Author Topic: My Christian Family  (Read 12048 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6198
  • Darwins +408/-5
  • Gender: Male
My Christian Family
« on: November 13, 2011, 03:29:10 AM »
I'd like to tell you all about my family.  Specifically, my mother, father, and sister.  All three of them good Christians, good people.  Regular churchgoers, charitable....nice people.

My sister got married a few years ago, to a guy from the church, and soon after was pregnant.  Twins.  On the day they were born, there were big complications.  Everyone at the church prayed for them.

The next day, she died.  I'm not sure she even got the chance to hold her babies.

The husband moved away, and soon after remarried - either a lady vicar or lay preacher, I can't recall.  With two sets of grandparents in their own family, there was no room for my mum and dad.  Pretty soon they were cut off from my sister's children.

They took it all very badly, and its likely this double whammy was what set off my mother's Alzheimers.  Over the last couple years she has got worse, to the stage now where she looks at me and will say "I really wish I'd had children - I never did, you know".

Last Monday my father went into hospital, complications with his medicines.  On about 20 pills a day for various things, he wasn't right since my sister's death, except it hit him physically, and his health deteriorated over the last couple years.  Caring for my mum took it out of him as well, but he hid her illness from me.  Only this summer, when he had the first of four hospital stays and mum stayed with us was it clear how bad she'd got.  I started getting social services involved, but the wheels grind slowly.  This latest visit, they found a great respite care home while he is in hospital - she needs someone around her all the time now.  My wife and I have to both work, we can't do it.

My dad....again, I'm sure everyone was praying for him.  Yesterday morning he died, basically just worn out.  He was 75.  It all happened very fast - between the hospital calling to say "better come today" and calling to say "he's gone" was about 45 minutes.  I was sorting out childcare and my wife was on her way back from work with the car. 

My mum doesn't know yet.  Tomorrow I have to collect her and tell her and take her to the Chapel of Rest to see him.  With her Alzheimer's, it may well be that she hears that her husband of 45+ years is dead, over and over again as she forgets, and asks for him, and has the news broken again.

My sister, my mother, my father.  All good Christians, all good people, with their church praying for them all.

Life stinks.  I am so, so glad that there is no god.  Because a god that would do all that.....

That's all.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11041
  • Darwins +285/-37
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2011, 03:39:32 AM »
I have nothing to say that can help with what you have to do, but I wish you the best of luck.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10401
  • Darwins +185/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2011, 04:59:35 AM »
What is that old saying?, "God does not give us more than we can bear".  Always thought that was bs.

Life sure seems to give people a lot to deal with.  Caring for parents as they get older is one.  We, in the West, dont seem to do a very good job of that.  IM sure it is going to get worse as health care becomes more and more expensive and out of reach.

Take one step at a time.  Sounds like you are doing as best as you can with the situation.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7276
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2011, 08:42:41 AM »
Sorry to hear this news Anfauglir.  Seems like your handling as well as possible under the circumstances.  We can be good listeners, if nothing else.

Offline ungod

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
  • Darwins +15/-9
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2011, 09:50:37 AM »
Hope things get better for you when all this is over.
Funny how at such times, we don't seem to hear from the "Great Designer" crowd, or about Jesus' love, or God's goodness....
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Online Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6706
  • Darwins +534/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2011, 10:19:38 AM »
The pointlessness of religion... my commiserations...
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline curiousgirl

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
  • Darwins +22/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • Inquisitive agnostic atheist
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2011, 10:52:25 AM »
Anfauglir, I'm so sorry for your loss.

If God were real, I would want to bitch slap him for screwing things up so much.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline kin hell

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5379
  • Darwins +152/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • - .... . .-. . /.. ... / -. --- / --. --- -.. ...
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2011, 10:59:10 AM »
Ah mate    hard hard reality      I am with Lucifer in that without being able to share your burden in real terms, and without a god to make effect-less prayer to, I am left hoping that you may find the most easeful path through what you are dealing with.

The image of your mother's possible repeating nightmare is haunting.

 
Performing all the necessary tasks to the best of your abilities for the most achievable "good" outcome, is perhaps life's own best panacea, but being loaded up with life's ambush random cruelty is very very hard.

  I wish you all well.
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2011, 04:20:59 PM »
I'm so very, very sorry for your losses.  :(

And on a practical note ... I have a cousin who is director of an Alzeimer care facility. They are finding that it's much more humane to lie, yes, lie, to alzeimer's patients about death and other losses. If she forgets the loss, and asks for him, simply say that he'll be there later. Or some other simple thing. To make her revisit his death over and over and over again is, they're finding, not only a waste of time, but cruel. Much better for her to remain calm and happy I think. My father was quite senile in his final years, and we found it much kinder to be vague and not try to update him on things he wouldn't remember anyway. They just caused sadness in him, even if only briefly before he forgot again.

