Author Topic: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]  (Read 1113 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« on: December 04, 2011, 03:58:48 PM »
Hello

Your web page http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

So you have taken 1 case that was known around the world, and have no explanation for it. The thousands upon thousands of other cases for which they were not documented yet are inexplicable do you have anything on those things ?

There also are many non-healing related cases of events or actions that you have never heard of. Then Jesus himself walking the face of the Earth and performing all of the miracles he performed and the fact that others have seen God move through the power and name of Jesus.

Now lets go on to your problem - after you have checked to see of all 8 billion people in the world and looked down through all history at all amputees you can say with 100% certainty that God does not heal amputees ..  From a scientific point of view you haven't got a leg to stand on. Where is your data ?

From a spiritual view point - a person is saved by faith..

Trying to prove Gods existence by praying for an amputee to receive their legs , or praying for another to receive a healing or anything else for that matter , there is a scripture for that - It is written thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. God does not need to prove he is, he already knows he is. He has nothing to prove to anyone.

As for your prayer chain to prove the existence of God - it fails the test of believe as well - you see you don't believe or you would not be trying to get him to prove that he is God and is there through your prayer chain.

I wonder if you will post these this on your page ?
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2011, 04:11:45 PM »
I'm in a good mood right now (writer's high), so I'll take this one. ;D

Hello

'Sup?

Your web page http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

Not mine, but I see your point.

So you have taken 1 case that was known around the world, and have no explanation for it.

Evidence?
Assuming you can actually provide it[1]:
You should read up on what an argument from silence is. Here's the short version:
Basically, because medicine does not have an answer, you assume that yours is correct. By that logic, I could say that I created your god, since you don't know what did.

The thousands upon thousands of other cases for which they were not documented yet are inexplicable do you have anything on those things ?

There's a slight problem with your argument... No documentation=Does not exist, as far as I am concerned. Stories that were first told by a friend of a friend of a friend (...) of a friend who was an eyewitness are not reliable.
Also, to quote House:
"Just because it's inexplicted doesn't mean it's inexplicable."
You are quite arrogant, assuming that it is without explanation, yet that you alone have an explanation for it.

There also are many non-healing related cases of events or actions that you have never heard of.

Such as? Can you provide evidence for them?

Then Jesus himself walking the face of the Earth and performing all of the miracles he performed and the fact that others have seen God move through the power and name of Jesus.

Circular logic. The Bible is true because it says that it's true and because everything in it is true. Makes perfect sense.

Now lets go on to your problem - after you have checked to see of all 8 billion people in the world and looked down through all history at all amputees you can say with 100% certainty that God does not heal amputees ..  From a scientific point of view you haven't got a leg to stand on. Where is your data ?

Lack of documented amputees being healed is the evidence.
FYI: There are seven billion humans on this planet.

From a spiritual view point - a person is saved by faith..

Nonsensical sentence.

Trying to prove Gods existence by praying for an amputee to receive their legs , or praying for another to receive a healing or anything else for that matter , there is a scripture for that - It is written thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. God does not need to prove he is, he already knows he is. He has nothing to prove to anyone.

Tempt? We're just holding him to his word... Or was it metaphorical, when he said that anything we asked for would be granted to us?

As for your prayer chain to prove the existence of God - it fails the test of believe as well - you see you don't believe or you would not be trying to get him to prove that he is God and is there through your prayer chain.

Once again, your arrogance is showing. If I see something that goes against something that I now know to be true, I will start questioning those assumptions. To do anything else would be intellectually dishonest, and akin to what you're doing now.

I wonder if you will post these this on your page ?

Oh yes. Someone always does.
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Offline Irish

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2011, 05:18:26 PM »
The thousands upon thousands of other cases for which they were not documented

Precisely.  You seem to suggest miracles occur by the thousands and yet explicitly state there is no evidence for them.  How, then, am I, or anyone, suppose to believe you?

Quote
the fact that others have seen God move through the power and name of Jesus.

I don't know what this means.  I have noticed many things about the religious - one being that when they proselytize or preach they use very ambiguous and vague language.  What exactly do you mean by the above quoted statement?

Quote
...of all 8 billion people in the world

7 billion.  You're about a billion off.

Quote
...you can say with 100% certainty that God does not heal amputees

There is no god to heal the amputees - so yes, god does not heal amputees.  Practically speaking, it's the same thing.

