Author Topic: Question for believers  (Read 1802 times)

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2011, 10:38:42 AM »
Strange set of cooincidence you have there.  It's a good thing that last clause is keeping you free of servitude.  One more odd correlation and you'd have had no choice left.  I mean, you could have wished to find out why Darth Vader wears a mask.

To anwser your question: I vote you wait it out.

Well, I made that last one specifically for the possibility that the other two might come to pass. I wasn't ready to devote the rest of my life to Him so I just bought some time.

However, think about how powerful my testimony will be if I make it past my 300th. Trippy stuff.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2011, 10:41:36 AM »
I was blind too, before I met Christ.

Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances  for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. (1 Thessalonians 5:16-18)

Welcome.

Pray continually for what?  Since God says he'll answer all prayers to him quickly and positively (aka giving what is asked for not something "else"), why haven't you obviously been praying for world peace, manna to fall to the starving, etc?  It hasnt' happened yet and I would expect a Christian to want the same good things I do.

And give thanks when horrible things happen because God hurts people because it's "his will"?  This seems rather sadistic.
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Offline ELOI LAMA SABACHTHANI

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2011, 11:18:25 AM »
Should I wait until my 300th birthday to dedicate the rest of my life or should I just go ahead and start now?
Maybe you should starting thinking about better excuse.
Just think of yourself saying that excuse "I didn't live to 300 years, so I didn't believe in you" in front of God after you die.

Jesus said "tetelestai" (It is finished, debt has been paid in full) on the cross before He died.
So wait no more.
Eloi, atheists don't have a "belief" system.

Offline Energized

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2011, 11:30:44 AM »
I asked this same question on a christian message board recently. I even received some boastful answers from one of The Chosen about god providing Cds, a guitar to start a christian black metal band (?), spaghetti when he was hungry, etc. He told me god does it all the time.

When I asked, if he genuinely believed god had answered his prayers, why he wouldn't pray for the orphans in North Korea, he said that it was likely not in god's will to do that.

My reply of "then he's a monster" didn't go over well.

Odd that god would provide him a guitar and not spare a child from being abused.

E.
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Bringing torment and pain to others.
O damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps it is time to die?'

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Offline velkyn

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2011, 11:37:51 AM »
good points, energized. Welcome to the forum.  It's always odd when Christians are so selfish and arrogant.  "Lookee! God gave me a guitar as I set all nice and cozy in a western world nation.  But oh, God must have wanted that poor boy in Somalia to die of starvation and want his mother to grieve over him. " 

Makes me quite sick.

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Offline fungusdrool

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2011, 12:17:28 PM »
Maybe you should starting thinking about better excuse.

How about: "I'll dedicate my life to you once you show me you exist and are not unimaginably evil"?

Else, immediately following death, ask it why it likes to molest little children via its sanctioned slaves (i.e. priests)?

Offline ELOI LAMA SABACHTHANI

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2011, 02:47:17 PM »
How about: "I'll dedicate my life to you once you show me you exist and are not unimaginably evil"?
How about "You show me faith then I (God)will reveal myself?"
It's you and God one on one match. Hope you win.

Else, immediately following death, ask it why it likes to molest little children via its sanctioned slaves (i.e. priests)?
Terrible strawman fallacy.

Wait, it is not even that. What does child molestation have to do with Christianity?

Are you one of those people that hates black people because OJ Simpson killed his wife? (or not?)
Eloi, atheists don't have a "belief" system.

Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2011, 02:56:10 PM »
Jesus said "tetelestai"...

Well, wadatah, my daimie. The cammietown's a biddie on the panny stai.

Sepatown.

What does child molestation have to do with Christianity?

Off the top of my head, believe it or not, some people consider the handling and the mutilation of a new-born infant's genitals to be, you know, NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR.

I know, I know. Cutting off chunks of baby cock is the most natural, holy thing in the world.  I don't understand the outcry either.

But other than that, you've got the Yahweh character commanding armies to go slaughter everybody at such-and-such a place EXCEPT the virginal little girls, who were to be the spoils of war... Then you've got priests running around raping little boys in the modern age... Child sex slaves called "Catamites" all throughout Christianity's history...

And oh yeah. The fact that the "virgin" Mary character would have been all of 12 or 13 years old when Yahweh raped her with his super ghost sperm from the 5th dimension...

I suppose I could crack the "good" book or google a news article or 12 (thousand) to keep going, but do I really need to?

Now if you're into child KILLING instead of just sexually abusing them... Whoooo BOY. I can write you a list of Christianity-related child death as long as your arm. Both from the storybook AND from real life Christians.

