Author Topic: Why does God hate himself?  (Read 2251 times)

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Offline albeto

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2011, 01:53:06 AM »
"makes no sense?" excuse me? Tell me somewhere in the Bible that God specifically ordered the creation of religion. God endorse fellowship only BUT not religion. There's a difference between these two - a huge difference.

@albeto LOL.

But why should anyone care what's written in the bible?

« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 02:19:07 AM by albeto »

Offline Chronos

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2011, 07:32:29 AM »
"makes no sense?" excuse me? Tell me somewhere in the Bible that God specifically ordered the creation of religion. God endorse fellowship only BUT not religion. There's a difference between these two - a huge difference.

Show me somewhere in the bible that god specifically ordered the creation of you.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2011, 08:09:50 AM »
"makes no sense?" excuse me? Tell me somewhere in the Bible that God specifically ordered the creation of religion. God endorse fellowship only BUT not religion. There's a difference between these two - a huge difference.

@albeto LOL.
Apparently Paul had a different idea then God about religion.

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/14-33.htm
1 Corinthians 4:17 For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

The bible does talk about religions. Doesn't say not to have them anywhere that I know of.
Acts 26:5
Galatians 1:13
Galatians 1:14
James 1:26
James 1:27
1 Timothy 5:4
Colossians 2:18; Colossians2:23


Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2011, 08:22:15 AM »
.....God didn't write the BIBLE jus so you can read and understand like any other book. the BIBLE is coded and only through FAITH would you understand it's meaning. ......it is Faith that God is after not knowledge.

Interesting.  So god doesn't want us to KNOW he exists, he wants faith.  Makes me feel ever so sorry for Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, David.....and the disciples as well, I suppose.  Many, many people given sure and certain knowledge of god's existence.  I presume god was not interested in their faith at all.

But here's a funny thing.....for a being who wants faith, not knowledge, then surely creating the Bible is a bit of a ridiculous notion?  A book that goes into great detail about who he is, what he wants, how he created everything....its almost as if he DOES want us to know what he's all about.  A being that valued faith above all things would not see to the production of a 1000+ page book that is one of the most widely distributed of all time.....no, a being who desired "faith" would restrict himself to a couple pages - or, better yet, word of mouth.

(To be honest, the god you are describing sounds like the self-effacing individual who does a "lot of good work for charity that they don't like to talk about"...... and yet who, somehow, manages to let everyone know that they've done it.  The right word escapes me at present.)

He'd also make sure he didn't leave any evidence around....after all, proof denies faith, and without faith he is nothing.  So we'd see no more evidence of Yahweh (the "true" god) than we do of Sri Ganesh or Odin.  I'm sure you would agree that there is no evidence of your god, given your insistence on the requirments of faith.  I look forward to you visiting some of the threads in the forum where other Christians present their "evidence" and letting them know the error of their ways.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2011, 08:25:44 AM »
Quote
"lot of good work for charity that they don't like to talk about"...... and yet who, somehow, manages to let everyone know that they've done it. The right word escapes me at present.)

False humility, maybe?
They gave me a medal for humility and then took it away for wearing it.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 08:36:37 AM by monkeymind »
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2011, 09:05:07 AM »
....after all, proof denies faith, and without faith he is nothing. 

We don't even get a babelfish  ;)

Offline Lance

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2011, 06:24:13 PM »
Good morning to all. Lance is back and is happy to see u all. Please let us debate meaningfully. Ask and I will explain. Cheers!

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2011, 06:34:05 PM »
Good morning to all. Lance is back and is happy to see u all. Please let us debate meaningfully. Ask and I will explain. Cheers!

Maybe you should answer any unanswered questions before a debate challenge. You know, just to show that you are serious.
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline Lance

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2011, 06:48:10 PM »
@ monkey mind Hello there. What is your question?

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2011, 06:50:17 PM »
The OP is the first question. Then others have questions before mine. Please start from the beginning, and go from there.
Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline Lance

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2011, 06:55:35 PM »
OP? What's that?

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2011, 06:57:41 PM »
OP? What's that?
Original Post:
Why does God hate himself?

