Author Topic: When Was Jesus Born Again?  (Read 9868 times)

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Offline Truth OT

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When Was Jesus Born Again?
« on: December 09, 2011, 10:39:44 AM »
This webpage: http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/books/secrets/Chapter9.cfm
 claims to answer/rectify the apparent error between Matthew's account of the birth of Jesus and Luke's.
I'm feeling kinda lazy and frankly I just don't wanna undergo a history lesson on the time period at the moment in order to respond to the person that referred me to this website. Anyone willing to help?

Offline Nick

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2011, 11:25:08 AM »
Jesus can be born anytime you want...he is imaginary.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 11:41:24 AM »
The problem is, your question assumes he was born at all. That has yet to be established.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline velkyn

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 12:22:36 PM »
basically what hatter and nick said.  That website is the usual Christian attempting shoehorn heir nonsense into existing events with no evidence.  There is no evidence of any census that everyone had to go back to their natal towns/cities.  There is no evidence of any "massacre". 

It makes claims of how old Moses was and how it was "exactly" the age of JC when taken to Egypt.  The way they get the date is by this claim of August Caesar
Quote
When I held my thirteenth consulship, the senate, the equestrian order, and the entire Roman people gave me the title of "Father of the Country."

And these people want to claim that each individual person in the empire had to agree to give that title to him.
then
Quote
We have seen that the Roman Senate passed a decree making Augustus Caesar the Father of the Country in February of 2 B.C., which everyone in the Empire had to ratify in the following year. Joseph and Mary had to go to Bethlehem for this registration. There Jesus was born in September of that year.
this sounds just a mite ridiculous considering the empire. 

it's also pretty hilarious that the bible, that wonderous font of truth, forgets to mention this and simply says
Quote
luke 2:1 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. 2 (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) 3 And everyone went to their own town to register.

I also love how these particular Chrsitains run to Roman writers to prove their nonsense, but when they get offended that we ask for evidence for JC, they show how piecemeal the history is for various Romans.  Hypocrites.  and of course, the last bit of the page is all about how those "other" Christians are wrong.  Gee, sounds like another set of canddiates to take the altar challenge.
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Offline Brakeman

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 12:24:31 PM »
So when Jesus was baptized, was that signifying his 3rd rebirth?
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Offline Backspace

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, 02:43:38 PM »
So when Jesus was baptized, was that signifying his 3rd rebirth?

And when he was circumcised, was he making a covenant with himself?
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2011, 03:34:45 PM »
So when Jesus was baptized, was that signifying his 3rd rebirth?

And when he was circumcised, was he making a covenant with himself?

Given the extremity invovled, I really had to suppress laughing histerically at this.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 09:11:09 AM »
Geez, does this guy know a thing about the Roman Empire?  People who weren't actually Romans - which would include the Jews of Palestine - certainly wouldn't have been included in this ratification, and the whole concept is a little silly to begin with.

Offline Asmodeus

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2011, 11:40:12 PM »
The problem is, your question assumes he was born at all. That has yet to be established.

You sir deserve a cookie!

Offline free

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2011, 08:06:14 AM »
Are you asking to be reminded of when he was born?  Or when was he a born-again?

I would love to think Xtians worshipping a Born Again Messiah!

Offline jetson

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2011, 12:13:33 PM »
Jesus is born every time a Christian opens his/her mouth.  I'm growing tired of it myself.

Offline richie p

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2011, 10:46:16 PM »
hi gentleman i see your expressing thoughts and veiws on christian topics involving the bible id like to share my personal testimony....

Wall of text removed by Mod - Richie, if you want to post again, please can you:

1) Break up your text into sentences and paragraphs.
2) Ensure your post addresses the questions asked in the particular thread.

These two steps will make it a lot easier for other forum members to interact with you.


« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 01:55:22 AM by Anfauglir »

Offline JeffPT

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2011, 10:55:24 PM »
No puntuation, no caps, no spacing....

