Author Topic: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".  (Read 1160 times)

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Offline Nick

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Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« on: December 02, 2011, 02:06:02 PM »
Bishop Eddie Long's wife has filed for divorce.  Remember, him?  He was accused by 4 young men of sexual contact over a long period of time.  He settled all out of court.  The church family welcomed him back wih open arms...the wife I guess not.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline velkyn

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2011, 02:49:15 PM »
and I'm sure some in the church will make her out as the villian
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Offline Historicity

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2011, 10:32:31 PM »
Christopher Hitchens had a funny article on him in Slate. 

Let me look ... ...

God's Bigmouths
Men like Bishop Eddie Long are fouling the legacy of the civil rights movement.

Quote
It is not amazing to me that the Bish is still standing and getting moist applause from the pews after the testimony of his boys brigade of LongFellows. (What the hell is that name, if not a giveaway?)

Offline Rory

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 11:26:58 AM »
This would be surprising, if the Bible did not already mention what the church will be like once they started.

Luke 13 mentions that the Devil will make the Church a home or dwell within it.

And in Revelation 3, you can find more fault within the Church itself.

You cannot dismiss the Bible simply because those who claim to follow it make mistakes.

Offline curiousgirl

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 11:39:19 AM »
Hi, Rory. Actually, I dismiss the Bible because its verses contradict each other, its claims are improbable, and it looks similar to other (older) mythology.

Of course Bible God's followers make mistakes. That is why the Bible has contradictions in it. After all, God seems to be a result of Biblical authors' combined SPAG.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline Emily

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 01:09:09 PM »
You cannot dismiss the Bible simply because those who claim to follow it make mistakes.

Welcome to the site. That's right. We shouldn't dismiss the bible because of the mistakes that the followers of the bible make, except its followers all have different ways of interpretating what the bible is meant to say. That's why there are so many different denominations in the world. We all make mistakes. It's human nature.

The way that most of us on this forum dismiss the bible is because we have looked at what the bible states and compared it with reality and found that the bible is not based on reality. I'd say 90 percent (and that's probably being conservative) of what the bible claims has not happened based on the lack of evidence, or based on the pile of evidence that contradicts the bibles' stories, and based on the contradictions within the bible itself.

I don't know. For a pastor (or any christian), when making a horrible mistake, it's easy to say that that mistake was the result of the devil, then pray to be forgiven to his or her non-existent god, then gain the flocks acceptance again.

It's really that easy. "Oh yeah, I slept with that prostitute because I was lured by the devil. I have since prayed and am forgiven by god." Then BOOM - he's accepted into the flock, because remember "thou shalt not judge" or "judge not lest ye be judged". I think that's written somewhere in the bible... 
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Offline Nick

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2011, 01:18:53 PM »
You cannot dismiss the Bible simply because those who claim to follow it make mistakes.

Welcome to the site. That's right. We shouldn't dismiss the bible because of the mistakes that the followers of the bible make, except its followers all have different ways of interpretating what the bible is meant to say. That's why there are so many different denominations in the world. We all make mistakes. It's human nature.

The way that most of us on this forum dismiss the bible is because we have looked at what the bible states and compared it with reality and found that the bible is not based on reality. I'd say 90 percent (and that's probably being conservative) of what the bible claims has not happened based on the lack of evidence, or based on the pile of evidence that contradicts the bibles' stories, and based on the contradictions within the bible itself.

I don't know. For a pastor (or any christian), when making a horrible mistake, it's easy to say that that mistake was the result of the devil, then pray to be forgiven to his or her non-existent god, then gain the flocks acceptance again.

It's really that easy. "Oh yeah, I slept with that prostitute because I was lured by the devil. I have since prayed and am forgiven by god." Then BOOM - he's accepted into the flock, because remember "thou shalt not judge" or "judge not lest ye be judged". I think that's written somewhere in the bible...
And this great need for forgiveness seem only to come after getting caught.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline velkyn

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 09:18:14 AM »
This would be surprising, if the Bible did not already mention what the church will be like once they started.

Luke 13 mentions that the Devil will make the Church a home or dwell within it.
Really, it says that in Luke 13?  Where?  I have a bible too and am quite familiar with it.   I do know it has JC being ignorant on what mustard seeds grow into.

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And in Revelation 3, you can find more fault within the Church itself.
Always good to know that your god is so inept that it can't protect this church it wanted. However, there is only one church in Rev 3 that says that the author says is at fault.  There are "churches" (plural not singular) mentioned.  I'm guessing you are one more Christain who is sure that the Roman Catholics are "wrong" and you are right.  It would indeed be just peachy if any of you could demonstrate that you aren'tn all simply spouting baseless nonsense.
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You cannot dismiss the Bible simply because those who claim to follow it make mistakes.
Oh sure I can!  It shows that your god doesn't do anything special.  Per your bible, this god used to care about what its believers did, smiting them when they got out of line.  But now, all we have are pious prating Christians who are all sure that theri versions are the only 'right' ones and all of you haveing no evidence that this god even exists, much less what it "really" meant.
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Offline Rory

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 06:51:11 PM »
Hello hello.  I hope the weekend was a good one.  I will try to reply in order here and address each person.

Curiousgirl, I'm glad you have some reasons for your position and it sounds like you have at least read the Bible which is great.  I've had multiple times in the past where I thought I've found contradictions and brought it up in Bible studies.  Each time I thought I found one, it turned out I was looking at a verse and taking it out of context, or applying my own thinking and definitions to the wording.  For example, I think one of the first ones I came across was the concept of "eye for an eye" and now Jesus is saying forgive everyone for everything no matter how many times they offend you.  Looking at those verses out of the context of their chapters and books, this would indeed be a contradiction.  However, one verse is written for the Jews under the old laws, and the other is written for the new.