Truthfinder:the birds adapt and change through million of years in order to survive ,is that science, then cats should evolve also wings to better catch the birds
Mailbag:On a side note, back in college before my conversion, I actually saw a demon sitting next to me in critical thinking class.

Offline jtk73

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2011, 01:50:07 PM »
Quote
The One and Only God - the Almighty God. The God who created everything. The God who commisioned Abraham and Isreal to be his servants not for their sake or for His sake but for the entire world which was accomplished through Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Any questions?
Evidence???

religions, gods, whatever, the one God in the old and new testament is the same. you can't mix hindu or some egyptian god or greek because those are myths. the one i'm talking about has a book he authored called the BIBLE. you can see it for more info. Sumerians didn't brew beer, the egyptians did.
The Hindu and Egyptian gods have the exact same amount of evidence as the god of the bible. Oh and if your god AUTHORED the bible, he is a horrible writer. The bible is vague, nonsensical, convoluted, super BORING and it depicts god as an a bratty, candy-aisle-tantrum throwing child and sociopath.

Quote
I laugh to all who reads it and doesn't get it because God didn't write the BIBLE jus so you can read and understand like any other book. the BIBLE is coded and only through FAITH would you understand it's meaning. Do you really think God will lay out his entire plan for all to understand by jus reading. If that's the case than we can all believe in God without faith. But it is Faith that God is after not knowledge of reading. you can do that in the classrom.
So with eternal damnation (physically burning in a lake of fire or having my soul poked by ethereal pitchforks for eternity) hanging in the balance - this god is not going to just lay out information for me on how to avoid this negative consequence..First I have to ASSUME he/it exists. That makes a lot of sense - if the god is an idiot.

Another quick point - I have noticed how many times you have included the word/notion of love in association with this god. No god or being that truly loves something or someone (lesser being, created being, what-have-you) would EVER condemn that someone to eternal torture or torment ESPECIALLY if it is a created being behaving exactly as it was created to behave.

Quote
Faith is not ridiculous. I think you should be treated with the kid glove. Here's an example about Faith which may help you understand jus a little. You work two weeks before payday right. why do you go to work? Because you know that in two weeks time, you'll get paid although you don't know what will actually happen in those two weeks time. that's the faith i'm talking about.
First of all...
Quote
Because you know
...if you know then you don't need faith.
Secondly, you are talking about two different types of faith. In the case of getting paid - he has past experience to base his faith on. In the case with gods there is no past experience to base faith on. It is just blind hope and wishful thinking.

Offline Lance

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2011, 06:12:23 PM »
@ jk73 I want to answer all your points but i want to know how do you quote like you did? I want to know so i could be clear as to which ones i'm answer to.

Thanks

Offline Backspace

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2011, 01:39:09 PM »
@ jk73 I want to answer all your points but i want to know how do you quote like you did? I want to know so i could be clear as to which ones i'm answer to.

Thanks

Lance - The threads here http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/board,75.0.html explain how to operate the most oft-used features of the forum.

Edit: Also there is a forum in the top block of the home page for "Introductions".  I would suggest you post an introduction of yourself there, so the forum can know your background (age, education, the miracles you've witnessed -- you know, the usual stuff).  When you blast in from the Christian left field, it's difficult to know the context in which to respond to your questions/challenges.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 01:46:28 PM by Backspace »
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Offline jtk73

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2011, 03:24:22 PM »
@ jk73 I want to answer all your points but i want to know how do you quote like you did? I want to know so i could be clear as to which ones i'm answer to.

Thanks
I used internet magic. Just kidding. I Ctrl + clicked (Firefox opens link in new tab) on "Quote" in the top corner of one of your posts that I wanted to comment on, narrowed down your text to the particular point I wanted to address and then typed my response below the [/quote]. Then I copied the text from another of your posts and clicked on the "Insert Quote" button in the toolbar above the reply box and pasted your text between the quote tags then typed my comment.

Here I am doing it again...

