Author Topic: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention  (Read 6712 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline joebbowers

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1074
  • Darwins +91/-47
  • Gender: Male
    • My Photography
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« on: November 24, 2011, 03:33:57 AM »
Let's not sugar coat it, let's not pander or apologize to the religious. God doesn't exist. Anyone who believes in God is insane. We also know that religion is harmful to both the individual believer and society at large in many ways.

The problem is that religion is a socially acceptable form of insanity. This needs to change. If you have an imaginary friend who influences your day to day activities, you should be in an asylum.

The best cure for the disease of religion is prevention. Right now the infection festers and grows because we have allowed a fertile field for it to take root. We can't allow this to continue. We must let them know that we will tolerate their insanity no longer. We can not simply "respect their beliefs" when they do not respect ours, and their beliefs cause untold death and destruction, block life-saving medical and scientific research, and persecute people based on race, gender, or sexual orientation.

Websites like godisimaginary.com and whywontgodhealamputees.com are a giant step in the right direction but more must be done. I believe that a large part of our effort is being wasted trying to help the religious see the ridiculousness of their beliefs. It's been proven that a part of their brain litterally shuts down when faced with facts that disprove their religious beliefs. Despite overwhelming proof to the contrary, they will not change their minds, they still believe. They celebrate and glorify stupidity, which they call "faith".

To finally eradicate the plague of religion, the first step is for atheists to come out of the closet, so to speak. Don't be afraid what your friends, family, or co-workers may think. Remember, you are not alone.

The second step is to create an inhospitable environment for religion. Reject it anywhere you see it. Tell your children not to say "under God" in the pledge of allegiance, point out the ridiculousness of the bible, do not allow people to pray for you or bless you, mock, shame, and embarass their beliefs because frankly we can't let people believe their insanity is acceptable.

Print out the more compelling arguements from atheist websites and hand them out wherever you see Christians handing out their propaganda. Make no mistake, they are out to recruit young children because they know only a child is gullible enough to swallow their load of crap. They give out Christian coloring books to little kids. We can't allow this to happen anymore.

If the next generation sees that it's ok to be an atheist despite what their parents have taught them, that society will accept them and that a large number of successful, popular adults are atheists, we can begin cleansing the world of religion.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11190
  • Darwins +294/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2011, 03:49:35 AM »
Let's not sugar coat it, let's not pander or apologize to the religious. God doesn't exist.

True.

Anyone who believes in God is insane.

Not insane, irrational. Although all insane people are irrational, the opposite is not true.

We also know that religion is harmful to both the individual believer and society at large in many ways.

Sometimes, yes. But I know believers who are neither harmful nor harmed by religion.

The problem is that religion is a socially acceptable form of insanity. This needs to change. If you have an imaginary friend who influences your day to day activities, you should be in an asylum.

You should receive treatment, not be sent to an asylum right away. Asylums are a "last resort" thing.

The best cure for the disease of religion is prevention. Right now the infection festers and grows because we have allowed a fertile field for it to take root. We can't allow this to continue. We must let them know that we will tolerate their insanity no longer. We can not simply "respect their beliefs" when they do not respect ours, and their beliefs cause untold death and destruction, block life-saving medical and scientific research, and persecute people based on race, gender, or sexual orientation.

I do not respect their beliefs; I respect their free will, as long as it doesn't cause harm to others. I believe this to be the only fair course of action/thought.

Websites like godisimaginary.com and whywontgodhealamputees.com are a giant step in the right direction but more must be done. I believe that a large part of our effort is being wasted trying to help the religious see the ridiculousness of their beliefs. It's been proven that a part of their brain litterally shuts down when faced with facts that disprove their religious beliefs. Despite overwhelming proof to the contrary, they will not change their minds, they still believe. They celebrate and glorify stupidity, which they call "faith".

Irrelevant unless it harms other people.

To finally eradicate the plague of religion, the first step is for atheists to come out of the closet, so to speak. Don't be afraid what your friends, family, or co-workers may think. Remember, you are not alone.

Many people cannot do this. They (literally) fear for their lives and place their lives above (almost) everything else.

The second step is to create an inhospitable environment for religion. Reject it anywhere you see it. Tell your children not to say "under God" in the pledge of allegiance, point out the ridiculousness of the bible, do not allow people to pray for you or bless you, mock, shame, and embarass their beliefs because frankly we can't let people believe their insanity is acceptable.