Quote
Where is your data ?

I'm not the one claiming that a god exists and that this god heals amputees.  That onus is upon your shoulders - the one making the claim.  Not the one simply not believing the claim.  It would be similar to me asking you to prove there is NOT a miniature blue elephant on my shoulder.  Or more practically speaking, proving that the defendant in a law case is innocent rather than guilty.  Seen in this way, your question is ludicrous.

Russell's teapotWiki

Quote
From a spiritual view point - a person is saved by faith.

I don't believe you and you and I have opposing viewpoints on the idea of faith.  I find it to be a weakness and crock.

Quote
God does not need to prove he is, he already knows he is. He has nothing to prove to anyone.

As I said earlier - ambiguity is rampant with the religious.  What does this statement explicitly mean?  Secondly, the entire statement presupposes that God exists.  You have yet to show this so your entire statement is moot.

Quote
I wonder if you will post these this on your page ?

It is.  I wonder if you will respond.

EDIT: Grammatical stuff.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 05:25:25 PM by Irish »
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2011, 06:26:15 PM »
Quote from: visitor
So you have taken 1 case that was known around the world, and have no explanation for it. The thousands upon thousands of other cases for which they were not documented yet are inexplicable do you have anything on those things ?

Do I hear the incredulous disdain of a believer?


Quote from: visitor
There also are many non-healing related cases of events or actions that you have never heard of. Then Jesus himself walking the face of the Earth and performing all of the miracles he performed and the fact that others have seen God move through the power and name of Jesus.

Yes, yes I do hear.


Quote from: visitor
Now lets go on to your problem - after you have checked to see of all 8 billion people in the world and looked down through all history at all amputees you can say with 100% certainty that God does not heal amputees ..  From a scientific point of view you haven't got a leg to stand on. Where is your data ?

Oh, aren't you the clever one trying to be punny ...


Quote from: visitor
From a spiritual view point - a person is saved by faith..

Trying to prove Gods existence by praying for an amputee to receive their legs , or praying for another to receive a healing or anything else for that matter , there is a scripture for that - It is written thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. God does not need to prove he is, he already knows he is. He has nothing to prove to anyone.

The bible specifically says to pray to god for what you want or need and it shall be given to you. But, really, don't worry yourself with that. There is nothing better that a Christian can do but to cherry-pick bible verses that fit whatever point a Christian is trying to make, ignoring everything else.


Quote from: visitor
As for your prayer chain to prove the existence of God - it fails the test of believe as well - you see you don't believe or you would not be trying to get him to prove that he is God and is there through your prayer chain.

I wonder if you will post these this on your page ?

You betcha!  Take a gander at the quality of the other letters-to-the-editor and you can see that we post just about any email.


I have never been more freer nor happier since relieving myself of the bonds of Christianity.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2011, 07:11:13 PM »
From a scientific point of view you haven't got a leg to stand on.
Will the American Association for the Advancement of Science or the British Royal Academy or any other nation's academy of science (all the First World countries have one) agree with your definition of "science"?

Quote
Where is your data ?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  I don't think I distorting any meanings here if I observe that ordinarily amputated limbs don't regrow on mammals.  It doesn't seem to ever happen. At this point the burden of proof is on you?  So where is your data?

Quote
From a spiritual view point - a person is saved by faith..

Or by blood sacrifices.
Or by flower, bread, milk and grain sacrifices.
Or by killing some person whom religious authorities have declared bad.
Or by oiling and cleaning statues.
Or by abnegation of desire.
Or by abnegation of desire until death by starvation.
Or by the contemplation of the perfection of mathematics.
Or by heroic deeds.
Or by good works.
Or by good works for many reincarnations.
Or by service to the church for many reincarnations.
Or by death on the battlefield.
Or by being in the bloodline of the Prophet.
Or by being chosen at random to be one of the Elect.
(I better stop now.  The list keeps getting longer each time I reflect for a minute.)

None of those are from science fiction, BTW.  I could identify them all.

Your spiritual point of view is not the only spiritual point of view.  You think your view is because you have had that drummed into you by cultural and parental conditioning.


Offline Aaron123

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2011, 08:45:57 PM »
Hello

Your web page http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

So you have taken 1 case that was known around the world, and have no explanation for it. The thousands upon thousands of other cases for which they were not documented yet are inexplicable do you have anything on those things ?

