Irrefutable proof that a god exists

[MadBunny]

I am conversing with the ALL BEING..THE ALL KNOWING!  How could I ever be so lucky!  I never thought I would be so honored!
How on earth do you think you know anymore than I or anyone else for that matter?  Please,please tell me that!  Just tell me that!
I do not know how you can look at a flower, a sunset, the internal makeup of a human being to function, a human brain, a spiders web, a human creation and not realize there is a supreme being that is responsible for all of this.  Bacteria-give me a break.  Mosquitoes in heaven, come on.
You simply do not want to humble yourself to the fact  that there is an all being.

Ooh, the Gods plan card.  I love this game.
I'll raise you with a counter card.




So tell us JoeBlow, why is it that us horrible mortals are so easily able to find flaws in this great creator of the Universe?
Haven't you ever noticed that contained within your faith there is absolutely zero information that cannot be had from elsewhere?

Sadly there is nothing unique about your religion, or your god.  Go ahead, try to find something that is unique to Christianity, that hasn't been done elsewhere, or claimed by another religion.

[riley2112]

So tell us JoeBlow, why is it that us horrible mortals are so easily able to find flaws in this great creator of the Universe?
?

.

I am not Joeblow but If you would stop looking for flaws. they may be alittle harder to find. come on , that is funny.

[velkyn]

So tell us JoeBlow, why is it that us horrible mortals are so easily able to find flaws in this great creator of the Universe?
?

.

I am not Joeblow but If you would stop looking for flaws. they may be alittle harder to find. come on , that is funny.

unfortunately, it's not that funny since that's how theists often work.  They cover their eyes and ears and ignore reality.  And sometimes that gets people hurt.

[12 Monkeys]

So tell us JoeBlow, why is it that us horrible mortals are so easily able to find flaws in this great creator of the Universe?
?

.

I am not Joeblow but If you would stop looking for flaws. they may be alittle harder to find. come on , that is funny.

It would be funny if he were not supposed to be 100% perfect in every imaginable way......problem is the people that invented him did not live much past 50 and could not see that far into what the future would be.

[screwtape]

Hi Joe Blow

You are new, so let me point out that the green text indicates that I am assuming my role as a moderator and not a participant.  I am concerned about the impression you have made in such a short period of time.  This type of thing will not win you many friends:

OMG-You all deserve one another!  You all live in your own little world and I wish to hell it was your own little planet!
You are a sick, sick bunch and may God have mercy on your souls.  I hope I am close by on judgement day when you step up and he kicks your asses all the way to hell...that laughter you hear will be mine and that voice yelling "I TOLD YOU SO!" will be mine too.  Have a Hellish Life ya'll.

Gloating about others' suffering?  Indulging in revenge fantasies?  Do you really think with that attitude you will be there and not joining us?

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

I hate it when I have to school xians on xianity.. 

I have to say Joe, your behavior has been anything but christlike.  I have read all of your posts and from the get-go you have been insulting, disrespectful and frankly, a foulmouthed hothead.  In your first post you accused us of "being sick".  You then went on to presume to know what we "secretly" think, without knowing or talking to any of us.  Talk about arrogant and presumptuous. When I first meet people, I ask questions before making any such pronouncements.  Then, when you are challenged on any of your stupid points, you resort to typing in all caps and calling names.  This type of behavior in person would earn you a fat lip.  Yet, you think it is okay to act like this because you are anonymous.  Shame on you, old lady.

I would think that if you wanted to make an impression on us as to how awesome and superduper you god is, then you would behave in a way that does not make you an embarrassment to him.  Unfortunately, you have done the exact opposite.   

Now, if you would like to have a civil conversation, that can happen here.  We have several theists who can behave like people and not savages and they are treated accordingly.  But if you are here to call people names, make presumptuous and ignorant statements, and generally shoot your big, fat, uneducated mouth off, well, your stay will be short and unpleasant.

I suggest you start by reading the Rules  <-- click the link
and the member guide  <-- click the link
Do this before your next post.