I'd be curious about which contradictions you still remember and could bring up.  The one you mentioned about "Of course Bible God's followers make mistakes. That is why the Bible has contradictions in it" confused me a bit.  Did you mean that it has contradictions and thus people make mistakes, or being a follower and making mistakes is in itself a contradiction.  Because a believer in Christ is allowed to make mistakes.  Anyway, let me know and thanks for the reply.

Emily, I'd be interested in specific pieces of evidence you'd bring up.  I've read archaeological  findings that both support and deny and would check out what you show me.

I definitely am bothered by how many churches have reacted to different and multiple scandals.  Like I said, there's evil even in the Church itself which is why there are many verses to address it and why the Church is warned to vigilantly watch for it.

Nick, definitely agree with you there buddy.  It's almost like they care more about being repentant in front of others instead of caring about what God thought the whole time.

Velkyn, you sound previously offended so I hope I can help right that.  I was raised Roman Catholic and I go occasionally if a friend invites me.  I've mainly just stuck with my current church because it has helped me grow.  My current one doesn't claim a denomination so I'm not biased against one or another.  Each one just has to be careful to use God's Word and not the word of their pastor or priest alone.

God gave his Word for protection; swords and shields are often used as metaphors--and He did try to warn them...

When I said "the Church," I meant it in the sense of the followers of Christ.  That was my intent in capitalizing it. Sorry for the confusion there.

And in Luke 13 it states, "and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it."  This part of the parable is used in other parables like that in Matthew 13.  "Fowls of the air" equate to "the wicked one," "the wicked one" equates to Satan.  Very interesting that both of these are in chapter 13--I think our church did a Bible study on the use of numbers in the bible and what they can correlate to--whether it's in the context of the verse or layout of the Bible.



Thanks again for the replies, I look forward to the next ones and God willing I can get them quickly!  If you want a faster response, I think you can send messages on this thing that will notify me by email?  Not sure since I'm new to this site.

Praying for you,
Rory



Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 07:40:17 PM »
Rory:
Quote
You cannot dismiss the Bible simply because those who claim to follow it make mistakes.
We can dismiss the Bible on its own terms, regardless of what its followers do.

The whole story makes no sense. And the god in the story is a repellent character - cruel, petty, jealous, wrathful, inept and stupid. Fearing such a god would be an understandable response, if one believed in it - but loving and praising and worshipping it? No way.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 07:42:12 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline curiousgirl

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 09:29:57 PM »
Curiousgirl, I'm glad you have some reasons for your position and it sounds like you have at least read the Bible which is great.  I've had multiple times in the past where I thought I've found contradictions and brought it up in Bible studies.  Each time I thought I found one, it turned out I was looking at a verse and taking it out of context, or applying my own thinking and definitions to the wording.  For example, I think one of the first ones I came across was the concept of "eye for an eye" and now Jesus is saying forgive everyone for everything no matter how many times they offend you.  Looking at those verses out of the context of their chapters and books, this would indeed be a contradiction.  However, one verse is written for the Jews under the old laws, and the other is written for the new.

Rory, why would an omnimax God have to even change the way he wants humans to live? Was the old covenant in the OT a screw-up on his part? If it was part of his plan, why did Jesus take thousands of years to come down and die for people? Why did anyone have to die at all? "Sin" could have surely been prevented by an infinitely wise God. His plan seems pretty inefficient, even by human standards.

I'd be curious about which contradictions you still remember and could bring up.  The one you mentioned about "Of course Bible God's followers make mistakes. That is why the Bible has contradictions in it" confused me a bit.  Did you mean that it has contradictions and thus people make mistakes, or being a follower and making mistakes is in itself a contradiction.  Because a believer in Christ is allowed to make mistakes.  Anyway, let me know and thanks for the reply.


Sure, I would love to point out some contradictions. There is a whole section of this forum set aside for them. Anyway, I know this has been posted on here before, but here it is for your benefit:

http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf

There are 439 contradictions on that poster.

Here is another contradiction that bothers me. The first two verses clearly say that the sinner will die/be punished, not his/her children.

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Deuteronomy 24
16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.

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Ezekiel 18
20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

Those are clearly contradicted by these:

Quote
2 Samuel 12

13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.”

   Nathan replied, “The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the LORD, the son born to you will die.”

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Exodus 20

 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me

Anyway, regarding Christians making mistakes, everyone makes mistakes. It is just that the mistakes of Christians ended up showing up in the Bible because of their Self-Projection as God (SPAG).
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline Poseidon

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2011, 09:33:45 PM »
Perhaps we should not allow ourselves to refer to THE bible.  Bibles come in many forms. In the US we are usually, but not always, referring to the KJV when we say; THE bible.  That particular one was contrived (I use the term advisedly) by a group of 54 presumed scholars in about the year 1600.  The scholars were divided into six groups, each of which was to translate and write about a particular section of the existing texts. Having completed their tasks the group was then taken to a sort of court where their work would be adjudicated and chosen or not chosen.  All the while the writings had to be considerate of the influence and beliefs of the reigning king. In this case King James !V.

Sixteenth century england had been the scene of numerous contradictory reformations. From one reign to the next there were protestant and anti protestestant monarchys. As a result, England had two competing versions of the holy scriptures. The Geneva bible of 1560 drew on the translations of William Tyndale, martyered for his heresy in 1536. That bible was loved by puritans but it was anti royal. During the Elizabethan period the so called Bishops Bible was produced on short notice in 1568. It was decidedly in favor of the queen and her authority. The bishops bible was not popular because it was composed of a rather  pompous bunch of writing.  This was a world where there was no gap between religion and politics.

