Author Topic: Your first 6 days in HELL  (Read 3973 times)

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Offline jetson

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2011, 12:12:27 AM »

Jetson, do you go through life without standards?  Do you just do life reacting however you wish without regard to anything?  Or do you live your live, at least in part, according to some set of rules (standards)?

Your question appears to be a response to what you think I have done to "butt in" to your conversation.  I'm not sure what you think this is going to accomplish, but I assure you that any misguided reply that you believe came from me, to you, was intentional.

I don't, as you are implying, wander around the forum and "butt in" to conversations.  I reply whenever, and wherever I have something to say.  And the appropriate reply from you, if you truly believe that I was out of line in some way, is to direct me to that reply, and make your point.   You can also click the "Report to Moderator" button and report me.  I am not immune to being reported, and the merits of your report will be handled professionally by the staff.

On the other hand, if you want to become a moderator on the forum, perhaps a PM to the admins will get you that role, and then you can run the forum as you see fit? 

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2011, 12:25:19 AM »
Josiah

The problem is that you showed up in preacher-mode and tried to explain your version of why god loves us to a bunch of folks for whom such info is superfluous. We've heard it before, in a thousand variations, and nobody has yet to explain how a god who loves us can do so while exhibiting inferior moral standards. Let me clue you, Kim Jong Il, who just kicked the bucket, was a far nicer dude, in general, than your god, and he never claimed to love me. I can assure you that he, knowing I didn't believe the story about how he bowled 300 the first time he ever played the game, wanted me dead. But only dead. Which is a heck of a lot nicer. Comparatively speaking.

Besides not believing the story, we atheists are quite confounded by this "he loves me, but he doesn't give a rats ass, but I love him anyway, without question, etc." attitude exhibited by christians. Yes, I know humans have strange weaknesses. Abused children will cry and reach out longingly for the mother than hurt them as said mommy is being hauled off to jail. But I don't think it's quite the same thing. At least they have seen their mom.

I am this dipshit stupid human with a trillion foibles and the incredible desire to sin, sin, sin. As per the christians, if I am to believe the ones that have tried to convert me. Yet I have no trouble, that is "no" as in none, nada, zip, zero, no trouble imagining that if I were this god god you so revere, I would be a lot better at it. I'm sure I wouldn't make everybody happy. People never killed in earthquakes have a hard time appreciating that they haven't been crushed if it never happens anywhere. I would stop every rapist, and that would irritate the crap out of them, I'm sure, but the kids and women who never know they were about to be victims would get to go on doing all that freewill stuff you think is so cool. The word war wouldn't be in any vocabulary, and people would all speak the same language because I am not personally offended by skyscrapers. I would have made up with the devil a long time ago and I would be spending a lot of PR time clarifying the assorted and sundry misinterpretations of the bible as they cropped up.

But would you, Josiah, love me as your god if I treated you like a decent, fallible human? Would you love me if I earned your respect instead of demanding it? Would you appreciate me efforts or condemn me for being a lily-livered deity with an infinite number of soft spots?

What you probably want is that authority figure dude who could smite you any time he wanted but hasn't yet. Not being smited is pretty darned good proof that, well, that you haven't been smited. And if that is enough for you, then that's simply wonderful. But just like your need above to drag the most horrid of the horrid dictators into the argument just so your god and his murderous actions don't look quite so bad, you also have to drag the most horrid of excuses into the argument in an effort to make sky-daddy look worshipable. And neither one impresses.

Since you won't accomplish much with your god love strategy, perhaps you could actually enlighten us and explain why, as Jetson has already asked, christian after christian shows up here to complain and none of you believes the same thing. Each of you has a different story, different bible verses to back up different interpretations. Some have a hot hell, others no hell at all. Some think the bible is literal and some allow for some metaphorical interpretations. Some are literal 6,000 year old earthers while others accept evolution but still think god did it. Some are big on jesus, other on paul. Some think the flood waters came from the sky, others think it came from out of the earth. All of you read the same book and all of you come out with very different takes on what it means and all of you call it the perfect word of god. If he is real, he really needs to perfect this perfection thing of his.

Once you christians can explain the variety to our satisfaction, then we can have lots of other discussions. Until then, custom you with your custom interpretations of the bible and custom reasons for all this love stuff and custom justifications for all the inconsistencies, can only do one thing exactly like the other christians.  Make excuses. And amazingly, you guys have a lot more consistency in the excuse department than your could ever have in the biblical interpretation department. So I'm not holding out for any actual help from you in this arena. I just thought I'd let you know why we aren't all lovey-dovey at the moment. 
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2011, 12:47:53 AM »
Perhaps, to start with, you could mention one thing not in the universe, which is owned, then who it is owned by, and finally how the concept applies in that context.

