Author Topic: Why are u questioning God ? We are nothing without Him and He loves you [#2641]  (Read 1665 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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[MODERATOR'S NOTE: This post was received in the Mailbag as a response to #2640 and was written by the same author.  This happens from time to time, and ordinarily, I write back to the author and ask him/her to join the forum and post replies there, then I do not post the email.  I am making an exception in this case due to the content of the response for reasons that I assume will be self-evident.  I am notifying the author of the post, as usual.  However, I am also informing him that no further emails from him will be posted in the forums and telling him that he should join the forums to reply here instead.]

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Hi all

I know alot of you have been hurt by hypocritical christians or have not had questions answered by God,we are not born an atheist or a Christian it is by choice.
All i can say is  i Love you all even though we have differences,I am sharing what God has done for me as he has been ever faithful,through my very tough times and always.

Jesus loves you.
Nothing we say or do will change how God feels about us !
He hates the sin in our lives but he does not hate us.

Life is but a vapor but there are eternal consequences to our choices.
Below is a letter which you all can read .

I love you all.

An Atheist Professor of Philosophy was speaking to his Class on the problem Science has with GOD, the ALMIGHTY. He asked one of his new Christian students to stand

Professor : You are a Christian, aren't you, son?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor : So, you believe in GOD?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Professor : Is GOD good?

Student : Sure.

Professor : Is GOD ALL - POWERFUL?

Student : Yes.

Professor : My Brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn't. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

(Student was silent)

Professor : You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is GOD Good?

Student : Yes.

Professor : Is Satan good?

Student : No.

Professor : Where does Satan come from?

Student : From...GOD...

Professor : That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this World?

Student : Yes.

Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Professor : So who created evil?

(Student did not answer)

Professor : Is there Sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor : So, who created them?

(Student had no answer)

Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe The World around you. Tell me, son...have you ever feen GOD?

Student : No, sir.

Professor : Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?

Student : No, sir.

Professor : Have you ever Felt your GOD, Tasted your GOD, Smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of GOD for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Professor : Yet you still believe in HIM?

Student : Yes.

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.

Professor : Yes, Faith. And that is the problem Science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat?

Professor : Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as Cold?

Professor : Yes.

Student : No, sir. There isn't...

(The Lecture Theatre became very quiet with this turn of events)

Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat, a Little Heat or No Heat. But we don't have anything called Cold. We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that.

There is no such thing as Cold. Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat.
We cannot Measure Cold. Heat is Energy. Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it.

(There was pin-drop dilence in the Lecture Theatre)

Student : What about Darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as Darkness?

Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness?

Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the Absence of Something. You can have Low Light, Normal Light, Bright Light, Flashing Light... But if you have No Light constantly, you have nothing and its called Darkness, isn't it? In reality, Darkness isn't. If it is, you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you?

Professor : So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student : Sir, my point is, your Philosophical Premise is flawed.

Professor : Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality. You argue

There is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD. You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought. It uses Electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing. Death is Not the Opposite of Life, just the Absence of it.

Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your Students that they evolved from a Monkey?

Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and cannot even prove that this Process is an On-Going Endeavor are you not teaching your Opinion, sir? Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher?

(The Class was in uproar)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The Class broke out into laughter)

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The Room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable)

Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.

Student : That is it sir...Exactly!
The Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Alive and Moving.

That student was ALBERT EINSTEIN.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Online One Above All

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@#2640/2641:
Lies, condescending behaviour, "I know things about you by magic", false story with appeal to authority and general idiocy.
You won't convince anyone with those. Try again.

@pianodwarf:
As I said in my +1, good call not inviting him here.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline free

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Now of course we all know that story is crap and was not Albert Einstein.

Kudos for not inviting such a fool, who is happy with falsified semantics arguments in absence of real discourse.

Offline pianodwarf

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Quote
I know alot of you have been hurt by hypocritical christians

Probably all of us have at one point or another.  Hypocritical Christians are widespread.

Quote
or have not had questions answered by God

Being atheists, we don't expect Yahweh to answer us.

Quote
we are not born an atheist or a Christian it is by choice.

Actually, it's mostly a matter of childhood indoctrination.

Quote
All i can say is  i Love you all even though we have differences

Stop that.  Seriously.  When a complete stranger tells me he loves me, I get tremendously creeped out.  It makes me look around to make sure my gun is within arm's reach.

Quote
I am sharing what God has done for me as he has been ever faithful,through my very tough times and always.

How do you know that it was Yahweh who did [whatever] for you?

Quote
Life is but a vapor but there are eternal consequences to our choices.

What consequences?

