Author Topic: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century  (Read 20151 times)

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Offline kin hell

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2011, 11:35:12 PM »

So why waste your time discussing and debating this stuff?  Eat, drink, and be merry!  Go have yourself a party instead of hanging out with a bunch of dead-end, no-real-purpose-in-life accidental blobs of flesh.

Nice.

Of course the alternative is to join the flock.
.....and celebrate the joy of instantly being empowered with a meaning and purpose in life   (AKA.....be a mindless sheep).

Evolution doesn't really deal with the cross species breed that you represent battery hen

chook
sheep
parrot

caged in a Faith
zero need of rationality

fleeced by your owners



you need mulesing
the crutch you hobble yourself with is a shitty alternative to reality.


the lord is your shepherd not mine










"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline MadBunny

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2011, 12:24:50 AM »
Did I miss somewhere in this thread, supposedly about atheists that killed tons of people, where they did it in the name of atheism?

Guilt by association is a shallow fallacy.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline Brakeman

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2011, 12:48:51 AM »
Nah, It's the north hemi-spereians that do all the mass murder. Look it up.
Stalin, Hitler, Alexander the great, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Hutu's, Amin, etc..

All from the North Hemisphere.  I'm telling you, that's a strong correlation!
Help find the cure for FUNDAMENTIA !

Offline dloubet

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2011, 02:02:24 AM »
This subject is so negative! How about the fruits of atheistic science? Wasn't it Norman Borlaug, using the godless scientific method, that is credited with saving the lives of a billion people? That one act wipes out the actions of Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, and what the hell let's throw in Hitler just for fun, and leaves us deeply in negative numbers in any theist/atheist bodycount equation.
Denis Loubet

Offline Astreja

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2011, 02:05:37 AM »
So why waste your time discussing and debating this stuff?  Eat, drink, and be merry!

I'd be a lot merrier if the religious people of this world weren't indoctrinating innocent children with BS mythology that leaves them in terror of hell, raptures and tribulations.  Debunking religious nonsense is a civic duty, not a "waste of time."
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 02:17:40 AM by Astreja »
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Offline One Above All

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2011, 04:00:26 AM »
Debunking religious nonsense is a civic duty, not a "waste of time."

I'm just gonna point out that this is a very good quote for a signature.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2011, 04:27:41 AM »
bm
I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Offline changeling

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2011, 06:10:19 AM »


 I will go on record as saying that I don't believe Hitler was a pure atheist but rather someone with some really weird beliefs in the supernatural.

Isn't that the perfect description of Christianity?
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

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Offline plethora

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2011, 07:05:21 AM »
@gzusfreke

Yes, some people who led regimes that committed genocides were atheists.

So what? A person cannot be motivated merely by lacking belief in something. People are motivated by what they actively believe. After all, I can't recall a single occasion where my lack of belief in the existence of ghosts lead me to take any action of any kind.

In fact, I don't see anyone accusing leaders of having committed crimes against humanity due to a lack of belief in anything other than a god. Why do think that is? Could it be that lacking belief in alien abductions, ghosts and psychic abilities (which millions do believe in) doesn't actually inform a person's actions? Ah.

Those dictators you mentioned were not motivated by a lack of belief in a god. They were motivated by active belief in certain ideologies. These ideologies happened to be non-religious... and I denounce them as much as I denounce religious ideologies.

To sit there and point at 'atheist' murderers, accusing them of being murderers because they were atheists is like pointing out female murderers and accusing them of being murderers merely because they were women. It's an association fallacy.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline gonegolfing

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2011, 08:14:19 AM »
God doesn't exist to judge anybody. All those people are dead and I doubt it's much comfort to them or their loved ones that god is judging them.

So why waste your time discussing and debating this stuff?  Eat, drink, and be merry!  Go have yourself a party instead of hanging out with a bunch of dead-end, no-real-purpose-in-life accidental blobs of flesh.

I don't know about you all, but are we that desperate for discussion that we'll give the time of day to argue with an arrogant little weasel like this guy ??

We should instead--in a very nice way of course-- tell this puffed up ass wipe to go fuck himself.

Cocky ignoramuses like him are just not worth our time IMHO.  ;)
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2011, 08:20:59 AM »
Do you think that Pol Pot and Joe Stalin would have killed just as many people if they were theists?