Define your understanding of "universe" and "thing".

I was merely suggesting a way for you to answer my question. If this is not helpful, then read the rest and explain how those concepts (ownership, sovereignty) function distinct from the universe in your own way.

So far, you've used the terms as they apply to humans who inhabit the universe we commonly experience.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2011, 08:53:59 AM »

Stockholm syndrome

Josiah is simply another who has come here suffering from the same syndrome and is defending the god idea which holds him captive. Sadly, he has allowed this abusive idea--that is all wrapped up in a disguise of so called love--to garner his empathy and support, as well as give him the desire to defend his captivity as if it were of great benefit to him.

He thinks he's free--but he is in fact being held hostage by a primitive and baseless idea that was formulated in ancient times and done so because of ignorance and lack of understanding.

He justifies hell and its creator, and thinks he's avoiding it--but the reality is that his current captivity to this pathetic idea is hell and he simply doesn't know it or understand that fact.
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline kin hell

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2011, 09:24:06 AM »
god works in mysterious ways
how can we know the mind of god?
but I know what god wants
gods works are self evident all around us

god loves you
he has designed and constructed an eternal torture device (worse than anything you can imagine) to help you know his love

god works in mysterious ways
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2011, 10:02:52 AM »
^^^^

Lulz. Ah yup. That's about the size of it.
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Offline Frank

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2011, 10:46:06 AM »
This is the drawback to eternity. Eventually it's going to get boring, even for Satan. After all once you've tortured one sinner you've basically tortured them all.
I mean what do dieties do all day? To already know everything. To already know the outcome of everything. An eternity with nothing to learn, no surprises, everything the same day after boring day.
Satan wouldn't have to torture us. With an eternity of boredom to look forward to we would soon create our own hell. Unforunately for Satan and Yahweh they would have to suffer it with us since they have nowhere else to go.
Satan is NOT in hell he is free

Satan free? I think not. The only gods that are "free" are those that no longer have worshippers. Horus, Zeus, Odin, they are no longer called back to do our bidding. Satan and Yahweh on the other hand, not to mention any other gods who are still worshipped are not free. They have roles to play and whether they like it or not they will play them until we allow them to stop. Satan and Yahweh are our slaves to demand of, to blame, to ignore, to discard, as and when we please and not before, and judging by the amount of "believers" around they have many more years of slavery to look forward too before they get any peace from us.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2011, 11:11:03 AM »
If someone has authority, that doesn't mean that he has to exercise his rights immediately.  He can take his time.  Even humans set up statutes of limitations to recognize that people do not have to demand justice right away.  We humans can give offenders time to make restitution before dragging them to court.

lovely excuse there, Josiah.  It's the same one Christians have been using to excuse their god for not showing up now for oh the last 2000+ years.   Considering how many people die without your god getting back to them, it seems this god fails repeatedly to fulfill your claims about him.   
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Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2011, 11:27:29 AM »
So.... <Looks around... Taps desk with pencil...>

When do we get to go back to talking about all the wonderful and glorious ways Yahweh wants us to suffer?

I'd hate to have this thread derailed because one lone tumbleweed blew through and distracted us with it's "God is Grrrreat!" starter kit.

So, in the interest of pulling this retarded monster back into the living room, let's SEE SOME HELL!

<cue Benny Hill music>



Now this one is nice because right off the bat, you can appreciate the boiling racism. The White Man being brutalized all over the place, by WHO? That's right. Negro Demons. Stay classy, Christian hell-painting guy!


Then we have this glorious tribute to Yahweh's loving ways...




Yup. You can tell the guy who painted this was just covered in Yahweh's love.

A Christly soul, truly must he have been.

But there's not enough FIRE!!!



f**k YEAH. <slaps knee> Now THOSE boys know how to gnash some teeth, goddammit!

WHOO!

But maybe you prefer your hell a little more one-on-onesy...



Ugh. That's just... Creepy actually. Neither of these two have the right expression on their face for what's going on here.

Still, it definitely makes me go "No, don't let that happen to MEEEEE! SAVE ME JESUS!"

Just like...




OH MY DEAR GOD WHAT THE HOLY FLYING f**k *IS* THAT AND WHY ARE IT'S LOWER SNAKES SO SAD!!!!???  :o

The great and terrrible vaginal Satan and his reptile army!

Seriously now. Holy s**t that picture is terrible. I can't look at it for more than a few minutes before I start to completely freak out. Whoever created this awful image is a bad and terrible person and they should be arrested.

I think I have to declare this one a winner. If I actually found myself IN that picture... Holy moley. I'd just collapse into a gibbering pile of piss and tears while I soiled myself and sucked my thumb. 