There also are many non-healing related cases of events or actions that you have never heard of. Then Jesus himself walking the face of the Earth and performing all of the miracles he performed and the fact that others have seen God move through the power and name of Jesus.

Now lets go on to your problem - after you have checked to see of all 8 billion people in the world and looked down through all history at all amputees you can say with 100% certainty that God does not heal amputees ..  From a scientific point of view you haven't got a leg to stand on. Where is your data ?

Ah, the "leave no rock unturned" BS.  Is there a proper name for this logic fallacy?



Quote
From a spiritual view point - a person is saved by faith..

Trying to prove Gods existence by praying for an amputee to receive their legs , or praying for another to receive a healing or anything else for that matter , there is a scripture for that - It is written thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. God does not need to prove he is, he already knows he is. He has nothing to prove to anyone.

As for your prayer chain to prove the existence of God - it fails the test of believe as well - you see you don't believe or you would not be trying to get him to prove that he is God and is there through your prayer chain.

I wonder if you will post these this on your page ?

This all boils down to "accounting for why god does nothing at all".  Remind me; what's the difference between this and a god that doesn't exist?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline stixoffire

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 05:51:31 AM »
Quote from: pianodwarf on Yesterday at 03:58:48 PM
So you have taken 1 case that was known around the world, and have no explanation for it.

Evidence?
Assuming you can actually provide it[1]:
You should read up on what an argument from silence is. Here's the short version:
Basically, because medicine does not have an answer, you assume that yours is correct. By that logic, I could say that I created your god, since you don't know what did. You could say that but you would be wrong. He always was.
>>No I do not assume since medicine does not have an answer for it that mine is correct , I know I am correct by the grace of God .
>> God heals people of things that medicine is used for - with out the medicine and he heals people where there is no cure as well  - so you need to find a different argument.
Quote from: pianodwarf on Yesterday at 03:58:48 PM
The thousands upon thousands of other cases for which they were not documented yet are inexplicable do you have anything on those things ?
There's a slight problem with your argument>>. No documentation=Does not exist, as far as I am concerned.
>>Small problem with yours : you do not have any data signifying who did get healed and who did not get healed DO YOU ?
>>No documentation on your part - I want to see it for all 7 or 8 billion on the planet currently and the 8 billion plus that have lived on the planet previously :
>>Where is your documentation that NOT one person was healed. Come up with a better argument. You are required to have evidence -since you cite that scientific process and want mine. Wh e r e  IS IT ?

 Stories that were first told by a friend of a friend of a friend (>>.) of a friend who was an eyewitness are not reliable.
>>You have no evidence to pass down through the ages about all people never being healed DO YOU ? 
>>You know someone does not need to proclaim it in the paper or to the whole world for it to have occurred ?
>>They do not need to record it for you. Even if they did you surely will come up with another argument - surely you would and you know it.
>>Your argument lacks the same TEST you put my faith to. Only you say you are scientific - yours Fails your own TEST. You have no evidence that nobody was ever healed Do you >> where is it recorded ?
>>Where is your proof come on there were at least (I think) 12 billion people that walked the face of the earth -  could they all write - could most of them or some of them or few of them or any of them and then could those writings survive the ages - we can't even keep something for 50 years >>.  YOU  keep asking for my proof >> Wh e r e is yours oh Scientific ones ?
Also, to quote House: Yes Lets Qutoe him and reply there too.
"Just because it's inexplicted doesn't mean it's inexplicable."
>>No but it does not mean it is not inexplicable either but then again - I never said they were inexplicable to me - or a believer - perhaps only to you - they are - God answered someones prayer .
>>You believe in science and the Big Bang Theorey ?
>>Think that one through - out of nothing and complete void and the absence of any existence something happened between something that did not exist and caused a great big bang >> Yeah - Blonde Logic ?? Oh you might want to say something was there - well where did that come from ? Who created it , how did that get there ?  Blonde Logic ?? Scientist: could they be Blondes ??

Quote from: pianodwarf on Yesterday at 03:58:48 PM
There also are many non-healing related cases of events or actions that you have never heard of.

Such as? Can you provide evidence for them?
>> I am writing you - I am the evidence!

Quote from: pianodwarf on Yesterday at 03:58:48 PM
Then Jesus himself walking the face of the Earth and performing all of the miracles he performed and the fact that others have seen God move through the power and name of Jesus.

