Author Topic: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?  (Read 2996 times)

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Offline ELOI LAMA SABACHTHANI

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IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« on: November 11, 2011, 11:23:09 AM »
Aren't we all tired of debating on existence of God?
We all know nobody has a rock solid evidence on either case.

Let's start something new.
For the sake of argument, let everyone just assume bible God exists.
Would you repent and accept Jesus as you savior?

Why and why not?
Eloi, atheists don't have a "belief" system.

Offline curiousgirl

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 11:25:48 AM »
I would not, because as I have said in another thread that I started with Bible verses to prove it, Bible God seems pretty cruel. He is loving and kind one moment, then enraged and murderous the next minute (kind of like what an abusive husband sounds like). Anyway, you can check out my other thread for those verses.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline Roq

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 12:15:20 PM »
Would anyone accept a god, unless there was some sweetener, such as some kind of heaven? Moslem's need to be tempted by 100 (or is it only 72?) virgins in order to accept their God, I think I'd take a few less - providing I didn't have to knock over any skyscrapers.   
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 12:16:59 PM by Roq »

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 12:20:54 PM »
Quote
For the sake of argument, let everyone just assume bible God exists.
Would you repent and accept Jesus as you savior?

A billion+ people would reply:

No, I'm a Muslim.

or

No, I'm a Jew.

Quote
Why and why not?
I assume you understand the basic tenets of Judaism and Islam...

« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 12:25:20 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline Historicity

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 12:26:14 PM »
Let's start something new.
For the sake of argument, let everyone just assume bible God exists.
Would you repent and accept Jesus as you savior?
No, I could invent my own version of cherry picking, my own new undocumented assumptions or the next dream I have after praying before bed time.

Like David Koresh, I can decide that I am God.

God has never stepped in to clarify no matter how bad it gets.  An angel with a flaming sword could have arrived over the battlefields of the 30 Years War to indicate the Catholic or the Lutheran side was the true religion but did not.  The show Touched by an Angel shows what ought to be happening if God exists but obviously does not.

Offline Historicity

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 12:27:42 PM »
IF GOD EXISTS, DID HE GIVE YOU A COMMANDMENT TO POST IN ALL CAPS?

Offline Alzael

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 12:57:47 PM »

Why and why not?

Well I could point out that he's a malicious genocidal douchebag. Or that he's racist, sexist, elitist, needlessly brutal, and aggregiously stupid.

But let me just point this out instead.

At several points in the bible god encourages his followers to go out and commit what essentially amounts to the rape of women. Note that he does not rape women himself. He merely holds almost no one accountable for it, does not consider it a bad thing, shows no guilt or remorse at the brutalisation and trauma of the women involved (seeing them only as property), and at certain points actively encourages his followers to commit rape. Yet he never does it himself.

So basically, your god isn't even a murdering sociopathic rapist.

He's a murdering sociopathic rapists' cheerleader.

How utterly pathetic is that?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 01:12:08 PM by Alzael »
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Offline fungusdrool

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2011, 01:18:47 PM »
If god existed, I'd accept him because the alternative is simply too horrible to consider. 

I'd hate myself, but I'd do it.

I'm just too much of a wimp to face infinite, eternal torture.

Online JeffPT

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2011, 01:40:02 PM »
That's not a simple yes or no question.

First of all, if God exists, then he deserves utter contempt and hatred for what he does every single day to humanity.  There is no doubt about that.  While (again assuming he exists) he treats me wonderfully, I believe it would be extraordinarily selfish of me to praise Him while at the same time he treats so many other people like total shit. 

Second, I assume you believe that if God exists, then I assume you are also trying to say that the entire story about Jesus sacrificing himself for all of humanity would also be true.  In that case, Jesus did what any person would do in that situation. Just think about it. If God literally came down and said to you, "Dude, if you allow yourself to be tortured for a day or two and then executed, every single person that ever lived (or will live) will be able to get to go to the ultimate place for all eternity," what would you do?  You'd say hell yes. Do you know of a single person that would wouldn't?  I've said it before... I'd do that for just my kids, let alone all of humanity.  What he did was no big deal.  Plus the fact that Jesus' death was NOT a sacrifice because he literally lost nothing.  He actually gained from his own death.  He got to go back to heaven again. 

