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Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #232 on: November 23, 2011, 10:34:21 PM »
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I'm glad to hear that you haven't seen your faith as more valuable than friendship, riley. And that you feel comfortable hanging out here.
Well I didn't say that my faith was not more valuable then my friends. My friends know of my belief and accept the fact that I am a Christian that is not prefect but that tries to learn more about the belief I hold. Some of them think it is a foolish belief but no more foolish than Steve needing to wear his blue socks everytime we play golf. :D I am who I am. My friends are who they are. We kid each other about a lot of things the we believe in. The stupid 2 foot fake turtle Mike has in his back yard. But we are friends. How you can tell a good person is not in their beliefs but by how they treat other that believe different. My Dad told me that when I was 16 and it is one of the things that have stuck with me.
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Understand that friends come and go, but with a precious few you should hold on. The older you get, the more you need the people who knew you when you were young.
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Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
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Offline changeling

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #233 on: November 24, 2011, 06:22:06 AM »
Hey Riley,
Your dad said " How you can tell a good person is not in their beliefs but by how they treat other that believe different. My Dad told me that when I was 16 and it is one of the things that have stuck with me."

Your dad was a pretty smart man.
The level of dumb they have to sell, is only made remotely possible by the level of flocking their sheep are willing to do in the name of rewards for no thought. quote: Kin Hell

"Faith is the enemy of evidence, for when we know the truth, no faith is required." Graybeard

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #234 on: November 24, 2011, 08:39:40 AM »
How you can tell a good person is not in their beliefs but by how they treat other that believe different.

I heartily agree.

How does your god deal with people who do not believe in him, Riley?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #235 on: November 24, 2011, 09:43:59 AM »
Honestly, I have never understood why the thought that we're created makes life more valuable or worth living. Seriously. So we live our lives, we get our reward, but what was the point? Just to get to heaven? I find this life amazing. It's fascinating. I learn something new every day. I don't see why a god is required for us to find value in it.

Oh,I get it. It means your morality is the morality of the universe. There's universal justice and no suffering to help is in vain. Your memories and perception of the universe are unending...if you perceiving the universe does not end...the universe(as you know it) does not end.  It is a very pretty lie....but the pretty aspect does not change the lie aspect.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Traveler

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #236 on: November 24, 2011, 10:25:19 AM »
Honestly, I have never understood why the thought that we're created makes life more valuable or worth living. Seriously. So we live our lives, we get our reward, but what was the point? Just to get to heaven? I find this life amazing. It's fascinating. I learn something new every day. I don't see why a god is required for us to find value in it.

Oh,I get it. It means your morality is the morality of the universe. There's universal justice and no suffering to help is in vain. Your memories and perception of the universe are unending...if you perceiving the universe does not end...the universe(as you know it) does not end.  It is a very pretty lie....but the pretty aspect does not change the lie aspect.

Er. I'm not understanding you. I don't believe we were created. I'm just trying to understand why christians think their view makes for more value. We have one life to live. Let's enjoy it, let's make the most of it, let's help each other and care for each other and do our best to live full lives where every moment counts. Because there's nothing afterwards but worm food. Which is ok. I won't know it. I'll be dead.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #237 on: November 24, 2011, 12:05:45 PM »
How you can tell a good person is not in their beliefs but by how they treat other that believe different.

I heartily agree.

How does your god deal with people who do not believe in him, Riley?
He doesn't deal with them at all. But that is their chose not His. I know you don't believe and that is cool. And don't tell me I am preaching, you ask me I did not bring it up. You did. :laugh: Happy Thanksgiving .
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
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Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #238 on: November 24, 2011, 12:06:45 PM »
Hey Riley,
Your dad said " How you can tell a good person is not in their beliefs but by how they treat other that believe different. My Dad told me that when I was 16 and it is one of the things that have stuck with me."

Your dad was a pretty smart man.
Thank you. I miss him a lot.
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #239 on: November 24, 2011, 10:59:48 PM »
Honestly, I have never understood why the thought that we're created makes life more valuable or worth living. Seriously. So we live our lives, we get our reward, but what was the point? Just to get to heaven? I find this life amazing. It's fascinating. I learn something new every day. I don't see why a god is required for us to find value in it.

Oh,I get it. It means your morality is the morality of the universe. There's universal justice and no suffering to help is in vain. Your memories and perception of the universe are unending...if you perceiving the universe does not end...the universe(as you know it) does not end.  It is a very pretty lie....but the pretty aspect does not change the lie aspect.

Er. I'm not understanding you. I don't believe we were created. I'm just trying to understand why christians think their view makes for more value. We have one life to live. Let's enjoy it, let's make the most of it, let's help each other and care for each other and do our best to live full lives where every moment counts. Because there's nothing afterwards but worm food. Which is ok. I won't know it. I'll be dead.

