Author Topic: No One Is Born Gay!!!!  (Read 3077 times)

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Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #116 on: December 09, 2011, 02:53:15 PM »
I have only one question: Evidence?

What you're claiming is everything the homophobes claim, as well as your own twisted logic. Sexuality is not immutable, people are not born heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual/asexual, people can change by choice (and therefore choose to stay the way they are), et cetera. And, like the homophobes, you have provided no evidence.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #117 on: December 09, 2011, 02:58:39 PM »
I don't really want to propose different new labels, I am just saying that the overutilization of the current labels serves to muddy the waters and can often be meaningless and irrelevant.
oh you “really don’t want to”.  &)  And no one else finds the labels meaningless or irrelevant.  In fact, you seem to the only one bothered by people calling themselves what they want to and not what you want to call them. 

Quote
Good question. And honestly, I cannot answer it. This discussion got off into labels and the labelling aspect snowballed and became the entire focus to the point where I cannot remember where it is I initially planned on taking this thread.
mmmm-hmmmm.
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #118 on: December 09, 2011, 03:11:00 PM »
I have only one question: Evidence?

What you're claiming is everything the homophobes claim, as well as your own twisted logic. Sexuality is not immutable, people are not born heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual/asexual, people can change by choice (and therefore choose to stay the way they are), et cetera. And, like the homophobes, you have provided no evidence.

The best evidence is that many people have changed and have a different sexual orientation now than they once had. With this being the case, it is evident that sexuality is not immutable at least for some.

If I recall, "homophobes" claim that gays are bad people, shouldn't be able to marry, are rightfully discriminated against, and should be compelled to change their behavior in addition to making the assertation that people are not born heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual/asexual, people can change by choice.
I am by no means "claiming everything the homophobes claim" as you declared. I am simply saying that in reference to the idea that sexual orientation CAN be changed, the position homophobes have is in line with the evidence that can be observed.



Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #119 on: December 09, 2011, 03:15:21 PM »
The best evidence is that many people have changed and have a different sexual orientation now than they once had. With this being the case, it is evident that sexuality is not immutable at least for some.

And your evidence for this is? Where are these "many people"?

If I recall, "homophobes" claim that gays are bad people, shouldn't be able to marry, are rightfully discriminated against, and should be compelled to change their behavior in addition to making the assertation that people are not born heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual/asexual, people can change by choice.
I am by no means "claiming everything the homophobes claim" as you declared. I am simply saying that in reference to the idea that sexual orientation CAN be changed, the position homophobes have is in line with the evidence that can be observed.

My apologies. "Everything" was an exaggeration. However, you are claiming that one can choose to be A or B, which is the main "argument" homophobes make.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #120 on: December 09, 2011, 03:28:13 PM »
...The best evidence is that many people have changed and have a different sexual orientation now than they once had...

It is my opinion that sexuality, as so many human attributes, is not as simple as black and white, on and off, gay or straight. Or bi or asexual.

I believe its far more likely that its best described as a curve. A person anywhere in the middle could feel attracted to any sex. In other words, some level of bisexual. Perhaps they're mostly attracted to men, but an occasional woman floats their boat. Their apparent sexuality would then depend on whomever they happened to have met and fallen in love with. Some level of chance in that ... they see a woman they love first. Perhaps if they'd not gone to that dance they'd have fallen for a man instead. I wonder, if society weren't so hateful to those who are not strictly straight, if we'd see a lot more people with more flexibility in sexual orientation and expression.
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #121 on: December 09, 2011, 03:52:12 PM »
The Washington Blade
By JENNIFER VANASCO Feb. 11, 2005
http://pfox.org/I_choose_to_be_gay.html

Quote
For the majority of us, "lesbian" and "gay" are not biological identities. Biologically, most of us are bisexual. What they are is political identities that often (but not always) describe the relationships that we currently choose.


