Author Topic: Irrefutable proof that a god exists  (Read 9057 times)

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Offline Emily

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #116 on: December 26, 2011, 03:40:59 PM »
There is one member I know of who's 18. Shit, if only I thought like he does when I was 18.

Is it me? =D

Yes indeed. 

Tell me what was wrong with prayer in school, One Nation UNDER GOD in the pledge  and Nativity Scenes in the town square Do you agree it should all have been taken away?

I do, simply because the United States is founded as a secular nation. The Treaty of Tripoli even says so, signed by John Adams in 1797.

Here's article 11:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

The government has no right to force a specific religion on others. And believe it or not, no one is barred from prayer in school as long as they do it in private, but to have an entire school pray to a specific god infringes on the rights of those who don't believe in that specific god, or any god. Same with in public places. America was founded on secular principles with no specific god to be worshiped, but rather a freedom of religion for anyone to believe how they wish.
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Offline rev45

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #117 on: December 26, 2011, 03:41:07 PM »
Looks like grandpa forgot to take his medicine again. 

Trolls are usually good for at least a chuckle but this one bores me.
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Offline Joe Blow

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #118 on: December 26, 2011, 03:44:39 PM »
Probably pretty easy to bore you, small minds are like that.

Online jetson

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #119 on: December 26, 2011, 03:46:13 PM »
Probably pretty easy to bore you, small minds are like that.

Joe Blow - do you have any irrefutable evidence that there is a god?

Online One Above All

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #120 on: December 26, 2011, 03:48:18 PM »
Yes indeed.

*Not sure if serious or sarcastic*
FYI: I was kidding with that question. It was just to let Joe know that I am 18.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #121 on: December 26, 2011, 03:48:35 PM »
They would beleve in it if their parents had raised them right which goes right back to what I said is wrong with this country and what is wrong with you all and why you do not believe in God!

Good parenting does not necessarily include religious indoctrination.  In fact, I'd say it's quite the contrary: good parenting should include a strong emphasis on critical thinking, which is something that religion is usually pretty strongly opposed to.

Quote
YOU ARE TOO DAMN YOUNG AND WERE NOT RAISED RIGHT!

My upbringing has nothing to do with this.  As to my age, let me say this: I majored in philosophy, meaning I spent four solid years spending most of my waking hours studying and thinking about things like whether deities exist.  I finished with a 3.6 GPA at a college with a very challenging curriculum.  (And even after all that, by the way, I wouldn't say that I'm the best informed person at WWGHA about the subject, either.)  Do not presume to tell me that my lack of religious belief is due to my age or upbringing.  Neither is relevant.

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I will pray for you

And I will think for you.

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even though you hate it

Back at you!

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and pray that God blesses your souls.

Souls don't exist.

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NOW GRIND THE TEETH THAT GOD GAVE YOU OVER THAT AND USE THE BRAIN THAT GOD GAVE YOU TO GET REALLY, REALLY PISSED OFF!

Oh, atheists have a lot to be angry about, all right.

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AND KISS THE ASS THAT GOD GAVE ME!

And here we have yet another exhibition of the love and compassion that Christians claim to have.  Every time I see a Christian say something like this to an atheist, it pushes me even further away from the religion, if that's even possible.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #122 on: December 26, 2011, 03:48:51 PM »
Probably pretty easy to bore you, small minds are like that.
Small mind, eh? I'd be interested in your response to my post here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,20888.msg466805.html#msg466805
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline riley2112

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #123 on: December 26, 2011, 04:05:19 PM »
Oh well let's nit-pick!  I am addressing the FEW that are reading this thread who seem to have closed minds..  I am assuming that the some of others of the hundreds/thousands of readers will be wise enough to come to their senses.
Joe I believe in God , and I think everybody here would believe also, if they had some evidence that pointed to God. They have not found any evidence that is Strong enough for them to believe. What really bugs me is the fact that they have some pretty good reasons why God does not exist. So relax, don't get upset(even though I do from time to time) These people seem to be OK. (just a little misguided( thought you would like that Lucifer
 &) Oh yea. I am 54 , you know , It seems that people start thinking more about God once you pass that 50 mark, maybe we are just trying to get into Heaven if one is there, and I believe there is.  Or is this just pascal's wager at it worst. I think it is important to know why you feel and believe the way you do. This cite has helped me do just that. So relax and check the place out , it is very interesting and educational
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #124 on: December 26, 2011, 04:06:49 PM »
They would beleve in it if their parents had raised them right which goes right back to what I said is wrong with this country and what is wrong with you all and why you do not believe in God!   YOU ARE TOO DAMN YOUNG AND WERE NOT RAISED RIGHT!