The new bible of King James was not a huge success. The english preferred the Geneva bible that they knew and loved. By the middle of the 1600s the king James became the preferred text and it had almost completely replaced its predecessors. Early editions were rife with printed errors. The famous Wicked Bible of 1631 printed deutronomy 5:24 meant to celebrate gods greatness as ...."And ye said, behold the lord our god hath shewed us his glory and his great asse".  It also leftout some crucial words. Exodus 20:14 "Thou shalt commit adultery"

Meanwhile we have newer edtions with prefixes and suffixes such as new, revised, and version.  Does the history and even the names suggest that they are the true word of god? When we refer to THE bible we must identify which particular set of writings that we choose to quote.  For these reasons, I am hesitant to accord any bible much credibility.


Offline Historicity

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 09:46:43 PM »
Yeah, Poseidon.  A book on the authorship of the KJV is God's Secretaries noted that the Geneva Bible had hundreds of occasions to use the word "tyrant" but the King James Bible does not have such criticism of royalty.

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 10:45:02 PM »
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 10:15:31 AM »
Velkyn, you sound previously offended so I hope I can help right that.  I was raised Roman Catholic and I go occasionally if a friend invites me.  I've mainly just stuck with my current church because it has helped me grow.  My current one doesn't claim a denomination so I'm not biased against one or another.  Each one just has to be careful to use God's Word and not the word of their pastor or priest alone.
nah, I’m not offended.  I’m just asking for evidence of your claims.  Oh and you do have a sect, you just aren’t naming it as many have.  Each church comes up with its own version of what God “really” meant and with just as much evidence they are right as the next aka none. 
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God gave his Word for protection; swords and shields are often used as metaphors--and He did try to warn them...
Not sure what you are replying to with this comment.  And yep, your bible does have metaphors in it.  It’s always interesting to see Christians declare what is “really” metaphor and what is “really” literal.  I wonder, since you mention swords, are you good with your supposed savior bringing a “sword” to cause harm to families, etc? As for warning people, how so, Rory?  By parables that JC has supposedly picked and chosen who will comprehend them and who won’t? 
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When I said "the Church," I meant it in the sense of the followers of Christ.  That was my intent in capitalizing it. Sorry for the confusion there.
No problem. However, can you define for me what you think the followers of Christ are? How can we tell a real one and a false one?
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And in Luke 13 it states, "and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it."  This part of the parable is used in other parables like that in Matthew 13.  "Fowls of the air" equate to "the wicked one," "the wicked one" equates to Satan.  Very interesting that both of these are in chapter 13--I think our church did a Bible study on the use of numbers in the bible and what they can correlate to--whether it's in the context of the verse or layout of the Bible.
Hilarious to see you claim that birds really mean Satan.
Let’s look at the verses (I’m using the NIV but feel free to use your own, good website for bibles: www.biblegateway.com
Quote
  18 Then Jesus asked, “What is the kingdom of God like? What shall I compare it to? 19 It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his garden. It grew and became a tree, and the birds perched in its branches.”
 20 Again he asked, “What shall I compare the kingdom of God to? 21 It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds[a] of flour until it worked all through the dough.” .
So, who decided that birds were “really” satan?   What in the “context” supports this interpretation?  And oooh, chapter 13, skeeeerry number.  &)  Matthew 13 also has this parable in it
Quote
31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. 32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”
 33 He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds of flour until it worked all through the dough.”
again, in this context where does it show that birds should be considered Satan?   and it’s curious that first JC claims that yeast is like the kingdom of god but a lot of the other references to yeast is that it’s bad, the “yeast of the Pharisees” etc.  Your supposed savoir also claims that birds are good all over the place, that God himself takes care of them.  Also, mustard seeds make herbaceous plants about a meter high, not a tree and no birds can’t perch on them, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_plant  Well, maybe a hummingbird can.  No wonder the apostles had such a time figuring out what the heck JC meant most of the time.  It seems that you are quite content accepting what others tell you rather than working it out yourself.  It’s always curiosu that this god can’t get its’ message out clearly but requires constant excuses and reinterpretation on what it “really” meant.
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Thanks again for the replies, I look forward to the next ones and God willing I can get them quickly!  If you want a faster response, I think you can send messages on this thing that will notify me by email?  Not sure since I'm new to this site.
Praying for you,
Rory
I’m going to guess that at some point you’ll use God as an excuse on why you can’t answer our questions.  It’s very easy to abandon your responsibility when you can claim some magical being did something.  I’m also wondering what you think will happen when you “pray” for us.  What are you praying for, Rory?  That your god will mind control us to accept your claims?  I’ve had at least several hundred self-professed Christians claim that they will pray for me.  Considering that I’m still an atheist and my life never changes after their claim, I’m amused that they have failed so miserably.  Does god ignore everyone’s prayers?  Does he like me as I am?  Does the Christian lie and not pray at all?  All possibilities and all not very good for your side.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2011, 10:33:01 AM »
I think birds really are Satan.  One crapped on my head the other day.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2011, 06:21:48 PM »
The OP shows that the people of god are no better and probably a sight worse than we atheists. What's that all aboot? How is it that we godless people manage to refrain from molesting the young persons placed in our care? Why doesn't god do anything about his flock?

("Flock" here is used as a metaphor for a group of people with related beliefs, not actually a reference to feathered creatures.)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Emily

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2011, 06:33:22 PM »
Emily, I'd be interested in specific pieces of evidence you'd bring up.  I've read archaeological  findings that both support and deny and would check out what you show me.

Honestly, I don't have any 'evidence' that supports my opinion that god didn't created the universe in six day, that there was never a flood, or a tower of babel, or a virgin birth, or a saviors resurrection.

I have a lack of evidence. There I said it.

I mean, big bang cosmology is much more compelling evidence than the first couple chapters of genesis.
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Offline Rory

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2011, 08:53:07 PM »
Good evening!

