thanks [#2625]

[jaimehlers]

good breakdown jaime still dont agree though

Maybe you should actually take the time to read what I'm saying, then.  I mean, you posted less than two minutes after I did.

how about disprooving my view of the true gospel

Maybe you should try proving your view of the "true gospel" first.  And while you're at it, you can actually open your mind to the probability that you don't actually understand the "real true gospel".

[rob]

ok emily thats nice

back to vekyl why do you care about rejecting the grace of god/ the true gospel anyway? why do you sternly disagree with it?

i was referring to vekyl, jaime

[jaimehlers]

It's "velkyn".  Also, you did not make that clear.  Mine is the only name you mentioned.  I am not a mind reader, to be able to tell who you're talking to if you don't write it in your post.

[Emily]

ok emily thats nice

Cool. What's not nice is people who take away their self worth but worshiping a god who thinks they are unworthy of spending eternity with him simply because they don't suck him off, pay him complements and give him money. You even show in your message that you have little-to-no self-respect.

You need to stick up for yourself.

[Historicity]

the only way to get away from that is to denounce christ the only unforgivable sin. read ephesians 2:8
... i dont think you want to get in a biblical debate with me.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:  it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

No reference to unforgiveable sin there. 

Check your references before smarting off.

[rob]

i was just trying to show his grace is not by anything you could ever do besides believe in him .

here it is:

Matthew 12:31



 31-32"There's nothing done or said that can't be forgiven. But if you deliberately persist in your slanders against God's Spirit, you are repudiating the very One who forgives. If you reject the Son of Man out of some misunderstanding, the Holy Spirit can forgive you, but when you reject the Holy Spirit, you're sawing off the branch on which you're sitting, severing by your own perversity all connection with the One who forgives.

[Tinyal]

i was just trying to show his grace is not by anything you could ever do besides believe in him .

here it is:

Matthew 12:31



 31-32"There's nothing done or said that can't be forgiven. But if you deliberately persist in your slanders against God's Spirit, you are repudiating the very One who forgives. If you reject the Son of Man out of some misunderstanding, the Holy Spirit can forgive you, but when you reject the Holy Spirit, you're sawing off the branch on which you're sitting, severing by your own perversity all connection with the One who forgives.

Oh goodie!! Another chance to curse out the Holy Spirit!!  I love these...ok how is this?


"FK you holy spook!! Go eat some navel lint then set yourself on fire!!!  Mix yourself with some methane then take up crack smoking with a blowtorch!!"

That work for ya?

[rob]

no that wouldnt work, you have to deny his existence after he has fully revelated himself to you. this would be the only thing outside of the total rejection of salvation

[rob]

sort of like how you believe you know without a doubt that evolution is the truth and then you turned your back on it anyway to become a christian muslim whatever.

that would be like the unforgivable sin of evolution.

[Gnu Ordure]

you have to deny his existence after he has fully revelated himself to you.

Revelated. I like that. Probably the truest word Rob has spoken so far.

[rob]

here is what hebrews 4 thru 6 says

 4-6Once people have seen the light, gotten a taste of heaven and been part of the work of the Holy Spirit, once they've personally experienced the sheer goodness of God's Word and the powers breaking in on us—if then they turn their backs on it, washing their hands of the whole thing, well, they can't start over as if nothing happened. That's impossible. Why, they've re-crucified Jesus!

here it is again

[curiousgirl]

i mean your personal existence as far as sin increasing.


and i am  concerned about the here and now.

im not trying to convert you by the way.

i would describe christianity as a relationship rather than a religion.

it changed me i robbed, i stole, sexually was immoral, smoked blunts, toted weight, licked shots, and would baby make, get bent and pay rent.

Hi, Rob. I have to point out that you are using multiple cliches with the above statements. Do you realize that you sound brainwashed? You sound like someone who cannot control his own behavior like an adult, so he turns to a placebo to get results.

[rob]

i am most definitely brainwashed by the word of God. that is exactly how i would describe it.

[Mr. Blackwell]

toted weight, licked shots, and would baby make, get bent and pay rent.

I don't know what any of this means.