If you have questions, you may send a PM (private message) to any staff member.

Regards
 

[ZenZen]

BM

[Samothec]

Snipped for focus

Ooh, the Gods plan card.  I love this game.
I'll raise you with a counter card.
 

Um, MB, I think you might have played Magic the Gathering a little too much.     

I am not Joeblow but If you would stop looking for flaws. they may be a little harder to find. come on , that is funny.

The car companies would love for there to be more support for this viewpoint; they'd save a ton of money on crash-testing.     

[Graybeard]

You can argue until you are blue in the face and you will never change how I believe.

So, tell me, who is close minded? Who is small minded?

I have talked with a medium, several times, even though it is frowned upon in the bible,

So have I. I always wondered why you shouldn't talk to the dead. After all, if they are in heaven, they can tell us what it's like. If they are not, I suppose they serve as a warning.

My medium told me things too that she could not have known. I however, think that there is a rational explanation. I don't know what it is, but it doesn't involve dead people or invisible gods who do nothing.

There are other things that make me believe but do  not want to make this a book.

One at a time then. We'll see if we can have you reason properly and not just say, "I believe, end of!" and "God did it."

[Samothec]

I was raised right.  My parents were good, God believing people who taught me manners, right from wrong, how to behave in public.  My mother was Catholic at one time from a Catholic background.  They never swore, did not drink, never divorced.  She did not work, he did.  Supper always on the table.  Home the way it should be.  I was a very lucky child.  God, religion does not always have to be in a building.

Bold mine.
So, by your own admission, religion is not needed for someone to be a decent person. The various 'holy' books have been shown to be wrong regarding their explanations for how the world works and so they are really only used (by the more intelligent followers) as a moral/spiritual guide. If, as you say, they aren't needed for that purpose, why have religion then?

PS. did you read my reply (post #196 in this thread) to your question to me?

[Hatter23]

You can argue until you are blue in the face and you will never change how I believe.  What I believe comes from my heart.  I was never taught religion. 

1: Whereas all we are asking for evidence, objective evidence and we would change. So much for the so much "close minded" that various theists fling at us

2: You seriously think anyone here buys; "What came from your heart" just matches the most popular religion in the country you are in????? Funny how that works for everyone everywhere, but this God varies widely in shape, morality, and so forth to match that culture. Are you really that stupid??????

[Joe Blow]

Joe Blow,
While offline I pondered the personal information the medium supposedly divined. I'm guessing that you have a land-line phone or cell phone with a calling plan. That means your number will come up on caller ID. Your area code gives them at least the state you called from and the whole number gives the medium your name, your husband's name, and your address. From that information a simple web search can provide a wealth of other personal information unless you have made a determined effort to not give out information including avoiding contests, verifying with every company that they don't sell/share your info, and other efforts some might consider paranoid.

The only way for you to verify to yourself that the medium didn't Google you and then feed your info back to you to deceive you is for you to Google yourself and do your best to find out what is available about you and your husband online. Be aware, there are information companies that scour the web to gather data then sell access to it. The medium could subscribe to such a service so a cursory online search for your own info might not be thorough enough. For you to be sure the medium is genuine you really need to make a diligent effort when Googling yourself.

Actually, I called her. She did not know where I lived nor my phone number nor my last name.  She had nothing but my first name. For the small amount she charged it really would not have been worth the effort to do all the research necessary to fill the hour.  That still does not explain how she knew my  half-sisters name, the part about the racing, the bonuses , the mirror being hung, the library being built, the dancing picture, the motorcycles, what he looked like, my fathers name, that my father in law was deceased,the memorial, the parade float, the two rings, the necklaces I wear, my best friends aunt's name...Olive, how he died and many other things.  She is a very popular medium and I doubt if she has the time to do the research necessary and I did try to google myself and there is very little information on me, certainly not the very personal items she came up with.
Nice try.

[Emily]

I did try to google myself and there is very little information on me, certainly not the very personal items she came up with.
Nice try.