Your cult has one ugly track record when it comes to little kids, home-slice.  :-\

« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 03:15:53 PM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2011, 03:03:28 PM »
How about "You show me faith then I (God)will reveal myself?"
It's you and God one on one match. Hope you win.

funny how God didn't need this prior faith to reveal himself back in the good ol' bible days.  JC himself said that the evidence he supposedly gave, doing miracles was to encourage faith.  One didn't simply have to have blind faith in something.

It seems that it's only now that Christians must find excuses on why this god does nothing since they can find no evidence their god exists. I'm not FD but I know I can win against a imaginary being.   There's no reason to be afraid of something that can't even keep its supposed spokesmen on earth from harming people.  I'm guessing you'll claim "free will" but this fails to explain why this god of yours supposedly used to smite people and doesn't now.   

"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2011, 03:19:18 PM »
Seems to me that expecting someone to have faith before they're a believer is a contradiction in terms.  Kind of like expecting someone to fix a computer before they've ever studied it.

Offline fungusdrool

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2011, 04:38:21 PM »
How about "You show me faith then I (God)will reveal myself?"

Why would God require faith in the first place?
If it wants worshipers why not just make us worship it?
If it wants us to really want to worship it, why doesn't it make us really want to worship it?

Why would it want us to worship it at all?
It is insecure?  Is it vain? 
Does it forget that it's a God and needs lesser beings to remind it of what it is?
What does our worship do for it?

Offline Xero-Kill

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2011, 05:00:15 PM »

 it is basically my contention that ELOI is not really a Christian but a person pretending to be one.

What kind of objective evidence do you have on this one?

Your request for objective evidence is exhibit A. You see, if you were willing to accept objective evidence as proof of anything, then you are not a Christian, and if you are not willing, then you are being disingenuous. Either way you are just playing games. However, since this argument bends the rules of cause and effect I will admit that it is purely a gut reaction... but you, being a Christian and all, should readily accept feelings as proof, so Poe it is!
"Our fathers were our models for God. If our fathers bailed, what does that tell you about God? You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen."

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Offline WasBlind

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2011, 05:04:46 PM »
An answer to prayer does not have to be a mind blowing miracle and often times it is not. There was no way I was gonna get control over myself on my own. "God cannot give us peace and happiness apart from Himself.... There is no such thing." -C.S. Lewis

Offline fungusdrool

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2011, 05:10:05 PM »
There was no way I was gonna get control over myself on my own.

Don't sell yourself short.  You'd be amazed how powerful you can be when you don't assume God did the hard stuff for you.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2011, 05:12:32 PM »
I prayed for deeper understanding of truth and for the ability to intellectual recognize when something that is considered by many as truth, is actually not. In addition, (and I'm dead serious), I prayed for help in discerning whether or not things I had been taught and my faith in God were baseless or based in fact. Thankfully, I got some answers.............. 

Offline fungusdrool

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2011, 05:25:41 PM »
I prayed for deeper understanding of truth and for the ability to intellectual recognize when something that is considered by many as truth, is actually not. In addition, (and I'm dead serious), I prayed for help in discerning whether or not things I had been taught and my faith in God were baseless or based in fact. Thankfully, I got some answers..............

I can imagine the suffering you must have felt.  You essentially prayed to understand that praying does nothing.  That's twisted.  Though I'm glad for you that it all worked out.  It's been a pleasure watching you wake up.

Offline WasBlind

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2011, 05:33:35 PM »
“Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It is merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. But, if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It’s like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London. But if I can’t trust my own thinking, of course I can’t trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God.” C. S. Lewis

Offline Alzael

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2011, 06:29:05 PM »
WasBlind, you would be better served to make your own points. Rather than just relying on the words of others to make your arguments.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline ELOI LAMA SABACHTHANI

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2011, 07:08:37 PM »
Your cult has one ugly track record when it comes to little kids, home-slice.  :-\
Hey watch it!
Maybe your parents or grandparents happen to loot at your computer and see your post.  :police:
Eloi, atheists don't have a "belief" system.

Offline fungusdrool

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2011, 07:09:46 PM »
Also, it's not a good argument.

"nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking" 

Nobody had to.  The thinking brain was selected via evolution.  It's hard to survive in a competitive environment if your brain gives answers as random as spilled milk patterns.

My brain to myself: "Is that a big, hungry tiger over there?"
My unthinking answer: "I like cheese."

What happens next?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 07:12:47 PM by fungusdrool »

Offline fungusdrool

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2011, 07:16:09 PM »
Maybe your parents or grandparents happen to loot at your computer and see your post.  :police:

You might want to turn that argument around and take a long hard look at your religion.

Do you deny that your God is unimaginably evil?

Here's just one reason why: we are finite, imperfect beings.  Yet if we make one mistake (not accepting Jesus) we are doomed for all eternity. 

