Author Topic: Most True Christians Are Sadists  (Read 36432 times)

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Offline BibleStudent

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2011, 04:15:09 PM »
Ad_hominem
First? Christians suffer, wallow in obscurity, do not prosper, and lack hope and a future in the *exact* same proportions as everybody else, statistically speaking. Same rates of depression, suicide, all that. No difference.

Christian or not, we are capable of diverting God’s “PLAN” (<--- key word). He allows us to make choices that run counter to many of the “PLANS” He has for us. The question asked was how do I “know God’s plan is a good one”. I answered it with a specific statement made by God about what His Plan is for us.

God’s plan is to ultimately do away with all sufferring, evil, and sadness….which I’m sure you will agree is a “good” plan.

Offline naemhni

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2011, 04:19:59 PM »
God’s plan is to ultimately do away with all sufferring, evil, and sadness….which I’m sure you will agree is a “good” plan.

So what's he waiting for?
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2011, 04:57:32 PM »
Quote
God’s plan is to ultimately do away with all sufferring, evil, and sadness….which I’m sure you will agree is a “good” plan.


Given the back story and portrayal of that fictional character in the bible, I would say not.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline onesteward

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2011, 05:30:40 PM »


Velkyn, you are forgetting the basic principle of SPAG.  Nice people have a nice God.

To them the little Canaanite children went to Heaven.

As opposed to sticking around and being subjected to human sacrifice? Burnt alive? If nothing happened would they( The Canaanites) still be practicing it?How many multiplied thousands more children would have suffered?
When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
when sorrows like sea billows roll;
what ever my lot, you have taught me to say
it is well, it is well with my soul.

Horatio Spafford

Offline C

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2011, 06:37:20 PM »
Christian or not, we are capable of diverting God’s “PLAN” (<--- key word). He allows us to make choices that run counter to many of the “PLANS” He has for us.

If your god is omniscient, your 'argument' of its divine plans and how it supposedly allows us to ruin its plans time and time again is undone immediately.
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Offline MathIsCool

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2011, 08:03:05 PM »
Thanks for the replies :)

I wish we have more theist respondents though.
Well, OK.

[Most True Christians Are Sadists.]  They see an injured friend suffer for a few weeks, they show their sympathy.

They know an atheist friend is going to suffer in hell for eternity, they say "well everybody is free to have their own believes" instead spending their whole life to convert us atheist. I mean what is significance  of their 100 years on Earth if they are about to live in heaven for eternity?

First of all, let me note it's a little funny to have a question that says "Why don't more Christians try to convert atheists", and then when a Christian does jump in the thread to answer the question directed to  Christians, you guys flippin' murder him:

I see nothing but arrogance, fear and greed in your actions.
...
We have you, a Christian, who worships a being that is demonstrably sadistic, supposedly harming people for no fault of their own per its own holy book. ... This is the reasoning of a sycophant and a fellow sadist.  You have no trouble with people being harmed for no reason and indeed you seem to enjoy the thought since if it does happen, it validates your nonsense.
...
...
Sorry chief. Personally? I think you're fucking pathetic.
What a piece of shit human being.
Perfect for worshipping a piece of shit deity, really. Works out pretty well.
...
You unbelievably dim-witted weirdo.
... I am glad you came back, BS, you can show the newer members just how vile a Christian can be.
Blargaddy blarg blahrgo. That's me speaking in tounges. Translation? I'll call you a coward and a weirdo and whatever else all day long, because A.)You're cowardly and weird in addition to other things, and B.)The fact that your widdle feewing get hurt easily has absolutely no baring on the validity of the points I've been making.

Further translation? Man the f**k up, cowboy.
...
You'll have to take the elevator UP to the gutter.

It's really remarkable BibleStudent has been as patient as he has considering the poison he's received back.  You're not exactly giving atheists a good name here, folks.

