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Offline jtp56

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Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« on: December 30, 2011, 06:23:38 PM »
In recent news they have discovered planets to be in the habitable zone.  Please, on your own time, research what these observations actually consist of.  Anyway, my question is how long did the Big Bang take?  Was it an instantaneous event like a bomb exploding?  Or did it take a few million years to happen? 

If it was more instantaneous like a bomb, does that make the whole universe the same age?

If it is the same age, then galaxies way out there on the edge are the same age as us right?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 06:37:15 PM »
The Big Bang began before 10^43. The universe is still expanding, so I guess you can say it is still banging.




ADDED: I ain't no genius, but I thot I'd take a stab at that question based on what I think I know.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 06:40:01 PM by monkeymind »
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 06:42:26 PM »
Energy is being converted to matter all the time, so not everything is the same age in the universe.
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 06:43:52 PM »
The Big Bang began before 10^43. The universe is still expanding, so I guess you can say it is still banging.




ADDED: I ain't no genius, but I thot I'd take a stab at that question based on what I think I know.

I don't see a problem with your answer.  It is still banging.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 06:47:20 PM »
Energy is being converted to matter all the time, so not everything is the same age in the universe.

This is the theory general relativity was supposed to disprove.  So you disagree with Einstein?

Loaded question I know.  Another article I read stated that they discovered sub-atomic particles launched from CERN traveling faster than the speed of light, which, totally blows Einstein out of the water.  Therefore, you may be totally correct.  Whatever.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline grant

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What if the hokey pokey is what its all about?

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2011, 06:50:37 PM »
Hah!  Back at ya!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Big_Bang

I know, I know, I usually critique use of Wiki, but in this case they make my point.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 06:55:29 PM »
I'm right if your a steady stater, I may be wrong if you're a big banger.
I'm right if pair-production is true...I'm probably  wrong if your theist.


I thot you already had an answer and was just baiting. That's why I admitted I'm not a science genius.
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2011, 06:58:49 PM »
GIYF

http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm

In your post they state: "As more observations are made and more research conducted, the Big Bang theory becomes more complete and our knowledge of the origins of the universe more substantial."

So my question is: Is it complete?  Do you have it figured out?  And this is based upon who's theory?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 06:59:03 PM »
Quote
but in this case they make my point.
There's a point? Do share.

Offline Emily

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2011, 07:01:26 PM »
The Big Bang began before 10^43. The universe is still expanding, so I guess you can say it is still banging.


there's a sexy overtone to that message.
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

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Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2011, 07:03:56 PM »
I'm right if your a steady stater, I may be wrong if you're a big banger.
I'm right if pair-production is true...I'm probably  wrong if your theist.


I thot you already had an answer and was just baiting. That's why I admitted I'm not a science genius.

For crying out loud monkeymind, you know me....."In the beginning, God created......"  and the last word is "Amen".
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2011, 07:07:03 PM »
Quote
but in this case they make my point.
There's a point? Do share.

Read my Wiki post.  Scientists don't know for sure.  They are still looking.  But!!!!  It couldn't have been created, it's not scientific!  The conundrum I'm dealing with here.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2011, 07:07:57 PM »
The Big Bang began before 10^43. The universe is still expanding, so I guess you can say it is still banging.


there's a sexy overtone to that message.

That's what she said.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 07:09:34 PM »
The Big Bang began before 10^43. The universe is still expanding, so I guess you can say it is still banging.


there's a sexy overtone to that message.

That's what she said.

Hopefully the Big Bang takes longer!
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2011, 07:10:24 PM »
Jtp56, there is a thread up right now that might be interesting to you, then, re: the age of the Earth:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21065.0.html
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Offline wright

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2011, 07:15:58 PM »

In your post they state: "As more observations are made and more research conducted, the Big Bang theory becomes more complete and our knowledge of the origins of the universe more substantial."

So my question is: Is it complete?  Do you have it figured out?  And this is based upon who's theory?

The Big Bang is currently the best theory for the start of the universe; it has the most observations backing it up.

Is it complete? No; a given theory is rarely considered "complete" in science, which you should really know by now.

I certainly don't have it figured out, and if any cosmologists out there do I don't think they've announced it yet.

The wiki article lays out the primary theorists who've contributed to the BBT...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang In brief, Georges Lemaitre formed some of the key ideas and hypotheses first and observations by Hubble, Herman, Gamow and many others have confirmed those key points.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2011, 07:35:09 PM »
Jtp56, there is a thread up right now that might be interesting to you, then, re: the age of the Earth:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21065.0.html

I'll go there, be back in a minute.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2011, 07:41:23 PM »

In your post they state: "As more observations are made and more research conducted, the Big Bang theory becomes more complete and our knowledge of the origins of the universe more substantial."

So my question is: Is it complete?  Do you have it figured out?  And this is based upon who's theory?