There are two questions I have for you.

1) It is the day after christmas.  "Peace on Earth, and goodwill towards men".  Why do you fail to extend that goodwill?

2) Jesus said "Judge NOT, lest ye be judged".  Why do you disobey your lord and savior?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Online One Above All

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #125 on: December 26, 2011, 04:10:19 PM »
These people seem to be OK. (just a little misguided( thought you would like that Lucifer

What's that supposed to mean? :S
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #126 on: December 26, 2011, 04:15:20 PM »
These people seem to be OK. (just a little misguided( thought you would like that Lucifer

What's that supposed to mean? :S
He is nice enough to tell you you are wrong. The fact that he agrees there is no evidence,and its just belief on his part YOU ARE WRONG :P
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Samothec

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #127 on: December 26, 2011, 04:16:24 PM »
edited to correct my name
Samothec-What the?
A light-year is a measure of distance. If you used a bit of logic you would have realize a light-mile is a measure of time: the time it takes for light to travel one mile.
1 minute = 11.177 million light-miles
You would be at least 393,598,318 million light-miles but less than 399,472,920 million light-miles.
I'm not using trillion or billion because for some readers it would be 393.598318 trillion light-miles while for others it would be 393.598318 billion light-miles.
Have I mentioned I'm a bit weird?    :D

 
The lack of belief in God is one thing tearing this country apart.  Taking prayer out of school and making any reference to God almost a crime is helping put this country into the toilet.

Lack of personal responsibility is what is tearing America apart. Suing someone because they didn't warn you that the hot coffee was hot. Blaming the devil for one's own bad behavior. Blaming atheists for trying to have the Constitution enforced – freedom of religion absolutely requires freedom from others' religion. Blaming gays and lesbians for the moral decay when it is one's own failing that caused the adultery.
Most Xians don't seem to understand the Constitutional issues – Jews and Moslems don't want Xians pushing their religion on them either and they are Constitutionally guaranteed that they don't need to have Xianity shoved down their throats.

I have seen evidence that the spirit does live on but there is no sense getting into it on here.  You all have closed minds and talking to you would be like talking to the wall.

Some peoples' minds might be closed but not everyone's is. Please present your evidence.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline riley2112

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #128 on: December 26, 2011, 04:19:11 PM »
I majored in philosophy,
figures , I would think that there are  a few people on here that studied philosophy, most of you talk like my philosophy 101 proffessor. &) which means I will never win an argument on here

Quote
Quote
I will pray for you

And I will think for you.

Quote
even though you hate it

Back at you!
just funny, I love it.

Quote
AND KISS THE ASS THAT GOD GAVE ME!

Quote
And here we have yet another exhibition of the love and compassion that Christians claim to have.  Every time I see a Christian say something like this to an atheist, it pushes me even further away from the religion, if that's even possible
.
[/quote] He has a point Joe, How can we claim to praise a God that we believe in and then turn around and talk like that to someone. pissed or not.
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Offline riley2112

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #129 on: December 26, 2011, 04:20:26 PM »
These people seem to be OK. (just a little misguided( thought you would like that Lucifer

What's that supposed to mean? :S
just joking ,, really.  :laugh: a vain attemp at humor
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 04:22:16 PM by riley2112 »
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Offline Samothec

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #130 on: December 26, 2011, 04:21:45 PM »
Post scriptum: From personal experience, once most people reach ~50, they tend to be close-minded and project themselves a lot. Getting the hint? ;)

Sorry to have to be the one to point this out to you but older people have been saying 'those darn kids don't know anything' for as long as written history.  That's the way it works.

Hey! Age-bashing now?!
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Online One Above All

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #131 on: December 26, 2011, 04:23:13 PM »
These people seem to be OK. (just a little misguided( thought you would like that Lucifer

What's that supposed to mean? :S
just joking ,, really.  :laugh:

I'm not angry. I honestly do not understand what you meant.
I hope 12 Monkeys' post was accurate, because it's the only one I understood.

Hey! Age-bashing now?!

I'm simply stating what I learned from personal experience. It's not their fault, nor does it happen to everyone.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Joe Blow

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #132 on: December 26, 2011, 04:30:11 PM »
Riley2112-Wow-Someone with some sense and intelligence and polite too-how refreshing!  Thanks! Just when I had given up hope.