Save me, Lawdie! Save me from all your loving machinations, like:




Umm...  John Candy... Dressed up as one of the Imps from Dragon Warrior... apparently beseiged by wayward french fries.

...

They can't all be winners.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 11:45:22 AM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2011, 11:30:09 AM »
god works in mysterious ways
how can we know the mind of god?
but I know what god wants
gods works are self evident all around us

god loves you
he has designed and constructed an eternal torture device (worse than anything you can imagine) to help you know his love

god works in mysterious ways

And he needs your money.[1]





 1. 
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2011, 06:32:13 PM »
Looking at the pictures.......WOW those Christians sure have vivid imaginations......the funny thing is NO demons has even been confined to hell yet have they?

God has failed to put Satan in the prison he built specially for him,but the demons are all there. Who are these demons in these pictures anyways?
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Offline gzusfreke

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2011, 06:40:22 PM »
Since you won't accomplish much with your god love strategy, perhaps you could actually enlighten us and explain why, as Jetson has already asked, christian after christian shows up here to complain

PP, looks like you and your cohorts are the complainers

Quote
and none of you believes the same thing. Each of you has a different story, different bible verses to back up different interpretations. Some have a hot hell, others no hell at all. Some think the bible is literal and some allow for some metaphorical interpretations. Some are literal 6,000 year old earthers while others accept evolution but still think god did it. Some are big on jesus, other on paul. Some think the flood waters came from the sky, others think it came from out of the earth. All of you read the same book and all of you come out with very different takes on what it means and all of you call it the perfect word of god. If he is real, he really needs to perfect this perfection thing of his.
 

You are correct, imperfect humans with different mental, emotional and spiritual capacities and perspectives don't always agree on the peripherals and even on some of the majors, but they do agree on most of the majors - sin exists, man is sinful, God exists, God judges sin, God sets aside His judgment in mercy for those who accept that Jesus took on the judgment for their sin.

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Once you christians can explain the variety to our satisfaction,
 

that probably is an impossibility, as you would always find a reason not to be satisfied if you are opposed to Christianity in any form

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then we can have lots of other discussions. Until then, custom you with your custom interpretations of the bible and custom reasons for all this love stuff and custom justifications for all the inconsistencies, can only do one thing exactly like the other christians.  Make excuses. And amazingly, you guys have a lot more consistency in the excuse department than your could ever have in the biblical interpretation department. So I'm not holding out for any actual help from you in this arena.
 

from your post one could assume that you hadn't asked for any help but wouldn't accept any if offered

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I just thought I'd let you know why we aren't all lovey-dovey at the moment.


 It looks like many of you smelled blood and just decided to join the feeding frenzy, whether you had could add any legitimate comment or not.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 06:57:12 PM by gzusfreke »
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Offline gzusfreke

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2011, 06:53:23 PM »
Looking at the pictures.......WOW those Christians sure have vivid imaginations......the funny thing is NO demons has even been confined to hell yet have they?

God has failed to put Satan in the prison he built specially for him,but the demons are all there. Who are these demons in these pictures anyways?

If you are wanting to know how most Christians interpret what the Bible says, here goes.

Jude 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

2 Peter 2:4   For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

Luke 8 30 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion”; for many demons had entered him. 31 They were imploring Him not to command them to go away into the abyss.
 32 Now there was a herd of many swine feeding there on the mountain; and the demons implored Him to permit them to enter [h]the swine. And He gave them permission. 33 And the demons came out of the man and entered the swine; and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.


The Bible says that some demons were already put into the pit or abyss and some were not.

Revelation 20   1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

The Bible says that satan will be bound in the pit for a time, then released for a short time.  After a short battle, satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire.  Revelation 20:10

A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

Offline gzusfreke

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2011, 07:03:32 PM »
Raymond, you mentioned Yahweh by name, so I take it that you are referring to the god of the Old and New Testaments.  If you don't believe in Him, why does it bother you that other people do believe in Him and that they believe in a literal place of torment that goes on forever?  As long as they aren't beating you over the head with a Bible and screaming "Go to Hell Sinner!" over and over in your ears, why does this bother you so much?  Wouldn't life be better if you just live and let live?  I'm just asking a question, not trying to start a war.

Do you believe that humans have a soul?
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

Offline Nick

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2011, 07:44:12 PM »
Raymond, you mentioned Yahweh by name, so I take it that you are referring to the god of the Old and New Testaments.  If you don't believe in Him, why does it bother you that other people do believe in Him and that they believe in a literal place of torment that goes on forever?  As long as they aren't beating you over the head with a Bible and screaming "Go to Hell Sinner!" over and over in your ears, why does this bother you so much?  Wouldn't life be better if you just live and let live?  I'm just asking a question, not trying to start a war.

