaculate Big Bang theory. Money would be better served feeding to poor and sheltering the homeless.

For that matter, I could say that the money you spent on this computer your're typing on would be better spent feeding the poor.

You clearly don't understand the benefits of furthering our understanding of cosmology and quantum physics as an investment into our future. If we learn to convert energy into matter one day we may very well be able to house and feed all the poor. If we learn to harness atomic energy in a way that is safe, clean and renewable we may eliminate pollution one day. We may very well beat death on day via genetic engineering and populate other planets and solar systems in the far future. Science is our only hope of improving ourselves and our quality of life.

Do you realize that the vegetation on this planet is not nearly as nutritious as it once were. Or at least what is being fed to people with all the pesticides and preservatives. It pales in comparison to what was being produced naturally in nutritious value 50 years ago.

The food industry is not perfect... but overall life expectancy has been steadily going up and the percentage of the population dying from disease has gone steadily down.

Here's a source:
http://www.efmoody.com/estate/lifeexpectancy.html

You can thank science for that.

And about prayer...
This is something that is personal between you and GOD yourself.     

Corrected the above sentence... because really that what prayer is ... a person talking to him/herself.

1.	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_mortality

[Omen]

Special pleading;

How do you determine anything if you can't determine what is true in a manner that is inseparable from what is false?

Method...? Your method or GODS...?

Since you admit that you cannot determine anything to be true and argue to reduce 'knowledge' to being meaningless, you can't provide any answer or any suggestion.  You don't even possess the means to determine your own assertions from random make believe.

How do you determine anything if you can't determine what is true in a manner that is inseparable from what is false?

What 'god' could you possibly know, that again you'd be able to distinguish as a truth claim, in order to determine anything?

[jynnan tonnix]

I'm not here to proselytize. I can't change your mind nor can I make you a believer. It is not my job to convince you or anyone that GOD exists. I was simply relaying my experience since some of you were kind enough to share yours. I don't base my believing in GOD just on this. My evidence is personal to me and to me only. I could tell you until I was blue in the face but that won't change anything.

I get this...I really do. I think, though, that you, and other theists who tell us the same thing would fare much better here if they would only be willing to say something like, "I understand that many people have had feelings industinguishable from mine in response to other stimuli which have nothing supernatural about them at all, and while I choose to believe that my feelings are a result of god's spirit moving in my life, I concede that I may be entirely wrong about this".

Is it so impossible to keep an open mind and understand that what you have experienced and attributed to god could just as easily have come about through a mixture of self and/or mass hypnosis phenomena along with various events which might have been coincidental?

[Omen]

Actually, it can answer many of them, you're just trying to make up questions for the unknown that don't exist.  Also, as I pointed out before, it is a false dichotomy and has nothing to do with atheism.  You've specifically set yourself up to be against intellectualism and attack the foundations of the ability to 'know' anything, because you don't want to be faced with the emotional conflict that your religious myth ( christianity ) is false.  So you try to reduce the ability to know to a point where you can't know anything.  It is intellectually dishonest on your part and morally unconscionable that you would ever project it upon others.

I'm sorry but LOL....

This isn't a rebuttal and this does not answer my post.

You appear to be a smart fellow. Quit lying to yourself will ya.

I mean really, I'm not against scientific theory.

You blithely and dismissively described the 'big bang' in a manner that suggests that you don't even know what the big bang is, you also supposed it in a context of a false dichotomy as if the big bang had anything to do with atheism.  You have also argued to the point of reducing the ability to 'know' anything to a point where one can't claim to know anything.  This is fundamentally anti-intellectual and anti-scientific.  You can't claim to be a christian without denying some portions of history and science.

But I don't swallow everything they're feeding me. Kinda like you guys attacking my faith.

We are attacking your ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.  You can call it faith.

Didn't the Hadron Collider just discover 2 new particles that blows the past 60+ years of Molecular Science out of the water.

What are you even responding too?

Are you saying that science making discoveries somehow contradicts science?

You do realize.. science is a methodology, who's purpose is to gain knowledge.. by doing things like discovering new particles?

This is precisely the kind of dogmatic anti-scientific nonsense you're promoting.  Your last statement doesn't even logically follow, it is a pure non-sequitur.  The constraints of what science is and the possibility of discovering new things using science.. have nothing to do with contradicting each other.    It is almost as if you don't understand that science DOESN'T make absolute truth claims and yet you treat it as if it did.  Then you immediately go reference a new discovery that changes something in science.. as if that meant anything.  What are you even talking about?

If you are not anti-science why did you make a dismissive anti-science strawman?

[Omen]

Yes I see your point. First off, I am not GOD and do not pretend to be

You repeatedly speak for god as if you are god and you specifically argue to reduce the ability to know anything to a point where one can't know anything.  So it really leaves no other possibility, you behave as if you are a mouth piece for a supernatural omnipotent 'being' while at the same time downplaying any question of your sincerity/honesty/sanity and responding to every statement based on your own assumed authority.  Many of your posts are arrogant and condescending, you offer nothing to support your own claims and are totally indifferent to your own blatantly false assertions.

[velkyn]

As to why GOD would allow certain things to happen. IDK

  oh gee, one more idiot theist who wants to claim that they know all about God but when the hard questions come,  gee, they don't know anything.  How convenient, you want to claim that God loves, but when yuo are shown evidence that this god doesn't love and doesn't even exist, you  suddenly claim ignorance.  and dear, I know what love is, and your claims and your god ain't it.

As for love conquering all, that is such vapid bullshit.  Love didn't stop the holocaust, war did.  Love doesn't cure disease, hard work by scientists does. 

[caveat_imperator]

I mean really, I'm not against scientific theory.

I don't believe you. Quit lying to yourself will ya?

[screwtape]

Where did you come up with vegetation bot being as nutritious as it once was?  You do understand that's not even possible, right?

actually, that's kind of true.  It is possible if the production of fruit/ vegetables exceeds the rate at which nutrients are returned to the ground.  Kind of farming 101.  It is why crops are rotated and why fertilizer is used.  However, current fertilizer is aimed only at a couple of specific compounds, mainly nitrates.  Other elements are ignored. 

Some articles on it:
http://usfoodpolicy.blogspot.com/2009/01/evidence-on-declining-fruit-and.html  a blog with links to study
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37396355/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/  msnbc article

Scientific American also had an article, but their site was shut down for maintenance. I did not get to read it.  The link may work later:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss

[NHB]

Thanks screw..I will read the links.

But I still stand by my statement that modern farming methods are have improves humans quality of life, not the other way around.

Athletics and nutrition has been my job for over 20 years. I have heard everything from the "Organic myths" on down the line.   

It's the idea that things were better in the "good ole days" that I find humorous and not based in reality.

[screwtape]

But I still stand by my statement that modern farming methods are have improves humans quality of life, not the other way around.

Over the short term, unquestionably.  The question is whether it is sustainable and whether the planet really needs 7+ billion people.  Maybe 2 billion[1] is better for the planet?

It's the idea that things were better in the "good ole days" that I find humorous and not based in reality.

I think it's a mixed bag.  I think there have been improvements in some areas and setbacks in other areas.  I suggest the book In Defense of Food by Pollan.

enough of my sidetrack from the OP.

1.	or whatever