Circular logic. The Bible is true because it says that it's true and because everything in it is true. Makes perfect sense.
>>No what you said does not even relate to what I said >> Where did I quote the Bible in my statement and use that wording in my statement ? Although the Bible is True - unless you have one of those funny versions where people decided they did not like the way it was written before - as it required something of them>>

Quote from: pianodwarf on Yesterday at 03:58:48 PM
Now lets go on to your problem - after you have checked to see of all 8 billion people in the world and looked down through all history at all amputees you can say with 100% certainty that God does not heal amputees >> From a scientific point of view you haven't got a leg to stand on. Where is your data ?

Lack of documented amputees being healed is the evidence.
>>That is not evidence. If  some one stole $500 from the man down the street and he never reported it - I guess it was never stolen for lack of evdence. That Bicycle of yours when you were a kid that stolen - you never reported it to the police - guess it never was stolen was it - Lack of Eveidence.

FYI: There are seven billion humans on this planet. 
>>Have you counted them ? Where is your evidence for that claim, or are you taking it on FAITH ?

Quote from: pianodwarf on Yesterday at 03:58:48 PM
From a spiritual view point - a person is saved by faith>>

Nonsensical sentence.
>>That is just the way it is - if you don't like the rules that is your problem.

Quote from: pianodwarf on Yesterday at 03:58:48 PM
Trying to prove Gods existence by praying for an amputee to receive their legs , or praying for another to receive a healing or anything else for that matter , there is a scripture for that - It is written thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. God does not need to prove he is, he already knows he is. He has nothing to prove to anyone.

Tempt? We're just holding him to his word>>. Or was it metaphorical, when he said that anything we asked for would be granted to us?
>>I think you need to read it better than that - not only because in other parts you say you don't believe and don't take him at hios word and here you want to cherry pick ? Maybe you might want to re-read >>what you are cherry picking, maybe you will get the correct answer or not.

Quote from: pianodwarf on Yesterday at 03:58:48 PM
As for your prayer chain to prove the existence of God - it fails the test of believe as well - you see you don't believe or you would not be trying to get him to prove that he is God and is there through your prayer chain.

Once again, your arrogance is showing. If I see something that goes against something that I now know to be true, I will start questioning those assumptions. To do anything else would be intellectually dishonest, and akin to what you're doing now.
>>My arrogance - what is it that you know to be true ? You can't answer this: Because you ask for proof of Gods existence through the very act of creating your prayer chain to prove his existence. That is a clear sign that you do not believe, You fail the believe part of the prayer .
>>Can you say you have asked in fatih believing?  - after all you are asking of what you say does not exist and asking what you say does nto exist to reveal himself - in your mind believing he does not exist.
>>That is like trying to run an electric car on electricity without electricty - even though we know the car exists, and the electricty exists and that it will run if it had the electricity - you still need the electricity to make it work - Faith.
>>So why would you pour gasoline all over it and expect it to run ?




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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 05:58:44 AM »
Please read the quoting FAQ. I cannot understand you.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline Alzael

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 07:40:07 AM »
No I do not assume since medicine does not have an answer for it that mine is correct , I know I am correct by the grace of God .

Then you don't actually "know" that you're correct. If you "knew" you would have evidence for how you knew. If it is only by the grace of god then you are just assuming that you are correct.

God heals people of things that medicine is used for - with out the medicine and he heals people where there is no cure as well  - so you need to find a different argument.

Then by your own admission, god doing something to heal people is indistinguishable from god doing nothing to heal people. So your entire claim is essentially an unproveable falsehood. If god heals people where there is no cure as well, then you need to provide evidence of that, not an assertion. So no, you need to find a different argument. Yours is false and irrational with no support.

Small problem with yours : you do not have any data signifying who did get healed and who did not get healed DO YOU ?

Actually we do. The data we have says that nobody gets healed. It says that because there is no existing data of such a healing ever happening. You see how easy it is to make a rational argument?

No documentation on your part - I want to see it for all 7 or 8 billion on the planet currently and the 8 billion plus that have lived on the planet previously :

Unecessary and illogical. You're asking him to provide information that cannot possibly exist. If no one was healed there is nothing to document because it would be no different than any other illness or disease. As the one making the positive claim, that people have been healed, it is up to you to provide the evidence that this is occurring. Which should be easy if it actually had happened. So why don't you provide it? You could shut him up immediately, if you did. Instead you provide a fallacious assertion that has nothing to support it, and instead demand that other people provide support for their arguments while not doing so yourself. So we can add obvious hypocrite to your resume as well.

Where is your documentation that NOT one person was healed. Come up with a better argument. You are required to have evidence -since you cite that scientific process and want mine. Wh e r e  IS IT ?

Where is yours? Again, you are the one making the positive claim. The burden of proof is on you. If you c an't provide evidence to support what you say then logic dictates that your claims must be rejected.

Again, all you have to do is provide a little legitimate evidence of a claim that you say happens all the time. Why haven't you?

You know someone does not need to proclaim it in the paper or to the whole world for it to have occurred ?

True, but if you can't produce evidence for it, then you can't honestly say that it has occurred. Because you don't know.

They do not need to record it for you. Even if they did you surely will come up with another argument - surely you would and you know it.

So you're admitting that your claim is a lie then? If they don't need to record it, then you can't prove it. Which means that your claim that it happens is a lie, as you've just admitted that you can't possibly know that it has. The rest is just a dismissive fallacy, you don't know what he would do with any evidence presented. Because you haven't presented any evidence yet. You're simply displaying your own arrogance here in assuming that you know his mind.

Your argument lacks the same TEST you put my faith to. Only you say you are scientific - yours Fails your own TEST. You have no evidence that nobody was ever healed Do you >> where is it recorded ?

So again, you're clearly admitting that your claims fail. Unfortunately for you, it means that his claims prevail, as he is right. You can't support what you say, so your arguments must be discarded. That is scientific. As I explained before, the onus is on you to prove your case as you're making the positive claim. If you can't then your claim can only logically be rejected.

Not that you're even trying to use logic, of course.

No but it does not mean it is not inexplicable either but then again - I never said they were inexplicable to me - or a believer - perhaps only to you - they are - God answered someones prayer .

Don't assert it. Prove it. If you can't then you're just lying for your faith.

Think that one through - out of nothing and complete void and the absence of any existence something happened between something that did not exist and caused a great big bang

Good thing nothing about that even comes close to describing the Big Bang Theory. If you're going to criticize something you should at least know what it is.

Besides, this is exactly what you yourself believe isn't it? There was nothing, then god came along (somehow poofing into existence) and made it into something.

Blonde Logic ?? Oh you might want to say something was there - well where did that come from ? Who created it , how did that get there ?  Blonde Logic ?? Scientist: could they be Blondes ??

Actually good logic. Even if it weren't good logic, at least it's some logic. Which cannot be said of you.

I am writing you - I am the evidence!

No. This is evidence of nothing. Not only that but the statement makes no actual sense in regards to the comment made by PianoDwarf. What are you evidence of and how do you prove anything?

For that matter, do you actually know what evidence means?

That is not evidence. If  some one stole $500 from the man down the street and he never reported it - I guess it was never stolen for lack of evdence. That Bicycle of yours when you were a kid that stolen - you never reported it to the police - guess it never was stolen was it - Lack of Eveidence.

No, it might have been stolen, however you can't claim it was. If he never reported it and can't provid evidence that it was stolen, then his claim of it being stolen is to be rejected because it lacks evidence. It may have still happened, but without evidence to show that it did, the only logical course of action is to reject it.

Have you counted them ? Where is your evidence for that claim, or are you taking it on FAITH ?

This is just an example of stupidity.

That is just the way it is - if you don't like the rules that is your problem.

Nonsensical response. Also merely an assertion. You're making the claim, prove that these rules exist. Otherwise you're simply lying when you say this.

I think you need to read it better than that - not only because in other parts you say you don't believe and don't take him at hios word and here you want to cherry pick ? Maybe you might want to re-read >>what you are cherry picking, maybe you will get the correct answer or not.

Didn't answer his question.

My arrogance - what is it that you know to be true ? You can't answer this: Because you ask for proof of Gods existence through the very act of creating your prayer chain to prove his existence. That is a clear sign that you do not believe, You fail the believe part of the prayer .

Again, does not respond to what he said, and amounts to meaningless blather.

On the whole, uninteresting, unintelligent, and completely uncreative. Not only painfully dull, but painfully dull and horrendously ill-informed about how science and even basic logic functions.

Please read the quoting FAQ. I cannot understand you.

Don't worry, you didn't miss anything important.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 07:53:38 AM »
Wow.  What a remarkable failure of an argument.  God MUST heal amputees, because the mean old atheists have no evidence that all of the claimed miracles DIDN'T happen?  Usually it's just the tired old, you can't prove God does not exist, but now it's "you can't prove that each claimed miracle didn't happen".

Oh my, what are we gonna do now?  Seems hopeless to think that we had this all wrapped up, but now this letter comes along and tears it all down. 

I think, and I'm sure I'm not alone, that I will just consider the OP to be a fairly ignorant person who lacks a good understanding of the fallacies associated with his position, and let him/her blather on about it.  Geez...I've seen some whoppers before, but this takes the cake.

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 09:36:25 AM »
Hello

Your web page http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

So you have taken 1 case that was known around the world,

Is that suitcase, or 192fluid ounces of alcohol, or nutcase? 
 I thought it was a "shot that was heard around the world", so maybe it was the alcoholic content you were talking about afterall?
Perhaps that's why your glass (darkly) is only ever half full (as opposed to half-shot) or as evidenced by this ...your shot (in the dark) is fully empty of coherent thought.

Too much alcohol will pickle that brain.
It's called a dill pickle.
But I wouldn't wish you to be encumbered by that cumbersome cucumber conundrum so just read this as deity dietary advice.

Don't you eat that yellow snow[1].










 1. “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." Thomas Jefferson
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 09:53:39 AM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2011, 10:18:31 AM »
Hi, Stixoffire, welcome to WWGHA.  I'm glad to see you've decided to join us and engage our members.  My use of green boldface indicates that I am speaking as a moderator, not as a forum participant.

While your reply is welcome, it is also very difficult to read.  There is a tutorial on how to use the quoting function that will help you compose your replies in such a way that they will be more legible.  The tutorial is here:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,16778.0.html
Please review it at your earliest convenience.  Please also note that there is a "Preview" button you can use to review your post before actually posting it to ensure that you have used the quoting functions and so forth correctly.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline velkyn

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 12:44:32 PM »
There also are many non-healing related cases of events or actions that you have never heard of. Then Jesus himself walking the face of the Earth and performing all of the miracles he performed and the fact that others have seen God move through the power and name of Jesus.
And gee, with this excuse, we can know to beleive in Allah and Mohammed.
Quote
Now lets go on to your problem - after you have checked to see of all 8 billion people in the world and looked down through all history at all amputees you can say with 100% certainty that God does not heal amputees ..  From a scientific point of view you haven't got a leg to stand on. Where is your data ?
hmmm, so after you've checked all 8 billion people in the world and still haven't shown one instance of an amputee getting back a limb, you have the same problem of again having no evidence that your god merely exists.  Oh and data?  Well, dear, woldn't you think that one of your many many sects would trumpet to the skies that someone was healed in this way.  So either someone is keeping awful quiet for no good reason, or there is simply no such healings.  So which do you like? Liars or no such occurences?
Quote
From a spiritual view point - a person is saved by faith..
so Jesus did a lot of healings and raisings from the dead for what if you want to excuse your god's impotence now?
Quote
Trying to prove Gods existence by praying for an amputee to receive their legs , or praying for another to receive a healing or anything else for that matter , there is a scripture for that - It is written thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. God does not need to prove he is, he already knows he is. He has nothing to prove to anyone.
sigh, another ignorant Christain.  Sorry, but you fail spectacularly in your attempts to lie to people who have actually read the bible. Nice one!  JC said that one was to believe in the miracles to know who he is, so you fail on the claim that your god doesn’t need to prove who he is.  Or, hmmm, is your bible wrong?  Could it be? 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 01:41:01 PM »
Hello

Your web page http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

So you have taken 1 case that was known around the world, and have no explanation for it. The thousands upon thousands of other cases for which they were not documented yet are inexplicable do you have anything on those things ?

There also are many non-healing related cases of events or actions that you have never heard of. Then Jesus himself walking the face of the Earth and performing all of the miracles he performed and the fact that others have seen God move through the power and name of Jesus.

Now lets go on to your problem - after you have checked to see of all 8 billion people in the world and looked down through all history at all amputees you can say with 100% certainty that God does not heal amputees ..  From a scientific point of view you haven't got a leg to stand on. Where is your data ?

Ah, the "leave no rock unturned" BS.  Is there a proper name for this logic fallacy?


Actually it is a common combo of an appeal to ignorance, ignoring the counterevidence, and begging the question. However, primarily it is an appeal to ignorance.

Our Claim: God does not heal Amputees

His refutement: Inexplicable undocumented cases

His refutement involves the unexplained; Unexplained, must be God; why because people say so.

The thrust of his argument relies on unexplained undocumented phenomena. That's pretty much an appeal to ignorance right there.




An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2011, 04:31:45 PM »
@StixOfFire

I have not seen a posting style like that since the bulletin board era circa 1995.  At least in Fido Net we would have things like:

LU> There's a slight problem with your argument... No documentation=Does not exist, as far as I am concerned.

So we could figure out that the original text was from Lucifer.

So congratulations, StixOfFire, for moving out of that cave and learning how to use an internet browser. Or were you in a coma?

Is it Arachne, the DOS browser for your Dos 6.2 computer?  Are you viewing this on a 640x200 CGA screen?

Or is it Lynx, the text-only the browser that will run on old terminals like we used in the 1980s?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 04:55:49 PM by Historicity »

Offline Irish

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2011, 06:38:18 PM »
God heals people of things that medicine is used for - with out the medicine

An interesting point you have here and I have a way of testing this:

If God heals or has healed people of diseases that modern medicine is currently used for then there should be no increase or decrease in any disease we examine. This is due to God constantly healing people of their ailment and keeping the rate of disease rather constant throughout human history.  So if a god exists that heals people of disease we should be able to look back across recorded history and find a steady rate of disease - no statistically significant amount of increase or decrease.

Pick any disease and look at the data of recorded cases. I have chosen diphtheria due to it's clinical significance and it's long history of disease in humans. According to your statement I have quoted, modern medicine would make no difference in the incidence rate of disease as modern medicine has no effect - God heals without the medicine and hence medicine would have no effect on God's healing abilities.

This graph shows the incidence rate of diphtheria.  It also shows other diseases for reference to my argument.



Notice the decline after the introduction of the diptheria antitoxin and the decrease to near zero after the introduction of the diphtheria vaccine.  If we were to accept your argument that sharp decline would not occur directly AFTER the introduction of modern medicine.  We would either see no difference in the incidence rate after the modern medicine was introduced or a decrease in the incidence rate BEFORE the introduction of the medicines. Afterall God heals, not the medicine.

This thought experiment cannot directly prove or disprove the existence of God but it does offer a solid question on the validity of divine healing.  Why did the incidence rate of diphtheria drop immediately after the introduction of medicines to combat the disease and not before - i.e. with only God doing the healing? The only logical conclusion we can come to is that the medicine, and not God, was responsible for the drop off in historical incidence rate.
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline Irish

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Re: Your Webpage whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm [#2627]
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2011, 09:16:39 PM »
You believe in science and the Big Bang Theorey ?. Think that one through - out of nothing and complete void and the absence of any existence something happened between something that did not exist and caused a great big bang

I have three quick responses to this line:

1.) I do not believe in science.  The dictionary definition of belief describes that word as meaning: an opinion or conviction, confidence in the truth of something not susceptible to rigorous proof, faith, or a religious tenet - none of which apply to science or what I think of science. Science is not an opinion or conviction, it is susceptible to rigorous proof, it is certainly not a faith nor a religious tenet.

I accept scientific principles based on logic, reasoning, evidence, experimentation, and observations.  I do not believe in gravity, which is a theory.  I accept it based upon reasoning, evidence, and observations. I do not believe in bacteria as disease agents, part of the disease theory.  I accept that bacteria cause disease based upon observation, experimentation, evidence, and reasoning.

2.) The Big Bang Theory does not state that nothing existed and then something popped into existence.  The entire theory involves complicated physics that neither I, nor you, are qualified to speculate on.  My degree is in microbiology. I am a microbiologist and I have no qualms saying I know very little about physics.  However, Lawrence Krauss is a qualified and world famous physicist and has this video pertaining to the Big Bang: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo]

3.) You put up a the Straw Man, "nothing-from-something", argument against the Big Bang when you are clearly not a physicist (and therefore not qualified to speak on such matters) yet you fail to realize that your religion forces you to hold that position.  As Alzael mentioned above, your religion states, in the very first chapter of your holy book, that God created the universe, heavens, Earth, and everything else from nothing.  It's right there in Genesis chapter 1.  There was nothing and then God poofed! everything into existence.  How can you hold contradicting views like that?
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.