Greybeard-You strike me as being very pompous.  It is very evident you are much better educated than I so there is no sense trying to debate you.  You can argue until you are blue in the face and you will never change how I believe.  What I believe comes from my heart.  I was never taught religion.  My parents did not go to church nor did they send me.  I went on my own when I was old enough although did not attend regularly.
I have prayed and not all of prayers have come true, some have.
I have talked with a medium, several times, even though it is frowned upon in the bible, and she (only knowing my first name, over the telephone) told me things for an hour that no one else could have possibly known except my beloved husband ,who  died 6 months earlier.  I did not feed her answers..all she allowed were yes and no answers, nothing else.   She told me that a father, father in law and husband (all deceased)were there and proceeded to give me their names-correctly! She went on to describe my husband, how he died, what he did for a living, our life together, his monument I had designed,a mirror I had just hung the day before, Christmas bonuses I had just paid the men who had worked for him,what we did for hobbies, the first picture we had taken together, a Mayor's trophy we won in a parade I had forgotten all about (she said they do this to prove she is not reading my mind),about his two rings I had on while we were speaking and on and on for the entire conversation.  I have the tape of the call.  I have spoken with her twice since.  I also saw John Edward, live and I believe my husband came through then but I did not pick up on it until too late.  Now if there is nothing after we die can someone explain all of this to me?  I was not thinking of any of this while she was talking, I was too busy crying.
He said he no longer hurt and that we were supposed to die together but something happened to change that.  He also said he would wait for me.  He also told her to tell me I was right.  We used to argue about life after death and I used to tell him he could not prove it did not exist the same as I could not prove it did but I believed in it and that was what he meant by my being right.  When I explained that to her she laughed and said yes, he was laughing too and said yes that was what he meant.
There are other things that make me believe but do  not want to make this a book.

Offline MadBunny

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #133 on: December 26, 2011, 04:30:30 PM »
I majored in philosophy,
figures , I would think that there are  a few people on here that studied philosophy, most of you talk like my philosophy 101 proffessor. &) which means I will never win an argument on here


Actually it's pretty easy to win arguments on this site.
The trick to it is to simply present evidence rather than speculation.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline riley2112

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #134 on: December 26, 2011, 04:32:34 PM »
I majored in philosophy,
figures , I would think that there are  a few people on here that studied philosophy, most of you talk like my philosophy 101 proffessor. &) which means I will never win an argument on here


Actually it's pretty easy to win arguments on this site.
The trick to it is to simply present evidence rather than speculation.
yea, I seem to have a problem with that, but I am working on it.  :laugh:
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Online One Above All

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #135 on: December 26, 2011, 04:37:49 PM »
I have talked with a medium, several times, even though it is frowned upon in the bible, and she (only knowing my first name, over the telephone) told me things for an hour that no one else could have possibly known except my beloved husband ,who  died 6 months earlier.

Two things
1: Why did you do something that is frowned upon in the Bible?
2: Are you a non-heterosexual theist or is "Joe" just a random name you came up with?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Samothec

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #136 on: December 26, 2011, 04:41:57 PM »
I have prayed and not all of prayers have come true, some have.

The problem with prayer is that it is a type of operant conditioning – like gambling. We mainly remember just the positive outcomes and not the massive numbers of negative outcomes. We also rationalize things after-the-fact unintentionally misremembering what exactly the prayer was and thinking it was answered.

I have talked with a medium, several times, even though it is frowned upon in the bible, and she (only knowing my first name, over the telephone) told me things for an hour that no one else could have possibly known except my beloved husband ,who  died 6 months earlier.  I did not feed her answers..all she allowed were yes and no answers, nothing else.   She told me that a father, father in law and husband (all deceased)were there and proceeded to give me their names-correctly! She went on to describe my husband, how he died, what he did for a living, our life together, his monument I had designed,a mirror I had just hung the day before, Christmas bonuses I had just paid the men who had worked for him,what we did for hobbies, the first picture we had taken together, a Mayor's trophy we won in a parade I had forgotten all about (she said they do this to prove she is not reading my mind),about his two rings I had on while we were speaking and on and on for the entire conversation.  I have the tape of the call.  I have spoken with her twice since

Cold readings and operant conditioning are at work with mediums. Even with yes/no answers, an experienced medium listens carefully to pauses, indrawn breath, outright gasps, etc which give things away. If you choose to, listen to your tape again but with a critical ear for the ways you unintentionally gave her clues.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline Joe Blow