What kind of questions did she ask, and what were your answers to those questions. I am going to assume the questions she asked were very open and she just narrowed the search down. It's like when you do a search in any search engine: you can be very broad with your query, and then click the advanced button and narrow the search down until you reach the hit you were looking for.

She probably had caller-ID, so she knew where you were calling from. With that information alone there are sites out there that reverse search the phone number to see where it's coming from. With that information (and depending how the backsearch site is designed) your full name will be available. From there she could've gone to a site like beenverfied or something and do a search on you to get more information. It's really not that hard to do, and it can be done in a matter of seconds if she has a group of people working with her.

I mean, if I didn't finding it morally wrong and unethical I could probably dox you right here. Of course, I would only get your name, location, some private info like your SSN, DOB, husbands name, etc.  Then I could just trick you into revealing more information, then you'd think I'm some kind of medium too.

For example, just go to this site and do a quick search on your phone number: http://www.spokeo.com/

You will be very surprised, and you weren't using all the tools that are on the internet.

And you say she had nothing but your first. So then, you did appear on her caller ID and she just claimed to have not known your last name. What kind of medium wouldn't know all there is about the caller right when he or she calls? She probably wasn't really good. If anything she would know your last name also (if she was any good, I mean).

What kind of questions did she ask? What were your responses to those questions?

EDIT: And you talk about a small amount she charged verse her effort to use resources. I don't know how much she charged so I will just round the number to 10 because it's easy. Say she charges 10 dollars per call and a reverse search site charges 1 dollars, she's making off with 9 dollars from you. If you talk to her for an hour, then she takes another call for an hour she's earning 81 bucks a day. Sites that know our information don't cost that much for a subscription, so in the end she's walking away with a profit deceiving others based on those sites finds.  A simple google search wont reveal too much; but there are thousands of sites out there that will reveal your information.

From a security standpoint it's called social engineering . Be careful next time.

[Ambassador Pony]

IMO, what happens when you count the hits and ignore the misses is, over time, your memory of the event becomes even more selective. I doubt JoeBlow could tell you what those questions were with any accuracy, especially with regard to sequence. Only the memories which reinforce the conclusion will be recalled with ease.

 

[riley2112]

Joe Blow,
While offline I pondered the personal information the medium supposedly divined. I'm guessing that you have a land-line phone or cell phone with a calling plan. That means your number will come up on caller ID. Your area code gives them at least the state you called from and the whole number gives the medium your name, your husband's name, and your address. From that information a simple web search can provide a wealth of other personal information unless you have made a determined effort to not give out information including avoiding contests, verifying with every company that they don't sell/share your info, and other efforts some might consider paranoid.

The only way for you to verify to yourself that the medium didn't Google you and then feed your info back to you to deceive you is for you to Google yourself and do your best to find out what is available about you and your husband online. Be aware, there are information companies that scour the web to gather data then sell access to it. The medium could subscribe to such a service so a cursory online search for your own info might not be thorough enough. For you to be sure the medium is genuine you really need to make a diligent effort when Googling yourself.

Actually, I called her. She did not know where I lived nor my phone number nor my last name.  She had nothing but my first name. For the small amount she charged it really would not have been worth the effort to do all the research necessary to fill the hour.  That still does not explain how she knew my  half-sisters name, the part about the racing, the bonuses , the mirror being hung, the library being built, the dancing picture, the motorcycles, what he looked like, my fathers name, that my father in law was deceased,the memorial, the parade float, the two rings, the necklaces I wear, my best friends aunt's name...Olive, how he died and many other things.  She is a very popular medium and I doubt if she has the time to do the research necessary and I did try to google myself and there is very little information on me, certainly not the very personal items she came up with.
Nice try.

The small amount she charged? You called her. May I ask how she was paid? Credit Card perhaps?