Yes.  Yes, I do.  In fact, I think they would have killed many more, much faster, and with more support from their populations.  They were nut-jobs.....and it was only their atheism that prevented them being much, much worse.  And it seems you agree.

Theism in itself is not noble or grand.  It can be just as hideous, or more so, than atheism in my eyes.  Belief in a god or gods doesn't mean someone is morally superior to someone who is an agnostic or an atheist.

But the question you have been continually avoiding is why you want to establish causation between "atheist" and "mass-murder", without any attempt to show anything beyond (possible) correlation. 

Like plethora said - Stalin killed millions.  But did he kill millions because he was:

A) An atheist?
B) A Russian?
C) Had a moustache?
D) Ate cabbage?

Unless and until you can show that he killed because of one of those (or another) reason, there is no more sense asking "why did the atheist kill....?" than "why did the sushi-lover kill....?". 

And I know you don't want to discuss it - and I can see why - but the reverse it not true: all to often we can say "why did the believer kill....?" precisely because of their belief.

So go ahead: explain why all the deaths these people caused were caused because they were atheists.  Or are you just trolling?

Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline jetson

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2011, 08:46:19 AM »
He is a mix between troll and highly deluded theist.  And we all know what this thread is for, and it's sad how the irony doesn't slap him in the face. 

Atheism is also a religion
Atheists have killed millions too
Etc.

I could go on, but the point is clear enough.  When gods, and their followers cannot clearly show demonstrable evidence that their delusions are real, they resort to reminding those of us who don't need the delusion, that we are just as bad as they are.  Hey, when you can't rise above, just drag everyone else down with you!  Sounds like Jesus!


Offline gonegolfing

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2011, 09:23:23 AM »
He is a mix between troll and highly deluded theist.  And we all know what this thread is for, and it's sad how the irony doesn't slap him in the face. 

Atheism is also a religion
Atheists have killed millions too
Etc.

I could go on, but the point is clear enough.  When gods, and their followers cannot clearly show demonstrable evidence that their delusions are real, they resort to reminding those of us who don't need the delusion, that we are just as bad as they are.  Hey, when you can't rise above, just drag everyone else down with you!  Sounds like Jesus!

Yes....he's clearly using the "when in Rome do as the Romans do" approach.

But of course he's merely using his argument as a red herring to avoid, as you say, the arduous and thus far impossible task of proving that a god even exists in the first place....Which at the end of the day, is what we all want here at WWGHA--to be pointed to some clear, irrefutable, and up-to-date evidence.

Is that asking too much ?  ;)
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2011, 10:03:42 AM »
They were also men....does that mean all men are to be blamed? The also did not believe in Leprechauns, does that mean leprechaun believers are better people? They also didn't use heroin, sose that mean heroin use is axiomatically good?  This is bad company fallacy at the most basic.

You have to show it was their atheism that was the motivator. That Atheism was why they inspired people to follow them and commit atrocities.

Also you fail to notice, because of your philosophical blindness, how easily Stalin and Mussolini became buddies with the church when it suited their political purposes. Mussolini in particular pretty much dropped the whole Atheism thing after he got some power, I don't think there's a single time you can find him mentioning it after he was about 28 years old.

Quote
To the Christians and other scum;

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq:
"We have heard that a half million children
have died. I mean, that's more children than
died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price
worth it?"

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright:
"I think this is a very hard choice, but the
price--we think the price is worth it."

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)

Atheists have been in America from the beginning.
And we are still here 250 years later.
Never have American Atheists advocated Mass murder,
or supported Stalin. Nor British Atheists either,
our cousins, nor Canadian Atheists.  Us English
speaking Atheists are singularly innocent of these
crimes of mass murder. To attack us because of an
insane dictator like Stalin is not acceptable.

Hitler and his scum were no Atheists either,
first thing Hitler did as dictator was shut
down all atheist and freethought organizations,
sending their leaders to concentration camps.

American Atheists have never been supporters
of mass murderers as a class.

But as we can see from Albright's quote above Americans,
mostly God believers, have supported a political system
that has indeed committed mass murder.

If Theists here want to toss up Stalin's evils,
long ago in the 30's, or Mao's in the 60's, they
have to take responsibilities for not standing
up and ending America's support for genocides
and mass murders in recent times.