Do you believe that humans have a soul?
If it were that easy then there would be no problem.  But our loving Christians are hell bent on forcing the rest of us (thru poltical action/laws) to conform to their rules and behavior.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Tinyal

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2011, 08:00:36 PM »
Raymond, you mentioned Yahweh by name, so I take it that you are referring to the god of the Old and New Testaments.  If you don't believe in Him, why does it bother you that other people do believe in Him and that they believe in a literal place of torment that goes on forever?  As long as they aren't beating you over the head with a Bible and screaming "Go to Hell Sinner!" over and over in your ears, why does this bother you so much?  Wouldn't life be better if you just live and let live?  I'm just asking a question, not trying to start a war.

Do you believe that humans have a soul?

Well, it wouldn't bother me but for the fact that here in the USA, nearly 60% (some figures are higher, depending on where you live) believe in this stuff to the extent they won't vote for anyone who doesn't also believe it - they support (and vote for) restricting science & medicine & education based on these nonsensical beliefs.  Most importantly, stop practicing child abuse by teaching this stuff to your children - you don't own your kids, your job is to make them responsible, independent adults, not some unthinking clone like their parents.

People have the right to believe whatever the hell they wish - but, keep it out of our government, out of our research institutes, out of our educational systems, out of our laws - and start paying some taxes like the rest of us.  The USA is not some christian theocracy (at least, not yet - the xian believers are working on making it so very, very hard). 

Keep it to yourself and I (plus I daresay, most everyone else here) would have no problems with it, other than the fact we might break out laughing when you start talking.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2011, 08:02:13 PM »
Since you won't accomplish much with your god love strategy, perhaps you could actually enlighten us and explain why, as Jetson has already asked, christian after christian shows up here to complain

PP, looks like you and your cohorts are the complainers

Huh? We're not allowed to complain too? Since we're not big on this love thing, I'm pretty sure it's okay for us to complain without violating any tenets of any sort. Especially considering that we don't have any frickin' tenets.

Quote
Quote
and none of you believes the same thing. Each of you has a different story, different bible verses to back up different interpretations. Some have a hot hell, others no hell at all. Some think the bible is literal and some allow for some metaphorical interpretations. Some are literal 6,000 year old earthers while others accept evolution but still think god did it. Some are big on jesus, other on paul. Some think the flood waters came from the sky, others think it came from out of the earth. All of you read the same book and all of you come out with very different takes on what it means and all of you call it the perfect word of god. If he is real, he really needs to perfect this perfection thing of his.
 

You are correct, imperfect humans with different mental, emotional and spiritual capacities and perspectives don't always agree on the peripherals and even on some of the majors, but they do agree on most of the majors - sin exists, man is sinful, God exists, God judges sin, God sets aside His judgment in mercy for those who accept that Jesus took on the judgment for their sin.

Oh, gee, what a wonderful and satisfying explanation. One book, tens of thousands of denominations, many variations within those, and many many christians who don't identify with any church. Granted, it explains why some people drive 9 miles an hour on the freeway while others go 150. Drivers are imperfect humans with different mental and emotional capacities and they interpret "70" in a lot of different ways. And last weekend the Lions beat the Chargers, 38-10. Or at least some people think that was the score. Others tell me it was 21-19, 45-11, 29-7, and a few even tell me the Chargers won by five or ten or fifteen points. But thanks to you, I now know that people have different mental and emotional capacities along with, of course (when relevant), different spiritual capacities. I guess that explains why I get such different stories on who won the game and by how much, how fast to drive and other basic human endeavors. Now that I know this is the norm, I can understand the multiple versions of christianity.

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Once you christians can explain the variety to our satisfaction,
 

that probably is an impossibility, as you would always find a reason not to be satisfied if you are opposed to Christianity in any form

I'm not actually opposed to christianity in the sense that you think I am. I am opposed to the ignorance I associate with christianity (oppression of women, distrust of science, creationism, strangely selfish right-wing political views that are often associated with fundamentalists, etc). And guess what, if you guys put together a unified front, with a philosophical stance that was consistent across christianity and that glued you guys together in some unquestionably strong way, I would notice. As it is, I find the lack of consistency to be yet another piece of evidence that the whole thing is made up.

By the way, I assume that every time you see a teenager wearing all black, you want to strangle them.

Since you know how I think, I thought I'd tell you how you think.