Anyways, to answer your question, sfsy1:
Romans 9: 1-3 speaks of Paul's "unceasing anguish" due to his kinsmen being accursed.  Rest assured, Christians don't enjoy others suffering in Hell, nor does God.  See Ezekiel 18:23 -
Quote from: God, via Ezekiel 18:23
Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?

The fact of the matter is, sfsy1, that sometimes unbelievers are set in their ways against God.  (Take a look at some of the members on this forum for an unfortunate first-hand look.)  As Christians we are indeed interested in saving the lost, but it's only going to work out if they want to be saved.  We pray, we argue, we reason... yet if all our efforts are going for naught, we're going to (tearfully) stop trying, or in your words, to say "Well, everyone is entitled to their beliefs - in this life, anyways."  It sucks, but we're not going to bash our heads against an unrelenting brick wall.  That's not to say God can't work a miracle - of course He could - but in the absence of such a miracle, against demonstrable repeated hardheartedness: yes, we will eventually stop trying.

At the end of that chapter in Israel, God addresses the unrepentant Israel again, saying:

Quote from: God, via Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live.”

That's really Christians prayer for atheists.  Why will you die?  Why will you continue in your foolish belief and not turn, and live?

Hope that answers the question, sfsy1.

-MiC
Why not name the website ... "whywontGodallowlaserstoshootoutofmyeyespewpewpew.com"

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Offline Historicity

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2011, 09:01:11 PM »
  That's not to say God can't work a miracle - of course He could - but in the absence of such a miracle, against demonstrable repeated hardheartedness: yes, we will eventually stop trying.
Heal an amputee, maybe?

Offline Historicity

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2011, 09:04:43 PM »
Velkyn, you are forgetting the basic principle of SPAG.  Nice people have a nice God.
To them the little Canaanite children went to Heaven.
As opposed to sticking around and being subjected to human sacrifice? Burnt alive? If nothing happened would they( The Canaanites) still be practicing it?How many multiplied thousands more children would have suffered?
Not a lot.  The Hebrews practiced human sacrifice, too.  Including their own children.  They eventually quit.

The Canaanite children were not killed to save them.  They were killed as human sacrifice to Jehovah.



« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 09:06:22 PM by Historicity »

Offline C

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2011, 09:05:27 PM »
Quote
It's really remarkable BibleStudent has been as patient as he has considering the poison he's received back.  You're not exactly giving atheists a good name here, folks.

Actually read his posts in the thread and this: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,18077.0.html
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Offline fishjie

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2011, 09:10:46 PM »
Why do you assume the creator has a good plan?   

Because He says He does:

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.


That's not a very good reason.   Con men say a lot of things, but what they say is not trustworthy.    Again, how do you know this creator person has a good plan when he could just as easily be trolling the entire universe and having fun at our expense?   

Perhaps you could indicate specifically what it is that you are looking for. I do not know what else would satisfy your request.

I am specifically looking for you to answer my question: how do you know the creator has a plan, let alone a good one?   

Offline C

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2011, 09:14:13 PM »
^^^^^ $50 that the answer will be a verse from the Bible.
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Offline BibleStudent

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2011, 09:43:32 PM »
Why do you assume the creator has a good plan?   

Because He says He does:

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.


That's not a very good reason.   Con men say a lot of things, but what they say is not trustworthy.    Again, how do you know this creator person has a good plan when he could just as easily be trolling the entire universe and having fun at our expense?   

Perhaps you could indicate specifically what it is that you are looking for. I do not know what else would satisfy your request.

I am specifically looking for you to answer my question: how do you know the creator has a plan, let alone a good one?   

I suppose it's a matter of interpretation. I read the Good Book and see a good plan....just the same way you might examine the plan for, say, a way of making peanut butter slices and determine whether it's a good plan or a bad plan. If you read the Good Book and feel that God is playing a big trick on all of us for the purpose of entertaining Himself then I fail to see how I could demonstrate otherwise.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2011, 09:49:39 PM »

For the record, I vehemently reject my being sentenced to the ER. To this day, I do not know 'why' I was even placed there because I was never afforded even one shred of evidence for whatever accusations were being made. Regardless, I fail to see how mentioning this provides any substance to the OP. In fact, it seems to be nothing more than an appeal to ridicule.