Quote
The One and Only God - the Almighty God. The God who created everything. The God who commisioned Abraham and Isreal to be his servants not for their sake or for His sake but for the entire world which was accomplished through Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Any questions?
Actually even god admitted that he was not the one and only god. "Let us create man in our own image..", "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

In this commandment, god basically says "It's okay if you believe in and even worship other gods, just don't revere them more than me."

Offline fishjie

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2011, 09:20:47 PM »
well if i were a super omnipotent being and the beings who worshipped me built shrines and idols in my image, i wouldn't really care one way or the other if hurricanes smashed into them.     itd be all like sim city for me anyway.

Offline eartheconomyspirit

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2011, 02:30:20 AM »
Re: Why does  God hate himself?

If you take the view that god is an analogy for a shared spiritual reality (like a tear of joy is a shared signature to that reality )
then there is no hating going on, other the self loathing of an ego :-)

On the matter of faith....

It's not about faith. In Spirituality there is something to be known and that spiritual potential is something we share, perhaps.

3 Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.

Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father.

But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."


Online Aaron123

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2011, 01:17:50 PM »
*snip*

Well, that was nothing more than word-salad woo.  I know what each individual words mean, but when put together like that, no meaningful idea comes through.  It's trying to sound deep and profound, but it doesn't really say anything.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline eartheconomyspirit

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2011, 07:23:11 PM »
Ok. Do people have egos. I think they do.

What's a tear of joy and its place in the scheme of things.

Are we happy in life if we behave selflessly and do communities and individuals benefit.

I guess my point is, don't through the baby out with the bath water. Whilst mysticism and magic are a false premise and it's highly likely they have been contrived to suit those in power, there are many accurately wise sayings in spiritual and religious traditions that help us mature and become better human beings.

peace :-)
 

 

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2011, 01:43:02 AM »
Whilst mysticism and magic are a false premise and it's highly likely they have been contrived to suit those in power, there are many accurately wise sayings in spiritual and religious traditions that help us mature and become better human beings.

True.  And the vast, vast majority of those sayings are and have been available secularly as well.  Why bother to hang on to a book that contains so much evil and hatred when you can get the same good stuff somewhere else?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline screwtape

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2011, 09:43:14 AM »
seriously, enough with the "tear of joy".  Do you have some kind of OCD where you have to put that in every post you make?  Shit wears thin quickly.
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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2012, 09:08:26 AM »
I'm pretty convinced at this point that Lance is just messing with us, there's no way anyone could actually be this stupid. I'm calling Poe's law here.

But just because nobody addressed this one, thought I'd throw this in.

@ JeffPT - Faith is not ridiculous. I think you should be treated with the kid glove. Here's an example about Faith which may help you understand jus a little. You work two weeks before payday right. why do you go to work? Because you know that in two weeks time, you'll get paid although you don't know what will actually happen in those two weeks time. that's the faith i'm talking about.

If you two have any arguments you want me to answer post it and i will answer it but don't post nonsens like that long one which you've posted which is nothing but guess guess guess. Now, lets debate. ;D

It is not based on faith that you will receive your paycheck. It's based on evidence, ie., I've received my paycheck every two weeks for the past 12 years. Millions of people receive their paychecks every day. Also, if I don't receive my next paycheck, I can talk to my manager, or go to the labor bureau and file a complaint.

Religious faith persists because it is impossible to disprove. This does not mean it is right, it means that the believers are so deluded and insane that their minds litterally cannot comprehend the possibility of being wrong, so they ignore the mountains of evidence to the contrary. The more logical and irrefutable the argument against their beliefs, the deeper they dig in their heals, believing that an attack on their beliefs only shows that their beliefs must be true.

This is why I've said that debating believers is pointless. They rationalize and rationalize, making up more and more fairy tale nonsense to explain why the book of fairy tale nonsense that their ridiculous beliefs are based on doesn't make any sense. We see it everyday here in these forums. Ask any Christian why X quote from the bible is insane, or disagrees with Y quote from the bible, and they will invariably make up some new lore on the spot or simply fall back on the old "we're not meant to understand that" which is the equivalent of taking your ball and going home because the other kids play better than you.