I'd be embarrassed to have my grandfather find out that I backed that monster.

Offline kardula

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2011, 07:26:09 PM »
What does POE mean?

Poe's Law

If you don't want to follow the link, it is basically my contention that ELOI is not really a Christian but a person pretending to be one. I am calling troll before he drags out a 15 page thread o' shit.

ahhh, gotcha.

Offline ELOI LAMA SABACHTHANI

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2011, 09:01:24 PM »

Do you deny that your God is unimaginably evil?

Here's just one reason why: we are finite, imperfect beings.  Yet if we make one mistake (not accepting Jesus) we are doomed for all eternity. 
I just don't see how you call that (not accepting Jesus) a mistake.

I have heard 'choice or destiny' but certainly NOT a mistake.
What do you think?
Eloi, atheists don't have a "belief" system.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2011, 09:25:25 PM »
Maybe you should starting thinking about better excuse.
Just think of yourself saying that excuse "I didn't live to 300 years, so I didn't believe in you" in front of God after you die.

I confessed my sins and accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior in 1984. As of November 11, 2011 9:27 E.S.T. I have not recanted. I am what you would call a carnal Christian.
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Online Emily

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2011, 10:51:41 PM »
I just don't see how you call that (not accepting Jesus) a mistake.

I have heard 'choice or destiny' but certainly NOT a mistake.
What do you think?

You haven't read you bible, have you. It's definitely a mistake for our souls. If we don't accept Jesus we go to hell. If your god is real then that's the biggest mistake of our souls - not accepting Jesus. Yeah, we have a choice of not accepting Jesus, if you want to call it a choice, but it's actually a scar tactic. No sane, rational and loving being would would give the alternative of not accepting that being eternal hellfire and agony. God has disguised it as a choice but for not accepting to choose him would result in the most horrible fate possible. It's like a psycho who asks a girl out, gets rejected, and in then beats the crap out of her as a result. Or a woman who gets stoned to death for refusing to marry a man against her will. No sane and rational person would find that form of punishment acceptable.

 But with god he says "it's your choice to accept me. Do so if you wish, if not then I wont force you to. But if you don't just know that you burn in hell for eternity." So someone will say, "Oh, I don't want that. I accept you Jesus" without actually thinking about what he or she was told. What kind of sick monster finds that an acceptable consequence.

He created the most horrible place in the afterlife for those who don't accept him. And to him, being an egotistical, irrational and hateful god, he finds it perfectly acceptable regardless of what we did in our lives because of our own mistake and not accepting him as our savior. To god not accepting him is a mistake on our part. God tries to appeal to our fear. And it's our mistake if we don't let him succeed.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 11:08:33 PM by Emily »
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Offline Spit

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2011, 10:56:58 PM »
Can I accept him at the last minute? He gets in the way right now. ;D

Online Emily

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2011, 11:01:07 PM »
Can I accept him at the last minute? He gets in the way right now. ;D

Sure can. A lot of christians love death bed conversions. I mean, even Jesus let the one guy into heaven who died next to him on the cross.

Luke 23:42

"Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

But if you think he gets in the way now, just wait till heaven... All the praising. Arg... It'll get annoying real fast. No wonder there was a revolution.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 11:06:59 PM by Emily »
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline Spit

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2011, 11:15:36 PM »
Can I accept him at the last minute? He gets in the way right now. ;D

Sure can. A lot of christians love death bed conversions. I mean, even Jesus let the one guy into heaven who died next to him on the cross.

Luke 23:42

"Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

But if you think he gets in the way now, just wait till heaven... All the praising. Arg... It'll get annoying real fast. No wonder there was a revolution.
Nice!  ;D

Online Emily

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Re: Question for believers
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2011, 11:27:05 PM »
“...But if I can’t trust my own thinking, of course I can’t trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else.

I hate this quote by C.S. Lewis.

Unlike Christianity, atheism has no sacred text by which we base out thoughts on. We just don't believe in god. I don't have an exact number but I am willing to bet that a lot of atheists become atheists without even reading The God Delusion, or any other book that contains "atheists arguments". Personally speaking I had no idea who Richard Dawkins was when I began to question the existence of god.

 All religions gain followers based on their religious text. No one who has never even heard of Jesus or Allah or any other god one day wakes up and begins to believe in any god. They need to be introduced first, and the only way to get introduced in by arguments for that god in the form of literature or meaningless personal stories. 

C.S. Lewis' "own thinking" is based on what he thinks of the bible, and that's it. He was just too blind to realize that his mind was so polluted with that idea that his god was real based on the arguments he read in his bible to trust his thoughts otherwise.

"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.