Really, you actually need it explained? Becuase the conversations still exist. We can go over the cliff notes anytime you want.

Here's Lady from your ER thread.

"I'll give you a few examples out of many: Reply #149 in the topic Why is evolution more plausible than evolution?

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.msg395430.html#msg395430
Disregarding other posters, and making posts that were not contributing to discussion. Reply #150, by Alzael, elaborates on what happened.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.msg396741.html#msg396741
Not BibleStudent, but Alzael in Reply #163 re-clarifies as to why there is a problem to begin with.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.msg396991.html#msg396991
JeffPT telling it how it is in Reply #172, because BibleStudent keeps repeating the same mistakes.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.msg397166.html#msg397166
BibleStudent trying to say something ENTIRELY different, plus other topics of discussion in Reply #179

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.msg397179.html#msg397179
Omen dissecting above post because BibleStudent was not doing it right.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.msg397413.html#msg397413
Reply #189, BibleStudent making ONE of many claims, which then disappear into the abyss and never discusses the claim again.

Completely disacknowledges my information about adaptation, along with other posters' information as well, then goes on to create ANOTHER claim which he can't back up, and then leaves it. It goes on and on and on...

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.msg397569.html#msg397569
Here is Alzael making the observation, AGAIN, that BibleStudent keeps disacknowledging posts.

This is only a few examples, BibleStudent. I don't want you to go into the ToE and Creationism. We just want you to work with us and not disacknowledge posts, keep making base-less claims, or claims that you do not know enough about, then suddenly leave them, along with not getting the point of/completely ignoring counter-posts against said claims."


Lady again.

"Oh my. What a job to try to go as far back as possible, since your official return, to see where you are at fault.

If you want the most recent proper start-point (Alzael making the point of you to already go back to address everyone properly:

Starting at Page 6 of Why is evolution more plausible than evolution? http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.145.html

Just go page by page and look at how frustrated we are with you because you aren't grasping basic material, and disacknowledging sources and trying to guide you to understand some concepts better. From the very start, BibleStudent, you could keep your Creationism and your belief in God, but the goal was to not keep your misinformation on the sciences and how the ToE works.

If you wanna go further back (remember this?):

The beginning of Why is evolution more plausible than creationism? http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.0.html

And the infamous How Do Adherents Explain Evolution? http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17176.522.html

That topic was a disaster. And you failed to acknowledge much evidence as we tried to guide you along, but then you decided to go ahead and ignore, after trying to lie and making too many claims that you can't back up, and didn't even bother discussing your claims nearly enough!

Furthermore, here is me, making it clear to you (in the early stages of the topic Why is evolution more plausible than creationism?) that it would be wonderful if you acknowledged the recent topic (at that time, How Do Adherents Explain Evolution) from whence you came from:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.87.html

And you never did.

Side-note: This was never about evolution to begin with; it is as to how he presents his understanding of everything that has been said many times in other topics and see if he has done proper analysis regarding his reading of users' posts.

Edit: Also would like to add that I already was aware of what was going on before. The above statement is not just blabber. It was the whole point of the past topic, too, and the reason as to how you ended up moderated. I thought you would have learned by now. Here is the link to the other topic, in which I state the same thing I said above, after you being moderated and going away:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17176.812.htm

Believe it or not, despite you being in the ER, you were capable of civil discussion. I remember moments in which that was indeed going on:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17764.203.html

See? Isn't that nice? We were working and discussing with you. It's not that we don't like what you have to say. It's just that you kept making empty, baseless claims at points, which was inappropriate, especially because we expected you to back it up, as well as discuss what you think so as to continue civil discussion. Unfortunately, the discussion didn't go on for long because you kept leaving. And then you came back, and it was as if nothing happened, as if the posts were all irrelevant, or didn't contain enough substance, plus you barely bothered to discuss.
"

Me.


