Author Topic: Fiery Furnace bible story. Why do theists never question "WHY" Nebuchadnezzar  (Read 1303 times)

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Offline Brakeman

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Why do theists never question "WHY" Nebuchadnezzar had a huge furnace large enough for four men to walk around in. There were no large furnaces like this at any time in ancient history, since they didn't have the technology to make a large one work.  I'd love for some re-creationist theist to try this today. It would be so funny.

Daniel 3:

22Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flames of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

 23And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

 24Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.

 25He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

 26Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.

 27And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.
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Offline jynnan tonnix

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Off topic, but hearing the title of this story always makes me think of one mass we attended a number of years back, when we were stationed in Hawaii. It was shortly before we all gave up going to church completely, but my husband was still trying to hang onto his Catholic upbringing, so we ended up finding this tiny chapel on a small Naval communications station in the midst of the pineapple fields. The main draw was that they tended to get through the whole thing in half an hour, max.

They had a reasonably good priest when we first started going, but he got moved elsewhere, and, as a stopgap, ended up with a couple of young acolytes barely out of seminary, one of whom had a speech impediment which made him sound like Elmer Fudd (couldn't pronounce his "r"s)

So picture us in this small chapel...with maybe a dozen other attendees at mass...my family consisting of my husband, me, and three teenage budding atheists all trying not to look at each other so as not to burst out laghing whenever the priest referred to the "buwning, fiewy fuwnace". Good times!

Online velkyn

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playing bible's advocate, well, I suppose a furnace could be simply a room you built a fire in.  ;)  And they had some big furnaces for ceramics in the orient (step kilns) but not in bumfuck Israel. 

I was told that my great granparents last name, Misak, was from Meschach

I would have been in hysterics, Jyn.   My husband and I nearly were for our marriage (to silence some relatives, I had the "love is" thing read, never would do that now) and of course we're fans of Princess Bride.  We simply coudlnt' look at each other for the whole ceremony. 
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Offline Nam

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I'm with velkyn, also one has to realize that something gets lost in translation.  Translation to any language isn't perfect based on the original language it came from.  I've known this in the years as a researcher and translator of old english into modern english.

-Nam
"presumptions are the bitch of all assumptions" -- me

Offline Brakeman

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The mistake that people make in calling a big "furnace" big, is thinking a big outside is equal to a big inside. One of the largest melting furnaces in the world is at Tell City, Indiana. They melt cast iron and even though the furnace is 5 stories high and 40 feet across, the interior is only about three maybe four feet in diameter. The only kind of furnaces available on the planet back then were combustion type, not electric. So the fuel had to have available oxygen. Not too much, or the intake of cold air cooled the furnace and not too little or the flames are starved. The bible clearly says furnace and not oven, so at a minimum it would have to get to fire clay temperatures but most likely was referring to a smelting furnace for bronze. Those temperatures are too high to hit in a large furnace without blown air intakes, but that wasn't understood or invented yet. The story claims that the heat was sooo hot that it killed the guards pushing them into it immediately from which we can imply a temp of over 2000C easily, but no way was that possible in the days of burning dung and brush.  With an interior of at least 5.5 feet high, 7 feet deep and 7 feet wide, you could not possibly have created those temperatures with brush, wood chips, or dung in a stone furnace that sucks enormous amounts of heat through the walls.

Like I said before, it seems simple and uncontroversial, unless you've ever tried to make or design furnaces, then you quickly see that it is impossible. The story is bullshit. It could not have happened as described and there were no fixed furnaces of that size anywhere.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 06:18:41 PM by Brakeman »
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Online velkyn

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agreed. and my excuse was the best I could do even knowing a little about furnaces unlike Brakeman  ;D   

There was a old iron furnace near my house when i was growing up, just like this one but in worse shape: http://www.oldindustry.org/PA_HTML/Pa_Buchanan.html

I clambered all over it and it's amazing on how tiny the "work area" is in these things.  The whole area around that house, down some old dirt roads, the banks of the nearby creek, are covered in slag (some quite pretty in green and blue "glass"). 
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Offline gonegolfing

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Jeezzuzz Brakeman !  You failed to add the great vrs. 28-29 which show how old King Neb. responed to this miracle !

Quote
Dan 3:28  Nebuchadnezzar spake and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and have yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
Dan 3:29 Therefore I make a decree, that every people, nation, and language, which speak anything amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill; because there is no other god that is able to deliver after this sort.

Chop Chop !! It's a shitty story actually  ;D

 &)
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.