Holy smokes--talk about the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. lol. 

I probably won't have time tonight to respond to everyone, especially if curiousgirl wants me to go into detail on the 439 misunderstandings :)  Although after some online research it looks like most of those arguments are nothing new and have already been touched on by other Christians since the poster's debut.  But I can definitely help if needed!  And thank you very much for the message curiousgirl.

Gnu, I will agree with jealous and wrathful.  But as for cruel, petty, inept and stupid, I will offer that He is righteous, just, strong and wise.
"The Lord is righteous: he hath cut asunder the cords of the wicked." Psalms 129:4
"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deuteronomy 32:4
"He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?" Job 9:4.

(Notice how all those are from the fourth verse of those chapters...lol, just a joke meant for velkyn.)

curiousgirl, the old testament is fulfilled by the new.  The screw up is on our part, and Jesus was a part of the plan the entire time (ref. Isaiah).

Hebrews is a great book to help with the understanding of the old and new testaments and Christ's death for our sins:
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.  For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." Hebrews 9:14-16

Hebrews has been the topic of one of my recent Bible studies and it has been really enjoyable and beneficial.  It helps us understand just how detailed this plan of God's is and how impressive it is that the Bible was written over such a long time span with multiple authors to help reveal it.

Regarding the contradictions, would you like me address each?  After reviewing the list, many have been brought up before and the majority are refuted once put in the right context.  I'm not sure how many you agree with if you've given the time to seek an answer for any, let alone all 439.

So barring the longest response ever, I will address the specific one you mentioned.  It is a good one.  Deuteronomy's verse is within the context of societal law, not an indication of what God will do.  The verse from Ezekiel has to do with guilt vs innocence.  The children will not be guilty.  Punishment can visit upon the innocent looking at Jesus and the verses you later share.  So while yes the children died, like in Egypt with the first born sons, they are not sharing their parent's guilt.



All,  I would like to share lessons we can learn from Matthew 4:5-7

"Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

This is an amazing example within the Bible of what happens when scripture is taken out of context.  The devil took scripture out of its original context as a means to tempt Jesus.  When we look at scripture out of context or rely on our own interpretations, or even the explanations I am giving you right now, there is a risk that we will make a mistake.  I've misunderstood scripture before and spent a whole week fasting because I misread a verse and relied on my own understanding.  If you continue in the word and pray for understanding, seek understanding in God's terms and not your own, compare scripture with scripture, you will gain understanding.

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not to thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrew 4:12

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

I gotta get going, curiousgirl and gnu, let me know if that helps, or if I need to revisit something (even the 439 thing--it'd probably be easier to address a specific contradiction that has you seeking understanding).

Everyone else, I'll do my best to quickly respond later.

Praying that the fowls of the air do not catch that which was sown in your hearts (ref. Matthew 13),
Rory

Offline curiousgirl

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2011, 10:07:22 PM »

curiousgirl, the old testament is fulfilled by the new.  The screw up is on our part, and Jesus was a part of the plan the entire time (ref. Isaiah).

If we are supposedly made in God's image, and we screwed up, I would think that would reflect on him. I think it is ridiculous that God the Son had to become a human and die to fix the boo-boo of letting Satan tempt Adam and Eve into sinning in the first place.


Hebrews is a great book to help with the understanding of the old and new testaments and Christ's death for our sins:
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.  For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." Hebrews 9:14-16

Couldn't an omnimax God have been consistent with his will? There did not have to be an OT and a NT. There did not have to be a change of covenants. An omnimax God should get it right the first time. A God with unlimited power could surely think up a better solution than sending part of its Trinity to suffer and die.

God supposedly made the rules, so he could have made things easier to begin with. We should not have needed a "mediator." There need not have been any blood shed for sins, as they were entirely preventable. Also, if sin was part of some master plan, why is it that " ...the wages of sin is death..." according to Romans 6:23? God could have made the "wages" of sin a slap on the wrist or he could have erased A&E's memory or something infinitely more clever than condemning them to death.

Hebrews has been the topic of one of my recent Bible studies and it has been really enjoyable and beneficial.  It helps us understand just how detailed this plan of God's is and how impressive it is that the Bible was written over such a long time span with multiple authors to help reveal it.

Regarding the contradictions, would you like me address each?  After reviewing the list, many have been brought up before and the majority are refuted once put in the right context.  I'm not sure how many you agree with if you've given the time to seek an answer for any, let alone all 439.


Rory, address whichever ones you like.

So barring the longest response ever, I will address the specific one you mentioned.  It is a good one.  Deuteronomy's verse is within the context of societal law, not an indication of what God will do.  The verse from Ezekiel has to do with guilt vs innocence.  The children will not be guilty.  Punishment can visit upon the innocent looking at Jesus and the verses you later share.  So while yes the children died, like in Egypt with the first born sons, they are not sharing their parent's guilt.

My bolding above. So you are fine with the fact that God killed kids for the sins of their parents, even though the first two verses say that would not happen? Can God basically do whatever he likes and not be held to his own standards that he provided for mankind? Sounds like a tyrant, a dictator who says "do as I say, not as I do." He also sounds like a liar.

By the way, if the children did not share their parents guilt, why the hell did they have to die? Sounds illogical to me, Rory. Sounds like you are making excuses for the barbaric actions of your tyrannical (fictional) God.


All,  I would like to share lessons we can learn from Matthew 4:5-7

"Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

This is an amazing example within the Bible of what happens when scripture is taken out of context.  The devil took scripture out of its original context as a means to tempt Jesus.  When we look at scripture out of context or rely on our own interpretations, or even the explanations I am giving you right now, there is a risk that we will make a mistake.  I've misunderstood scripture before and spent a whole week fasting because I misread a verse and relied on my own understanding.  If you continue in the word and pray for understanding, seek understanding in God's terms and not your own, compare scripture with scripture, you will gain understanding.