And if you would have spent another ten minutes Googling the rebuttals to each of the ten alleged potential 'falsifiers', you would have discovered just how silly they are. You intentionally sought out a "list" without actually considering whether the items in your "list" were legitimate or not.
 

Actually I did. They were all stupid creationist arguments. I notice that you didn't bother to use them to make your own arguments against them. You know, actually study the "rebuttals" and then use them to form a thought. Granted I realize that thinking puts a great deal of stress on your brain, but still. Instead all you manage to do is scratch your mental crotch and spout out something empty as usual.

In fact, you didn't actually respond to a single point made in my last two posts. All you managed was a "Nuh-uh" and to put your hands over your ears (or I suppose eyes in this case). You still fail to answer any questions that might actually require you to put some thought into it.

So just to sum up, you still can't demonstrate any knowledgde of the topic, or that you're even remotely capable of having this conversation, or that you're even actually paying attention to what's being said, or that you're genuinely capable of an original thought. Well I suppose that even though you're vaccuous, uneducated, and immensely stupid, at the very least you're consistent about it.

Now why don't you go back to #293 and #295 and actually use some semblance of thought this time like a good little dancing-monkey. Or respond to Emergence and try to show that you aren't actually as mentally deficient as you constantly demonstrate yourself to be.

Mod warning.


And if you would have spent another ten minutes Googling the rebuttals to each of the ten alleged potential 'falsifiers', you would have discovered just how silly they are. You intentionally sought out a "list" without actually considering whether the items in your "list" were legitimate or not.
 


You should be rebutting them, using evidence, as opposed to just claiming they are silly.  All scientific theories must be falsifiable, and evolution is no exception.  You are being reported again for avoiding direct replies.  Keep in mind that you stepped into this thread for some reason, at which time everyone expects you to participate honestly.  Denying that evolution can easily be falsified is not being honest.

Jetson[/b]


Let's not forget when you were asked to produce even a single peer-reviewed paper written by an actual scientist in the field that proved creationism.

You came up with two written by engineers, one written by a philosopher, some by lawyers etc.

Then tried to argue for several pages how it was unreasonable to request that you cite a paper by someone who was actually qualified to talk about evolution.

Seriously BS, I have several threads of evidence for the accusations, mod warnings, evidence presented against you that you ignored/dodged/etc. We can go down this road if you want, or you can stop trying to pretend. Because this tactic of yours is not going to work out well for you. Anymore than your admittance that you would rather surrender a Jewish family to the Nazis than lie to protect them worked out for you before.

Or the bit about children having to submit to their parents will, even if it meant dying or committing immoral crimes.

We can go down all those roads again, if you want. Or you can try to be at least semi-honest.

Personally, I'm not holding my breath.

"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline fishjie

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2011, 09:51:39 PM »
Why do you assume the creator has a good plan?   

Because He says He does:

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.


That's not a very good reason.   Con men say a lot of things, but what they say is not trustworthy.    Again, how do you know this creator person has a good plan when he could just as easily be trolling the entire universe and having fun at our expense?   

Perhaps you could indicate specifically what it is that you are looking for. I do not know what else would satisfy your request.

I am specifically looking for you to answer my question: how do you know the creator has a plan, let alone a good one?   

I suppose it's a matter of interpretation. I read the Good Book and see a good plan....just the same way you might examine the plan for, say, a way of making peanut butter slices and determine whether it's a good plan or a bad plan. If you read the Good Book and feel that God is playing a big trick on all of us for the purpose of entertaining Himself then I fail to see how I could demonstrate otherwise.

So you think drowning all of creation in a giant flood is a good plan?   Even God said he regretted it afterward.   Seems like he didn't think it was a very good plan either...