Indoctrination is not acceptable, regardless of the intention. Children should be allowed to make up their own minds about stuff like this; not have their parents tell them what to do, how to do it and why they think they should do it.

Print out the more compelling arguements from atheist websites and hand them out wherever you see Christians handing out their propaganda. Make no mistake, they are out to recruit young children because they know only a child is gullible enough to swallow their load of crap. They give out Christian coloring books to little kids. We can't allow this to happen anymore.

Coloring books are just coloring books. They do not influence children as much as you think. You're right about the rest, though.

If the next generation sees that it's ok to be an atheist despite what their parents have taught them, that society will accept them and that a large number of successful, popular adults are atheists, we can begin cleansing the world of religion.

The problem is that a lot of societies do not accept atheists. Personally, I will not lie to "closeted" atheists and say that society will accept them.

EDIT: Also, debate is not pointless. A lot of theists have deconverted from debate.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 03:52:16 AM by Lucifer »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline joebbowers

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1074
  • Darwins +91/-47
  • Gender: Male
    • My Photography
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2011, 04:18:11 AM »
Quote
I know believers who are neither harmful nor harmed by religion.

Do you know how they vote on gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, birth control or other issues in which many religious people let their imaginary friend make up their minds for them?

Did they vote for a president who starts wars he believes God instructed him to start, because their religious beliefs align with his?

Please stop apologizing for them.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11190
  • Darwins +294/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2011, 04:22:57 AM »
Do you know how they vote on gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, birth control or other issues in which many religious people let their imaginary friend make up their minds for them?

How they vote (or would vote; AFAIK all those things are legal in my country):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

Did they vote for a president who starts wars he believes God instructed him to start, because their religious beliefs align with his?

Hell no. They're smart; they know you can't judge someone based on their beliefs.

Please stop apologizing for them.

What do you mean?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline joebbowers

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1074
  • Darwins +91/-47
  • Gender: Male
    • My Photography
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2011, 04:51:34 AM »
I think you just enjoy being arguementative.

What religion are these friends of yours who vote yes on gay marriage, yes on abortion rights, yes on stem cell research, and yes on birth control? Certainly not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. If they are, they don't follow the doctrines of their religious teachings, which means they don't truly believe them.

Quote
They're smart; they know you can't judge someone based on their beliefs.

That's pure apologist talk. Of course we judge people based on their beliefs. If I believed it was ok to cheat on one's spouse, or if I believed black people were inferior to white people, you wouldn't judge me for those beliefs? What if I believed homosexuals should die because God demands it, you wouldn't judge me for that belief?
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11190
  • Darwins +294/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2011, 04:58:27 AM »
I think you just enjoy being argumentative.

I think this part of your post is pointless.

What religion are these friends of yours who vote yes on gay marriage, yes on abortion rights, yes on stem cell research, and yes on birth control? Certainly not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. If they are, they don't follow the doctrines of their religious teachings, which means they don't truly believe them.

Congrats, you are now using the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. Yes, they cherry pick, just like every other member of every single religion on Earth. Does that mean that they don't believe in what they cherry picked? No.

That's pure apologist talk. Of course we judge people based on their beliefs.

Strawman. I didn't say we didn't, I said we couldn't (in the sense that we shouldn't).

If I believed it was ok to cheat on one's spouse, or if I believed black people were inferior to white people, you wouldn't judge me for those beliefs? What if I believed homosexuals should die because God demands it, you wouldn't judge me for that belief?

No, I would not judge you for those beliefs. For example, I believe that abortion is wrong if the woman had access to birth control and wasn't raped. However, I would still vote "Yes" on abortions, because I also believe in free will.

I judge based on actions, not beliefs.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 05:02:44 AM by Lucifer »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7312
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2011, 08:48:16 AM »
Davedave, is that you?  Hee hee...just kidding.

Welcome joeb! 

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2011, 10:21:55 AM »
...What religion are these friends of yours who vote yes on gay marriage, yes on abortion rights, yes on stem cell research, and yes on birth control? Certainly not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. If they are, they don't follow the doctrines of their religious teachings, which means they don't truly believe them....

Bull. There are liberal christians everywhere, especially out east where I currently live. To them the bible is mere allegory. Stories. They like the warm and fuzzy message of love, and if they're picking and choosing what to believe, so do most people. I know christians who are on the forefront of pro-choice movements, who give out birth control to needy young women for free, who are gay themselves ... the list goes on.