Hugs to you and your family.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6198
  • Darwins +408/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2011, 05:13:01 PM »
Thanks all for your thoughts - its much appreciated.

Traveler, I understand your point about lying.  I'm likely going to be doing that in the future, but I think at least this once I have to tell her, so she can come and see him one last time face to face.  Then again in a couple weeks for the funeral.  And then...I don't know.  I suspect this will be the last straw and she'll just withdraw from the world completely.  Her temporary care home is half an hour away, so I also need to organise one thats a lot nearer us.

Thanks again for letting me vent - its helpful to set it all down.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline voodoo child

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1823
  • Darwins +10/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2011, 09:54:31 PM »
if it means anything at all.. well, you know.
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline catdance62

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Female
  • WWGHA Member
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2011, 09:59:05 PM »
I'm very sorry you had to go through all that. Tough stuff all at once. :(

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12338
  • Darwins +677/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 10:11:46 AM »
That's all.

That really stinks.  I'm with you, brother.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2011, 12:32:02 PM »
my sympathies, Anfauglir.

and Christians wonder why atheists just shake our heads when they claim that prayer does anything.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline shnozzola

Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2011, 06:44:32 PM »
Life stinks.  I am so, so glad that there is no god.  Because a god that would do all that.....
That's all.
And on a practical note ... I have a cousin who is director of an Alzeimer care facility. They are finding that it's much more humane to lie, yes, lie, to alzeimer's patients about death and other losses...... Hugs to you and your family.
Ditto hugs to your family.  Hold each other tight.  My wife works with alzeimers patients and tells them, "yes, in the morning your husband or wife will be here to pick you up, knowing that the lie will help them sleep soundly.  One woman told my wife, "The kids said they were taking me to the mountains, and I've had just about enough of the mountains."  She's had many children who are unknown by their parents thank here for her caring and constant help with their parents who are faded away at best, and violent at worst.   

Nothing we can say helps  - we'll all be there or know somebody, all hoping for good care.  However, life doesn't always stink, Anfauglir.    Your parents and sister have good friends, and that is what is important.  My sister is battling breast cancer, and we can't let it get us down.  As crazy as it sounds - life, as unimportant as it is, is too important and short to feel bad for long.  How old is your mom, man?  Give her a kiss for all of us and savor the knowledge that we care.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 06:52:53 PM by shnozzola »
“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something."  ~ T. H. White
  The real holy trinity:  onion, celery, and bell pepper ~  all Cajun Chefs

Offline jtp56

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 406
  • Darwins +4/-66
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2011, 08:53:31 PM »
Sorry for you loss.  “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Fiji

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1285
  • Darwins +85/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2011, 03:16:37 AM »
I'm sorry for your loss, Anfauglir.

The one thing I remember from Dempsey And Makepeace, aeons ago on aunty Beeb ... "Life's hard, then you die."
Science: I'll believe it when I see it
Faith: I'll see it when I believe it

Schrodinger's thunderdome! One cat enters and one MIGHT leave!

Without life, god has no meaning.

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6198
  • Darwins +408/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2011, 05:34:44 AM »
Last night I had the joy of - firstly - telling my mum the news at the home, and then of being with her when we viewed his body.  Her, me, my wife, all in a bit of a mess.

Thanks once again to everyone for all the support.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Gnu Ordure

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3832
  • Darwins +109/-9
  • Gender: Male
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2011, 04:37:38 PM »
Hi Anf,

Sorry to hear about your father (and your sister as well - that must have been awful for your folks - and for you, of course).

Quote
Life stinks.
If you're hurting now because your father is gone, then that's good, Anf. It means that your love for each other was real and meaningful and valuable.

Grief is the price of love. If one doesn't want to ever pay that price, then don't love anyone. Simple. But who wants to live in a world without love?



May I make an observation, Anf? I sense from your OP that you're feeling angry. This is a natural reaction to any deep loss - a fundamental, childlike feeling of "It's not fair". Which it isn't.   

Some people in this situation want to find somebody or something to be angry at. So they blame the doctors, or social services, or the drunk driver, or the government, or their relatives. And if they're not careful, they get stuck in a fight for years for 'justice' or 'revenge' - as if that would take their pain away.

So don't bother looking for scapegoats, Anf. That's a waste of time.

I hope you don't mind me saying that. I'm trying to help.

Best wishes,

Gnu.