Offline BibleStudent

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2011, 10:05:51 PM »
@Alzael

You think you are right. I think I am right. Let's just agree that we disagree on something. It's over and done with. Let it go, man.

Offline BibleStudent

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2011, 10:23:28 PM »
So you think drowning all of creation in a giant flood is a good plan?   Even God said he regretted it afterward.   Seems like he didn't think it was a very good plan either...

God did not say that He regretted causing the flood....nor did He drown ALL of creation. He removed the evil which had almost completely destroyed all of mankind and preserved the only living humans who still recognized Him as the one and only God. Satan's grand plan to obliterate any chance of the promised Messiah was brought to an end. While it may seem harsh to you, the consequences of it not occurring would have been a fatal blow to God's plan to save any of us.   

Offline BibleStudent

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2011, 10:27:45 PM »
God’s plan is to ultimately do away with all sufferring, evil, and sadness….which I’m sure you will agree is a “good” plan.

So what's he waiting for?

I do not know the answer to that question except to say that certain events have not yet occurred.

Why do ask? Are you anxious to die?

Offline C

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2011, 10:32:05 PM »
God did not say that He regretted causing the flood....nor did He drown ALL of creation. He removed the evil which had almost completely destroyed all of mankind and preserved the only living humans who still recognized Him as the one and only God. Satan's grand plan to obliterate any chance of the promised Messiah was brought to an end. While it may seem harsh to you, the consequences of it not occurring would have been a fatal blow to God's plan to save any of us.



Unsubstantiated rambling that ultimately shows your god as a narcissistic and sadistic being that seems to only want adoration of its creation.
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2011, 11:55:17 PM »
God did not say that He regretted causing the flood....nor did He drown ALL of creation. He removed the evil which had almost completely destroyed all of mankind and preserved the only living humans who still recognized Him as the one and only God. Satan's grand plan to obliterate any chance of the promised Messiah was brought to an end. While it may seem harsh to you, the consequences of it not occurring would have been a fatal blow to God's plan to save any of us.

The fact that you say this nonsense as if you really believe it is frightening.  Have you really stopped to take a look at what you're saying here?  It's really loony.  It sounds so much like a cult. 

I have to ask though... Did the flood kill Satan?  The reason I ask is because I'd like to know why it was a better option to kill everyone on the planet instead of just getting rid of Satan and giving a bit more evidence of himself to everyone?  I would think foiling Satan's master plan would best be accomplished by destroying Satan himself instead of all the creatures God supposedly loved.  Also by letting Satan live, he puts any future messianic plans in jeopardy.  The whole story makes your God look like a moron.  He pulled the same stupid stuff with pharoah too.  Why not just put the screws to him instead of killing all the livestock, causing famine and then killing everyone's first born son? 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline fishjie

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2011, 03:44:25 AM »
So you think drowning all of creation in a giant flood is a good plan?   Even God said he regretted it afterward.   Seems like he didn't think it was a very good plan either...

God did not say that He regretted causing the flood....nor did He drown ALL of creation. He removed the evil which had almost completely destroyed all of mankind and preserved the only living humans who still recognized Him as the one and only God. Satan's grand plan to obliterate any chance of the promised Messiah was brought to an end. While it may seem harsh to you, the consequences of it not occurring would have been a fatal blow to God's plan to save any of us.

Yeah this doesn't strike me as a good plan.   If he knew all his creation was going to be evil, why didn't he just start off with Noah in the first place.    I mean he simply breathed life into Adam, so he could have just not bothered hitting the "reset" button with a flood and just created Noah to begin with.     That way he wouldn't have to kill any babies.    Are you saying babies are evil too?    Also, if God wanted to stop Satan, why did he even bother creating Satan in the first place?    Then we wouldn't even need to be saved in the first place.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2011, 04:24:00 AM »
God did not say that He regretted causing the flood.... ...Satan's grand plan to obliterate any chance of the promised Messiah was brought to an end.