I am not saying I agree with the mentality, but at a gut, emotional level, provided one doesn't think it through...I get how thinking you are the darling creation of the king/creator of the Universe makes live seem more valuable.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #240 on: November 24, 2011, 11:08:12 PM »
Honestly, I have never understood why the thought that we're created makes life more valuable or worth living. Seriously. So we live our lives, we get our reward, but what was the point? Just to get to heaven? I find this life amazing. It's fascinating. I learn something new every day. I don't see why a god is required for us to find value in it.

Oh,I get it. It means your morality is the morality of the universe. There's universal justice and no suffering to help is in vain. Your memories and perception of the universe are unending...if you perceiving the universe does not end...the universe(as you know it) does not end.  It is a very pretty lie....but the pretty aspect does not change the lie aspect.

Er. I'm not understanding you. I don't believe we were created. I'm just trying to understand why christians think their view makes for more value. We have one life to live. Let's enjoy it, let's make the most of it, let's help each other and care for each other and do our best to live full lives where every moment counts. Because there's nothing afterwards but worm food. Which is ok. I won't know it. I'll be dead.

I am not saying I agree with the mentality, but at a gut, emotional level, provided one doesn't think it through...I get how thinking you are the darling creation of the king/creator of the Universe makes live seem more valuable.
I am not sure if it is this life that is seen as more valuable, I think most are thinking about the after life . I know it is of no importance to a man that does not believe in the after life and why should it. But to one that believes , it is important
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #241 on: November 25, 2011, 04:50:26 AM »
How you can tell a good person is not in their beliefs but by how they treat other that believe different.

I heartily agree.

How does your god deal with people who do not believe in him, Riley?
He doesn't deal with them at all. But that is their chose not His.

Did your god not set the rules?  Did your god not create hell?  THAT is my point. 

Your god COULD make it so that people who do not believe in him, or do not agree with his rules, do NOT suffer for all eternity....for "believing different" to him.  But he doesn't.  As a result of the way he set up the universe, people who "believe different" to him will suffer forever in the most horrific way imaginable.

So...."How you can tell a good person is not in their beliefs but by how they treat other that believe different."  Under those terms, can you "tell" your god is good?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #242 on: November 25, 2011, 10:04:28 AM »
Traveler:
Quote
Quote
Oh,I get it. It means your morality is the morality of the universe. There's universal justice and no suffering to help is in vain. Your memories and perception of the universe are unending...if you perceiving the universe does not end...the universe(as you know it) does not end.  It is a very pretty lie....but the pretty aspect does not change the lie aspect.
Er. I'm not understanding you. I don't believe we were created.

I think that when Hatter used "you" in his post, he meant "someone/anyone", not you personally, Traveler.

I was confused by his post at first, as well.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 10:06:35 AM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline Traveler

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #243 on: November 25, 2011, 10:13:47 AM »
Traveler:
Quote
Quote
Oh,I get it. It means your morality is the morality of the universe. There's universal justice and no suffering to help is in vain. Your memories and perception of the universe are unending...if you perceiving the universe does not end...the universe(as you know it) does not end.  It is a very pretty lie....but the pretty aspect does not change the lie aspect.
Er. I'm not understanding you. I don't believe we were created.

I think that when Hatter used "you" in his post, he meant "someone/anyone", not you personally, Traveler.

I was confused by his post at first, as well.

Thanks, Gnu, I think I finally get it. For some reason I couldn't seem to parse that post at all. Now it makes sense.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #244 on: November 25, 2011, 11:01:49 AM »


He doesn't deal with them at all. But that is their chose not His.

Not entirely. Consider the reason that most people disbelieve in god. Most people disbelieve as a result of the clear lack of evidence that any god exists. God could easily provide this evidence if he wanted to, in fact if the bible is true he used to do so everyday. If god did this we would have obvious evidence of his existence, and then people could still decide whether or not they want to follow him. It's just that they'd be making an informed decision instead of a blind one.

Instead this god deliberately hides himself so that people can't tell whether he exists or not, yet expects everyone to live by his set rules and believe in his existence. Even though they have no way of knowing if what he says is even true or good.

That's a very messed up idea of choice.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #245 on: November 26, 2011, 08:09:51 AM »
Traveler:
Quote
Quote
Oh,I get it. It means your morality is the morality of the universe. There's universal justice and no suffering to help is in vain. Your memories and perception of the universe are unending...if you perceiving the universe does not end...the universe(as you know it) does not end.  It is a very pretty lie....but the pretty aspect does not change the lie aspect.
Er. I'm not understanding you. I don't believe we were created.

I think that when Hatter used "you" in his post, he meant "someone/anyone", not you personally, Traveler.

I was confused by his post at first, as well.

Thanks, Gnu, I think I finally get it. For some reason I couldn't seem to parse that post at all. Now it makes sense.