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not to thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrew 4:12

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17.


Rory the problem with that is that so many different Christians will interpret verses differently. How do you know which of them has a true understanding of the Word?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline albeto

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2011, 11:28:14 PM »
Gnu, I will agree with jealous and wrathful.  But as for cruel, petty, inept and stupid, I will offer that He is righteous, just, strong and wise.

Bullshit.  You're just saying this because you've been taught this is so.  If you were to attribute the actions of your god to any other character in history, "righteous," "just," and "wise" would not be in your list at all.  This is essential "might makes right" logic here, which is to say, there is no logic to it at all but rationalization (and pathetic and foolish rationalization at that). 

Hebrews has been the topic of one of my recent Bible studies and it has been really enjoyable and beneficial.  It helps us understand just how detailed this plan of God's is and how impressive it is that the Bible was written over such a long time span with multiple authors to help reveal it.

I think Christians must be willfully ignorant.  I know I was.  I, like you, had convinced myself that my understanding was the right understanding and everyone else was wrong.  Self, I would say, Do you realize how privileged you are to have the very living spirit of the eternal GOD sharing with you his love and wisdom?  And that shit would always make me smile, help me suppress those pesky questions that came up when I wondered why other people were so sure their understanding was god-given. 

So barring the longest response ever, I will address the specific one you mentioned.  It is a good one.  Deuteronomy's verse is within the context of societal law, not an indication of what God will do.  The verse from Ezekiel has to do with guilt vs innocence.  The children will not be guilty.  Punishment can visit upon the innocent looking at Jesus and the verses you later share.  So while yes the children died, like in Egypt with the first born sons, they are not sharing their parent's guilt.

See, and if you really knew the heart and soul of God, you'd be Catholic, just like I was, because that makes the most sense when you read the bible (wait for it...) as a whole. 

If you continue in the word and pray for understanding, seek understanding in God's terms and not your own, compare scripture with scripture, you will gain understanding.

You do realize, I hope, that with this special magic decoder ring, you've appointed yourself the pope - the one God has given protection to interpret scriptures with HIS understanding (cue violins).  You have announced yourself the vicar of christ - the one through whom christ speaks vicariously.  Congratulations, you know better than every other christian around.  I wonder of our friend Lance knew that.  He was under the mistaken impression that your god let him know the real scoop. 

Praying that the fowls of the air do not catch that which was sown in your hearts (ref. Matthew 13),
Rory

The longer I'm an atheist, the more I think of prayers like this as mental masturbation.  It serves to release endorphins and excite the pleasure center of the brain and that's all because the god you're praying to isn't real.  And you know it. 

Allow yourself to ask the questions in the back of your mind when you doubt.  Next time you pray, "I believe, help o thou my unbelief" think about this.  Why would you want to believe if the story isn't real?  Why would you want to suppress your reason and intellect to hang on to a fantasy?  Stop holding yourself back and be free from the constraints of faith.  You can do it and I bet you'll be happier for it. 

Offline velkyn

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2011, 10:05:01 AM »
Good evening!
Holy smokes--talk about the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. lol. 
I probably won't have time tonight to respond to everyone, especially if curiousgirl wants me to go into detail on the 439 misunderstandings :)  Although after some online research it looks like most of those arguments are nothing new and have already been touched on by other Christians since the poster's debut.  But I can definitely help if needed!  And thank you very much for the message curiousgirl.
Misunderstandings, what nonsense.  And yes, we get the same excuses, which all amount to magic decoder rings and appeals to some magic communion with the “holy spirit”. 
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Gnu, I will agree with jealous and wrathful.  But as for cruel, petty, inept and stupid, I will offer that He is righteous, just, strong and wise.
"The Lord is righteous: he hath cut asunder the cords of the wicked." Psalms 129:4
"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deuteronomy 32:4
"He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?" Job 9:4.
  Actions speak louder than myths.  We see no evidence of this god even existing much less being what you claim.  Tell me, how is it “just” to punish someone for another’s crimes?  Your god can’t even keep its own commandments. Oh and those commandments, if the OT is null and void, why are so many Christians so demanding that those now pointless commandments be put up in public buildings in the US.   Don’t they agree with your version of Chrisitanity? 
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(Notice how all those are from the fourth verse of those chapters...lol, just a joke meant for velkyn.)
Aw, a joke.  And oooooh, mysterious numbers, nice to see that you can’t actually answer my question but have to make “jokes”. 
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curiousgirl, the old testament is fulfilled by the new.  The screw up is on our part, and Jesus was a part of the plan the entire time (ref. Isaiah).
Nah, JC doesn’t think so since he consistently says that following his “father’s” laws is important.  And It’s so funny to see Christians claim that Isaiah etc are “prophecies” when they so ineptly ignore the parts of real prophecies that show their supposed “messiah” to be not the right one.  We can read the bible and know that this is the case. 
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Hebrews is a great book to help with the understanding of the old and new testaments and Christ's death for our sins:
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.  For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." Hebrews 9:14-16
ah a Paualianist, and not a Christian, so that’s the trouble.  Ignore JC for Paul, good idea there! Most “christains” do because JC is just so inconvenient, expecting people to give up all of their family and wealth to follow him since he promised that the end times would be right around the corner.  Hard to keep that up when it’s been, what? 2000+ years and counting?  and love the random declaration that a “testator” has to die.  Really?  why?
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Hebrews has been the topic of one of my recent Bible studies and it has been really enjoyable and beneficial.  It helps us understand just how detailed this plan of God's is and how impressive it is that the Bible was written over such a long time span with multiple authors to help reveal it.
and hilariously anti-Jew.  It also makes Paul look rather ignorant with claims like this “ 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?”  Ah, no, seems this goes against a good part of the basic story of the bible. Oh yes, and exactly when is this “Sabbath”?  even Christians can’t agree.  Hebrews also claims that one who has fallen away can’t be brought back, but JC never says that at all, indeed the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming against the “holy spirit”.  So which is it?  And how does this jibe with the claims in Romans where only God pick and choose who gets to go to heaven/the city of heaven on earth without actions or belief making any difference?  Does this god make them fall away because it’s certainly of no choice of the human?  Paul can’t even keep his own story straight, of course assuming the same man wrote all of this nonsense.