Your ID "BibleStudent" is quite inappropriate.  Satan isn't in that story.  In the much later Book of Job, Satan is still a member of God's court.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2011, 05:26:46 AM »
@OP This quote from last night's Slate debate at NYU:
Quote
Grayling argued. “The extremists are the most honest of the people who have a religious view because they commit themselves to what their tradition tells them, and they stay closest to the text,” he said, explaining that moderate believers often “cherry-pick” the best parts of their religion, ignoring the rest. “Now, if that’s real religion, that’s honest religion, the world is very much better off without it.”

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2011, 09:31:09 AM »
God did not say that He regretted causing the flood....nor did He drown ALL of creation. He removed the evil which had almost completely destroyed all of mankind and preserved the only living humans who still recognized Him as the one and only God. Satan's grand plan to obliterate any chance of the promised Messiah was brought to an end. While it may seem harsh to you, the consequences of it not occurring would have been a fatal blow to God's plan to save any of us.

He may not have regretted the flood, but according to the story he DID regret creating man in the first place. Wouldn't he have known how it was all going to turn out? That doesn't speak all that well for his omniscience. It simply doesn't make sense for him to create something he knew he was going to regret. It puts god on the same level as, say, someone having too many drinks at a party even though they know they're going to have a hangover the next day.

And as for his "plan...that again brings the idea of free will into play. If god has some grand master plan, it must somehow override us constantly using our free will to mess with it, so he could no doubt have tweaked things here and there before all of humanity got to the point of being totally unsalvagable. Again, did he not see that coming? Are you saying that the plan was, from the beginning, to create a race of people who would inevitably need to be saved from themselves? That makes him nothing more than a manipulative tyrant, engineering his creation to maximize the worship he would get from one faction while giving him an excuse to mercilessly fry the rest (with what I can only picture as great glee).


Offline BibleStudent

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2011, 10:01:18 AM »
God did not say that He regretted causing the flood....nor did He drown ALL of creation. He removed the evil which had almost completely destroyed all of mankind and preserved the only living humans who still recognized Him as the one and only God. Satan's grand plan to obliterate any chance of the promised Messiah was brought to an end. While it may seem harsh to you, the consequences of it not occurring would have been a fatal blow to God's plan to save any of us.

The fact that you say this nonsense as if you really believe it is frightening.  Have you really stopped to take a look at what you're saying here?  It's really loony.  It sounds so much like a cult. 

I have to ask though... Did the flood kill Satan?  The reason I ask is because I'd like to know why it was a better option to kill everyone on the planet instead of just getting rid of Satan and giving a bit more evidence of himself to everyone?  I would think foiling Satan's master plan would best be accomplished by destroying Satan himself instead of all the creatures God supposedly loved.  Also by letting Satan live, he puts any future messianic plans in jeopardy.  The whole story makes your God look like a moron.  He pulled the same stupid stuff with pharoah too.  Why not just put the screws to him instead of killing all the livestock, causing famine and then killing everyone's first born son?

Yes, granted, the abbreviated simplistic way I explained it probably does come across to some as sounding a bit like a tall tale. Regardless, it does provide an account (albeit brief) of some of the circumstances involved in the event. Who knows, though, even a more scholarly sounding account may come across the same way to you….I don’t know.

I will also concede that some of the stories in the Good Book have a rather odd theme or take place in ways that do not register with our modern way of perceiving the world.  I don’t think there are too many Christians who would deny being puzzled at some of the contents of the Bible. After all, it speaks of a spiritual world that our so-called “enlightened” way of rationalizing has difficulty understanding, much less appreciating.