The Big Bang is currently the best theory for the start of the universe; it has the most observations backing it up.

Is it complete? No; a given theory is rarely considered "complete" in science, which you should really know by now.

I certainly don't have it figured out, and if any cosmologists out there do I don't think they've announced it yet.

The wiki article lays out the primary theorists who've contributed to the BBT...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang In brief, Georges Lemaitre formed some of the key ideas and hypotheses first and observations by Hubble, Herman, Gamow and many others have confirmed those key points.

So is it a theory, albeit the best one?  We need to define proof vs. theory vs. 1+1=1, or whatever (drop argument [another post]).  Which, if my study of scientific history reflects, the scientific method was postulated for a reason?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jetson

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2011, 07:43:46 PM »
The BBT is the best theory we have of how the universe appears to have come into the state we see it in right now.  It is described as an expansion, as opposed to an explosion.  The galaxies, solar systems, stars and planets that we can see and measure, are a result of a very long process - part of which has the gravity component which helped shape planets into spheres - from my understanding.

Anyway, the objects within our solar system are of different ages, so we can say that some planets, stars, galaxies, etc., are older or younger than others.  Every object was not created simultaneously.

Are you excited about the exoplanets?  I know I am!

Offline Emily

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2011, 07:53:13 PM »

So is it a theory, albeit the best one?

Have you got a better theory?

Quote
  We need to define proof vs. theory vs. 1+1=1, or whatever (drop argument [another post]).  Which, if my study of scientific history reflects, the scientific method was postulated for a reason?

What parts of the big bang theory don't follow the scientific method?

Sensing this is a strawman argument, do you understand the scientific definition of the scientific word theory?

If not, here's a good definition for you...

Theory
A scientifically testable general principle or body of principles offered to explain observed phenomena. In scientific usage, a theory is distinct from a hypothesis (or conjecture) that is proposed to explain previously observed phenomena. For a hypothesis to rise to the level of theory, it must predict the existence of new phenomena that are subsequently observed. A theory can be overturned if new phenomena are observed that directly contradict the theory.


http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/site/glossary.html

Oh shit, I took that from the WMAP website. The site that is working COBE on publishing findings on the background radiation that was left over from the big bang.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 08:01:32 PM by Emily »
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Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2011, 08:05:25 PM »
The BBT is the best theory we have of how the universe appears to have come into the state we see it in right now.  It is described as an expansion, as opposed to an explosion.  The galaxies, solar systems, stars and planets that we can see and measure, are a result of a very long process - part of which has the gravity component which helped shape planets into spheres - from my understanding.

Anyway, the objects within our solar system are of different ages, so we can say that some planets, stars, galaxies, etc., are older or younger than others.  Every object was not created simultaneously.

Are you excited about the exoplanets?  I know I am!

For us to survive on earth, we need all the "evolved" species.  The observational evidence of the exoplanets are that they are either to big (a gas ball) or too small (an inferno).

The earth is teeming with life!  Are the exoplanets?

Don't abandon your faith!   These observations are within our own galaxy.  There are billions upon billions of........(whatever) to hang your hat on.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Emily

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2011, 08:14:35 PM »
All an exoplanet is is a planet observed outside of our solar system. Based in its position and according to its home stars composition it is possible for life to exist on some. It may not be known if there is life yet because out telescopes aren't strong to view the minuscule happenings on that planet. That planets composition might be seen, but whether or not life is there is yet to be discovered.

It's like when you're flying on a plane. A takeoff you see people walking into the airport, and as you soar higher you see cars, but the higher you go, and the further you are from the surface, you just don't see the people because your eyes aren't strong enough. You can see the structure of the surface (like the formation of the lands, the buildings, the roads), but what is inhabiting the surface isn't seen.
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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2011, 08:34:41 PM »

So is it a theory, albeit the best one?

Have you got a better theory?

Quote
  We need to define proof vs. theory vs. 1+1=1, or whatever (drop argument [another post]).  Which, if my study of scientific history reflects, the scientific method was postulated for a reason?

What parts of the big bang theory don't follow the scientific method?

Sensing this is a strawman argument, do you understand the scientific definition of the scientific word theory?

If not, here's a good definition for you...

Theory
A scientifically testable general principle or body of principles offered to explain observed phenomena. In scientific usage, a theory is distinct from a hypothesis (or conjecture) that is proposed to explain previously observed phenomena. For a hypothesis to rise to the level of theory, it must predict the existence of new phenomena that are subsequently observed. A theory can be overturned if new phenomena are observed that directly contradict the theory.


http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/site/glossary.html

Oh shit, I took that from the WMAP website. The site that is working COBE on publishing findings on the background radiation that was left over from the big bang.
\

Sooooo, the Big bang was observed?  Please, please, re-read you own post.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline wright

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2011, 08:39:00 PM »

For us to survive on earth, we need all the "evolved" species.  The observational evidence of the exoplanets are that they are either to big (a gas ball) or too small (an inferno).

