Good Evening 12 Monkeys,
Thanks for the response. I’m going to assume that your response. . .
Please SC give it a try,i would like to see your thoughts on this.
is in answer to this question.
The second question (“how to resolve God commanding to kill someone?”) is the complicated one. Is that the one you mean?
If I’m wrong, let me know.
I’ll try. It’s interesting that our situation here proves my point earlier about Judas. I think that no matter what I say, you’re not going to be convinced. I’ve explained these things to other people, such as in RCIA, and they are convinced. Obviously, I’m not Jesus and you’re not Judas, but I think you see the point.
You ask a few more questions below. They’re not unrelated and we can try to incorporate them into the conversation. However, screwtape and I are working things out for the debate and we hope to start it soon. We’ll continue our conversation until we do. Is that okay? I also have two “assignments” to do. One is to prepare for an RCIA class on Church History from about 1304 AD to modern times. (Fitting all that into an hour and a half is a challenge!) The other is to prepare for a debate on “The Problems of the Bible.” Interestingly enough, I get to be the attacker. Both of those are going to take my free time over the next couple of weeks.
The one question of your response I don’t get is this one. . .
Then maybe we can figure out why a single God is indeed that,. . .
is indeed “what”? I’m not sure what the “that” is referring to. I know references like this seem obvious when you’re writing them, but they’re not always clear when reading. If you don’t mind my saying so, I recommend using fewer pronouns and more direct references. I think it helps the understanding and moves the conversation along quicker. But then, maybe it’s just me. If you help me understand what you’re referring to, then I’ll respond to that question, also.
,and (1) why does it take him more than one try to not exclude all races. In fact (2) why he ordered the killings of other races in the first place, (3) why would God exclude all races for one, (4) only to change his mind and include all by one act from Judas?
Btw, I’m not sure why you’re asking these questions in light of the current thread. You yelled at me quite a bit when I got off topic in your thread about Satan. However, let me respond to your questions, as I understand them, with a few examples. As before, if I’ve misunderstood you, please correct me. I’ve numbered them, except for the first, which I don’t understand, so that I can easily refer to them below.
You ask (3). God has always had the plan for the inclusion of all people into his salvation. (There’s a sub-topic here about people who don’t know Jesus, but let’s not go there. We have enough sub-topics as it is.) Starting from the beginning, we have Adam and Eve who were the parents of the entire human race and the entire human race would have benefited from their obedience. The Bible gives examples of God revealing himself to people outside of the Israelites. Abraham was obviously not an Israelite. Melchizedek, the king of Salem, was a believer. The king of Sodom knew of Abraham’s God. Multiple Pharoahs and the Egyptian people would have known and had opportunity to believe, especially after they saw the power of God. Jonah was sent to Nineveh and the entire city repented. Naaman from Syria came to Elisha to be healed. The Magi from the East followed the star to Jesus. In the Bible there are many places were God revealed himself in one way or another to those outside of Israel.
The Bible prophecies also talk of the nations worshiping God, the covenants with Abraham and Jacob and, for example, as do the psalms. God did not exclude all races for one. In fact, the reason for the one race, Israel, was so that they would be a light to the rest of the nations. By their example the other nations were to have repented and believed. Israel was the firstborn of many nations.
That also answers (4). God did not change his mind. It was always part of the plan.
You ask (2). Since you’re not specific, I’ll take that question as referring to the Canaanites. If I’m wrong let me know. What do you know about the religion, practices, etc. of the Canaanites? Both from the Bible or other sources, we know that the Canaanites were very depraved, and involved in bestiality, incest, molestation, homosexuality, prostitution, and sacrificing their children to idols. God gave them time to repent – the four hundred some years the Israelites were in Egypt – but they did not. Sodom was another city engaged in this depravity. God agreed to spare it if 10 innocent people could be found. They couldn’t and so it was destroyed. This time God was using the Israelites.
By the way, even the Israelites were not immune from this judgment. They worshipped the Canaanite gods and engaged in some of the behavior. Because of that they lost their home, too, and were exiled. They were not destroyed (although the 10 northern tribes are lost) because God is faithful to the covenant.
The Canaanites also knew who God was, that God had given the Israelites the land, and that God had done wondrous things for them. Yet they still did not repent. Some did, the Gibeonites, for example, who knew that God commanded Moses that the Israelites be given the land. They feared the Lord and the Israelites.
The herem warfare wasn’t genocide as some claim. It was done as capital punishment for the sins committed. It also wasn’t intended to be complete, but only for those in the land of Canaan. There were others outside the boundary that were not to be killed in the same manner.
Looking back at “(1) why does it take him more than one try to not exclude all races” I guess I don’t know what you mean by this question, either. What do you mean?