We do ourselves no favors if we assume that all christians are right-wing fundamentalists. To do so is to invite scorn from the very people who today, right this very moment, support us.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7312
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2011, 10:29:55 AM »
Traveler,

I have some very liberal Christian friends.  But their woo factor still gets to me, and I can't help feeling very strongly that they are no better than the hard core literalists.  True that they favor equal rights, and support similar social issues as atheists, but they ultimately keep the literalists and fundies on a strong bedrock because of their SPAG.

I do agree that they are in a large sense identical to any other Christian, but it does seem like some serious cognitive dissonance going on.  Theres just way too much SPAG involved in religion, especially in the U.S.

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2011, 10:41:50 AM »
...But their woo factor still gets to me...

lol, I hear that. But I have to say, my pagan friends have a FAR higher woo factor than my christian friends. Ghosts, haunted houses, magic spells ... it's hard to keep a straight face sometimes.

Quote
...and I can't help feeling very strongly that they are no better than the hard core literalists....

I think the reason I have trouble with taking it this far is that I believe actions are more important than beliefs in terms of what society should accept. You can believe in aliens, you can believe in magic, you can believe my house is haunted, you can believe in god. As long as you keep it to yourself. The liberals find religion a private matter. The literalists don't. And therein lies the difference for me.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7312
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2011, 11:00:24 AM »
LOL - I hear you on the Pagan stuff!

And yes, I have to agree that actions are far more damaging, or at least can be depending on what those actions are.  I privately tolerate the woo, because I value my friendships, and I know that I will be seen as unnecessarily antagonistic towards a seemingly benign position from some.  I know there are atheists who would cringe at my approach, but we each have to find our way through this stuff as individuals, as well s collectively, if we desire.

I have been giving a lot of private thought to how I might truly "come out" to some of my more liberal believer friends.  They know I'm "not religious", but they don't know what I truly think of their delusions of higher powers, prayer, and gods.  Perhaps I am failing to really come out in some ways, but I'm trying.  The balance is not as simple as words on a forum.


Offline Mr. Blackwell

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2700
  • Darwins +78/-23
  • Gender: Male
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2011, 02:15:26 PM »
Let's not sugar coat it, let's not pander or apologize to the religious. God doesn't exist. Anyone who believes in God is insane. We also know that religion is harmful to both the individual believer and society at large in many ways.

The problem is that religion is a socially acceptable form of insanity. This needs to change. If you have an imaginary friend who influences your day to day activities, you should be in an asylum.

The best cure for the disease of religion is prevention. Right now the infection festers and grows because we have allowed a fertile field for it to take root. We can't allow this to continue. We must let them know that we will tolerate their insanity no longer. We can not simply "respect their beliefs" when they do not respect ours, and their beliefs cause untold death and destruction, block life-saving medical and scientific research, and persecute people based on race, gender, or sexual orientation.

Websites like godisimaginary.com and whywontgodhealamputees.com are a giant step in the right direction but more must be done. I believe that a large part of our effort is being wasted trying to help the religious see the ridiculousness of their beliefs. It's been proven that a part of their brain litterally shuts down when faced with facts that disprove their religious beliefs. Despite overwhelming proof to the contrary, they will not change their minds, they still believe. They celebrate and glorify stupidity, which they call "faith".

To finally eradicate the plague of religion, the first step is for atheists to come out of the closet, so to speak. Don't be afraid what your friends, family, or co-workers may think. Remember, you are not alone.

The second step is to create an inhospitable environment for religion. Reject it anywhere you see it. Tell your children not to say "under God" in the pledge of allegiance, point out the ridiculousness of the bible, do not allow people to pray for you or bless you, mock, shame, and embarass their beliefs because frankly we can't let people believe their insanity is acceptable.

Print out the more compelling arguements from atheist websites and hand them out wherever you see Christians handing out their propaganda. Make no mistake, they are out to recruit young children because they know only a child is gullible enough to swallow their load of crap. They give out Christian coloring books to little kids. We can't allow this to happen anymore.

If the next generation sees that it's ok to be an atheist despite what their parents have taught them, that society will accept them and that a large number of successful, popular adults are atheists, we can begin cleansing the world of religion.

Excellent points all, Joe! They are disgusting worms! I feel dirty and contaminated by simply breathing the same air these vile hate filed bigots breath. We need to set aside special areas to quarantine these lunatics.