If God were real, I would first have to ask him why he had to send Jesus to be executed in the first place when all he had to do was simply forgive everyone and be a good guy.  My acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice would depend on the answer, I guess. But it would have to be really good to counteract the knowledge about God's omnipotence and omniscience.  If God gave me no answer, then I would say God is an ass hole and that he murdered Jesus for no reason at all. 

Again, assuming that the God of the bible is real (which it's not), is there an option for accepting Jesus sacrifice while at the same time thinking God is an ass hole for making it happen?   If I accepted Jesus' sacrifice, could I, at the very same time, hate God and still get to heaven?  Because let's be honest, I'd want to go to heaven for purely selfish reasons, but I would have a very hard time thinking God was good. 

Fun hypothetical.  I'm just glad none of it's true. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Omen

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2011, 01:57:19 PM »
Aren't we all tired of debating on existence of God?

Nope.

Quote
We all know nobody has a rock solid evidence on either case.

The biblical god does not exist, there is a rock solid case against the biblical god.  The only way out of the problem is to redefine or move the goal post as to what is meant when one says 'biblical' god.

Quote
Let's start something new.
For the sake of argument, let everyone just assume bible God exists.

Which interpretation?

Assuming it exists, how do we account for contradictions?

Bible god as in the jewish deity or the christian deity?

Quote
Would you repent

Repent what? How?

Quote
and accept Jesus

How does one 'accept' it?

Quote
as you savior?

Savior? Savior from what?

Quote
Why and why not?

The initial problem is that your cultural superstition is inherently invested in a dogmatic rhetorical language of metaphors that are often no better than platitudes.  They don't convey essential meaning to be understood beyond a simple verbal expression as a sign of someones participation within the rhetoric.  Its so ludicrously at odds with conveying an informed context that it can't even be 'considered' in a way to be understood even when giving the benefit of the doubt.  The dogma of 'belief' for the sake of 'belief' has produced various popularity cults that lack any intellectual depth and meaning.  You're not really asking us if what we would do if said thing existed, you're asking us if we would go through the dogmatic physical mannerisms and verbalisms.   It is little different than superstitious beliefs about tossing salt over your shoulder, not walking underneath a ladder, or avoiding black cats.

If a god exists it exists, if its ideological 'construct' is too nebulous or incoherent to convey a meaningful notion, then all I can do is ask for it to explain.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 02:00:07 PM by Omen »
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Offline fishjie

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2011, 02:19:50 PM »
Let's see, my choice would be burning in hell for an eternity, or spending an eternity in heaven with a douchebag.

i think i'd prefer burning.   

Offline Truth OT

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2011, 02:23:05 PM »
Aren't we all tired of debating on existence of God?
We all know nobody has a rock solid evidence on either case.

Let's start something new.
For the sake of argument, let everyone just assume bible God exists.
Would you repent and accept Jesus as you savior?

Why and why not?

See what you made me do! Got me wasting my time posting at you in a dead thread........Don't jump ship again on me.



When you ask such a question as “If God exists,” it’s necessary to clarify exactly what you mean. I assume you are referring to the God of the Bible, so I’ll answer as if that is in fact the case. But first, we must consider that by accepting God as presented in the books of the Bible, we must first accept the Bible as being true, accurate, and inerrant. If it is not, then its contents cannot be fully trusted and basing anything off of its contents as if it offered a solid foundation proves not only foolish, but problematic in various ways. Furthermore, if God exists, how do we know that the God that exists is in fact the God of the Bible? The point of what I’m getting at is that it is not so much God that is the focus, but rather the Bible that tells of God. I can tell you from experience that virtually no one here believes or accepts that the Bible is in fact the inspired Word of God as is fails, in almost every observably way in being representative of a writing inspired by an immeasurably wise, immeasurably powerful being that wished to communicate clearly and effectively with our species through its pages. In other words, if God were to exist and wished to inspire a book, HE WOULD HAVE DONE BETTER than the Bible.
Now, to your questions……