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #137 on: December 26, 2011, 04:49:18 PM »
You like to pick and argue, don't you?  It is a name I picked-my choice-same as yours "Lucifer".
 I do not live by the Bible, I just said the Bible was against it.
 I wanted proof of life after death and I got it.  You all wanted me to back up what I said about knowing there was life after death so I did, now I know you are going to pick it to pieces.  I know what I heard and no one is going to convince me that my husband  (I am a woman) was not talking to me from the other side.  I also have had a couple of experiences with him in this house while I was moving in, of playing with the lights in front of 5 other people until I told him to stop because he was scaring them and I was afraid my contractors were going to walk off the job.
The house is an 1898 Victorian and is haunted, this too can be substantiated by numerous people.  If we turn into nothing when we die, explain ghosts.
There is a sanitarium close to here that is one of the most famous haunted places in the States. Documented on tv several times.

Online One Above All

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #138 on: December 26, 2011, 04:56:01 PM »
You like to pick and argue, don't you?  It is a name I picked-my choice-same as yours "Lucifer".

It's called "curiosity". Without it, we'd still be in the Dark Ages. But I can see why that scares you. After all, if people try to learn, they will realize what a load of crap religion is.

I do not live by the Bible, I just said the Bible was against it.

Then your god is not the one described in the Bible, right? Or are you a cherry picker - you believe in some things but not others, using a magic decoder ring?

I wanted proof of life after death and I got it.

I never got this - how can there be life after life ceases (death)?

You all wanted me to back up what I said about knowing there was life after death so I did, now I know you are going to pick it to pieces.

It's really not that hard when you're not even willing to analyze what happened and just go with whatever makes you feel most comfortable.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Joe Blow

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #139 on: December 26, 2011, 04:57:55 PM »
Samothec-Explain the NAMES, the hobbies of jet-boat Racing, riding motor-cycles, the odd-shape of the memorial stone, the picture of us dANCING, a MIRROR being hung, her describing him having an aneurysm of the aorta,paying the bonus money,the TWO rings, my sister's name, the library I was having built in the house I was moving into, the parade float, etc.  There was no intake of breath...I was crying too hard.  I did re-listen to the tapes, just last week in fact.
I would agree if she were speaking in generalities but she was giving me specifics!

Offline riley2112

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #140 on: December 26, 2011, 05:02:52 PM »
Samothec-Explain the NAMES, the hobbies of jet-boat Racing, riding motor-cycles, the odd-shape of the memorial stone, the picture of us dANCING, a MIRROR being hung, her describing him having an aneurysm of the aorta,paying the bonus money,the TWO rings, my sister's name, the library I was having built in the house I was moving into, the parade float, etc.  There was no intake of breath...I was crying too hard.  I did re-listen to the tapes, just last week in fact.
I would agree if she were speaking in generalities but she was giving me specifics!
It does sound like you had a very intense experience . You may have already said and I just missed it , but , how long ago did your husband die?
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Offline Joe Blow

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #141 on: December 26, 2011, 05:03:16 PM »
Oh ho Lucifer-I see you are dancing around everything I said about what the medium told me.  Making you a little uncomfortable?  It does not fit in with your belief that we become nothing when we die does it.  You would rather argue about what you think I should be doing in regard to my love of God and the Bible and everything that goes along with it.
Can't explain it can you. ;)

Offline Joe Blow

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #142 on: December 26, 2011, 05:04:56 PM »
He died June 29,2003 on the operating table at age 60.  We thought he had the flu.  Same thing that got John Ritter.  Completely unexpected.   

Offline Joe Blow

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #143 on: December 26, 2011, 05:10:05 PM »
!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 05:15:50 PM by Joe Blow »

Offline Samothec

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Re: Irrefutable proof that a god exists
« Reply #144 on: December 26, 2011, 05:11:32 PM »
Samothec-Explain the NAMES, the hobbies of jet-boat Racing, riding motor-cycles, the odd-shape of the memorial stone, the picture of us dANCING, a MIRROR being hung, her describing him having an aneurysm of the aorta,paying the bonus money,the TWO rings, my sister's name, the library I was having built in the house I was moving into, the parade float, etc.  There was no intake of breath...I was crying too hard.  I did re-listen to the tapes, just last week in fact.
I would agree if she were speaking in generalities but she was giving me specifics!

I would need to hear the tapes to see if I can explain it. I might not be able to - I don't have all the answers. I have never seen/heard proof (or even good evidence) of ghosts or life-after-death. I stated what I know - that there are very often other explanations. Unfortunately almost all of the "investigations" are not done by someone reliable so there is no proof yet just anecdotes.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther