Author Topic: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century  (Read 18565 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gill

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Darwins +5/-58
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #145 on: December 30, 2011, 06:15:38 PM »
Ok, but you recognize that the government trying to take away a right is wrong.  But if the government was founded on the premise that it could just give and take rights as needed, then not too many people would probably question such things as the patriot act.  All I'm saying.....

Offline rickymooston

Straight Men who have killed millions through-out the ages
« Reply #146 on: December 30, 2011, 06:16:45 PM »
Straight Men who have killed millions through-out the ages

Have you noticed that people who run pograms and mass murder rallies tend most of the time to have penises?

Let's see:

Hitler had a disfunctional penis as did most of his principle Nazi leaders. Most members of the SS had penises?

Stalin had a dick as did Pot Pol.

Ghenkis Khann had a rooster and used it on many women. We claim he has 2000,000 descendants in Afganistan.

The leader of the Rowandan genocide was apparently a Christian with a penis.

Idi Amin also had a slong, so did Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden, etc, etc.

Now, what is the significance of this? Should all people with penises have their balls crushed?

Or am I just spewing random facts out hoping you will draw idiotic conclusions?

Challenges for karma points -- Women who have caused the murders of many. Evil bitches from
hell ...
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline monkeymind

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2592
  • Darwins +44/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't understand what I know about it!
    • How To Know If You Are A Real Christian
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12247
  • Darwins +270/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #148 on: December 30, 2011, 06:20:45 PM »
Ok, but you recognize that the government trying to take away a right is wrong.

Depends.  I don't think that the government taking freedoms from convicted murderers is wrong.

All the government needs in order to justify removing a right is to cite another priority that people hold more strongly.  Like protecting the rest of the public from the murderer.  Or protecting the public from terrorists.

But if the government was founded on the premise that it could just give and take rights as needed, then not too many people would probably question such things as the patriot act.  All I'm saying.....

Sure they would, because they want those rights.  If they care about the rights in question, then it doesn't matter if they are "natural" or not:  People will fight for them.  Vice versa if people don't care about them.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Samothec

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
  • Darwins +49/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Straight Men who have killed millions through-out the ages
« Reply #149 on: December 30, 2011, 06:23:29 PM »
snipped
Or am I just spewing random facts out hoping you will draw idiotic conclusions?

Challenges for karma points -- Women who have caused the murders of many. Evil bitches from
hell ...

Why would you spew random facts to obscure the issue? Are you trying to usurp Gill?

Murderous women: Elizabeth Bathory - just off the top of my head (several guys pop into my head but you weren't asking for guys)
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline Samothec

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
  • Darwins +49/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #150 on: December 30, 2011, 06:24:41 PM »
Ok, but you recognize that the government trying to take away a right is wrong.  But if the government was founded on the premise that it could just give and take rights as needed, then not too many people would probably question such things as the patriot act.  All I'm saying.....

It is amazing you are backing down from your previous position and simultaneously making an otherwise empty post.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline monkeymind

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2592
  • Darwins +44/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't understand what I know about it!
    • How To Know If You Are A Real Christian
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #151 on: December 30, 2011, 06:31:21 PM »
BTW, I'm not saying sinking Columbus' ships would have been  a good idea. Probably would have just delayed the inevitable. But it wasn't the US at that point anyways, so I didn't see the comment as talking down America.
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline Samothec

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
  • Darwins +49/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #152 on: December 30, 2011, 06:41:11 PM »
BTW, I'm not saying sinking Columbus' ships would have been  a good idea. Probably would have just delayed the inevitable. But it wasn't the US at that point anyways, so I didn't see the comment as talking down America.

The comment wasn't directly about America. I suspect it would only have delayed things by at most a century given the drive to find a more direct route to China. It's more a matter that of all the massacres of recent centuries which one might have the best chance (a bottleneck) where things could be changed.

Many people talk of killing Hitler (if they were sent back in time) but even if you did it before 1930 at the latest, that might not have prevented anything. He wasn't the only anti-semite - heck, plenty of people in America of the time (and unfortunately now too) were also very anti-semitic. And the war provided a devistated Germany with a goal to build itself up. (America wasn't the only country facing economic problems.)
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Straight Men who have killed millions through-out the ages
« Reply #153 on: December 30, 2011, 07:30:37 PM »


Challenges for karma points -- Women who have caused the murders of many. Evil bitches from
hell ...

Only three come to mind:

Eva Peron
Mother Theresa(through deliberate concentration and rejection of treatment)
Catherine the Great(primarily dissenters in lands conquered)

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7276
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #154 on: December 30, 2011, 07:31:23 PM »
Gill - here is a distinction I would like for you to consider.

Do animals such as a giraffe or pelican have natural, or god-given rights?  Let's remove god-given from those animals, since we are fairly sure they do not worship any gods.  So we're left with natural rights.  Do animals that are not human, have any natural rights at all?  If so, what are they, and why, and where did they come from?

Here's my point, and possibly an explanation of where at least some atheists might come from.  Atheists do not believe that humans are any more special than any other animal.  That is usually a distinction reserved to believers, who think that their god created us, separate and distinct from the other animals.  That is simply false. 

And because humans have the highest level of human-defined intelligence, we decided to grant ourselves "rights", regardless of whether we describe them as god-given, or natural.  We "think" we have rights, because we thought of them.  And there may be a naturally good reason to have "rights", but there simply is no guarantee, what with serial killers, rapists, wars, genocides, and lots of other lovely forms of intrusion upon the "rights" of an individual.

But this is why we organize, and make governments, and laws.  We need them.  We would have a harder time staying alive, and surviving, if we just let anarchy reign.  And notice too that over time, we can clearly see the pros and cons of different forms of government.  We can also see the tyranny of forcing ideologies upon people without their consent.  This happens in religious laws, as well as secular.

Anyway, do you see where I'm headed with this?

Offline Historicity

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2350
  • Darwins +80/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • (Rama, avatar of Vishnu)
Re: Straight Men who have killed millions through-out the ages
« Reply #155 on: December 30, 2011, 08:28:40 PM »


Challenges for karma points -- Women who have caused the murders of many. Evil bitches from
hell ...

Only three come to mind:

Eva Peron
Mother Theresa(through deliberate concentration and rejection of treatment)
Catherine the Great(primarily dissenters in lands conquered)

Ilsa Koch, the "She Wolf of the SS".  She introduced the sport of throwing babies into the air and skeet shooting them with Lugers.   She was so bad that finally the SS tried her.


Offline rickymooston

Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #156 on: December 30, 2011, 08:29:18 PM »
Atheists do not believe that humans are any more special than any other animal.

How do you define "special".

Most people, atheist or not, will value human life over the lives of members of other species. I suppose we are biased but biased most of us are.

Humans most definitely are the only species that has recorded knowledge, that creates technologies,
that has art and a number of things.

I assume of course you mean that biologically speaking we are not special in the sense of having some supernatural nature or what not.

I wonder about the Neadrathrals.

"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Historicity

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2350
  • Darwins +80/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • (Rama, avatar of Vishnu)
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #157 on: December 30, 2011, 09:24:08 PM »
I wonder about the Neadrathrals.
Wonder no more.

The Shanidar caves in Iran were occupied by Neanderthals.  Cave dwelling is not all what it is cracked up to be.  The roofs of caves crack and boulders weighing tons can fall.

A 16 year old Neanderthal boy was found buried.  His skull had been crushed.  Murder?  One should had been crushed as a child handicapping him.  Maybe both were falling ceiling rocks.  He could not do a man's work of hunting and killing.  His teeth had the wear of Eskimo women from chewing the edges of hides to ready them to be sewed into seams of leather clothes.  He was an insignificant male given women's work.

A scientist took to study the soil he was buried in for pollen.  This can tell what kind plants lived in the area and the climate, both in general and the season of the burials.  It didn't just have traces of pollen it was packed with pollen.  The pollen of flowers.  As low a status as he had in the macho world of Neanderthals they had loved him and had buried him with flowers.

In 1908 a French paleontologist studied a Neanderthal skeleton and saw what he intended to see.  The skeleton was stooped.  Obviously the Neanderthals were apelike and were sort of knuckle draggers.  He illustrated the Neanderthal with full body hair like an ape and a vicious snarl on his face.  He missed the signs of senile bone disease.  Also, the old man had no teeth left.  The Neanderthals were exclusively meat eaters so someone must have chewed his food for him[1].  He was the old wise man of the tribe. 

In other words he was on Social Security.  The Neanderthals were a bunch of $&#**^% liberals!  That must be why they went extinct.
 
 1. Hamburgers were invented as food for seniors who could no longer chew thru a steak.

Offline Illuminatus99

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
  • Darwins +5/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #158 on: December 30, 2011, 09:50:20 PM »
If I really wanted to mess with columbus I'd spend a few years teaching the natives how to smelt steel, build firearms, and possibly introduce them to heavier-than-air flight. Wouldn't have to sink those ships, just let the natives bomb them from the air.

Offline Samothec

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
  • Darwins +49/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #159 on: December 30, 2011, 09:58:49 PM »
If I really wanted to mess with columbus I'd spend a few years teaching the natives how to smelt steel, build firearms, and possibly introduce them to heavier-than-air flight. Wouldn't have to sink those ships, just let the natives bomb them from the air.

LOL

But from what I know they'd be horrified at what they'd have to do to get the iron: massive mining with the debris poisoning the land and water. If I had some time with them, I'd do my best to explain that the Europeans would not understand them and ignore their needs/desires/rights. And maybe teach them what little I know of toxins and guerilla tactics.      ;)
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2685
  • Darwins +76/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #160 on: December 30, 2011, 11:48:56 PM »
Instead, the atheist likely views everyone as equals. No one is superior, but no one is inferior -

Complete and total subjective fantasy. Maybe YOU would treat people with different beliefs as equals, but you can't say with any sort of  honesty that any or all atheist LIKELY thinks that way.
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12247
  • Darwins +270/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #161 on: December 30, 2011, 11:50:44 PM »
^^ No one is inferior by religious edict, at least.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2685
  • Darwins +76/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #162 on: December 31, 2011, 12:35:08 AM »
^^ No one is inferior by religious edict, at least.