Support for
Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Guatemala's Rios, Montt, El Salvador's
Robert D'Aubisson, Bush's bombing of Iraq's water systems,
a war crime, and sanctions, kept on Iraq by Clinton that killed
500,000 innocent children. Pinochet, support for the Indonesian
military as they killed 200,000 East Timurese, and still
are in Papua New Guinea, killing people. We supported the evil
far right murdering regimes of Greece, Brazil, Iran and Argentina.
Winked at decades of brutality and death squads in Mexico,
and Panama.  The US killed 500,000 with indiscriminate bombings
in Cambodia and killed many in Laos.

These evils were not a century ago, far away and by
people we could not influence.

Many of the scum that voted for and supported these
policies still hold office in the US, Senators, and
Congressmen of both parties, Christians all if you ask
them.

No nasty, sneering, hating, bigoted religious clown
has any right to put responsibility of Stalin's crimes
on my shoulder's for crimes this insane bastard committed
40 years before I was born, while the people in the
US government who were responsible for mass murder and
genocide of some 500,000 innocent children, Christians all,
(Save a few Jews, and Mormons) are still holding office,
military commands, and are not voted out of office by outraged
Christians, outraged at wanton genocide.

I see no mainstream churches, nor right winger churches
have wanted to make an effective issue out of this obscene
and wanton string of support for genocide, mass murder,
and dictators.

And as long as these evil men hold office in the US with
blood on their hands while Christians elect these men,
don't point your ugly finger at me and blather,
"Atheism! Stalin! Mass murder!"

You.  Take the log out your eye before blaming
me for something I have no blame for and will not
accept blame for.

As long as these mass murderers of 500,000 Iraq
children hold office in Congress as Senators,
or Congressmen, or those in the military that
approved and carried out these war crimes,
remain there, unpunished, and in office, in
a nation many believers loudly proclaim Christian,
it is you Christians that are the mass murders,
not us American Atheists.

And until these men are removed and tried for their
crimes, I will not hesitate to describe American
Christians as a whole, supporters of genocide,
mass murder and mass murders.

It is not us Atheists who are supporters of mass
murder and genocide.  it is a majority American
Christians who are because they refuse to stop
supporting it and refuse to punish it.

W. C. Barwell 7-7-06.




An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2011, 10:11:26 AM »
Do you think that Pol Pot and Joe Stalin would have killed just as many people if they were theists?

Yes, because their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) had nothing to do with their actions.  That's the whole point that everyone is trying to drive through your skull.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline jetson

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2011, 10:13:23 AM »
As the OP wants us to do, we should focus on "atheists" who committed mass murder and genocide in the twentieth century.

There are none.  The idea that an atheist would ever commit genocide, or mass murder is barely even a hypothesis, does not even come close to a theory, and has more holes in it than evolution.  Scientists cannot come up with even a single example of an atheist committing mass murder, so I'm not sure this discussion has enough support to get off the ground.

Gzuz, I think we can wrap this one up and move on to showing why you delude children into thinking there's a magic dude who loves them unless they don't worship him, in which case they will burn in Hell.  Whaddya say!


Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2011, 10:34:28 AM »
Seconded. Let's move on to a thread about how moon craters demonstrate the age of the solar system. That link is definitely not in my sig, and certainly should not be clicked on by any young earth creationists.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Historicity

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2011, 11:25:51 AM »
Stalin died of old age in bed,
Died in front of Politburo members.  Krushchev watched it happen and kept changing the details.  Stalin was probably strangled by Beria.

Offline Historicity

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2011, 11:31:06 AM »
Now, rising star Benito Mussolini with a death count of at least 300,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini

Mussolini was baptized.  Mussolini had his children baptized.  Mussolini remarried his wife in a Catholic church.  Mussolini gave back the Church a Vatican state.  Mussolini outlawed blasphemy.  That Catholic Church cooperated with Mussolini.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/mussolini_roman_catholic.htm

Offline Avatar Of Belial

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2011, 11:36:03 AM »
Evolutionary views led Hitler (after reading Nietzche) to believe that some "races" of mankind were more superior than others.  Aryans were superior to Jews.  Since Hitler's God was not the God of the Bible (as evidenced by Hitler's murder of many Protestant pastors), Hitler thought he could kill Jews because they were "inferior".  I haven't researched enough to determine why Stalin killed Jews.