IF God as described in the scriptures exists I would fear, respect, and have a deep burning desire to question His actions and reasoning as it pertains to the lives and the suffering endured by those who he had not chosen as “vessels of honor” that would inherit eternal life. It seems pointless to me for God to give life to someone in an orphaned state in war torn region where disease, pain, and famine are what makes up the person’s daily routine, and they never get to hear about how to attain salvation or even know that there is something they can be saved from. At the same time I would be grateful, immeasurably so that God created me and allowed me to be of the chosen who’d learn of salvation and the means to attain it. I would definitely accept God’s Anointed King, Jesus, because not doing so would be foolish and suicidal.       

*disclaimer* (I do not believe that the Bible teaches that salvation = Heaven and not receiving salvation = Hell. I believe it teaches that those who are not ultimately saved from the wages of sin will die a 2nd death having no hope of living eternally anywhere, much less Happy Bliss Land.)
1.   What exactly is the way of salvation? What are people able to be saved from specifically? As best I can tell from reading the scriptures old, new, and even non Abrahamic, death is the ultimate fate that one can be saved from. According to the Bible the wages of sin is death, but in Jesus it is possible to attain the gift of eternal life, meaning salvation in the ultimate sense means being gifted with eternal life. But what is the process? That is an area where the Bible is not as clear as a message given from GOD should be. The Christian religion tells us that one must believe in Jesus to be saved, BUT scriptures such as Luke 10:25-29, that are supposed quotes of Jesus himself, do not say as much. According to Jesus in Luke 10 as well as texts like Matthew 25:34-40, he is quoted as saying that receiving everlasting life and a place in his kingdom are awarded based on how one loves and treats God and one’s fellow man explaining that doing good to people equates with doing do to and serving Jesus. Nowhere do those texts even mention faith in Christ as a necessity for salvation and life. Is that what you believe is necessary for salvation and eternal life? Why or why not?

2.   See paragraph above 1.

3.   I’d accept Jesus because he was the king and ruler and if I wished to live eternally within the realm of his kingdom, then what other choice would I have? I’d have love and respect for Jesus as well because according to the scriptures he would have been king whether or not he suffered and made a way for me and mine to have eternal life, yet he choose to suffer anyway. I can appreciate the love and consideration.

Offline fungusdrool

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2011, 02:40:42 PM »
Fun hypothetical.  I'm just glad none of it's true.

Yes.  Good question.  Pointless, but interesting. 

I'm amazed that no one else is biting (perhaps I missed a post?).

So everyone else would accept eternal damnation rather than submit to the most powerful thing in the universe?  And in fact the creator itself?  You would go against the universe itself?  Just to be stubborn?  Frankly, I don't believe it.

I think either the actuality of the consequences have not set in or you're not treating the question seriously.

I remember, concerning waterboarding, when one news reporter was incredulous about "how bad it could be".  He didn't last 10 seconds.  And that's not burning in hell fire without respite for all eternity.

In fact, I don't think its even possible for any human to grasp just how terrifying hell really would be.

If God existed, I believe there would be no dissenters.  ZERO.  It would be impossible.  The whole universe would beat to a single drum. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 02:43:51 PM by fungusdrool »

Offline Alzael

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2011, 02:47:09 PM »

Yes.  Good question.  Pointless, but interesting. 

I'm amazed that no one else is biting (perhaps I missed a post?).

So everyone else would accept eternal damnation rather than submit to the most powerful thing in the universe?  And in fact the creator itself?  You would go against the universe itself?  Just to be stubborn?  Frankly, I don't believe it.


I think you severely lack an understanding about people then, if you really find it that hard to believe that humans are that stubborn.