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then we can have lots of other discussions. Until then, custom you with your custom interpretations of the bible and custom reasons for all this love stuff and custom justifications for all the inconsistencies, can only do one thing exactly like the other christians.  Make excuses. And amazingly, you guys have a lot more consistency in the excuse department than your could ever have in the biblical interpretation department. So I'm not holding out for any actual help from you in this arena.
 

from your post one could assume that you hadn't asked for any help but wouldn't accept any if offered

Wrong. I've asked this question of dozens of christians on this site and have never had a reply. Yours is the closest to a response I've seen, but it's pretty unsatisfactory. It sounds like an excuse, not a reason. Of course, if that's all you have...

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I just thought I'd let you know why we aren't all lovey-dovey at the moment.


 It looks like many of you smelled blood and just decided to join the feeding frenzy, whether you had could add any legitimate comment or not.

Let me get this straight. You haven't participated in this forum since last March, and you suddenly appeared in this thread, to which I had posted several times before in the last few days, and accuse me of somehow suddenly showing up to hassle our christian of the week?

You can't get your myths straight. You can't get your facts straight. Not the best combination in the world.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline gzusfreke

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2011, 08:19:23 PM »
If it were that easy then there would be no problem.  But our loving Christians are hell bent on forcing the rest of us (thru poltical action/laws) to conform to their rules and behavior.

Nick, how are Christians forcing you and others thru political actions/laws to conform to their rules and behavior?  Be specific.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

Offline gzusfreke

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2011, 08:30:23 PM »
Well, it wouldn't bother me but for the fact that here in the USA, nearly 60% (some figures are higher, depending on where you live) believe in this stuff to the extent they won't vote for anyone who doesn't also believe it - they support (and vote for) restricting science & medicine & education based on these nonsensical beliefs.
 

So you are not in favor of people being able to vote the way they want to if it is in opposition to what you want?

 
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Most importantly, stop practicing child abuse by teaching this stuff to your children - you don't own your kids, your job is to make them responsible, independent adults, not some unthinking clone like their parents.
 

So your idea of raising a child is to give it no guidance whatsoever?

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People have the right to believe whatever the hell they wish - but, keep it out of our government, out of our research institutes, out of our educational systems, out of our laws - and start paying some taxes like the rest of us.  The USA is not some christian theocracy (at least, not yet - the xian believers are working on making it so very, very hard). 

Again, your intolerance is showing.  "People have the right to believe whatever the hell they wish - "  but just don't let it affect how one lives their life?  Don't let your beliefs affect how you vote?

And I do pay taxes and no I don't want a Christian theocracy.

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Keep it to yourself and I (plus I daresay, most everyone else here) would have no problems with it, other than the fact we might break out laughing when you start talking.
 

If you don't like what I have to say, don't read my posts.  It is a free country for a little while longer.  If I don't like what you have to say, I'm not going to tell you to shut up, I will just choose not to listen.  But I don't mind hearing opposing viewpoints.  I can listen to other people who have different worldviews without just automatically assuming that they are stupid, crazy, or weird.  Maybe they are none of those things.

A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2011, 08:30:40 PM »
If it were that easy then there would be no problem.  But our loving Christians are hell bent on forcing the rest of us (thru poltical action/laws) to conform to their rules and behavior.

Nick, how are Christians forcing you and others thru political actions/laws to conform to their rules and behavior?  Be specific.

I'm not Nick but I can contribute to this discussion with a link. Hope it doesn't look like I'm participating in a feeding frenzy.
http://ncse.com/news/2011/12/monitoring-antievolution-bills-new-hampshire-007000

Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline gzusfreke

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2011, 08:38:21 PM »
If it were that easy then there would be no problem.  But our loving Christians are hell bent on forcing the rest of us (thru poltical action/laws) to conform to their rules and behavior.

Nick, how are Christians forcing you and others thru political actions/laws to conform to their rules and behavior?  Be specific.

I'm not Nick but I can contribute to this discussion with a link. Hope it doesn't look like I'm participating in a feeding frenzy.
http://ncse.com/news/2011/12/monitoring-antievolution-bills-new-hampshire-007000

PP, 1) Evolution IS just a theory.  It hasn't been proven because it has not been observed, missing links are still missing, etc. etc. etc.  2)  So you think it is ok that you and yours force Christians to conform to their rules and behavior by teaching evolution as fact, teaching GLBT's "contributions to society" in the classroom of public elementary schools, and on and on we could go. 

PP, this is not a one-sided battle, but it is a battle of worldviews in our political arenas and in our public schools.  To portray it only as "Christians trying to force everyone else to conform" is very narrow-minded or just downright dishonest.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2011, 08:40:55 PM »
If it were that easy then there would be no problem.  But our loving Christians are hell bent on forcing the rest of us (thru poltical action/laws) to conform to their rules and behavior.