No matter, slowly and surely Jesus and sky daddy God are going the way of Zeus, Odin, Amon Ra, and the other mythical gods. Where they were replaced by other gods because the people of those ages still lacked the answers they invented gods to solve, Jesus is being replaced by science and reality, now that we've come out of the caves and no longer fear fire.

Sadly, there are people who actually do believe the things Lance is saying, but they're typically not competent enough to find a website like this and vomit their bile of malformed thoughts upon their unsuspecting keyboards.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline eartheconomyspirit

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2012, 07:20:20 PM »
I'm pretty convinced at this point that Lance is just messing with us, there's no way anyone could actually be this stupid. I'm calling Poe's law here.

But just because nobody addressed this one, thought I'd throw this in.

@ JeffPT - Faith is not ridiculous. I think you should be treated with the kid glove. Here's an example about Faith which may help you understand jus a little. You work two weeks before payday right. why do you go to work? Because you know that in two weeks time, you'll get paid although you don't know what will actually happen in those two weeks time. that's the faith i'm talking about.

If you two have any arguments you want me to answer post it and i will answer it but don't post nonsens like that long one which you've posted which is nothing but guess guess guess. Now, lets debate. ;D

It is not based on faith that you will receive your paycheck. It's based on evidence, ie., I've received my paycheck every two weeks for the past 12 years. Millions of people receive their paychecks every day. Also, if I don't receive my next paycheck, I can talk to my manager, or go to the labor bureau and file a complaint.

Religious faith persists because it is impossible to disprove. This does not mean it is right, it means that the believers are so deluded and insane that their minds litterally cannot comprehend the possibility of being wrong, so they ignore the mountains of evidence to the contrary. The more logical and irrefutable the argument against their beliefs, the deeper they dig in their heals, believing that an attack on their beliefs only shows that their beliefs must be true.

This is why I've said that debating believers is pointless. They rationalize and rationalize, making up more and more fairy tale nonsense to explain why the book of fairy tale nonsense that their ridiculous beliefs are based on doesn't make any sense. We see it everyday here in these forums. Ask any Christian why X quote from the bible is insane, or disagrees with Y quote from the bible, and they will invariably make up some new lore on the spot or simply fall back on the old "we're not meant to understand that" which is the equivalent of taking your ball and going home because the other kids play better than you.

No matter, slowly and surely Jesus and sky daddy God are going the way of Zeus, Odin, Amon Ra, and the other mythical gods. Where they were replaced by other gods because the people of those ages still lacked the answers they invented gods to solve, Jesus is being replaced by science and reality, now that we've come out of the caves and no longer fear fire.

Sadly, there are people who actually do believe the things Lance is saying, but they're typically not competent enough to find a website like this and vomit their bile of malformed thoughts upon their unsuspecting keyboards.

This is not meant as a question to justify belief, however given that a significant majority of humanity choose belief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups would a better question be what's missing that makes this requirement necessary fro so many.

If science can provide an alternative and demonstrate that alternative. Then belief can become a thing of the past assuming the need is satisfied.


Offline jetson

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2012, 08:17:08 PM »

This is not meant as a question to justify belief, however given that a significant majority of humanity choose belief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups would a better question be what's missing that makes this requirement necessary fro so many.

If science can provide an alternative and demonstrate that alternative. Then belief can become a thing of the past assuming the need is satisfied.

I think that one distinction is in who is outspoken in theism, and who keeps it to themselves.  If there is something that humans need, that science cannot provide, as you suggest, then it seems to me that the need could be filled with all sorts of beliefs about supernatural stuff, gods, after life, etc.  The real question then, is why do some feel so compelled to drag the rest of us into their private needs?

Even people who are high on Jesus don't always try to infect everyone else.  Most of them keep it basically private, and go through their lives without causing any problems.  I would like to see more of that.

Offline eartheconomyspirit

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2012, 10:54:16 PM »

This is not meant as a question to justify belief, however given that a significant majority of humanity choose belief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups would a better question be what's missing that makes this requirement necessary fro so many.

If science can provide an alternative and demonstrate that alternative. Then belief can become a thing of the past assuming the need is satisfied.

I think that one distinction is in who is outspoken in theism, and who keeps it to themselves.  If there is something that humans need, that science cannot provide, as you suggest, then it seems to me that the need could be filled with all sorts of beliefs about supernatural stuff, gods, after life, etc.  The real question then, is why do some feel so compelled to drag the rest of us into their private needs?

Even people who are high on Jesus don't always try to infect everyone else.  Most of them keep it basically private, and go through their lives without causing any problems.  I would like to see more of that.

It's not a question of "if" when you talk about such a massive majority. The real question is why doe so many feel compelled to believe. The other question is avoidance and anti free expression, perhaps.:-)
 

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2012, 11:23:41 PM »
It's not a question of "if" when you talk about such a massive majority. The real question is why doe so many feel compelled to believe. The other question is avoidance and anti free expression, perhaps.:-)

I can think of many reasons, none of which require god to be real.  It is the same with belief in UFO's, Bigfoot, homeopathy, psychic readings, dowsing, Tarot Cards, Ouija boards, etc, etc, etc.  None of those have to be real in order to understand why they are so widely accepted by large groups of people. 

Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline jetson

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2012, 11:47:41 PM »

It's not a question of "if" when you talk about such a massive majority. The real question is why doe so many feel compelled to believe. The other question is avoidance and anti free expression, perhaps.:-)

To me, it doesn't matter why they feel compelled.  What matters is how they treat those who either don;t believe, or believe something different.  I don't like mass delusions, but we have them.  So we have to find ways to allow people to believe what they want, without harming or infringing on the rights of others.  It really is that simple.

And sadly, some of the most deluded, are the absolute worst when it comes to leaving everyone else alone.  In fact, they go out of their way to make everyone else suffer.

Offline Aspie

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Re: Why does God hate himself?
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2012, 04:22:43 AM »
This is not meant as a question to justify belief, however given that a significant majority of humanity choose belief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups would a better question be what's missing that makes this requirement necessary fro so many.

If science can provide an alternative and demonstrate that alternative. Then belief can become a thing of the past assuming the need is satisfied.

Simple - what's missing is wishful thinking. Belief is so common because of anthropocentric conceit, the ease of raising people's hopes, the desire for objective justice, the difficulty of accepting moral ambiguity, the fears of mortality, and that it's useful tool for spreading ideologies, making money, and maintaining political power.

All around, religions and "spirituality" assure their believers of the same things - that they are special snowflakes in the universe with objective purpose, that their actions have cosmic consequences, that everything can be safely divided into a dichotomy of good vs. evil, and that humans are so objectively important that they are worthy of eternal preservation, whether it be through an afterlife or reincarnation. In other words, they are security blankets designed to "deal with" the age-old major philosophical issues of the human race: death, ethics, and the meaning of life. The main reason especially that gods are so common in religions is because they are the ultimate deus ex machinas - genies in lamps designed to grant the believers' deepest desires not only through promising them that their lives are of the utmost importance, that good will always be rewarded and that bad will always be punished, and that blessings will be bestowed upon their families (and in many cases curses doled out upon their enemies), but that they can conveniently remain completely unfalsifiable because the believers can simply appeal to their various superpowers to explain away their apparent nonexistence. Of course, us atheists point out that there is nothing to suggest that any of these philosophical problems are being addressed at all - merely hand-waved away by the various doctrines and apologetics.

On top of that people promoting any kind of myth will always have the advantage because of the cost effectiveness and the psychological appeal. It's easy and cheap to make an assertion about reality, but it takes considerably greater time and effort to thoroughly debunk it. Plus the whole functional purpose of a myth is to raises people's hopes, while the unfortunate consequence to debunking is that it takes those hopes and dashes them upon the rocks.

In the end, the only "weakness" of science versus religion is that it can't promise the sun and the moon without legitimate data to support it. People carry religious/spiritual belief not because they're required to, but because they choose to emotionally invest in ideals.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 04:26:39 AM by Aspie »