True, all have sinned[1] and fall short of the glory of God. Depending on what your standard of measurement is, Pol Pot was closer to the mark[2] than me.
 1. Missed the mark
 2. Closer to God in body count, therefor less of a sinner
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Online 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4599
  • Darwins +104/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #163 on: December 31, 2011, 12:38:06 AM »
If I really wanted to mess with columbus I'd spend a few years teaching the natives how to smelt steel, build firearms, and possibly introduce them to heavier-than-air flight. Wouldn't have to sink those ships, just let the natives bomb them from the air.
small pox vaccinations would have saved millions
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline rickymooston

Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #164 on: December 31, 2011, 12:38:49 AM »
jaywell, I gave out too much karma today. However, I'd like you to know the footnotes in your posts were awesome
"i had learn to focus i what i could do rather what i couldn't do", Rick Hansen when asked about getting a disabling spinal cord injury at 15. He continues to raise money for spinal cord research and inspire peoople to "make a difference". He doesnt preach any religion.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2685
  • Darwins +76/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #165 on: December 31, 2011, 12:58:20 AM »
jaywell, I gave out too much karma today. However, I'd like you to know the footnotes in your posts were awesome

Thanks, just remember me tomorrow!
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12247
  • Darwins +270/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #166 on: December 31, 2011, 01:07:26 AM »
Quote from: Jaybwell
because we live, we have the right to not yield to tyrants.

Do animals also have the right not to yield to tyrants?  After all, they live.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2685
  • Darwins +76/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #167 on: December 31, 2011, 01:12:46 AM »
small pox vaccinations would have saved millions

Considering the blankets offered as a kindness of charity from the British to the Native Americans and also the Trojan Horse, it is wise to reject gifts from your enemy.
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2685
  • Darwins +76/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #168 on: December 31, 2011, 01:17:29 AM »
Quote from: Jaybwell
because we live, we have the right to not yield to tyrants.

Do animals also have the right not to yield to tyrants?  After all, they live.

Oh sure, they have the right. But do they have the capacity to exercise their rights? Or stand up and organize for their rights?

No.

So, the question is, should WE recognize their rights?

Yes.

Does this have any bearing on OUR natural rights?

No.
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12247
  • Darwins +270/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #169 on: December 31, 2011, 01:24:18 AM »
Alright then.  What gives life, in general, the right to stand up for itself?

I would suggest that the living thing gives itself that right, if it chooses to.  And it can give up that right if it chooses to.  And we can give non-living things the same right, if we so choose, though it won't mean much.

Oh, and what would a life-form that didn't have the right to resist tyranny look like, biologically?  Could you tell the difference?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6404
  • Darwins +757/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #170 on: December 31, 2011, 01:26:19 AM »
Oh, and what would a life-form that didn't have the right to resist tyranny look like, biologically?  Could you tell the difference?

Sheep?
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12247
  • Darwins +270/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #171 on: December 31, 2011, 01:51:19 AM »
Cute.  :)
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2685
  • Darwins +76/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #172 on: December 31, 2011, 01:57:28 AM »
Alright then.  What gives life, in general, the right to stand up for itself?

I don't know what gives life the right to stand up for itself. The only thing I can think of at the moment is something called "survival instinct". In other words, the right to self propagate. But that does not infer that an outside agent assigned life that right.

Quote
I would suggest that the living thing gives itself that right, if it chooses to.

I would agree to a point. The "survival instinct" seems to be more or less encoded into living organisms DNA, so it's not much of a choice.

Quote
And it can give up that right if it chooses to.

Depends on the organism. I can't imagine that a virus or a bacteria or a plant has any choice whatsoever as to what sort of action it will take.


Quote
And we can give non-living things the same right, if we so choose, though it won't mean much.

On the same note, it wouldn't mean much if we refused to grant the rights of limestone to exist.

Quote
Oh, and what would a life-form that didn't have the right to resist tyranny look like, biologically?  Could you tell the difference?

All life forms have the right to resist tyranny. They may or may not have the power to assert their rights but they still have the right none the less. Viruses, regardless of our attempts to assassinate them; resist, adapt, mutate and evolve.

However, if you are asking about what a biological life form without the WILL to resist might look like, I go with sheep. Or cows, they're stupid.




Edit:

Spelling errors and such  :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 02:02:18 AM by jaybwell32 »
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Offline Cyberia

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 907
  • Darwins +35/-0
Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #173 on: December 31, 2011, 01:59:11 AM »
And we can give non-living things the same right, if we so choose, though it won't mean much.

And I would suggest that a non-living thing that demanded or fought for it's "rights" to be "alive"

If an AI starts demanding rights, then it IS alive.  No further test is required, the demand itself is sufficient.
Soon we will judge angels.