Traveler, your sentiments reflect similarly to the ones expressed by Jen Vanasco, a lesbian that wrote the Washington Blade. Maybe this is correct.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 03:55:26 PM by Truth OT »

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #122 on: December 09, 2011, 04:04:19 PM »
The Washington Blade
By JENNIFER VANASCO Feb. 11, 2005
http://pfox.org/I_choose_to_be_gay.html

Quote
For the majority of us, "lesbian" and "gay" are not biological identities. Biologically, most of us are bisexual. What they are is political identities that often (but not always) describe the relationships that we currently choose.


Traveler, your sentiments reflect similarly to the ones expressed by Jen Vanasco, a lesbian that wrote the Washington Blade. Maybe this is correct.

I don't know whether it's correct or not, but I can definitely see how an argument could be made for the viewpoint.  Look at ancient Athens during the time of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, for example.  And I think there was some cultural unusualness in Sparta of the time as well, although I'm not as familiar with that as I am with the Athens of the time.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #123 on: December 09, 2011, 04:08:46 PM »
The Washington Blade
By JENNIFER VANASCO Feb. 11, 2005
http://pfox.org/I_choose_to_be_gay.html

Quote
For the majority of us, "lesbian" and "gay" are not biological identities. Biologically, most of us are bisexual. What they are is political identities that often (but not always) describe the relationships that we currently choose.


Traveler, your sentiments reflect similarly to the ones expressed by Jen Vanasco, a lesbian that wrote the Washington Blade. Maybe this is correct.

Problem: That person's idea of sexuality seems to be the same as your own. Per the actual definition of it, sexuality cannot be changed, only repressed.
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Online Azdgari

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #124 on: December 09, 2011, 04:16:52 PM »
As bad as TOT's idea is, some people are attacking it from a really unreasonable angle.  He is suggesting a change in the accepted meanings of some words.  Here's how that's gone, in some lines of argument so far:

TOT:  "Sexual orientation" should refer to acts, not thoughts.  We should change its definition accordingly.[1]
Others:  You're wrong, that's not the actual definition of "sexual orientation"!
TOT:  Well, yeah, I know that's not the currently accepted definition.  Which is part of why I'm suggesting the change in the first place...
Others:  But your change is wrong, because that's not the actual definition...
<repeat>

Definitions are tools.  They're man-made.  There are not "actual" definitions, only accepted ones.  Acceptance can change.  Definitions can change.  Appealing to the fact that a term currently means X has no bearing on an argument that claims that it should instead mean Y.

Just my 2 cents here on that topic.
 1. This is a very rough, admittedly inaccurate paraphrase.  But it'll serve for the purpose of my point in this post.
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Offline Herenow

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #125 on: December 09, 2011, 04:18:31 PM »
Quote from: plethora on December 07, 2011, 12:06:53 PM
There are probably other sexual orientations to consider (i.e. pedophiles) but there's no need to list everything. Just sayin' there's more than 2.
Sexual orientation is gender specific. Either you are attracted to men, women, both or neither. Sexual preferences and deviations are an entirely different matter.

Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #126 on: December 09, 2011, 04:18:41 PM »
OK, let me try this another way:
Sexuality is about thinking that one or both genders (or none) are attractive. Id est: To like (or dislike) how one or both genders look like. Can you CHOOSE to like something? Obviously not.

Likewise, you cannot CHOOSE to be attracted to one gender or both (or none). Did you make a conscious choice to like the gender you like? If not, why do you keep saying that it's a choice?
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Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #127 on: December 09, 2011, 04:20:32 PM »
As bad as TOT's idea is, some people are attacking it from a really unreasonable angle.  He is suggesting a change in the accepted meanings of some words.

By that logic, we're all right, but it also means that we can never argue about anything. Ever. At least not without defining the words that we're using. Then the words that we used to define those words. Then the words we used to define the words we used to define the words. Then...

You see the problem here, right?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #128 on: December 09, 2011, 04:25:34 PM »
I see several problems here, luci, the main one of which is that - whoever's at fault -  you didn't understand the contents of my post.  Which is a problem for me, though, because I thought I'd made myself very explicit.

Do you believe that there are metaphysically external definitions of words, which humans learn without ever having coined themselves?
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Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #129 on: December 09, 2011, 04:29:32 PM »
I see several problems here, luci, the main one of which is that - whoever's at fault -  you didn't understand the contents of my post.  Which is a problem for me, though, because I thought I'd made myself very explicit.