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Regarding the contradictions, would you like me address each?  After reviewing the list, many have been brought up before and the majority are refuted once put in the right context.  I'm not sure how many you agree with if you've given the time to seek an answer for any, let alone all 439.
Ah, the appeal to context.  Sorry, no they generally aren’t.  So get to work, Rory.  But, by all means, pick out some you think are good ones.
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So barring the longest response ever, I will address the specific one you mentioned.  It is a good one.  Deuteronomy's verse is within the context of societal law, not an indication of what God will do.  The verse from Ezekiel has to do with guilt vs innocence.  The children will not be guilty.  Punishment can visit upon the innocent looking at Jesus and the verses you later share.  So while yes the children died, like in Egypt with the first born sons, they are not sharing their parent's guilt.
Bzzzt. Fail. No, Rory, in Exodus and Deuteronomy, all of the laws are given by directly God, so you can’t divide them into “societal” and then declare the laws you like what was “really” meant by your god.  I’d suggest actually reading your bible and not apologists.  You’ll see what it really says.  I have, both as a believer and as not.  Most revealing, to read it with no one telling me what it “really” means.
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All,  I would like to share lessons we can learn from Matthew 4:5-7
"Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

Funny how God didn’t mind being tested at all in the OT.  Nice that you’ve declared you can ignore it isn’t it? 
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This is an amazing example within the Bible of what happens when scripture is taken out of context.  The devil took scripture out of its original context as a means to tempt Jesus.  When we look at scripture out of context or rely on our own interpretations, or even the explanations I am giving you right now, there is a risk that we will make a mistake.  I've misunderstood scripture before and spent a whole week fasting because I misread a verse and relied on my own understanding.  If you continue in the word and pray for understanding, seek understanding in God's terms and not your own, compare scripture with scripture, you will gain understanding.
Oh yes, our “own” interpretations.  Like you’re doing.  or are you using someone else’s interpretations.  So, how do you know those are correct?  Let me guess, you’ll claim that the “holy spirit” told you what God “really” meant.  So do all of those Christians who you disagree with.  Pity, that.
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"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not to thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5
good we don’t do this since god can’t even figure out that claiming to destroy a city to the point where no one ever ever finds it again is pretty silly when puny humans can do that with no problem.
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"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrew 4:12
ooohh, I’m skeered.  Funny how this god is either impotent or imaginary when it omes to actually doing something.
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"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
Oh really?  So then it’s okay for Christians to murder people who don’t accept their “savior”?  Luke 19 says that right clearly.  But I’m sure you are likely ignorant of the parable of the 10 minas as you are with so much else.
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Praying that the fowls of the air do not catch that which was sown in your hearts (ref. Matthew 13),
Rory
oh, those birds that God cares so much about? 
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Mark 4: 30 Again he said, “What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use to describe it? 31 It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest of all seeds on earth. 32 Yet when planted, it grows and becomes the largest of all garden plants, with such big branches that the birds can perch in its shade.” 33 With many similar parables Jesus spoke the word to them, as much as they could understand. 34 He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything
Seems that the birds are benefiting from the mustard seed,  not harming it at all.  Funny how your “gospels”  can be shown to mean so many different things.  Oh and again, mustard plants aren’t even remotely the largest plants in a garden.  Your god that supposedly inspired this nonsensical book is again wrong.  Can’t even get the simplest details right by looking at a plant so just how is it to be thought of as wise?

and birds are beloved by god almost as much as humans
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Luke 12: 22 Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life? 26 Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?
   27 “Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith! 29 And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.
   32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Funny how Christians ignore these verses too.  Got insurance, Rory?  Got a bank account?  Why if the above is true?  You see, I find most, if not all, Chrisitans, utter hypocrites, all desperately ignoring their bible or “interpreting” it so they don’t actually have to do what their supposed savior said.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Rory

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2011, 08:17:43 PM »
Good evening to those who have posted and to those who visit!

I still owe some replies; I may try to condense my responses to get to more.

Poseidon, eloquently put.  Hebrew and Greek translations are the closest thing we've got to the original texts.  The English translations, while not perfect, still provide for the elementary teachings of Christ and allow God's will to be done and for people to reach salvation.  It's not like only people who have the KJV of the Bible are saved.  And it's not like people have only been growing from God's Word since 1611.

Is each Bible identical to one another? No.  This only gives more reason for one to cross check scripture with scripture to see if there are any contradictions.  "Thou shalt commit adultery" in one, and "thou shalt not commit adultery" in another would be an obvious one.


velkyn, you ask for evidence of my claims, then try to tell me I have a sect even though I make no mention of having one.

Yes I'm fine with him using a sword.

Yes, Parables are used, and in some cases, spelled out word for word so you don't even have to rely on me to explain it to you! 

I'll help you again with the whole bird/devil thing and parables.  Luke 8:5-12.