Nick, how are Christians forcing you and others thru political actions/laws to conform to their rules and behavior?  Be specific.

I'm not Nick but I can contribute to this discussion with a link. Hope it doesn't look like I'm participating in a feeding frenzy.
http://ncse.com/news/2011/12/monitoring-antievolution-bills-new-hampshire-007000

PP, 1) Evolution IS just a theory.  It hasn't been proven because it has not been observed, missing links are still missing, etc. etc. etc.  2)  So you think it is ok that you and yours force Christians to conform to their rules and behavior by teaching evolution as fact, teaching GLBT's "contributions to society" in the classroom of public elementary schools, and on and on we could go. 

PP, this is not a one-sided battle, but it is a battle of worldviews in our political arenas and in our public schools.  To portray it only as "Christians trying to force everyone else to conform" is very narrow-minded or just downright dishonest.

Since you don't know what a theory is, there is nothing to discuss here. But I'm thinking that maybe we atheists should propose legislation to make it illegal to teach religion in churches, since religion wants to make it illegal to teach knowledge in schools.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2011, 08:55:19 PM »

If you are wanting to know how most Christians interpret what the Bible says, here goes.

Jude 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain,

The incessant cleaning polishing and babbling of the seraphim drove them out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelic_hierarchy#Dominions

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Seraphim (singular "Seraph"), mentioned in Isaiah 6:1-7,[3] serve as the caretakers of God's throne and continuously shout praises: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts. All the earth is filled with His Glory." The name Seraphim means "the burning ones." The Seraphim have six wings.
Two of the Seraphim are named Seraphiel and Metatron, according to some books. Seraphiel is said to have the head of an eagle. It is said that such a bright light emanates from them that nothing, not even other angelic beings, can look upon them. It is also said that there are four of them surrounding God's throne, where they burn eternally from love and zeal for God.

but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,[/i]

Ah already with the eternal bondage.... 
What is it with your god and his so tender self regard?

And if sitting at the foot of god is heaven (eternal reward) then how did the angels manage to tear themselves away in the first place?
Surely if god is the light of the universe then angels are the moths trapped by his incandescence.

2 Peter 2:4   For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

.....at least any sinning seraphim would bring their own light. 
..........and with six wings each, no less, flying out of the pit of darkness should be no problem.

Luke 8 30 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion”; for many demons had entered him. 31 They were imploring Him not to command them to go away into the abyss.
 32 Now there was a herd of many swine feeding there on the mountain; and the demons implored Him to permit them to enter [h]the swine. And He gave them permission. 33 And the demons came out of the man and entered the swine; and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

supernatural beings can drown
holy water kills vampires
silver bullets kill werewolves
pigs might fly[1]

The Bible says that some demons were already put into the pit or abyss and some were not.

.....hell lotto
inconsistency, indecisiveness, randomness, inability to finish the job, forgetfulness?
or god's plan?

It's like opening a fortune cookie that says "you'll have bad luck today"  Is the act of opening that particular accursed cookie the "bad luck"?


Revelation 20   1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

And now we see that eternal bondage = 1000 years

I really wish you bible pushers would get your story straight.


3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer,

So there was a thousand years without the great deceiver input when sin could not have been committed .
When was that actually?


until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.[/i]

So god is limited.  He is subject to dictates, and Satan "must" be released for a short time.

The Bible says that satan will be bound in the pit for a time, then released for a short time.  After a short battle, satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire.  Revelation 20:10

....is "a short time"  less than the time he was bound into the pit for?

because you've shown us that the "eternal" pit duration was a thousand years, so a short time must be less than that.

So I take it satan has already had his short battle, and we missed it.

When was that exactly?


EDIT changed:  battery hens for bible pushers

 1. umbrellas not included
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 09:34:52 PM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline gzusfreke

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #81 on: December 29, 2011, 08:58:35 PM »
Huh? We're not allowed to complain too?

Complain all you want to, just don't accuse me of doing something that I didn't do.  You are being dishonest.

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Oh, gee, what a wonderful and satisfying explanation. One book, tens of thousands of denominations, many variations within those, and many many christians who don't identify with any church. Granted, it explains why some people drive 9 miles an hour on the freeway while others go 150. Drivers are imperfect humans with different mental and emotional capacities and they interpret "70" in a lot of different ways. And last weekend the Lions beat the Chargers, 38-10. Or at least some people think that was the score. Others tell me it was 21-19, 45-11, 29-7, and a few even tell me the Chargers won by five or ten or fifteen points. But thanks to you, I now know that people have different mental and emotional capacities along with, of course (when relevant), different spiritual capacities. I guess that explains why I get such different stories on who won the game and by how much, how fast to drive and other basic human endeavors. Now that I know this is the norm, I can understand the multiple versions of christianity.