I shall go back and read your post again.

Do you believe that there are metaphysically external definitions of words, which humans learn without ever having coined themselves?

Obviously not. Language is an invention of mankind, as you said.
However, TOT isn't trying to get people to change the definitions of certain terms, he's just using his own to "win" this argument without justifying why his definitions are better than the current (actual) definitions.
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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #130 on: December 09, 2011, 04:33:07 PM »
He may be doing that at times.  I don't know.  I do know that there have been other times where he has been quite clear about his desire to change the accepted definitions of words, and given his reasons for why.[1]  So I'm hesitant to accept that characterization.
 1. ...which were awful
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Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #131 on: December 09, 2011, 04:40:23 PM »
He may be doing that at times.  I don't know.  I do know that there have been other times where he has been quite clear about his desire to change the accepted definitions of words, and given his reasons for why.[1]  So I'm hesitant to accept that characterization.
 1. ...which were awful

From what I could tell in this thread, here's what TOT is doing:

TOT: My definition of X is better.
Me: Why?
TOT: Because this is what X means.

So... yeah, basically what you said, only in reverse.
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #132 on: December 09, 2011, 05:03:08 PM »
Quote
Mrs. Smith is a widow that was married for 28 years to the same man. For her entire life she only had eyes for her husband and had never experienced much in the line of sexual attraction to any man aside from than him and was never aroused in any way by a woman. A couple years after Mr. Smith's passing, Mrs. Smith finds herself in a setting where she is alone with another widow about her age that she has come to view as a close friend. One thing leads to another and before she knows it the two find themselves not only sharing an embrace, but also a very passionate kiss which Mrs. Smith finds to be both arousing and stimulating. After initially ignoring those new and scary feelings, Mrs. Smith confronts her girlfriend about what happenned expressing both her fears as well as the pleasure she felt from the encounter. The friend puts her at ease to the point that Mrs. Smith because comfortable enough with her feelings to act upon them. The two ladies start a bisexual relationship and Mrs. Smith lives out her days with her lesbian partner in much the same way that she had with her husband in that she only had eyes for him.

Is Mrs. Smith gay, asexual, straight, or bisexual?

Was she ever really straight?

When did she become a lesbian?

Did her sexual orientation ever change?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 05:13:15 PM by Truth OT »

Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #133 on: December 09, 2011, 05:04:35 PM »
Is Mrs. Smith gay, asexual, straight, or bisexual?

Bisexual.

Was she ever really straight?

Obviously not.

When did she become a lesbian?

She never was one.

Did her sexual orientation ever change?

Nope. Just her perception of it.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #134 on: December 09, 2011, 05:05:52 PM »
Quote
It is still unclear to me what problem you have with a gay man marrying a woman and having sex with her. Since he is having sex with her, doesn't that make him straight according to your definition? So what if he has to think about Brad Pitt to do it with her-- what he thinks is not important. He is doing the deed hetero-style, which makes him a straight married man. Isn't that what you are saying? So what is the problem?


NG, you can't be serious with this can you? How would you feel if your significant other was fanticizing about or preferred being with any other person aside from yourself? Such a person would not be worthy of being the recipient of my loving touch.

TOT, you missed my point. I think we can agree that a gay man who marries a woman he is not attracted to for social reasons (money, safety, family) is maybe sort of a jerk and a coward and a liar, certainly undeserving of the devotion the wife has for him. But my question for you is this: is he a gay or straight jerk, coward and liar?

Suppose he uses the money he gets from his wife to take care of his male lover, who he only gets to see once a month. He really loves the guy, has amazing sex with him and would do anything for him. Even sacrifice his body to a woman he does not find attractive. When he has sex with his wife he only thinks of his boyfriend. In what reality is this guy anything but gay?

Calling him bisexual is saying that his phony relationship with his wife is equivalent to his real relationship with his boyfriend. He is only pretending when he is with the wife. He is playing the role of a straight guy, like one of those actors who plays a doctor on tv. He spends most of his time pretending to do surgery, but he still ain't a doctor!

