Author Topic: You Know What I'm Sick of Hearing?  (Read 398 times)

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Offline Nam

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You Know What I'm Sick of Hearing?
« on: December 14, 2011, 11:56:56 AM »
On the news, in the newspaper, in every day conversation about how this or that person isn't really representing their religion when they kill in the name of their religion.  If it states in their precious holy scripture to kill someone, then, are they really fundamental?  I mean, they seem to be the only one's who are actually, if you think about it, practicing their religion to the letter -- especially if it states for them to do that. Right?

I mean, you have so many religious people (speaking of religious people in general, not picking and choosing which one I'm referring to -- I'm referring to them all) who don't follow what's in their precious scripture and when a person actually does, and does something that they state is the "fundamental" taking the passage out of context etc., it's putting a bad name on their religion.  But if you actually look up the passage, and read what it says, are they really taking it out of context?  Sure, much of holy scriptures preach peace and love but I always thought that they really only preached peace and love to those who were of that particular religion and not to those who weren't?

I mean, aren't they all, basically, a means to conquer others.

I have more respect for the fundamentals than I do for those who pick and choose what they wish to follow.  I may not agree on either end of the spectrum but I still have more respect for those people.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline thunderridge

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Re: You Know What I'm Sick of Hearing?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2011, 12:28:13 PM »
My brother and I have talked about this and we too have more respect for the fundamentals.  Either you are all in or forget about it.  But don't actually forget about religion.  We must keep an eye on those religous folks.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: You Know What I'm Sick of Hearing?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2011, 01:02:45 PM »
I have no respect at all for fundamentalists.  They're using their religious beliefs as an excuse to avoid following society's rules, and the worst of them are using their beliefs to try to turn back the clock or to force others to abide by what they think as right.  Doesn't matter to them who they hurt or what damage they do, as long as they get their way in the end.

Whatever else you say about more normal religious people, i.e. non-fundamentalists, they're not generally inclined to use religion as an excuse to mess with the lives of others.  While they're all too likely to follow the lead of the fundamentalists when those people get fixated on something, the point is that they follow, instead of lead.  Take the fundamentalists out of the equation, and they'd probably just focus on living their lives.

Offline velkyn

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Re: You Know What I'm Sick of Hearing?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2011, 01:32:02 PM »
they are all dickheads who pick and choose, fundamentalists included because even they hvae their own opinions on what their god "really" meant. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Nam

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Re: You Know What I'm Sick of Hearing?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2011, 02:01:31 PM »
Quote from: jaimehlers
I have no respect at all for fundamentalists.  They're using their religious beliefs as an excuse to avoid following society's rules

In religious states such as most of all Middle Eastern countries, are they really fundamentalists in the end even if the outside world sees them as such?  Same with any other non-Islamic religious state.  And, what society are we talking about?  I am pretty sure the society I live in may be different than the society you live in, and we could live in the same nation and that'd still be true.

Quote
Whatever else you say about more normal religious people, i.e. non-fundamentalists, they're not generally inclined to use religion as an excuse to mess with the lives of others.

Bullshit.  They pass legislation in their respective nations every year that goes towards messing with the lives of others. 

Quote
While they're all too likely to follow the lead of the fundamentalists when those people get fixated on something, the point is that they follow, instead of lead.  Take the fundamentalists out of the equation, and they'd probably just focus on living their lives.

Another bullshit statement.  Unless you can provide an adequate example?

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Online jaimehlers

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Re: You Know What I'm Sick of Hearing?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2011, 02:49:23 PM »
In religious states such as most of all Middle Eastern countries, are they really fundamentalists in the end even if the outside world sees them as such?  Same with any other non-Islamic religious state.  And, what society are we talking about?  I am pretty sure the society I live in may be different than the society you live in, and we could live in the same nation and that'd still be true.
By definition, a fundamentalist insists on strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles.  So it doesn't matter if religious fundamentalists happen to be in charge or not, they are still fundamentalists because they use the Bible, or whatever holy book they hew to, strictly and literally for their basic principles.  It does not matter what society they live in.

Quote from: Nam
Bullshit.  They pass legislation in their respective nations every year that goes towards messing with the lives of others.
I think if you actually look at the people sponsoring and pushing for such legislation, you would find that they almost invariably fall under the definition of "religious fundamentalist"; they are trying to pass laws to force other people to abide by their own strict and literal principles.  So instead of trying to pillory some nebulous 'they', religious people in general or whatever you mean, maybe you should look to see where the fault actually lies.

Quote from: Nam
Another bullshit statement.  Unless you can provide an adequate example?
Like you provided adequate examples to support your statements?

I think there's a rule of thumb to the effect that only a minority of people who believe in something actively work towards it.  For example, in a two-party system like ours, only 10-20% of the people in each party actively work to accomplish the goals of that party.  The remainder tend to go along with the flow; they may agree with the goals, and may contribute money to accomplish them, and may vote for them, but they don't exactly work very hard at it.  The same necessarily applies for religious beliefs; most Christians go to church, donate money, etc, but they don't go out and try to convert their neighbors, and they don't spend a lot of time thinking about their religious beliefs.

Offline albeto

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Re: You Know What I'm Sick of Hearing?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2011, 02:51:49 PM »
Whatever else you say about more normal religious people, i.e. non-fundamentalists, they're not generally inclined to use religion as an excuse to mess with the lives of others.  While they're all too likely to follow the lead of the fundamentalists when those people get fixated on something, the point is that they follow, instead of lead.  Take the fundamentalists out of the equation, and they'd probably just focus on living their lives.

Fundamentalism is normal religion.  It's simply a matter of believing the story has more merit. 

Online jaimehlers

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Re: You Know What I'm Sick of Hearing?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 03:59:20 PM »
Fundamentalism is normal religion.  It's simply a matter of believing the story has more merit.
It's pretty obvious we're talking about different things when it comes to 'normal', and 'normal' does not seem a particularly useful term in this context - normal as compared to what?  So to clarify, fundamentalism is religion in its most concentrated and powerful form, which I believe is what you meant.  What I was referring to are the far more numerous people who have significantly-diluted religious beliefs and thus do not fall into the category of fundamentalists.  That should hopefully clarify things for you.