We should create a program to educate the children before their young minds can be infected by the insanity of their religious parents. We already have the public school system where God is not allowed but maybe we could be more proactive in actually teaching children at a young age just how dangerous religion is. Also we should have the authority to remove children from their homes if the parents are identified as dangerous fundamental Christians.

It would be helpful if atheists did "come out" so it would be easier to tell the good guys from the bad but perhaps since it is still dangerous for some of them to do so we could require the religious to somehow openly identify themselves? I'm just brain storming here. What do you think would be the easiest way to identify who is religious or not?

All I'm saying is that I'm on board with your plan to cleans the world of people who do not share our rational beliefs. If there is anything I can do to help just let me know.

Best regards,

Baldur Schirach

I show affection for my pets by holding them against me and whispering, "I love you" repeatedly as they struggle to break free.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7312
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2011, 03:23:03 PM »
Jayb...I think you copletely missed the point.  And then you added your own take on what you think was meant.  I can't speak for the OP, but what you are outlining and agreeing to does not reflect the intent of the message.

Offline Historicity

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2350
  • Darwins +80/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • (Rama, avatar of Vishnu)
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2011, 03:24:04 PM »
[quote author=joebbowers link=topic=20721.msg458561#msg458561 date=1322126291
...gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, birth control or other issues in which many religious people let their imaginary friend make up their minds for them?
[/quote]

You have never heard of:

Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League

Also check on:

PLAGAL, Pro-Life Gays and Lesbians.

Offline Emergence

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 832
  • Darwins +5/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • do i look impressed?
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2011, 04:24:53 PM »
Jayb...I think you copletely missed the point.  And then you added your own take on what you think was meant.  I can't speak for the OP, but what you are outlining and agreeing to does not reflect the intent of the message.
(my bold)


Best regards,

Baldur Schirach


(my bold again)

Jetson idk whether you realized that: Baldur von SchirachWiki

Jayb's post is a rather well done example of Godwin's Law. Probably not even totally undeserved, i'd think.  :police:
Change alone is eternal, perpetual, immortal.
Arthur Schopenhauer

EurekAlert - Science News / Public Library of Science / Scholarpedia

Offline Gnu Ordure

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3832
  • Darwins +109/-9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2011, 04:39:30 PM »
Emergence, I agree with Jetson.

JayB was accusing Joe of being a Nazi, which seems unwarranted.

Equally unwarranted seems the -1 which Historicity gave Joe on the OP: Non sequiturs, turning atheism into a religion. I can't see where Joe said anything like that.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 04:43:44 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline Emergence

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 832
  • Darwins +5/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • do i look impressed?
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2011, 04:57:43 PM »
Yeah, well, different people, different backgrounds, different views i guess. I can see Historicity's point at least and agree with that. As we say "Der Ton macht die Musik!" *shrug*
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 05:12:56 PM by Emergence »
Change alone is eternal, perpetual, immortal.
Arthur Schopenhauer

EurekAlert - Science News / Public Library of Science / Scholarpedia

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7312
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2011, 05:05:13 PM »
Emergence,

Thanks for pointing that out.  I did not understand that signature, actually.

I do understand that Joe is espousing a message that not all atheists would want to follow, or even agree with.  But I did not think it was at the level of the response from that letter.  I did not recognize that level of vitriol from the OP personally.  I know I have a bias though, so if someone wants to break it down, maybe I missed something?

I also recognize that my online persona is more aggressive than the real me.  So I could be considered somewhat hypocritical if I support the message, but then refuse to do it in real life...so I have some mixed feelings overall.

It's like I want to get behind the idea of being more aggressive in keeping religion out of the lives of those who are not seeking it specifically, but I don't know exactly how.  And ideas like these hit that nerve, and motivate me.  In real life though, am I willing to follow through?  I'm not sure if I would lead, but I might follow.

However, no matter what, I would never harm anyone, or try to restrict them from their equal rights as humans.  I would look for a way to balance the rights...not sure how though!

Jet

Offline Gnu Ordure

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3832
  • Darwins +109/-9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2011, 05:30:17 PM »
Emergence,
Quote
Yeah, well, different people, different backgrounds, different views i guess. <snip> As we say "Der Ton macht die Musik!" *shrug*

Given that it is difficult to judge tone on forums, and given that Joe is a new member whose tone we are not familiar with, maybe it would be a good idea to ask him exactly what he meant before accusing him of wanting to exterminate theists in an atheist fascist holocaust?