(Aren't there a lot of historical romances like this with servant or slave women playing the "he has my body but not my soul" part?)

If you pretend to be straight, does that make you straight? That would be interesting news to all the gay people who have vainly tried to stop being gay by dating the opposite sex. "You are gay because you just haven't met the right woman/man yet. You haven't had sex the way I cook it!" Ignorant men have tried this line on lesbians for about forever.[1] Does a straight porn actor who does mainly gay porn "turn gay" after a certain number of films, even if his romantic relationships off the set are with women?  :?
 1. That seems to be a major part of "reparative therapy" -- just pretend you are straight and it will catch on.... eventually. Only the vast majority of time, it only makes everyone involved more miserable.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

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Offline Truth OT

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #135 on: December 09, 2011, 05:11:39 PM »

Calling him bisexual is saying that his phony relationship with his wife is equivalent to his real relationship with his boyfriend. He is only pretending when he is with the wife. He is playing the role of a straight guy, like one of those actors who plays a doctor on tv. He spends most of his time pretending to do surgery, but he still ain't a doctor!


I do not equate the relationships in terms of how he feels about them, but what I do equate is the REALITY they both are a part of. In reality, regardless of what he feels or how he defines himself, his actions bear out that he is in fact a willing bisexual man.

Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #136 on: December 09, 2011, 05:15:42 PM »
I do not equate the relationships in terms of how he feels about them, but what I do equate is the REALITY they both are a part of. In reality, regardless of what he feels or how he defines himself, his actions bear out that he is in fact a willing bisexual man.

You do realize that, by your twisted logic, feelings aren't real and that prisoners who are executed do so willingly, right? After all, they didn't have to walk to the electric chair/lethal injection thingy. They could've resisted. But they walked, willingly. Who cares if they didn't want to die?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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We choose our own gods.

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #137 on: December 09, 2011, 05:36:40 PM »
Quote
Mrs. Smith is a widow that was married for 28 years to the same man. For her entire life she only had eyes for her husband and had never experienced much in the line of sexual attraction to any man other than him. A couple years after Mr. Smith's passing, Mrs. Smith finds herself in a setting where she is alone with another widow about her age that she has come to view as a close friend. One thing leads to another and before she knows it the two find themselves not only sharing an embrace, but also a very passionate kiss which Mrs. Smith finds to be both arousing and stimulating. After initially ignoring those new and scary feelings, Mrs. Smith confronts her girlfriend about what happenned expressing both her fears as well as the pleasure she felt from the encounter. The friend puts her at ease to the point that Mrs. Smith because comfortable enough with her feelings to act upon them. The two ladies start a bisexual relationship and Mrs. Smith lives out her days with her lesbian partner in much the same way that she had with her husband in that she only had eyes for him.

Is Mrs. Smith gay, asexual, straight, or bisexual?

Was she ever really straight?

When did she become a lesbian?

Did her sexual orientation ever change?

Given the opportunity, a lot of people would probably be bisexual-- voluntarily able to physically and emotionally connect with someone of either sex at various times in their lives. This is different from the men who have sex with other men, but only in prison, or the lesbian who has sex with men, but only for money.

Yeah, I suppose you could argue that these women are "willing" to have sex with men and therefore are not really lesbians. But I think the confusion is that prostitution is not really about sexual attraction for the prostitute, male or female. Women don't become prostitutes or strippers because they just love men so much and would like to make some money. It's a bit more complicated than that. (The men in prison scenario is complicated, too. It is more about power--who is the "top" and gets favors versus who is the "bottom" and has to give favors-- than about sexual attraction per se.)

Many women in sex trade hate men and have past histories of serious abuse. In my social work I met a lot of women who had done sex work, and not one had anything nice to say about men. I met two who were avowed hard-core self-described "bull-dyke" lesbians who knew how to "fake the femme" enough to fool men. They got off on taking money from men to give to their girlfriends and kids. One said gleefully of male clients, "They never knew we was gay!"