Quote
Below is a letter which you all can read

Yes, most of us are familiar with that particular piece of fiction.  I believe it was originally a Chick Tract, although I'd have to look it up to be sure (it definitely sounds like a Chick Tract, anyway).  Regardless of its origins, however, you will find that no one here is impressed.  We wouldn't even be impressed if the story were true, which it isn't.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline pianodwarf

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Actually, as I said in the OP, I did invite him here, as I do with all authors whose emails I post here... after all, it's only fair that they should have a chance to respond to any responses they receive to their posts.  However, I'm not expecting him to join.  Apart from the fact that few do in any event, the standard "form letter" that all emailers receive includes a link to the registration page, and people such as this one disregard it and write directly back to the email address instead -- a clear indication that they're unwilling, for whatever reason, to engage the forums.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Online One Above All

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Actually, as I said in the OP, I did invite him here, as I do with all authors whose emails I post here...

I might have skimmed your green text and misunderstood that part... &)
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline kevinagain

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Quote
Life is but a vapor but there are eternal consequences to our choices.

interesting to read that imagery here on WWGHA. it's very reminiscent of a discussion in wisdom:

Quote
Wis 2:2  For we are born at all adventure: and we shall be hereafter as though we had never been: for the breath in our nostrils is as smoke, and a little spark in the moving of our heart:
Wis 2:3  Which being extinguished, our body shall be turned into ashes, and our spirit shall vanish as the soft air,
Wis 2:4  And our name shall be forgotten in time, and no man shall have our works in remembrance, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, that is driven away with the beams of the sun, and overcome with the heat thereof.


don't usually see that stuff here, from either side of the discussions.


Offline Aaron123

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have not had questions answered by God,

What does it say about you god if he fails to answer questions?


Quote
we are not born an atheist or a Christian it is by choice.

So what are born as?


Quote
Below is a letter which you all can read .

I love you all.

An Atheist Professor of Philosophy was speaking to his Class on the problem Science has with GOD, the ALMIGHTY. He asked one of his new Christian students to stand
*snips rest of story

Pushing aside that this story is made-up, pushing aside the appeal to authority... the 'resolution' of the story fails to address the professor central question about the problem of evil.  It tries to dismiss the problem by saying "evil is the absent of good(god)".  That just raises more questions; why would your god be absent from this world?  Why not work to remove evil, instead of being "absent"?  Is god lazy?   Beside, the bible states that your god creates evil, so why is this even a debate?[1]
 1. rhetorical question
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Historicity

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Yes, most of us are familiar with that particular piece of fiction.  I believe it was originally a Chick Tract, although I'd have to look it up to be sure (it definitely sounds like a Chick Tract, anyway).  Regardless of its origins, however, you will find that no one here is impressed.  We wouldn't even be impressed if the story were true, which it isn't.

Not a Chick Tract.  I am a big Jack Chick fan.  I read all his tracts and look forward to every new one.  I have even read the ones he wrote that are so f*#*ing embarrassing even to him that he has withdrawn them.

The use of the straw man such as a college professor (of science apparently since he teaches evolution) who doesn't know what heat is, does sound like the straw men of Chick tracts.

But Einstein was Jewish and Chick tracts usually end with a sudden conversion to Jack Chick's version of Protestantism or with the unbeliever going to Hell.  The prof vs Einstein wouldn't fit. 

Offline Brakeman

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Does the author of the op ever link to the rest of the story, where Albert Einstein follows christ's great commission and gives up the science field of physics and becomes a priest to go on and fondle alter boys?  Why would all spend his time thinking about physics theories when all he needed to do was read and study the bible where all knowledge and wisdom is borne?

I guess that Einstein feller was a bit dumb, wasn't he..
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Offline MadBunny

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Quote from: Christian Email forwarder
Hi all

I know alot of you have been hurt by hypocritical christians or have not had questions answered by God,we are not born an atheist or a Christian it is by choice.
All i can say is  i Love you all even though we have differences,I am sharing what God has done for me as he has been ever faithful,through my very tough times and always.

Jesus loves you.
Nothing we say or do will change how God feels about us !
He hates the sin in our lives but he does not hate us.

Life is but a vapor but there are eternal consequences to our choices.
Below is a letter which you all can read .

I love you all.

Hello Christian person.  I would like to thank you for forwarding that fake story to us.  We've only seen it a few thousand times. 

Though I doubt you will join our forum, I suspect it will be too 'intense' for someone of your limited faculties, I would suggest that in the future when you get stories like that forwarded to your email, perhaps from your friends, perhaps from your grandmother; go to a site called "snopes.com" and look them up.

Also, I would like to take this time to advise you to cease all communication with that prince/banker/attorney in Nigeria.  They are not trying to get you any lost millions of dollars, they are scammers.  They will try to scam you for money.

Here, have some internet snake oil.


Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline grant

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A 2 second google of Einsteins religious beliefs come up with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein's_religious_views

Do you really think the members of this forum are so stupid that we'd just believe that story?

Or are you really that stupid that you believed it yourself?

Either way it makes it very hard to take seriously anything you could possibly come up with.
What if the hokey pokey is what its all about?

Offline pianodwarf

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Yes, most of us are familiar with that particular piece of fiction.  I believe it was originally a Chick Tract, although I'd have to look it up to be sure (it definitely sounds like a Chick Tract, anyway).  Regardless of its origins, however, you will find that no one here is impressed.  We wouldn't even be impressed if the story were true, which it isn't.

Not a Chick Tract.  I am a big Jack Chick fan.  I read all his tracts and look forward to every new one.  I have even read the ones he wrote that are so f*#*ing embarrassing even to him that he has withdrawn them.

Ah, OK, thanks for the information.  (Unfortunately for you ;-) you're now going to be called on as an SME regarding Chick Tracts, here...)

Quote
The use of the straw man such as a college professor (of science apparently since he teaches evolution) who doesn't know what heat is, does sound like the straw men of Chick tracts.

So you saw how I was drawn in that direction, then.  If illustrations had been included, I wouldn't have had any doubts, but with only the text to work with...

Quote
But Einstein was Jewish and Chick tracts usually end with a sudden conversion to Jack Chick's version of Protestantism or with the unbeliever going to Hell.  The prof vs Einstein wouldn't fit.

I'm not familiar enough with Chick Tracts to know that.  My main experience with them is with the "anti-evolution" tract, which does not end with the professor going to hell.  Now that you've explained that, though... I think I'd better download copies of all the tracts and review them.  It appears that I'm not as familiar with them as I should be.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Astreja

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Life is but a vapor but there are eternal consequences to our choices.

The only "eternal consequence" that I'm aware of is that once we die we tend to stay dead.
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Offline Historicity

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I'm not familiar enough with Chick Tracts to know that.  My main experience with them is with the "anti-evolution" tract, which does not end with the professor going to hell.  Now that you've explained that, though... I think I'd better download copies of all the tracts and review them.  It appears that I'm not as familiar with them as I should be.

Ahhh, but the professor did a quick turnaround and renounced evolution.  True, he didn't get down on his knees and bow his head to the ground as many converts do in Chick tracts, but it's implied you'd see him in church next week.

He has 1 tract with a Jew converting when he finds that it isn't true the Christians are bad, just that Catholics are bad.  "Where's Rabbi Waxman?" is about Jews going to Hell.

He has narrowed his permissible Christian beliefs over the years, condemning to Hell people who deviate.

Offline jaimehlers

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I can see how this story might be enlightening to the letter-writer, but the simple fact is that it isn't very good.  It's clearly a work of drama, than an accurate retelling of actual events.  It doesn't make good points either in philosophy or in science, and the last sentence alluding that the student was Albert Einstein makes it clear that it is an attempt to appeal to a known authority.

Offline Hatter23

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Student : That is it sir...Exactly!
The Link between Man & GOD is FAITH.
That is all that Keeps Things Alive and Moving.

That student was ALBERT EINSTEIN.

People already mentioned the appeal to authority, the fact the Einstein had no belief in a personal god, let me point out one thing:

Who was writing down this conversation, word for word, not knowing Einstein was going to be famous one day?

Get one thing through your thick skull: WE ARE NOT CREDULOUS.

And that's for all theists observing this post. We are not credulous, stop bothering with arguments that involve unsupported assertions, appeals to ignorance, and circular reasoning. Don't you get it? We are skeptics. Think about approaching up as if someone was trying to convince you that they were a wizard, a real spell casting wizard.

For proof:
Would you take their description of their astral battles?
Would you accept that they have studied spell books?
Would you accept they talked about the tales of spell users historically across the globe?
Would you accept some sort of linguistic slight of hand?
Would you accept that their magic works in mysterious ways?
Would you accept that you can't prove they aren't a wizard?

If you wouldn't accept these arguments....don't use their equivalent on us!


 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 03:24:00 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline jaimehlers

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People already mentioned the appeal to authority, the fact the Einstein had no belief in a personal god, let me point out one thing:

Who was writing down this conversation, word for word, not knowing Einstein was going to be famous one day?

Get one thing through your thick skull: WE ARE NOT CREDULOUS.

And that's for all theists observing this post. We are not credulous, stop bothering with arguments that involve unsupported assertions, appeals to ignorance, and circular reasoning. Don't you get it? We are skeptics. Think about approaching up as if someone was trying to convince you that they were a wizard, a real spell casting wizard.