If God existed, I believe there would be no dissenters.  ZERO.  It would be impossible.  The whole universe would beat to a single drum. 

 

This would be true,in that if god existed it would render free will impossible.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 02:49:39 PM by Alzael »
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

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Offline fungusdrool

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2011, 03:12:17 PM »
I think you severely lack an understanding about people then, if you really find it that hard to believe that humans are that stubborn.

You are correct.  I do not understand people. 

This would be true,in that if god existed it would render free will impossible.

Of course, and a million other reasons God is an impossibility.
In order to play the game, you have to give in a little to the intent of the question.
Otherwise, why hold a hypothetical discussion at all?

Offline Alzael

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2011, 03:28:07 PM »

Of course, and a million other reasons God is an impossibility.
In order to play the game, you have to give in a little to the intent of the question.
Otherwise, why hold a hypothetical discussion at all?

I was not denying the hypothetical intent. Merely pointing out that your statement is true only if there is no free will.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
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Offline Astreja

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2011, 03:47:28 PM »
For the sake of argument, let everyone just assume bible God exists.  Would you repent and accept Jesus as you savior? Why and why not?

Absolutely not.  Not for any reason whatsoever.

I simply can't trust the ethics or motives or veracity of a god that would require acceptance of a proxy blood sacrifice, with the penalty for noncompliance being eternal torture.
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Offline Xero-Kill

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2011, 04:22:26 PM »
If the god described in the bible were proven to exist, I would indeed believe know that he existed... I would NOT however fall to my knees in worship. I would work to oppose him with all my finite power, however pathetic such an attempt might ultimately prove to be. I would rather die fighting such a tyrant than simply drop to me knees in terror at his might and capricious rage. I would rather suffer for eternity for the sake of my own people than to ever kneel before a maniacal, narcissistic, and petulant being as is described in the bible.   
"Our fathers were our models for God. If our fathers bailed, what does that tell you about God? You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen."

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Offline fungusdrool

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2011, 04:24:04 PM »
I simply can't trust the ethics or motives or veracity of a god that would require acceptance of a proxy blood sacrifice, with the penalty for noncompliance being eternal torture.

So you would rather burn for all time than change your mind?

I guess I really don't understand people. 

Offline fungusdrool

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2011, 04:24:53 PM »
If the god described in the bible were proven to exist, I would indeed believe know that he existed... I would NOT however fall to my knees in worship. I would work to oppose him with all my finite power, however pathetic such an attempt might ultimately prove to be. I would rather die fighting such a tyrant than simply drop to me knees in terror at his might and capricious rage. I would rather suffer for eternity for the sake of my own people than to ever kneel before a maniacal, narcissistic, and petulant being as is described in the bible.   

And you would suffer eternally for no reason because you would know that all your efforts were totally pointless.

Offline fishjie

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2011, 04:28:00 PM »
Fun hypothetical.  I'm just glad none of it's true.

Yes.  Good question.  Pointless, but interesting. 

I'm amazed that no one else is biting (perhaps I missed a post?).

So everyone else would accept eternal damnation rather than submit to the most powerful thing in the universe?  And in fact the creator itself?  You would go against the universe itself?  Just to be stubborn?  Frankly, I don't believe it.

I think either the actuality of the consequences have not set in or you're not treating the question seriously.

I remember, concerning waterboarding, when one news reporter was incredulous about "how bad it could be".  He didn't last 10 seconds.  And that's not burning in hell fire without respite for all eternity.

In fact, I don't think its even possible for any human to grasp just how terrifying hell really would be.

If God existed, I believe there would be no dissenters.  ZERO.  It would be impossible.  The whole universe would beat to a single drum.

Well like I said in my response, either choice would be eternal torture.   Either you're in heaven with a giant dbag, or you're burning.    How is heaven better?

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2011, 04:31:28 PM »
So everyone else would accept eternal damnation rather than submit to the most powerful thing in the universe?  And in fact the creator itself?  You would go against the universe itself?  Just to be stubborn?

I'm sorry, but this is just pathetic. You are pathetic. If you would rather submit yourself to the most evil being in all of existence rather than fight against it, you are nothing but a selfish coward, plain and simple. You are no better than the self-described "liberal" theists who don't do anything to stop the fundies from discriminating against and/or killing whomever they damn well please.

This is not about being stubborn. I admit that sometimes I can be stubborn, but this is about fighting against evil. I would gladly go to hell for the rest of eternity if it meant that even a single life form in the universe would be free from the tyranny of such a being.

EDIT: So, to answer the OP: No, I would not. For me to consider worshiping a being it must first have three properties - Omnipotence, omniscience and benevolence. The god of the Bible lacks all three (iron chariots, not knowing where A&E were and killing children for what their parents did).
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 04:33:51 PM by Lucifer »
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Offline fungusdrool

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2011, 04:34:09 PM »
Well like I said in my response, either choice would be eternal torture.   Either you're in heaven with a giant dbag, or you're burning.    How is heaven better?

Seriously?  OK.  Take one of two options: 1) have a conversation with someone you strongly dislike while sitting in a hammock on a beach on a sunny day surrounded by your loved ones sipping your beverage of choice, or 2) hold a lighter under your outstretched hand.

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2011, 04:37:12 PM »
So you would rather burn for all time than change your mind?

FD, when dealing with a hypothetical god that uses threats of torture, there is no guarantee that it won't burn Me anyway just for shits and giggles.  I have nothing to gain by playing along with such a monster.
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Offline fungusdrool

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2011, 04:37:50 PM »
You are pathetic.

Yes I am.  Compared to the most powerful entity in the universe (or to you, apparently).  To not accept that is short sighted.

Offline Omen

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2011, 04:39:42 PM »
So you would rather burn for all time than change your mind?

FD, when dealing with a hypothetical god that uses threats of torture, there is no guarantee that it won't burn Me anyway just for shits and giggles.  I have nothing to gain by playing along with such a monster.

That's a good point.  Its behavior is so erratic anyway that there is no telling when it will condemn you or even why, since it can and does totally make anything up on a whim.  The literal Heavenly Inspired and Divine North Korean State that Hitchens often describes.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 04:42:16 PM by Omen »
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Offline fungusdrool

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2011, 04:41:37 PM »
So you would rather burn for all time than change your mind?

FD, when dealing with a hypothetical god that uses threats of torture, there is no guarantee that it won't burn Me anyway just for shits and giggles.  I have nothing to gain by playing along with such a monster.

I agree it would be a terrible life.  But the rules to get into heaven, or whatever, would be ingrained in us via creationism.  So you would naturally follow them.  If God existed, that means God created the universe, which means everyone would love him.  Perhaps we would not have free will.  I'm OK with that.  Because to choose any other option would be as foolish as the theists in this universe.  What you want or think would no longer matter at all.  You would be a robot.  And yes, you would love the evil bastard. 

Offline Astreja

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2011, 04:46:32 PM »
If God existed, that means God created the universe, which means everyone would love him.

Uh... That's a chain non sequitur, FD.  A god could exist, yet not be the creator of the universe... And I really don't know how you got "everyone would love him" out of that, either.
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Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: IF GOD EXISTS, YOU WOULD ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2011, 04:50:13 PM »
fungusdrool:
Quote
So you would rather burn for all time than change your mind?

I guess I really don't understand people.
It's difficult to see how one can change one's mind in this way.

If I was a good German in Nazi Germany, I can see how I might go along with their madness to a certain extent, through an instinct for self-preservation or whatever - but I don't think I would change my mind about them.

Likewise with God; if I already perceive him in the image of Hitler, you can't suddenly perceive him as the God of Love, not even if your life depended on it.

And an omniscient God would know if you were faking.

So, FungusDrool, you're just as scewed as we are  :).
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 04:52:12 PM by Gnu Ordure »