Actually, there was a recent discovery of the smallest exoplanets yet... http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/12/20/another-kepler-milestone-astronomers-find-two-earth-sized-planets-orbiting-the-same-star/#more-42159

These particular bodies are just slightly smaller and larger than Earth. And as noted, they are hardly Earth-like. But the conditions under which life arose here aren't unique: not our sun, not the chemicals present in our solar system, nor planets our size and composition.

Quote
The earth is teeming with life!  Are the exoplanets?


We don't know... yet. But considering we didn't know for certain that our solar system wasn't unique a few decades ago, finding a life-bearing exoplanet seems a better and better bet within the next few decades. And the tenacity of life on Earth gives me additional hope for its presence elsewhere in the universe.

Quote
Don't abandon your faith!   These observations are within our own galaxy.  There are billions upon billions of........(whatever) to hang your hat on.

I abandoned my faith in god about six years back. I prefer things that can actually be proven. I'm pretty sure there is other life out there; the universe is a big place. I'm more concerned about things like the Great Silence... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2011, 08:39:58 PM »
All an exoplanet is is a planet observed outside of our solar system. Based in its position and according to its home stars composition it is possible for life to exist on some. It may not be known if there is life yet because out telescopes aren't strong to view the minuscule happenings on that planet. That planets composition might be seen, but whether or not life is there is yet to be discovered.

It's like when you're flying on a plane. A takeoff you see people walking into the airport, and as you soar higher you see cars, but the higher you go, and the further you are from the surface, you just don't see the people because your eyes aren't strong enough. You can see the structure of the surface (like the formation of the lands, the buildings, the roads), but what is inhabiting the surface isn't seen.

The exoplanets are observed from radio logic receiver disks aimed into space.  Warbles in radiation from distant stars.  I don't deny that these observations are wrong, but....

You are all getting away from my original questions, which no one has answered.  Bottom line, is the universe the same age?"
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Emily

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2011, 08:41:30 PM »

Sooooo, the Big bang was observed?  Please, please, re-read you own post.

Wow, you're an idiot. I never said it was observed, and all I did was give the definition to the word theory. I gave it because I was confused when you said "proof vs theory vs 1+1=1"

 Based on the definition I gave a theory explains observable phenomena.

I mean, look...

A scientifically testable general principle or body of principles offered to explain observed phenomena. In scientific usage, a theory is distinct from a hypothesis (or conjecture) that is proposed to explain previously observed phenomena. For a hypothesis to rise to the level of theory, it must predict the existence of new phenomena that are subsequently observed. A theory can be overturned if new phenomena are observed that directly contradict the theory.

The big bang theory explains how the universe got here. It's the best theory so far.

I ask you before, and you seen to have ignored my question.

Have you got a better theory? By better theory I mean better theory as to how the universe began.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 08:44:11 PM by Emily »
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Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2011, 08:44:07 PM »

For us to survive on earth, we need all the "evolved" species.  The observational evidence of the exoplanets are that they are either to big (a gas ball) or too small (an inferno).

Actually, there was a recent discovery of the smallest exoplanets yet... http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/12/20/another-kepler-milestone-astronomers-find-two-earth-sized-planets-orbiting-the-same-star/#more-42159

These particular bodies are just slightly smaller and larger than Earth. And as noted, they are hardly Earth-like. But the conditions under which life arose here aren't unique: not our sun, not the chemicals present in our solar system, nor planets our size and composition.

Quote
The earth is teeming with life!  Are the exoplanets?


We don't know... yet. But considering we didn't know for certain that our solar system wasn't unique a few decades ago, finding a life-bearing exoplanet seems a better and better bet within the next few decades. And the tenacity of life on Earth gives me additional hope for its presence elsewhere in the universe.

Quote
Don't abandon your faith!   These observations are within our own galaxy.  There are billions upon billions of........(whatever) to hang your hat on.

I abandoned my faith in god about six years back. I prefer things that can actually be proven. I'm pretty sure there is other life out there; the universe is a big place. I'm more concerned about things like the Great Silence... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Why did you abandon your faith in God?  You admit that "We don't know", yet; that "I prefer things that can actually be proven."  Please, please re-read you own post.

I'm confused.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Questions for you scientific geniuses out there.
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2011, 08:59:15 PM »
The Fermi-paradox goes back to my original leading question. Did the universe start as a bang?  I only ask it to make you all think.  Of course the geniuses think it started in a bang!  They talk about how in 1/1000000000th (or whatever) of a second after the big bang that energy/matter was thus  (aka, physics was different then).   I'm fine with that....whatever....don't get me wrong.   

My question is now!  I remember being taught that stars billions of years older than ours become red giants and swallow up their surrounding planets.  Huh?  Aren't all stars the same age?  Are the ones further out older (how) than our sun? 

That's why I addressed this to geniuses.  HELP?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.