However, those impressions do not make it unreal nor do they necessarily mean the Good Book is a fairytale. Instead, it simply means that God’s ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts (Isaiah 55-8). If God's wisdom were to have a weakness, it would still be superior to man’s wisdom (1 Chorinthians 1:18-20). Just because we do not understand something or agree with it does mean we are to dismiss it. We are cautioned not to lean on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5-6). The result of failing to recognize this is self deception….(I might start a topic on self deception as it relates to the ToE….would love to hear some ‘evolutionary’ explanations for that one).

God created every good thing in this world, including man. It only follows that He knows far more than we do and His wisdom far surpasses our own.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 10:03:03 AM by BibleStudent »

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2011, 10:02:02 AM »
Sadism is one of the strongest themes with Biblegod and his various religions.  Besides the sadisms of the various OT punishments listed on other threads, the threat of hell from Xian mythology, you have to consider that the central image for Xianity is the cross, the instrument by which Jesus was tortured to death.  And if you are Catholic, you get to see the graven image of Jesus on the torture device.  The cross/crucifix is smack front and center inside the sanctuary and usually on top of the building. 

Isn't it fascinating that the Official Symbol of Xianity is a device of torture? ...

I was just thinking of this the other day. When I see a cross I see a tortured, bleeding man, suffering for his father. What father in his right mind would require that of his son? Drives me bonkers trying to figure out how people buy into it.

Then add in ritual cannibalism. Why would a god require us to eat him? Talk about primitive and disgusting. I don't care if it's literal or metaphorical, it's gross.

Personally, I find the bible to be one of the scariest horror stories I've ever read. The nice bits don't even begin to make up for the nasty bits. I no longer read Stephen King either.  ;)
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline BibleStudent

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2011, 10:22:10 AM »
He may not have regretted the flood, but according to the story he DID regret creating man in the first place. Wouldn't he have known how it was all going to turn out? That doesn't speak all that well for his omniscience. It simply doesn't make sense for him to create something he knew he was going to regret. It puts god on the same level as, say, someone having too many drinks at a party even though they know they're going to have a hangover the next day.

The answer to this question is difficult to explain but not so difficult to understand once you’ve grasped it. I recommend you start here:

http://www.heavensfamily.org/ss/e_teachings/2008/gods-regrets-mans-free-will

Let me know your thoughts.

Offline BibleStudent

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2011, 10:23:38 AM »
I was just thinking of this the other day. When I see a cross I see a tortured, bleeding man, suffering for his father. What father in his right mind would require that of his son? Drives me bonkers trying to figure out how people buy into it.

Then add in ritual cannibalism. Why would a god require us to eat him? Talk about primitive and disgusting. I don't care if it's literal or metaphorical, it's gross.

Personally, I find the bible to be one of the scariest horror stories I've ever read. The nice bits don't even begin to make up for the nasty bits. I no longer read Stephen King either.  ;)

See my post #52 above.

Offline jynnan tonnix

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2011, 10:58:49 AM »
He may not have regretted the flood, but according to the story he DID regret creating man in the first place. Wouldn't he have known how it was all going to turn out? That doesn't speak all that well for his omniscience. It simply doesn't make sense for him to create something he knew he was going to regret. It puts god on the same level as, say, someone having too many drinks at a party even though they know they're going to have a hangover the next day.

The answer to this question is difficult to explain but not so difficult to understand once you’ve grasped it. I recommend you start here:

http://www.heavensfamily.org/ss/e_teachings/2008/gods-regrets-mans-free-will

Let me know your thoughts.

OK...I understand what he is saying here, but doesn't that negate the idea of god's having a plan? If an omniscient, omnipotent being sets a plan into action, wouldn't he either be assured of the outcome or have a way to ensure that it comes to fruition?

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Re: Most True Christians Are Sadists
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2011, 11:03:41 AM »
God’s plan is to ultimately do away with all sufferring, evil, and sadness….which I’m sure you will agree is a “good” plan.

So what's he waiting for?

I do not know the answer to that question except to say that certain events have not yet occurred.

Would you care to speculate, then?
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn