I was going to bring this up as a question to BS, but actually decided it was better served as a general question to the forum as I would like to see some answers from people with who will actually understand the implications of the question.
I sort of hinted at this in the thread where I was defining his character but I only mentioned this as an aside and never really formed it into a point. So here it is for the consumption of the forum.
There are two parts to this. One for BS, and one for Math.
Firstly, here is the Wiki definition of morality.
Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation among intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and bad (or wrong). A moral code is a system of morality (for example, according to a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc.) and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code. The adjective moral is synonymous with "good" or "right." Immorality is the active opposition to morality (i.e. good or right), while amorality is variously defined as an unawareness of, indifference toward, or disbelief in any set of moral standards or principles.
* In its descriptive sense, "morality" refers to personal or cultural values, codes of conduct or social mores. It does not connote objective claims of right or wrong, but only refers to that which is considered right or wrong. Descriptive ethics is the branch of philosophy which studies morality in this sense.
* In its normative sense, "morality" refers to whatever (if anything) is actually right or wrong, which may be independent of the values or mores held by any particular peoples or cultures. Normative ethics is the branch of philosophy which studies morality in this sense.
Now some lines from BS.
Yes, that pretty much sums it up. I trust that everything God has commanded or allowed was for the preservation and betterment of the human race over the entire course of time. He is the Creator, not just some politician in the sky trying to show off.
Therefore, if there does exist a supreme being that created all of us, you are going to tell Him how he Is to conduct Himself….whether His conduct makes sense to you or not? In other words, is it not possible that He possesses the ability to make decisions and carry out plans via a wisdom and understanding that you cannot comprehend. This is one of the things I find most startling. If you are willing to concede that there might just be an all powerful Creator (that created the heavens, earth, universe, plants, animals, and you and I), then it only goes to reason that He is in possession of a wisdom that far exceeds yours.
So the claim here is that BS assumes that god possesses some unique understanding or capacity to understand how certain things will turn out. As a result of this vast power god is justified in doing anything that he needs to do in order to ensure things go his way. As his creations, we are must follow his commands and live with what he does to us, whatever that may be.
Now let's assume for a moment that this position of BS's is actually how the real world works. This brings up several issues.
1.Can a human being under this scenario actually be said to be a "moral" person of any kind, since the idea of right or wrong is relegated solely to the choices of another?
2.Does the term "morality" actually have any real meaning at this point?
3.What are the possible implications regarding the nature of a being that would create this kind of system?
Now the Math parts.
Do any of you understand that, according to the Biblical narrative which we've assumed to be true for the sake of discussion, you sinned against God? Do you thus understand that He owes you no mercy, only justice? Do you understand that the just punishment for sinning against an infinite God is an infinite Hell?
I mean, you're talking about the fact that sinners are sent to Hell as a terrible state that God really ought do something about. According to the Bible (which you've assumed true to show how mean He is) sinners get sent to Hell because they deserve it. You ought be perfect, and yet are not. You are mercifully offered chance after chance after chance after chance to turn, and will have none of it. After the umpteenth time you spit in his face, (and look at all the threads on this very forum to see examples of just that) do you really think God still owes you His mercy? How can "mercy" be something anyone owes you, anyway?
Let me be very clear here: He is under no obligation to save you. He is under NO obligation to show you mercy. He WILL, if you but ask him, but your demanding it of Him like a petulant child will get you nowhere. I mean, how could you even think He has some sort of obligation to you? Remember, we're assuming the whole biblical narrative is true. How in the world do you get from "I've sinned against an infinitely holy Creator" to "He really ought to save me because I know better than He does about what's best." Have you even read the Bible? I mean, that's the whole point of Romans 9: You're a sinner. You've sinned. You don't get to demand things of God. You just don't. Have you really truly and honestly examined your own life, that you could honestly think a perfect and holy God is required to capitulate to your dands? Seriously? The arrogance of such a claim is stunning...
If a being that is benevolent, good, and loving doesn't have to show mercy, then the words cease to have any meaning don't they?
I could be the most moral person in the world if I only had to do live up to them when I felt like it.
Math, this exactly when those things should come into play. It's when someone has sinned and done wrong that you should be the most loving and merciful. That's where morality really comes into play. It's easy to say "don't steal when" you're rich. It's when you're poor and starving that it becomes a true moral decision.
If god is loving then the sinners are the ones he should love the most. They should be welcomed, not rejected, because he loves and no one needs that love more. That's the true test of love and morality.
First let's state the assumptions we will be operating under.
1.God is a loving being.
2.God is Just being.
3.God is merciful.
So here we have Math stating that the torments of hell are a fitting punishment for god to inflict on humans. As well as that god is right to do this to people for not being perfect as we have been commanded.
I included my response to him up there because I felt it would help to illustrate the sorts of questions being considered and asked in this.
1. If morality is applied selectively, does it begin to lose it's meaning?
2. Do morals have any meaning if they are never tested?
3.In dealing with someone you love, is there ever a scenario when punishing them is more important than displaying your love for them?
Just some thoughts due to boredom, and curious to see the answers and discussions.