You don't have to read a single word and you know this must be from a Christian. 

Sorry richie p.  Although I am sure its just chock full of useful insights ...  &)  ...  TL;DR.   
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Online Azdgari

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2011, 10:58:39 PM »
If the writer can't be bothered to format it, then even the writer must have a low opinion of the words...
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2011, 11:07:27 PM »
richie p, I can't read your post.  Put in some paragraphs, spacing, puntuation, etc.

If you want people to read your stuff, the most important thing is to be readable.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2011, 11:27:38 PM »
@ Nick, Hatter and Vel

I am in no position to prove or disprove anything and do not wish to argue the "finer" points of what I am about to say. I just want to make a point that as far as "lack of evidence" for Jesus goes, there is more evidence of his existence than there is for my great great great grandmother. No one currently alive in my family can trace back that far. There is no record of her birth. There is no record of her death. There is no mention of her anywhere on the face of this planet.

I understand the argument that if Jesus was sooo popular and performed all these miracles then why no mention by historians at the time. The parallels of the Jesus story and other older ones. The distinct possibility that the writers of the new testament simply created this character in order to fulfill old testament prophecies etc. 

But as far as proof goes, there is still more evidence of his existence than my maternal lineage if you go back more than a couple hundred years.

Just sayin
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Online Azdgari

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 02:20:58 AM »
To all:  If you wish to respond to Richie's mega-post, I re-formatted a copy and posted it here.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2011, 11:30:46 AM »
@ Nick, Hatter and Vel
I am in no position to prove or disprove anything and do not wish to argue the "finer" points of what I am about to say. I just want to make a point that as far as "lack of evidence" for Jesus goes, there is more evidence of his existence than there is for my great great great grandmother. No one currently alive in my family can trace back that far. There is no record of her birth. There is no record of her death. There is no mention of her anywhere on the face of this planet.
  Nice baseless claim.  So, show how much more there is about JC. 

Quote
I understand the argument that if Jesus was sooo popular and performed all these miracles then why no mention by historians at the time. The parallels of the Jesus story and other older ones. The distinct possibility that the writers of the new testament simply created this character in order to fulfill old testament prophecies etc. 
But as far as proof goes, there is still more evidence of his existence than my maternal lineage if you go back more than a couple hundred years.

Just sayin

yep, "just sayin" with again no evidence to support your claims.  You are the evidence that there was at least a woman who was your great etc grandmother.   Evidence for Jesus Christ son of god, and miracle worker, the character in the bible and not some itinerant rabbi,  as a real person?  Zilch.
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Online Azdgari

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 11:33:21 AM »
I am in no position to prove or disprove anything and do not wish to argue the "finer" points of what I am about to say. I just want to make a point that as far as "lack of evidence" for Jesus goes, there is more evidence of his existence than there is for my great great great grandmother. No one currently alive in my family can trace back that far. There is no record of her birth. There is no record of her death. There is no mention of her anywhere on the face of this planet.

There's waaaay more evidence for your grandmother's existence, Jay.  You are that evidence.  Unless you somehow managed not to exist without having a maternal grandmother, you are proof positive that she existed.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2011, 01:04:05 AM »
@ Nick, Hatter and Vel

I am in no position to prove or disprove anything and do not wish to argue the "finer" points of what I am about to say. I just want to make a point that as far as "lack of evidence" for Jesus goes, there is more evidence of his existence than there is for my great great great grandmother. No one currently alive in my family can trace back that far. There is no record of her birth. There is no record of her death. There is no mention of her anywhere on the face of this planet.

I understand the argument that if Jesus was sooo popular and performed all these miracles then why no mention by historians at the time. The parallels of the Jesus story and other older ones. The distinct possibility that the writers of the new testament simply created this character in order to fulfill old testament prophecies etc. 

But as far as proof goes, there is still more evidence of his existence than my maternal lineage if you go back more than a couple hundred years.

Just sayin

No one bit of primary evidence. One solid piece.

Lets also see you get around the Nazareth didn't even exist in the 1rst century.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Brakeman

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2011, 07:16:44 AM »
Also missing about jesus is the obvious jewish Targum omissions. That the literally earth shaking events of jesus' life and death don't warrant a comment in the vast jewish writings of the time and region is purely asinine.

Much like Chiropractors, biblical scholars are deficiently hesitant to actually dismiss the source of their livelihood.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2011, 10:38:49 AM »
it does get annoying when jay does this nonsense, making claims and then ignoring requests for evidence to support them.  Same with TOT over in the thread about libertarianism, where good points were made against it and we got a promise of a considered response. 

yep, I know, everyone's free to post when and what they will on the forum.  I do feel it's quite disrespectful  and dishonest to engage in such pratices though. 
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Offline screwtape

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2011, 11:57:31 AM »
I am in no position to prove or disprove anything and do not wish to argue the "finer" points of what I am about to say. I just want to make a point that as far as "lack of evidence" for Jesus goes, there is more evidence of his existence than there is for my great great great grandmother. No one currently alive in my family can trace back that far. There is no record of her birth. There is no record of her death. There is no mention of her anywhere on the face of this planet.

I'm skeptical that there is no documentation.  But granting that it is so, it is not relevant.  You are here.  You exist.  Thus, you had a great, great, great grandmother.  You may have sketchy evidence as to who she was.  You not be sure about anything about her.  But it is a fact that you had one.  You are the evidence.


But as far as proof goes, there is still more evidence of his existence than my maternal lineage if you go back more than a couple hundred years.

I think you are confusing evidence and myths.  All we have are a pile of fantastical stories about a jesus character, both canon and heretical, that range wildly in his character and philosophy.  While it may be reasonable to speculate that jesus was a run of the mill, mortal human, an itenerant rabbi with a big mouth who pissed off a lot of people in power, those myths are not evidence of it.  That would be like saying Greek mythology is evidence of a strong Greek guy named Hercules.   

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Offline Truth OT

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2011, 12:16:18 PM »
it does get annoying when jay does this nonsense, making claims and then ignoring requests for evidence to support them.  Same with TOT over in the thread about libertarianism, where good points were made against it and we got a promise of a considered response

yep, I know, everyone's free to post when and what they will on the forum.  I do feel it's quite disrespectful  and dishonest to engage in such pratices though.

Don't start no $h!t today Ms. Lady, I'm feeling froggy!

Offline velkyn

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2011, 12:23:25 PM »
it does get annoying when jay does this nonsense, making claims and then ignoring requests for evidence to support them.  Same with TOT over in the thread about libertarianism, where good points were made against it and we got a promise of a considered response

yep, I know, everyone's free to post when and what they will on the forum.  I do feel it's quite disrespectful  and dishonest to engage in such pratices though.

Don't start no $h!t today Ms. Lady, I'm feeling froggy!

bring it on, sweetheart.   8)
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Offline GodisRealDuh

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2012, 03:50:29 AM »
Jesus was never "born again". He went up to Heaven and has yet to return in the clouds.  :)

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2012, 04:09:27 AM »
Clouds aren't a place that folks can hang out.  You knew that, right?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline jetson

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2012, 09:40:04 AM »
Jesus was never "born again". He went up to Heaven and has yet to return in the clouds.  :)

Welcome to the forum.  I'm guessing you think God is real?  Well, maybe you can finally clear this up for all of us, and show us God, that would be swell.  And you would get credit for single-handedly wiping out atheism!  Bonus!

Anyway, I hope you enjoy our little playground of skeptical thinkers and non-believers.  We're a feisty bunch, but as long as you're honest, we'll treat you well.

Oh, and by the way - GodisImaginaryDuh!

Offline Lorax

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Re: When Was Jesus Born Again?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2012, 06:59:43 AM »
So Quirinius wasn't really governor after all?