And I bet you 20 dollars he doesn't.  :)

Quote
I can see Historicity's point at least and agree with that.
Then please point out the relevant part of Joe's post. Where does he mention, or even imply, turning atheism into a religion?

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12536
  • Darwins +300/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2011, 06:48:13 PM »
I think you just enjoy being arguementative.

I think he's holding himself to a high standard of intellectual honesty.  That's often mistaken for being argumentative by those who don't.

What religion are these friends of yours who vote yes on gay marriage, yes on abortion rights, yes on stem cell research, and yes on birth control? Certainly not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. If they are, they don't follow the doctrines of their religious teachings, which means they don't truly believe them.

Religious beliefs arise primarily from the conditioned values of the believer, not from the book their faith is supposedly based around.  And there is no law of the universe stating that a holy book needs to be the ultimate foundation of one's religious beliefs in the first place.

As for the last part, the part about them not truly believing - do you have evidence to back up this definite assertion about the thoughts of others?  I see no reason why it would be true, but perhaps you could educate me on that point.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11190
  • Darwins +294/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2011, 06:52:55 PM »
Nevermind.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 06:55:37 PM by Lucifer »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline joebbowers

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1074
  • Darwins +91/-47
  • Gender: Male
    • My Photography
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2011, 09:19:35 PM »
Historocity said:

Quote
You have never heard of:

Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League

Atheists may make the decision to become pro-life. With Christians, the decision is made for them.

Making your own decisions = good. Letting a book written by insane people make your decisions for you = bad.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12536
  • Darwins +300/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2011, 09:41:04 PM »
Where is abortion forbidden in the bible?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline joebbowers

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1074
  • Darwins +91/-47
  • Gender: Male
    • My Photography
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2011, 09:50:17 PM »
Quote
Where is abortion forbidden in the bible?

It's not, but Christians think it is. They're told by their preachers and parents that it is, so they believe it. They don't bother to actually read the bible to find out, otherwise they'd all be atheists after reading it.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Emily

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5679
  • Darwins +51/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2011, 09:54:30 PM »
Thou shalt not kill.

Christians have a nasty habit of grouping abortion into the category of murdering. Just drive past an abortion clinic that has a nutjob protesting outside. Chances are you'll see a sign with a picture of a fetus saying...

"please don't murder me"

or something along that line.

"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2011, 10:02:39 PM »
Quote
Where is abortion forbidden in the bible?

It's not, but Christians think it is. They're told by their preachers and parents that it is, so they believe it. They don't bother to actually read the bible to find out, otherwise they'd all be atheists after reading it.

Nonsense. Fundamentalist christians think it is. We really need to stop lumping all christians together in one basket. It lessens our credibility. I know tons of liberal, pro-choice, pro-birth-control, gay-friendly, etc., christians.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12536
  • Darwins +300/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2011, 10:15:35 PM »
Quote
Where is abortion forbidden in the bible?

It's not, but Christians think it is. They're told by their preachers and parents that it is, so they believe it. They don't bother to actually read the bible to find out, otherwise they'd all be atheists after reading it.

So you agree that the anti-abortion religious position is one that is derived from a source other than the Bible.

Why, then, did you cite it as something they'd have to go against the Bible in order to abandon?  You contradict yourself.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12536
  • Darwins +300/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2011, 10:16:45 PM »
Nonsense. Fundamentalist christians think it is. We really need to stop lumping all christians together in one basket. It lessens our credibility. I know tons of liberal, pro-choice, pro-birth-control, gay-friendly, etc., christians.

And just as the anti-choice position is fostered by sources other than the Bible, so is the pro-choice fostered by sources other than the Bible.  The two are equivalent on that point.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline joebbowers

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1074
  • Darwins +91/-47
  • Gender: Male
    • My Photography
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Religious debate is pointless, the best cure is prevention
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2011, 10:29:27 PM »
Quote
So you agree that the anti-abortion religious position is one that is derived from a source other than the Bible.
Why, then, did you cite it as something they'd have to go against the Bible in order to abandon?  You contradict yourself.

Don't put words in my mouth, and don't tell me I agree with you just to make your point. I said it isn't written in the bible but they believe it is. They believe the bible is the source of it, therefore they would have to go against what they believe their holy book says in order to be pro-choice.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT