Then I don't follow.Just because God is infinite doesn't mean He can't make Himself known to us.
Yes, it does. We have finite brains. If you want to know the Pacific Ocean and someone gives you a juice glass full of water from it, you cannot say you know the Pacific Ocean in any sense. And that analogy uses a finite body. The point gets more relevant as the ocean gets bigger and eventually becomes infinite. How could a glass of water be relevant as a way to know even a finite ocean?
Now, I do see a potential way out. Omnipotence. yhwh, being able to do anything, would be able to make us know him. But most xians would agree that omnipotence is actually limited. For example, it can only do logically possible things. In addition, if something physically impossible - ie breaks the known laws of the universe - it would require a miracle. And as I have shown, knowing god would break the known laws of the universe. yhwh would have to pack an infinite amount of "knowing" into someone's finite brain and make it possible for that person to comprehend it. Additionally he would have to keep that lucky devil's head from exploding.
For you to use omnipotence as a way out you would have to show that:
1. yhwh's omnipotence is actual and not just reputation
2. the knowledge of yhwh is actually insightful beyond natural human capability, and
3. a miracle has occurred
4. for bonus points, show why, if he really wants everyone in heaven with him, he has he not shared this miracle with with everyone. Specifically, me.
We have that capacity because we were created with it. Not that we can understand everything about Him but, Jesus being the expression of His nature, we can certainly know enough.
Enough? What's enough when infinite more is concealed? For all you know jesus was a ruse, a clever ploy to lure us to goodness knows what horrible eternal fate. yhwh could be like some carnivorous plant that uses sweet smelling flowers to lure in prey.
But not bright enough to grasp reality?
The jury's still out, but the prosecution has made a very solid case.
A better understanding of science means I wouldn't believe in God ?
A better understanding of the scientific method and rationality would prevent you from saying much of the preposterous shit you've said here. Maybe you would still believe in god, but you would not believe some of the peripheral garbage (which may be more harmful than godbelief itself) nor would you believe in god for the same stupid reasons.
Apparently these guys never got that memo:
Irrelevant. Even your crude understanding of science would make many of their eyes pop out of their sockets. They are men in a context. If they knew what you knew (or I knew) they may very well have not believed.
You want to believe.
So did you at some point I'd wager.I just didn't quit like you apparently did.
Ah, so I'm a quitter. Is that it? Maybe I've not told you already, but I have certainly explained on this forum more than once - not believing was not a choice. It was a realization. I realized I no longer believed long after I actually stopped believing. I went through the motions for months.
When I added up everything I knew and actually read the bible
, it was the only conclusion I could come to. It was not about quitting. It was exactly like when I realized there was no Santa Claus. Absolutely no different in any way. Telling me to believe now, on faith, without introducing new facts (actual, supported facts) would be like telling me to believe in Santa again. I have no idea how to do that. Do you? Can you believe in Santa? Go ahead, flip the switch, believe in Santa for the rest of this week. Let me how that goes.
You buy into all the foundational concepts without question
Incorrect once again.I questioned for years .
Which did you question? Because I suspect you and I are not on the same page.
- the idea that faith is a good thing, spirits are real, etc, for example.
Because faith in God is a good thing...
Faith in god is like a tumor. In the best case
scenario, it is benign and doesn't really do anything too bad.
...and spirits are real.
Sure, sure. Spirits. So are witches and goblins and ghosts and pixies and werewolves and chupacabras and yeti. You must find halloween absolutely terrifying.
When physicists hypothesize new particles they must have detailed explanations of how the particles work, including the math behind them. They must also describe what evidence they should have and where and how to find that evidence. Then they do experiments looking for that evidence. If it appears as predicted, voila, knowledge has expanded. If not, back to the drawing board.
The same approach should be taken with "spirits". If they are real, they should leave some evidence, like every other real thing. You should be able to predict that evidence, describe it and where it would be found. Can you? If so, you have a working hypothesis. Your next step would be to gather evidence.
Actually youv'e demonstrated over and again that you know nothing concerning God.
That's funny. I actually laughed
. You must be thinking about a different conversation with a different person. You see, in this conversation, I've said a lot of things that goes against orthodox religion and with which you disagree, but which I have explained thoroughly and supported. You have said some things about mythical people and then supported those things with other mythical people, mythical processes and bald assertions. If I have demonstrated utter ignorance of god, I've missed where that has actually been established.
I have an actual experience with God.
Oooo! Do tell. Be specific and include details.
Like you probably wanted at one time.
Of course I would have wanted that. Heck, if god is real, I still want it. As I've said before, I want to believe what is true.
It may come as a surprise to your over-inflated sense of your own importance but your posts are of no value in regards to the things that matter in a persons life.Sorry.
Oh, that. I think you probably know I don't buy that one and why.
I thought you were talking about more contemporary examples. I thought it was perhaps one of those loony Pentecostals choked on his own tongue in the midst of a "speaking in tongues" fit and the rest of them prayed over him and he awoke with only minor brain damage. Or maybe someone had a heart attack and then miraculously revived (after 5 minutes of CPR and three zaps with a defibrillator). Those seem to be what pass for examples of "raised from the dead" to most xians these days.
In my neighborhood when you made a threat it generally required having something of value to
the other party to use as leverage against them.
It's not a threat. It is the rules here. You should reasonably stay on topic and preaching is not allowed. Enforcing that is part of my role as a moderator - which I have not assumed to this point. I'm just saying, please keep it on topic and don't preach.