The one exotic dancer I counseled and got to know pretty well was so turned off by what she did that she had become basically asexual, even though from the way she dressed (eg skintight white catsuit and heels for normal daywear) and acted, any man would think she could never get enough. She had learned how to turn on the fake sexual energy when needed. I knew she had quit the trade before she even told me when I saw how differently she was dressed and how she moved with relaxed ease and comfort instead of oozing "look at me!" 
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #138 on: December 09, 2011, 05:37:19 PM »
I do not equate the relationships in terms of how he feels about them, but what I do equate is the REALITY they both are a part of. In reality, regardless of what he feels or how he defines himself, his actions bear out that he is in fact a willing bisexual man.

You do realize that, by your twisted logic, feelings aren't real and that prisoners who are executed do so willingly, right? After all, they didn't have to walk to the electric chair/lethal injection thingy. They could've resisted. But they walked, willingly. Who cares if they didn't want to die?

Your insistance that my logic in the situation described above is twisted seems illogical. What's twisted about calling a spade a spade? And furthermore, how is a person being forced into execution in any way comparable with the man that chooses to marry a woman and engage in sex with both his wife and his lover comparable?
Again, I never said that feelings are not real, (your making the false accusation when you claim that I have said as much makes me wonder if you are looking at things from an emotional perspective causing you to see things that aren't there as opposed to a logical one), I am though refusing to accept that it is feelings that are the be all and end all determining factors.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 05:40:10 PM by Truth OT »

Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #139 on: December 09, 2011, 05:42:12 PM »
Your insistance that my logic in the situation described above is twisted seems illogical. What's twisted about calling a spade a spade?

You're not calling a spade a spade. You're saying that a diamond is a spade, providing poor arguments to support it and then saying that the rest of your argument is correct because a diamond is a spade.

And furthermore, how is a person being forced into execution in any way comparable with the man that chooses to marry a woman and engage in sex with both his wife and his lover comparable?

It's not, which is why, in my example, they weren't forced. They walked to the place of their execution willingly.

Again, I never said that feelings are not real, I am though refusing to accept that it is feelings that are the be all and end all determining factors.

Actually, you did. Again. In fact, you keep contradicting yourself. Here:

I do not equate the relationships in terms of how he feels about them, but what I do equate is the REALITY they both are a part of. In reality, regardless of what he feels or how he defines himself, his actions bear out that he is in fact a willing bisexual man.

Bold mine.
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Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Truth OT

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #140 on: December 09, 2011, 05:56:30 PM »

Given the opportunity, a lot of people would probably be bisexual-- voluntarily able to physically and emotionally connect with someone of either sex at various times in their lives. This is different from the men who have sex with other men, but only in prison, or the lesbian who has sex with men, but only for money.

There may be something to this idea. Societal pressures and other factors tend to influence folks to go down a particular path. If I had to bet on it, I'd say that in a world where no one cared about sexual orientation and society didn't expect folks to choose that bisexuality would be a lot more prevailent and out in the open.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #141 on: December 09, 2011, 06:11:15 PM »

You're not calling a spade a spade. You're saying that a diamond is a spade, providing poor arguments to support it and then saying that the rest of your argument is correct because a diamond is a spade.


It's not, which is why, in my example, they weren't forced. They walked to the place of their execution willingly.


Actually, you did. Again. In fact, you keep contradicting yourself. Here:

I do not equate the relationships in terms of how he feels about them, but what I do equate is the REALITY they both are a part of. In reality, regardless of what he feels or how he defines himself, his actions bear out that he is in fact a willing bisexual man.

Bold mine.

So would you have been happier if I had said that their feelings were not based on reality? It's it a delusional mind that places how one feels above what can be observed, tested, and what actually occurs?
Notice again what I said. I said that the relationships were not equal as it pertained to how he felt about them. Obviously the same-sex relationship was more meaningful to him. I then went on to say that despite this, the reality that he willingly engaged in both relationships illustrates that he was a practicing bisexual man. 
How can that even be argued without using fallacies?

You say I call a diamond a spade by when I say that a person that engages in bisexual conduct is in fact bisexual despite them feeling like they are not, right? Tell me, how would a reasonable person that is unbiased come to the conclusion that you have that I can calling a spade a diamond?