[rob]

pushed  drugs, involved in gunplay where i actually was shot in thr pelvis, had kids out of wedlock, get drunk and doped up, and just pay my rent to wherever i was staying at the time i never had a socalled home..

[curiousgirl]

i am most definitely brainwashed by the word of God. that is exactly how i would describe it.

OK, and I am sure you are proud of it, too. Rob, I used to go around saying the same type of thing. I used to say, "I am a Jesus freak, and proud of it." Then I grew up and realized that in order to maintain a belief in Jesus, you have to suspend rational thought from your daily routine. How does it make sense that the world population is the ultimate result of only two people mating? There is not enough of a gene pool with two people. How about the Flood? Do you realize that there is not enough water for that to occur on our planet? How about the Exodus? Is it logical that a loving God would kill the firstborn (even children) of every Egyptian because of one hard-hearted Pharoah? And don't forget Jesus' supposed resurrection.

It takes courage and good sense to ask those questions. I recommend you try it sometime.

[rob]

ive already had the discussion that you dont have any absolute truth to back up anything you just said besides that God allowed all the firstborn to be killed that will never happen again because their has been a payment for all sin past present and future.

luke 2:14 says
At once the angel was joined by a huge angelic choir singing God's praises:

   "Glory to God in the heavenly heights,
   Peace to all men and women on earth who please him."

so this meant peace to all mankind, he does not hold sin against us anymore so he would never do that again, it would not be just of him to do so.

[Historicity]

One Toke Over The Line
Brewer & Shipley

One toke over the line, Sweet Jesus
One toke over the line.
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line.

Waiting for the train that takes me home, Sweet Mary
Hoping that the train is on time.
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line.

Whoooo do you love? I hope it's me.
I've been a changing, as you can plainly see.
I felt the joy and I learned about the pain that my momma said.
If I should choose to make a part of me, surely strike me dead.

Now I'm one toke over the line, Sweet Jesus
One toke over the line
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line

I'm waiting for the train that goes home, Sweet Mary
Hoping that the train is on time.
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line.

I been away a country mile.
Now I'm returning, showing off a smile.
I met all the girls and loved myself a few.
Ended by surprise like everything else I've been through.
It opened up my eyes and now I'm..

One toke over the line, Sweet Jesus
One toke over the line.
Sitting downtown in a railway station
One toke over the line

[curiousgirl]

ive already had the discussion that you dont have any absolute truth to back up anything you just said besides that God allowed all the firstborn to be killed that will never happen again because their has been a payment for all sin past present and future.

luke 2:14 says
At once the angel was joined by a huge angelic choir singing God's praises:

   "Glory to God in the heavenly heights,
   Peace to all men and women on earth who please him."

so this meant peace to all mankind he does not hold sin against us anymore so he would never do that again, it would not be just of him to do so.

Rob, humans are subjective creatures. Science and logic are the best tools that we have for understanding objective reality.

Why did God have to kill those children in the first place? Do you see how you are trying to justify illogical behavior? If God is truly omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, etc then he could have used his power to prevent sin to begin with. Yet instead, he supposedly kills innocent children, such as the firstborn child of David and Bathsheba.

[rob]

we walked away from god not the other way around he is just

romans 9:20 says

 19 So one of you will ask me, “If God controls what we do, why does he blame us for our sins?” 20 Don’t ask that. You are only human and have no right to question God. A clay jar does not question the one who made it. It does not say, “Why did you make me like this?” 21 The one who makes the jar can make anything he wants. He uses the same clay to make different things. He might make one thing for special purposes and another for daily use.

God can not go against his own word so in that respect he is not omnipotent. he would be unjust if he did that
psalm 138:2
  I will worship toward Your holy temple and praise Your name for Your loving-kindness and for Your truth and faithfulness; for You have exalted above all else Your name and Your word and You have magnified Your word above all Your name!

david and bathsheba were still under the curse so he was just in doing so

[Mr. Blackwell]

we walked away from god not the other way around he is just

Just what? He is just amazing? He just cruel? He just what?

[rob]

justifiable or justified

[rob]

hey im hitting the sack if you wanna talk tomorrow we can good night

[JeffPT]

we walked away from god not the other way around he is just

Yes, we know what the special book claims.  But its just words on paper; and those words require analysis in a similar way that you would analyze any other claim in any other book you ever came across, does it not?  Can you present any real world evidence that God is real and that he is a just God?  And what would the evidence (if you found it) look like that would convince you that God might not be a just God? 

romans 9:20 says

 19 So one of you will ask me, “If God controls what we do, why does he blame us for our sins?” 20 Don’t ask that. You are only human and have no right to question God. A clay jar does not question the one who made it. It does not say, “Why did you make me like this?” 21 The one who makes the jar can make anything he wants. He uses the same clay to make different things. He might make one thing for special purposes and another for daily use.

This has always bothered me.  God supposedly gave me the ability to question things, and then tells me not to question things when it comes to the most important subjects?  The reason a clay jar doesn't question the one who makes it is because a clay jar is not a sentient being with feelings, wants, desires and a basic right to life.  We don't feel sorry for the clay jar for the same reason we don't feel sorry for rocks.  They aren't alive.  But if you made a clay jar that suddenly became sentient, it would have every right to ask why it was made in such a way, and not answering it would just make you look like an ass hole. 

I'm just glad none of the god stuff is real.  I'd hate to think the most powerful being, inside or outside of the universe, is just a dick. 

God can not go against his own word so in that respect he is not omnipotent. he would be unjust if he did that

You can't call God omnipotent in some ways but not others.  That would not make any sense.  It would be like saying you scored 100% on a test but got 3 of the answers wrong.  You can't get 3 wrong and score 100%.  It's illogical.  It's a square circle.  A married bachelor.  The very definition of the omnipotence means He can do anything... literally anything.   The first time you say "He can do anything, 'except'..." then God falls out of the realm of omnipotence.  He might be powerful, but not omnipotent.

BTW, a note to all Christians... The claim of a non-omnipotent god would be easier to defend in just about every single way than one that is considered omnipotent.  You should all abandon the notion that God is capable of doing anything.  It's a major loss for your side. 

[Astreja]

everybody please listen. believe what you want. that shall be the ultimate truth for you. i dont condemn you. but know that you are a being of faith and love. thats the ultimate truth for us all.
can we agree on that?

No, we most certainly cannot agree on that.  For one thing, not all people are loving and not all people have faith.  Secondly, different individuals can have very different ideas of what "faith" and "love" actually mean.

The word 'faith' in particular has several meanings that range from 'blind belief in things for which there is absolutely no empirical evidence' to 'confidence that something which has happened repeatedly before will happen again.'  If you claim that the two are the same, you have committed the logical fallacy of equivocation -- Comparing apples to oranges.  No; more like comparing apples to transistors or jackhammers.  Using the same word for two radically different things does not make them into the same thing.

[caveat_imperator]

Does rob suffer from fundie Tourette's?

[Emily]

sort of like how you believe you know without a doubt that evolution is the truth and then you turned your back on it anyway to become a christian muslim whatever.

that would be like the unforgivable sin of evolution.

Lay off the evolution talk, ok. Every time you mention it you make yourself sound like a complete idiot, so do yourself a favor and just stop.

pushed  drugs, involved in gunplay where i actually was shot in thr pelvis, had kids out of wedlock, get drunk and doped up, and just pay my rent to wherever i was staying at the time i never had a socalled home..

boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. Oh, I am so glad god came into rob's live to save him from being in gangs. Thank you jebus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am most definitely brainwashed by the word of God. that is exactly how i would describe it.

Not something worth bragging about. You're brainwashed. You don't know how to think for yourself. Grow up.

[One Above All]

boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river. Oh, I am so glad god came into rob's live to save him from being in gangs. Thank you jebus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too bad jebus didn't come for the ~99% of theists in USA prisons... Well, sucks for them, right? It's all about rob! Screw the other ~7 billion humans on this planet!

[Historicity]

Does rob suffer from fundie Tourette's?

The impression Rob gives to me is that he sounds brain damaged (the drugs) or it could be a persistent habit of speaking in argot combined with his commitment to irrationalism.

A couple people here have admitted they were in the drug scene but they left it and don't talk like it anymore.