I have a quick list from some time ago on how to tell if you have been saved--not how to become saved, I do not claim this list to be complete:
2 Cor 5:17--look for a change
1 John 3:14--You love other Christians, 23-24--You believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, you keep the commandments
1 John 5:13-15--He answers prayers that are aligned with his will
1 John 4:13--He gives you the Holy Spirit
1 Cor 2:10-16--You understand scripture

Birds are Satan? In the context of that parable, yes.  Luke 8, might be a little easier for you to see that than Matthew 13.  No reinterpretation needed, no outside influences telling you or me what was really meant.

Your yeast parable vs the yeast of the Pharisee is an argument taking verses both out of context and misunderstanding the whole point.  You could say that bread is good but don't eat this kind.  There is no contradiction.  And I don't think anyone really feels the point of that verse was so that people don't physically eat the bread of the Pharisees.  It is a symbolic analysis of doctrine.

I have not made excuses nor tried to abandon a "responsibilities."  Your assumptions of my future actions and personal beliefs are what indicate that you both take this personally and have been previously offended.  So having seen my own mistakes in the past and the mistakes of other people claiming to be Christians, I can understand your position.

I do not believe that God will "mind control" you.

Yes I pray, always.  "Pray without ceasing" 1 Thess 5:17

I believe my prayers will be answered if they are in accordance with his will.
 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him." 1 John 5:13-15

I'm sure you've had people pray for you in the past, so if those individuals were saved, and they prayed in accordance with God's will, it's only a matter of time now ;)

And add one more person to that list of people praying, although I laughed when I started praying for "velkyn" the other day.

I have to go, God willing I will reply to those remaining quickly, sorry I could not respond to everything tonight.

Love,
Rory



Offline velkyn

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2011, 09:41:21 AM »
Is each Bible identical to one another? No.  This only gives more reason for one to cross check scripture with scripture to see if there are any contradictions.  "Thou shalt commit adultery" in one, and "thou shalt not commit adultery" in another would be an obvious one.
funny how your god allows this to happen. Why no simple direct understandable bible and not having people kill each other over differing opinions on what god “really” meant?
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velkyn, you ask for evidence of my claims, then try to tell me I have a sect even though I make no mention of having one.
  A sect is simply what you think your god really meant.  The Catholics think one thing, the various Protestant sects, another, the orthodox another, and all of the various churches that try to avoid the problem of “religion” by declaring that they are only into a “relationship”.  All sure that they are the only TrueChristianstm and all with no more evidence that they are than the next sect. 
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Yes I'm fine with him using a sword.
Ah, I’m sure you are.  Many Christians are quite happy with their fantasies that their god will harm those who dare disagree with the believer.  What I find amusing that this god of yours doesn’t use a sword at all, and indeed ignores the supposedly evil acts of its believers.  Again, a god that doesn’t exist fulfils this quite well. 

I do enjoy how you ignore my questions.  I’ll post them again. “Actions speak louder than myths.  We see no evidence of this god even existing much less being what you claim.  Tell me, how is it “just” to punish someone for another’s crimes?  Your god can’t even keep its own commandments. Oh and those commandments, if the OT is null and void, why are so many Christians so demanding that those now pointless commandments be put up in public buildings in the US.   Don’t they agree with your version of Chrisitanity?”
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Yes, Parables are used, and in some cases, spelled out word for word so you don't even have to rely on me to explain it to you!
Which is hysterical since your supposed savior used parable to intentionally make sure that some people will never understand and be saved. I do enjoy when Christians try to make believe certain parts of their bible dont’ exist.  Unfortunate for you that anyone can read the bible and know better.   
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I'll help you again with the whole bird/devil thing and parables.  Luke 8:5-12.
   Amazing how powerful Satan is!  Golly, so much for an omnipotent god and for the choice of people to believe or not.  Your god can’t sow “seed” at all, can he?  Again, we see more evidence that your god is not just or even smart, but that per your magic book, no one has any chance of accepting god other than those your god intends.  Not fair or just at all.

Let’s look at the parable of the mustard seed and see how birds are used in that one:

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31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. 32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”
So, Rory, does Satan perch in the kingdom of heaven and take refuge there as these birds do?  Or is it that the birds are believers who come to reside in the kingdom of heaven? 

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  I have a quick list from some time ago on how to tell if you have been saved--not how to become saved, I do not claim this list to be complete:
2 Cor 5:17--look for a change
What kind of “change” Rory?  How do you see that it’s a real one and not an act?   
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1 John 3:14--You love other Christians,
Oh yes, how Catholics and Protestants love each other? 
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23-24--You believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, you keep the commandments
Really, all of the commandments?  So you kill those who work on the Sabbath?  You see, Rory, your supposed savior never says any of the commandments are to be ignored, and they sure don’t stop at ten. I’m sure you’ll try to claim some sort of excuse.  Go ahead, I’ve seen them all and shown how they are wrong.
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1 John 5:13-15--He answers prayers that are aligned with his will
  These verses: “13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.”

JC himself said that a believer may ask *anything* and it will be fulfilled quickly and positively.  No “aligned by his will”.  That was a rather nice rewrite by people who were starting to realize that the promises of JC were failing and that they needed to do a bit of an adjustment on expectations.  I wonder, how does one know if one is asking according to his will?  OR is it the circular argument that only those prayers that get fulfilled by coincidence are the only ones that count and that “obviously” anything else is not God’s will.  I guess then that God’s will is that children starve, etc.   
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1 John 4:13--He gives you the Holy Spirit
again, how can we tell?  I see Christians of all types claim that they have this holy spirit.  Who “really” has it?
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1 Cor 2:10-16--You understand scripture
Love this one best.  Because it means for every Christian “You understand the scripture just as I do or I won’t consider you a TrueChristiantm”. 
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Birds are Satan? In the context of that parable, yes.  Luke 8, might be a little easier for you to see that than Matthew 13.  No reinterpretation needed, no outside influences telling you or me what was really meant.
However, birds are not in the context of the mustard seed one, not at all.  unless, again, you can show how Satan lives in the kingdom of heaven.  Please do.
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Your yeast parable vs the yeast of the Pharisee is an argument taking verses both out of context and misunderstanding the whole point.  You could say that bread is good but don't eat this kind.  There is no contradiction.  And I don't think anyone really feels the point of that verse was so that people don't physically eat the bread of the Pharisees.  It is a symbolic analysis of doctrine.
I love claims of how I took things out of context and misunderstood things and then no demonstration of that.  Yep, you *could* say that bread good but don’t eat this kind.  However, in the yeast parable, it doesn’t even say that, it says that it isn’t even good.  And I dont’ care about baseless comments that you don’t thinks that “anyone” does whatever.  I didn’t say anything about the bread being literal.&) or that anyone was eating it. 