It's good that you used a football analogy.  How many times has a trained referee made a call about a player being in or out of bounds and three different camera angles give three different perspective (in, out, can't tell for sure)?  They all saw the same thing, but not all were in agreement.  They were in agreement that there was a player in a game and approximately where he was on the field and they all agree what team he was playing for and what quarter it was, etc. etc. etc. and yes everyone can agree on the score.

I will agree with you that I wish all believers were in 100% agreement and unity on interpreting the Bible, but in this life that will never happen.  For me that is one of the proofs of the Fall and witness to our imperfect nature.

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I'm not actually opposed to christianity in the sense that you think I am. I am opposed to the ignorance I associate with christianity (oppression of women, distrust of science, creationism, strangely selfish right-wing political views that are often associated with fundamentalists, etc). And guess what, if you guys put together a unified front, with a philosophical stance that was consistent across christianity and that glued you guys together in some unquestionably strong way, I would notice. As it is, I find the lack of consistency to be yet another piece of evidence that the whole thing is made up.
 

First I would like for you to tell me how Christianity oppresses women.

As for distrust of science, I think that is an exaggeration.  Most Christians do not believe some of the unproven assertions (evolution, age of universe = 15 billion years) that are expressed as if they were facts.  When you get time, look at the history of the science of cellular biology, subatomic particles, and astronomy.  CONTRADICTIONS ABOUND in these areas of study.  What was once a "fact" gets disproven quite often.

[qoute] By the way, I assume that every time you see a teenager wearing all black, you want to strangle them. [/quote] 

You know what happens when you "assume"?  Why do you bring this into the conversation?  Most of my t-shirts are black.  I know and love kids who people would call "emo" and "goth", but we digress.

As you said "Since you know how I think, I thought I'd tell you how you think."

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then we can have lots of other discussions. Until then, custom you with your custom interpretations of the bible and custom reasons for all this love stuff and custom justifications for all the inconsistencies, can only do one thing exactly like the other christians.  Make excuses. And amazingly, you guys have a lot more consistency in the excuse department than your could ever have in the biblical interpretation department. So I'm not holding out for any actual help from you in this arena.
 

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Wrong. I've asked this question of dozens of christians on this site and have never had a reply. Yours is the closest to a response I've seen, but it's pretty unsatisfactory. It sounds like an excuse, not a reason. Of course, if that's all you have... 

I missed it.  I didn't realize you asked a question.  Would you please repeat your question?

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  Let me get this straight. You haven't participated in this forum since last March, and you suddenly appeared in this thread, to which I had posted several times before in the last few days, and accuse me of somehow suddenly showing up to hassle our christian of the week?

You can't get your myths straight. You can't get your facts straight. Not the best combination in the world. 

So you are stalking me?   :)  I was referring to how all of a sudden 4 or 5 people jump into action on the thread.  It just reminds me of throwing chum out when shark fishing, that's all.  Don't flatter yourself too much, it was just a remark about the thread in general.

What myths and facts do you think that I did not keep straight? 

And would you consider yourself without blemish or error, because if you are perfect, then we should all try to emulate you.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

Offline Samothec

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #82 on: December 29, 2011, 09:03:20 PM »
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Day 1
The intensity of the darkness is only matched by the absence of any joyful sounds-no music, no laughter, no sounds of merriment. As you move farther, faint sounds of moaning and wailing become detectable.
For a fraction of a second I thought the last word was "delectable". I feel I must mention at this time that I have taken the current MMPI and have not been diagnosed as a sociopath.

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Day 5
"For the first time since your arrival, you begin to sense the great gulf that is fixed between where you are and where God is.
Really, I know where god is?! Cool, now I can project my hatred of him at him. And try to make my way to him.

Seriously though, that wasn't at all scary or imaginative.

snipped
If He decides that those who rebel against Him and His rules deserve punishment, then what gives you, me, or anyone else the moral authority to question God's morality?

Based on your (and other theists' premise) god made us so our sense of good & evil comes from him. It is by his standards that he is evaluated by me (us?) to be the purest evil in existence.

snipped
If indeed "god is using a different set of rules but has neglected to tell us" why does that matter as long as He has made it clear what set of rules He expects us to use?

But god has not "made it clear what set of rules He expects us to use". Which set of rules? Torah? New Testament? Qur'an? Or something else?


LOL to all of the following!

 
Well, how can it be Hell if we're exempted from reading your tracts?
 

 
Keeping people in hell for all of infinity would require an infinite amount of energy. That won't leave any energy for heaven. Somebody is in trouble...

 
<the pizza> may not be fresh, but it's hot!