Uh... what? "Superior" isn't exactly a good word to use when talking in evolutionary terms, unless it is immediatly followed by "capability to survive the given enviroment". Plus, Hitler banned books teaching evolution. To call his views based off of "Evolutionary views" is outright idiotic.

I think you're missing something here.


As for Stalin: He killed for political reasons, paranoia, and communism. His atheism is probably one of the few things that didn't give him more targets.

Do you think that Pol Pot and Joe Stalin would have killed just as many people if they were theists?

Without a doubt.
"You play make-believe every day of your life, and yet you have no concept of 'imagination'."
I do not have "faith" in science. I have expectations of science. "Faith" in something is an unfounded assertion, whereas reasonable expectations require a precedent.

Offline changeling

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2011, 11:48:15 AM »
This is scary.
They were all men = men are all evil.
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

"Faith is the enemy of evidence, for when we know the truth, no faith is required." Graybeard

Offline Gill

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2011, 12:15:39 PM »
Course, there have been 'evil' religious people, and vice versa, so I don't think it would be fair to equate one or the other.   But, if I had a choice between having a government leader as an atheist or christian, I'd probably choose the christian.

Since,  the atheist sees no authority higher than himself.  Therefore, I think this can lead more likely to a dictator mindset.  Whereas, a christian recognizes a higher authority than himself, and so would less likely conceive of himself as a dictator.

Offline Frank

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2011, 12:33:04 PM »
Whereas, a christian recognizes a higher authority than himself, and so would less likely conceive of himself as a dictator.

So does a muslim, hindu, jew, sihk, rastafarian, etc etc. Would you have a problem with any of them or just atheists?
"Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions fall away, atheism is what is left behind".

Offline One Above All

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2011, 12:33:28 PM »
This is scary.
They were all men = men are all evil.

Even worse, they were all alive!
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2011, 12:39:38 PM »
This is scary.
They were all men = men are all evil.

Even worse, they were all alive!

And the sons of bitches all used hemoglobin for oxygen transport in their blood cells!  Hemoglobin!  Madness, I tell you!
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline One Above All

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2011, 12:42:44 PM »
This is scary.
They were all men = men are all evil.

Even worse, they were all alive!

And the sons of bitches all used hemoglobin for oxygen transport in their blood cells!  Hemoglobin!  Madness, I tell you!

They breathed???
Good god... We're all doomed!
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline Gill

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2011, 12:43:22 PM »
Whereas, a christian recognizes a higher authority than himself, and so would less likely conceive of himself as a dictator.

So does a muslim, hindu, jew, sihk, rastafarian, etc etc. Would you have a problem with any of them or just atheists?

I'd have a problem with anyone who doesn't recognize a higher authority than himself, being a leader of the country.   I live in the u.s.a., so if an atheist recognizes 'natural given rights' , instead of 'god given rights',  I suppose then they would be recognizing a higher authority.   But,  I just see this to be less likely in other parts of the world.

And so you have some people in my country who think; 'why do we need god in the constitution, etc.'.  Well, to prevent tyranny you have to start with the premise that there is an authority greater than any elected official, that's why......

Offline changeling

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2011, 12:44:29 PM »
   But, if I had a choice between having a government leader as an atheist or christian, I'd probably choose the christian.

Since,  the atheist sees no authority higher than himself.  Therefore, I think this can lead more likely to a dictator mindset.  Whereas, a christian recognizes a higher authority than himself, and so would less likely conceive of himself as a dictator.

Yeah, I have seen that.
The leader might say that God told him to invade another country or something.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 12:49:26 PM by changeling »
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

"Faith is the enemy of evidence, for when we know the truth, no faith is required." Graybeard

Offline Gill

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Re: ATHEISTS who have committed mass murders and genocide in the 20th century
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2011, 12:49:07 PM »
   But, if I had a choice between having a government leader as an atheist or christian, I'd probably choose the christian.

Since,  the atheist sees no authority higher than himself.  Therefore, I think this can lead more likely to a dictator mindset.  Whereas, a christian recognizes a higher authority than himself, and so would less likely conceive of himself as a dictator.

Yeah, I have seen that.
The leader might say that God told him to invade a country.

Ok. Well, fortunately in my country you need more of a reason to go to war than that.