[ParkingPlaces]

We need to know who this medium is. Why she is still practicing when she could get a million bucks from James Randi by proving she is for read is beyond me, but tell us who she is so we too can experience the wonder of her incredible talents. I'll call her up and tell her who I am and where I live and give her all sorts of clues and then see if she can get even one thing right about me. Even one. Not generic crap like "You have several legs", but stuff like my kids names or where my grandmother grew up or whatever. If she gets even one frickin' thing right I'll eat my words.

In other words, I don't believe you.

[velkyn]

I called her. She did not know where I lived nor my phone number nor my last name.  She had nothing but my first name. For the small amount she charged it really would not have been worth the effort to do all the research necessary to fill the hour.  That still does not explain how she knew my  half-sisters name, the part about the racing, the bonuses , the mirror being hung, the library being built, the dancing picture, the motorcycles, what he looked like, my fathers name, that my father in law was deceased,the memorial, the parade float, the two rings, the necklaces I wear, my best friends aunt's name...Olive, how he died and many other things.  She is a very popular medium and I doubt if she has the time to do the research necessary and I did try to google myself and there is very little information on me, certainly not the very personal items she came up with.
Nice try.

I can pretty much be sure that Joe was a victim of cold reading.  I can just hear the call know.
Medium:  And your sister, her name is <insert common name here>?
Joe: No it’s <other common name>
Medium: Of course, I knew it was a common name.

and so on, all perfectly understandable and for someone who is ignorant in such things, very believable since they already want to believe it. 

I’m also amused that a “good Christian” uses a medium.  There’s a lot about false prophets, and not trusting fortune tellers in the bible.

[MadBunny]

  <-- here is an example.


  <-- here is an explanation.

Not to get overly side tracked.

[Hatter23]

I’m also amused that a “good Christian” uses a medium.  There’s a lot about false prophets, and not trusting fortune tellers in the bible.

Yes but remember there's also positives about them....such as the three Kings following a Star, the prohpesy of King Herod, and so forth. One can find Biblical support for just about any batshit insane idea in the world.

[Aaron123]

I’m also amused that a “good Christian” uses a medium.  There’s a lot about false prophets, and not trusting fortune tellers in the bible.

Two things to consider.

1) Most christians do not read their bible.  So they're not even aware that using a medium is a no-no.

2) It's a sign that they're desperate for magic.  Deep down, they know that the world operates as though no god is involved.  They don't like that.  They want to see magic, and they're desperate for it, that they're willing to seek non-christian forms of hocus-pocus.

[Samothec]

I pointed out operant conditioning and suggested the medium did a cold reading back in post # 136 of this thread and Joe Blow claimed no - impossible. But she ignores what she doesn't want to answer or even consider. She (deliberately?) misread my post # 196 saying that she called the medium - not a question I asked - I was suggesting caller ID was used. In her post # 132 she says she "talked with a medium, several times, even though it is frowned upon in the bible".

We've repeatedly surrounded the idea, poked and prodded it but she won't acknowledge any possibility other than the medium is real. I think Aaron123 hit it on the head:

2) It's a sign that they're desperate for magic.  Deep down, they know that the world operates as though no god is involved.  They don't like that.  They want to see magic, and they're desperate for it, that they're willing to seek non-christian forms of hocus-pocus.

Sorry, Joe

[Anfauglir]

You DO NOT know my religion better than I do.  Just what makes you think you do? 

Guys, Joe Blow is at least right on this one.  There is no way that we could know HER religion better than she does, because she makes it up to suit herself.  Witness:

I do not live by the Bible, I just said the Bible was against it.

What I believe comes from my heart.  I was never taught religion. 

I have talked with a medium, several times, even though it is frowned upon in the bible

KISS THE ASS THAT GOD GAVE ME!

Where the hell did "Fallen Angel-Lucifer" come from????? That is STRAIGHT out of the Bible and from GOD!

Not a clue about what it actually says in the Bible - not that she would do what it says even if she had bothered to crack it open.

So yes, Joe - you are right.  We have no idea what your religion is, because its a hodge-podge of "feelings" and half-heard and misundertood snatches from various faiths.

Which is fine - but please stop trying to pass off something you have made up to suit yourself as in any way profound or true.