PS Sorry about your mum, as well. My mother had Alzheimer's for her last five years, as I think you know. I'd be happy to share my experience of her treatment under the NHS, and of how it was for us personally; but you probably know that the progress of dementias are unpredictable, so you have to take it day by day.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 05:07:10 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline RaymondKHessel

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1914
  • Darwins +73/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • Born with insight, and a raised fist.
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2011, 05:06:26 PM »
Holy shit, An... I had no idea you had that kind of mess on your plate.

<brohug>

I'm bad with condolences. Real talk, ain't no way I can empathize with what you're going through. Not really. I can try to imagine, and it's fucking horrible, but there are so many little side things that empathy can't fit into it's scope... I mean planning funerals and dealing with estates and adapting to loss and all that...

That's a lot of weight for any set of shoulders my man, and I wish I could shift my own personal planet a little to the left and maybe help you carry some.

Good luck homey. Try and keep yer head up. What's that shit from the Crow? "It can't rain all the time."? Yeah. Words of wisdom.
Born with insight, and a raised fist.

Offline wright

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1859
  • Darwins +79/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sleep like a log, snore like a chainsaw."
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2011, 05:23:34 PM »
My sympathies for what they're worth, Anfauglir.

My paternal grandfather's body outlasted his mind by over a year. Though he had good care and was as in good spirits as could be expected, his senility was wrenching to all of us who had known and loved him.

All I can think to say is, don't be ashamed to lean on people who offer you support and whom you know you can trust. There is no shame in taking sincerely given comfort when overwhelmed with life's shit.

Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Online nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6688
  • Darwins +892/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2011, 05:26:48 PM »
Sorry to hear all that. We are dealing with the aging/dying parent situation as well. My husband's dad went last year and his mom, who moved in with us,  is declining now. The dementia is a real bummer-- it seems more humane if they go quickly rather than hang on after they lose the personality--so much for the eternal soul.

Remember to do some nice things for yourself and your wife. Take comfort in doing the right thing to the best of your ability and being a good son. That will stay with you.

God does not seem to care any more about his devoted flock than he does about us unbelievers.True words-- if there was a god in charge of this sh!t, he would not be worth worship.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline kaziglu bey

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
  • Darwins +121/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • There is no Big Brother in the sky.
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2011, 05:29:40 PM »
Anfauglir, I am sorry to hear about your losses. I think it takes a great deal of courage to go through what you have, I'm sure it's been difficult. May your persevere on your journey to healing and acceptance.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Online Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12291
  • Darwins +274/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2011, 11:34:25 AM »
My sincerest sympathies, Anf.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline fishjie

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Darwins +12/-0
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2011, 02:19:51 PM »
Condolences to you for your loss.   

Oh and what a crappy thing for your brother in law to do.

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6198
  • Darwins +408/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2011, 08:37:22 AM »
Thanks once again to everyone - you've made me cry, in a good way.

@Gnu - funnily enough, I'm not finding myself angry at all, apart from an unspecific general dissatisfaction with the universe as a whole. 

I've never liked things that stop.  I hate it when my favourite TV series' end, for example.  Theoretically, I should be a prime candidate for religion, as the idea of an afterlife should appeal to me.

Getting old is rubbish.  (can't use the real word, I'm on work PC!)  Your body breaking down, your mind going, no longer being able to do the things you've loved all your life.....  it's a callous and heartless system.  Exactly what I would expect from an impersonal universe.

What I'm not looking forward to is the funeral.  For his sake, for mum's sake, it'll happen at his local church.  Worst bit is I'm making all the funeral arrangements, having to book and organise and discuss things that I have no belief in. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Avascar

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Darwins +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Everything, probably
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2011, 01:02:57 PM »
Hopefully you'll be able to move on, right?

Look at the bright side! *can't find a bright side other than your alive*

Offline Chronos

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 2405
  • Darwins +130/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Born without religion
    • Marking Time
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2011, 02:30:51 PM »
I'm sorry to hear about your sister and parents. Till death do us part applies to the person you marry, but offspring are offspring and they should know their family (unless they are abusive). I find it immoral for your ex-BIL to not visit with the grandkids. Kinda cruel, actually.


John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: My Christian Family
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2011, 02:12:14 PM »
I've never liked things that stop.  I hate it when my favourite TV series' end, for example.  Theoretically, I should be a prime candidate for religion, as the idea of an afterlife should appeal to me.

Getting old is rubbish.  (can't use the real word, I'm on work PC!)  Your body breaking down, your mind going, no longer being able to do the things you've loved all your life.....  it's a callous and heartless system.  Exactly what I would expect from an impersonal universe.

isn't that the pathetic painful truth.  I have to have one of my cats euthanized today.  And I'm screaming inside about how fucking unfair it is and crying my eyes out of course :'(.  But I know it's the right thing to do because there's nothing else that can be done.   The univrse might not care but I do.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/