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I have not made excuses nor tried to abandon a "responsibilities."  Your assumptions of my future actions and personal beliefs are what indicate that you both take this personally and have been previously offended.  So having seen my own mistakes in the past and the mistakes of other people claiming to be Christians, I can understand your position.
Again with the magic psychic Christian claims.   No, I’m not offended, I’m simply amused and pointing out just how hypocritical you are.  I suppose I shouldn’t’ seeing it’s like shooting fish in a barrel.  But again, do you have insurance? A bank account? or do you follow the words of your supposed savior?
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I do not believe that God will "mind control" you.
Yes I pray, always.  "Pray without ceasing" 1 Thess 5:17
I believe my prayers will be answered if they are in accordance with his will.
again, nice ignoring of your own bible.  Again, what do you expect to happen when you pray?  What did you pray for, Rory? 
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I'm sure you've had people pray for you in the past, so if those individuals were saved, and they prayed in accordance with God's will, it's only a matter of time now ;)
. If you actually believe this, then why does prayer fail every single time?  Why does nothing actually happen when asked like the moutntain moving when commanded?  The bible doesn’t say that it moves 3 decades later.   But as it seems, you also don’t believe that prayer works and that it can do anything. 
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And add one more person to that list of people praying, although I laughed when I started praying for "velkyn" the other day.
again, what do you pray for? 
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I have to go, God willing I will reply to those remaining quickly, sorry I could not respond to everything tonight.
  And gee, god willing.  So you have your excuse at the ready if you bail.  it’s not you, it’s “really” god that controls you.  As for any claims of “love”, I do wonder if you know what that means.  Your bible is quite interesting on that, especially on how your own god fails at its supposedly divinely inspired definition of it.

You seem quite intent on picking and choosing what you’ll respond to.   Questionsn are asked of you for a reason, Rory.  This is a discussion forum, not a soap box for you to remain unchallenged.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Rory

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 06:05:54 PM »
Good afternoon everyone!

My tire went flat during work today so thankfully I will have some time here to reply until my phone dies, lol.

Nick, I'm sorry a bird pooped on you.



nogodsforme, the actions of one do not mean that all Christians are worse than non-Christians.
God will judge that man at the judgment seat of Christ. And he will have to give account for his sins.
"...for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." Rom 14:10-12


Emily, science and history do not have to conflict with God's Word. Faith does not come from scientist, archeologist, or someone persuading you or convincing you about God. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17



Sadly my phone is going to die soon.  I believe curiousgirl is the next person that I will try to reply to.  I am trying to reply in order of the posts. If I missed your question in a resonse let me know. Velkyn, I know I still have a lot to get to so I'm letting you know how Ive been trying to go in order here.


Offline Nick

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2011, 06:55:51 PM »
Why did God allow you to have a flat tire?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online nogodsforme

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2011, 07:21:41 PM »
It's not just Bishop Eddie Long.

The list of criminal and bad-acting pastors, priests, preachers and holier-than-thou politicians is laughably [Eddie] long. Faith in god does not seem strong enough to make these people behave-- they are just so full of Satan, evil and sin. Yet, most atheists somehow manage to keep all that Satan, evil and sin under control. Atheists are law-abiding, ethical and socially responsible without any religion at all.

You would expect the front pages to be full of stories about atheist parents drowning their kids in the name of Darwin, or going on shooting rampages, massacreing believers down at the local church, mosque or synogoge. Or blowing ourselves up in public places while shouting "Science is great!" When have a group of atheists ever taken over a religious school board and demanded that the school start teaching evolution instead of Christianity? But no, that stuff is almost always the fault of you guys with god on your side.

Survey after survey shows that more highly religious places have more and more serious social problems than the more secular countries, states and regions. More porn downloaded, more child abuse, more divorce, lower education levels, lower incomes, higher teen pregnancies, more people in jail, more executions. You name it, if it's bad, the religious have it worse.

God does not intervene to help his flocks, and fear of god or faith in god does not make people behave. Without god, we do better. That is the larger point.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2011, 10:24:14 PM »
My tire went flat during work today so thankfully I will have some time here to reply until my phone dies, lol.

(Goddess of Random Equipment Malfunctions smiles quietly to Herself)  ;)

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"...for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." Rom 14:10-12

Well, Rory, personally I don't think anything remotely like that is ever going to happen.  If Jesus ever existed, it's My guess that his mortal remains are in a mass grave somewhere in the vicinity of Golgotha.  My understanding is that dead people don't come back to life, and that the Romans weren't in the habit of handing over bodies for private burial.

Oh, and dead people don't tend to have functional knees or tongues, either.  I think Paul of Tarsus is just spouting the literary equivalent of "Wait till your dad gets home!"
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Bishop Eddie Long's wife says, "Hit the road Jack".
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2011, 08:47:47 AM »
always amusing ot watch Christains give a lot of excuses why they can't reply when they could simply reply and get the same amount of typing done.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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