And ANY kind of love that doesn't involve eternal torture is better than Yahweh's love. A PEDOPHILES love, is better than Yahweh's love. 

 
Umm...  John Candy... Dressed up as one of the Imps from Dragon Warrior... apparently beseiged by wayward french fries.
They can't all be winners.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #83 on: December 29, 2011, 09:32:40 PM »
gzusfreke

You responded to a post I addressed to Josiah.  He had posted over and over his "Jesus loves you" stuff that added nothing to the conversation. I chose to respond in my own way.

I was complaining about him, not you, because, at that point you were not around. You didn't like it that I was complaining about him and you complained. At one point you told me, and I quote "that probably is an impossibility, as you would always find a reason not to be satisfied if you are opposed to Christianity in any form".  That is you telling me what I think, so I told you what you think about the teens in black clothes, just for he heck of it. Sorry that went over your head.

Oh, and you football ref analogy as an excuse for why religious followers aren't consistent?  Where in the rule book does it say anything about perfection?  The bible, or at least it's followers, claim that for your god. Hence I tend to think it would show. It doesn't. You have an excuse (the fall).  Nuff said.

And I'm way too tired of the voluntary ignorance proudly displayed by too many Christians around here to get into any discussion about evolution or anything else you know nothing about. If lip syncing to the words of your leaders as they diss the subject is good enough for you, who am I to judge. but a word of advise. Don't ever think for even a second you actually know anything about the subject.

Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline gzusfreke

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #84 on: December 29, 2011, 09:38:54 PM »
And I'm way too tired of the voluntary ignorance proudly displayed by too many Christians around here to get into any discussion about evolution or anything else you know nothing about. If lip syncing to the words of your leaders as they diss the subject is good enough for you, who am I to judge. but a word of advise. Don't ever think for even a second you actually know anything about the subject.

And I'm way too tired of the smug false sense of superiority displayed by too many proud and arrogant atheists like yourself who think that they are the only ones who study, read, or take classes.  If you're so smart, do some research and make a list of theists since 1600 who have made positive contributions to science, exploration, and social welfare and you will see that we enjoy the lives that we do because of the contributions of theists more than atheists. 
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent. - John Calvin

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #85 on: December 29, 2011, 09:49:38 PM »
And I'm way too tired of the voluntary ignorance proudly displayed by too many Christians around here to get into any discussion about evolution or anything else you know nothing about. If lip syncing to the words of your leaders as they diss the subject is good enough for you, who am I to judge. but a word of advise. Don't ever think for even a second you actually know anything about the subject.

And I'm way too tired of the smug false sense of superiority displayed by too many proud and arrogant atheists like yourself who think that they are the only ones who study, read, or take classes.  If you're so smart, do some research and make a list of theists since 1600 who have made positive contributions to science, exploration, and social welfare and you will see that we enjoy the lives that we do because of the contributions of theists more than atheists.

It has nothing to do with smugness. We are unable to present our reasons for accepting evolution because the Christians who show up here to argue the point don't know a damned thing about the subject. Not one damned thing. Your misunderstanding of what a theory is demonstrates to me that you are just another one in the long line of VOLUNTARILY ignorant Christ-followers.

I'm not saying you are stupid. But for some reason, when it comes to contentious issues such as this, you and others like prefer not to know much, if anything, about subjects you are told to oppose.

I have five different versions of the bible bookmarked so that when a Christian makes a point and refers to a biblical verse, I can easily go to it and read their source. Christians aren't even willing to go to a frickin dictionary and make an effort to understand what a theory is.

Sad.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Frank

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Re: Your first 6 days in HELL
« Reply #86 on: December 29, 2011, 09:50:51 PM »


First I would like for you to tell me how Christianity oppresses women.



Try getting an abortion in Mississippi. Or most of the southern states for that matter. Rick Perry who wishes to be president recently stated he would ban abortion in all circumstances including rape and incest. Now as far as I know no man will ever need an abortion.
Try getting contraceptives from a christian pharmacist if you're female even if they're married. They'll sell condoms to men though. Talk about double standards.

BTW The theory of Evolution

Maybe they shouldn't teach the theory of gravity, the theory of relativity, the theory of plate tectonics, the theory of computation, the theory of colour, the theory of autointoxication, the theory of linear prediction. I think you get my drift.
I would assume you have never observed an atom? Yet you and everything else is entirely composed of them. I assume you have observed gravity and accepted it as fact yet it is still called the theory of gravity. Nobody calls it the fact of gravity. Evolution is a proven fact many times over. You can nit pick at it as much as you like but believe me you're on a loser.

I wonder what keeps planes in the air? After all isn't flight just a theory? Hmmm.
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