So the person wasn't actually about to be executed, as you describe it they are marching towards their own euthanasia moment.

Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #142 on: December 09, 2011, 06:19:47 PM »
So would you have been happier if I had said that their feelings were not based on reality? It's it a delusional mind that places how one feels above what can be observed, tested, and what actually occurs?

Actually, it's a delusional mind that says that one cannot observe and test feelings, and that feelings don't actually occur.

Notice again what I said. I said that the relationships were not equal as it pertained to how he felt about them. Obviously the same-sex relationship was more meaningful to him. I then went on to say that despite this, the reality that he willingly engaged in both relationships illustrates that he was a practicing bisexual man. 
How can that even be argued without using fallacies?

To have a specific sexuality, one must take pleasure in his/her actions. This is what you don't seem to understand. The homosexual man only enjoyed his affair, whereas his relationship with his wife was not enjoyable.

You say I call a diamond a spade by when I say that a person that engages in bisexual conduct is in fact bisexual despite them feeling like they are not, right? Tell me, how would a reasonable person that is unbiased come to the conclusion that you have that I can calling a spade a diamond?

See above.

So the person wasn't actually about to be executed, as you describe it they are marching towards their own euthanasia moment.

No. The person had been condemned to death (for the sake of argument, let's say it was by electric chair), but they did not have to cooperate. They could have tried to run away and resisted until they were dragged against their will to the chair. They chose to walk of their own free will towards the chair, knowing full well what the consequences would be.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #143 on: December 09, 2011, 06:41:34 PM »

Actually, it's a delusional mind that says that one cannot observe and test feelings, and that feelings don't actually occur.


To have a specific sexuality, one must take pleasure in his/her actions. This is what you don't seem to understand. The homosexual man only enjoyed his affair, whereas his relationship with his wife was not enjoyable.


No. The person had been condemned to death (for the sake of argument, let's say it was by electric chair), but they did not have to cooperate. They could have tried to run away and resisted until they were dragged against their will to the chair. They chose to walk of their own free will towards the chair, knowing full well what the consequences would be.

Again, I never said that feelings did not occur or weren't real. I do assert, however, that the man in question that feels he's strictly a homosexual despite consistanly and willingly engaging in a bisexual lifesyle is deluded and lying to himself about who he actually is.
I would go further to say that his feeling that he is strictly homosexual is being tested and he fails by virtue of his chosen actions in proving that his feeling is accurate.

You are 100% right. I do not understand why that is the case. It makes more sense to believe that taking pleasure in as well as what one engages in are both factors as it pertains to one's specific sexuality than to say that taking pleasure in the sex act is strictly the determining factor.

Oh come on how Luc. The convicted person had no choice in the matter then. HE was gonna be executed whether he resisted or not. Horrid and silly comparison especially coming from a person like you that typically exhibits higher levels of critical thinking and analysis.

Offline One Above All

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Re: No One Is Born Gay!!!!
« Reply #144 on: December 09, 2011, 06:52:27 PM »
Again, I never said that feelings did not occur or weren't real. I do assert, however, that the man in question that feels he's strictly a homosexual despite consistanly and willingly engaging in a bisexual lifesyle is deluded and lying to himself about who he actually is.

I would go further to say that his feeling that he is strictly homosexual is being tested and he fails by virtue of his chosen actions in proving that his feeling is accurate.

You are 100% right. I do not understand why that is the case. It makes more sense to believe that taking pleasure in as well as what one engages in are both factors as it pertains to one's specific sexuality than to say that taking pleasure in the sex act is strictly the determining factor.

The sexual act was... limited.
The basis for sexuality is feeling aroused when looking at individuals of the same/opposite/both gender(s). Obviously not every individual will create arousal; the individual needs to be sexually attractive.

Oh come on how Luc. The convicted person had no choice in the matter then. HE was gonna be executed whether he resisted or not.

But he could have resisted. Likewise, the female homosexual prostitute could say "no" to her male clients.

Horrid and silly comparison especially coming from a person like you that typically exhibits higher levels of critical thinking and analysis.

Thanks for the compliment, but I think that if you read the above, you'll see why the analogy was valid.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.