For proof:
Would you take their description of their astral battles?
Would you accept that they have studied spell books?
Would you accept they talked about the tales of spell users historically across the globe?
Would you accept some sort of linguistic slight of hand?
Would you accept that their magic works in mysterious ways?
Would you accept that you can't prove they aren't a wizard?

If you wouldn't accept these argument....don't use their equivalent on us!
Or, to sum this up in four words:  Show us the evidence.

I'd like to invite the letter writer to read Pyramid Scheme, by Eric Flint.  Even though it's fictional, it well-illustrates why being credulous is a bad thing.  Also, it's free to read.

Offline Samuelxcs

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If god didn't create us, we could also be something else. Who or what made him? Also, being nothing is a great thing anyway.
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Offline Energized

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There is Life and then there is Death, a Good GOD and a Bad GOD. You are viewing the Concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought. It uses Electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing. Death is Not the Opposite of Life, just the Absence of it.

I have tried to discuss this concept with The Chosen so many times and it never goes anywhere.

Look - god created everything, right? That means he created the concept of opposites. So while god sat on his ass and created the universe, he had to come up with a set of rules that the universe would follow. One of these was opposites.

The opposite of light is darkness.
The opposite of reason is religion.
The opposite of sweet is salty.
The opposite of good is evil.
Etc..

And thus, he created it.

God could have said, "You know what? The opposite of good is banana sundaes. Yea, whenever I exit-eth the scene, a gigantic-eth Banana Sundae will appear-eth!"

Instead, he decided the opposite to himself (goodness) would be evil.

If that wasn't clear enough, let's try this: Imagine I am a web designer. I design my page so it has a link. When you click on it, I would have to have programed what happens when you click that link. I can tell it to do any number of things or I can simply leave it blank. The point is, I have to tell it what to do based on your choice.

If you click the link and something other than what I told it to occurs, should I take the credit for it? Moreover, I wouldn't be omnipotent then, would I?

So! God decided the opposite of goodness was going to be evil, ranging from starving children in North Korean orphanages to a kid slowly poisoning his siblings because it's fun. Oh, and he'll let it continue so long as it conforms to his will.

Sir (or madam), if your god was real, I would do everything I could to kill it.


That student was ALBERT EINSTEIN.

Bullshit.

E.
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Bringing torment and pain to others.
O damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps it is time to die?'

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Offline screwtape

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One of these was opposites.

The opposite of light is darkness.
The opposite of reason is religion.
The opposite of sweet is salty.
The opposite of good is evil.
Etc..

Just a quibble, are you sure about that opposites thing? 

I think opposites are a product of simplistic thinking and ignorance.  For example, light is an electromagnetic wave (or a particle, depending how you look at it).  Really, what is the opposite of that? I cannot even conceive how the concept of opposite even makes any sense. Or what is the opposite of man?  Woman?  Boy?  Animal?  Any of those.  None of those.

Opposites should not even be taught to children.  It just confuses them later in life.

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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline jaimehlers

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Even things like positive and negative charges aren't really opposites.  They're attractive to each other, but a proton isn't the opposite of an electron.  We might call them opposite charges for simplicity's sake, but that's really not a good term.

Offline Energized

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One of these was opposites.

The opposite of light is darkness.
The opposite of reason is religion.
The opposite of sweet is salty.
The opposite of good is evil.
Etc..

Just a quibble, are you sure about that opposites thing? 

I think opposites are a product of simplistic thinking and ignorance.  For example, light is an electromagnetic wave (or a particle, depending how you look at it).  Really, what is the opposite of that? I cannot even conceive how the concept of opposite even makes any sense. Or what is the opposite of man?  Woman?  Boy?  Animal?  Any of those.  None of those.

Opposites should not even be taught to children.  It just confuses them later in life.

I was trying to tailor my reply to the, uh, "level" of the letter writer.

I could have chosen tuna is the opposite of chicken, though. That might have been better.

E. 
'O pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
O damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps it is time to die?'

~Enma Ai, Jigoku Shoujo

Offline Graybeard

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That student was ALBERT EINSTEIN.
No it wasn't, it was made up by some lame-brain. The real moral of the story is that Christians are gullible and will believe anything... and usually do.

You believe in talking snakes with legs, don't you... yet you do not accept evolution.

You believe some invisible sky-pixie magicked people out of mud, and you find "Intelligent Design" to be a good theory.

You think that there was a boat with a pair (at least) of every one of the 8 million species on earth on board, yet you know that such a boat cannot be built of wood.

I applaud your lack of knowledge and reason. I rejoice in the fact that you cannot use your own common sense. I am pleased that you think that Bronze Age peasants had the solution to life, yet could not prevent measles.  Were it not for people like you, I would feel stupid from time to time.

Take the Graybeard test - be an atheist for 3 months: you'll never waste money on tithing again.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”