Now I get the confusion...sorry I tend to use the universal "You" a lot.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #246 on: November 28, 2011, 10:24:35 AM »
He doesn't deal with them at all. But that is their chose not His. I know you don't believe and that is cool. And don't tell me I am preaching, you ask me I did not bring it up. You did. :laugh: Happy Thanksgiving .
well, that’s not quite true is it?  Your god damns people to eternal torture fir not believing in him, isn’t that correct?  And it’s not “their choice” if you believe what the bible says (Romans 9 for one example, JC talking about why he uses parables in the gospels for others).   Considering that your god treats perfectly fine people so badly, people whose only “sin” is not believing in this particular god (in my case by using the brain that this god supposedly gave me and refusing to provide any evidence like it supposedly gave so many others before, Thomas for one) is it okay that I’m damned to eternal torture by your god?  Are you okay with this?  Why or why not?
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Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #247 on: November 28, 2011, 12:46:26 PM »
How you can tell a good person is not in their beliefs but by how they treat other that believe different.

I heartily agree.

How does your god deal with people who do not believe in him, Riley?
He doesn't deal with them at all. But that is their chose not His.

Quote
Did your god not set the rules?  Did your god not create hell? 
  yes he set up rules. Yes God did create hell but hell was not created for humans.

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41).



Quote
Your god COULD make it so that people who do not believe in him, or do not agree with his rules, do NOT suffer for all eternity....for "believing different" to him.  But he doesn't.  As a result of the way he set up the universe, people who "believe different" to him will suffer forever in the most horrific way imaginable
. I guess he could, but he didn't , One way to look at it is pick God, live with God, Pick Satan, live with Satan.

Quote
So...."How you can tell a good person is not in their beliefs but by how they treat other that believe different."  Under those terms, can you "tell" your god is good?
I don't think you understand. There is no way to look at it under those terms. Apples and Oranges. God is not a person.
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #248 on: November 28, 2011, 01:36:10 PM »
I don't think you understand. There is no way to look at it under those terms. Apples and Oranges. God is not a person.

You're right.  God is not a person.  He's not anything.  He's fake. 

But if you'd like to say that your fictional God can't be judged under human terms, what terms would you like to judge him by?  If you say we're comparing apples and oranges, tell us a comparison that would be apples to apples. 

Also, answer this for me... If you were judging God strictly on human terms, would you judge Him to be good? 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #249 on: November 28, 2011, 02:19:36 PM »
Quote
You're right.  God is not a person.  He's not anything.  He's fake. 
in your opinion.
Quote
But if you'd like to say that your fictional God can't be judged under human terms, what terms would you like to judge him by?  If you say we're comparing apples and oranges, tell us a comparison that would be apples to apples. 
I would not even pertend to know what I could compare God to. So I don't know.
Quote
Also, answer this for me... If you were judging God strictly on human terms, would you judge Him to be good?
Strictly on human terms, no, I would have a problem with some of the things that the Bible tells us about him. 
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #250 on: November 28, 2011, 02:43:55 PM »
Strictly on human terms, no, I would have a problem with some of the things that the Bible tells us about him. 
Now tell me, why would you hold a supposed higher being to LOWER moral standards than you would a fellow human? Should said being be....above those standards?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #251 on: November 28, 2011, 03:06:05 PM »
Strictly on human terms, no, I would have a problem with some of the things that the Bible tells us about him. 
Now tell me, why would you hold a supposed higher being to LOWER moral standards than you would a fellow human? Should said being be....above those standards?
I agree, If I knew what the end result was , but I don't, So I can only hold humans to the moral standard that I have learned from humans. When I was a kid I had no ideal why I got in trouble for not brushing my teeth. At the time I could not have known the end result. I know you have heard this example before and will more than likely rip it up. But faith is just that , faith. I have faith that what He does it right. I wish I could give a stronger reason, but I am unable to.
I just put this in a personal message to someone and I feel that is kinda fits here also.


We think having faith means being convinced God exists in the same way we are convinced a chair exists. People who cannot be completely convinced of God’s existence think faith is impossible for them. Not so. People who doubt can have great faith because faith is something you do, not something you think. In fact, the greater your doubt the more heroic your faith. (I read this somewhere, not sure where) And believe me I have lots of doubt. But just because I do not understand something does not mean I should or would just stop searching.

Here is a quote that I have always liked,

To believe in God or in a guiding force because someone tells you to is the height of stupidity. We are given senses to receive our information within. With our own eyes we see, and with our own skin we feel. With our intelligence, it is intended that we understand. But each person must puzzle it out for himself or herself.
(Sophy Burnham)


Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #252 on: November 28, 2011, 03:25:53 PM »
Strictly on human terms, no, I would have a problem with some of the things that the Bible tells us about him. 
Now tell me, why would you hold a supposed higher being to LOWER moral standards than you would a fellow human? Should said being be....above those standards?
I agree, If I knew what the end result was , but I don't, So I can only hold humans to the moral standard that I have learned from humans. When I was a kid I had no ideal why I got in trouble for not brushing my teeth. At the time I could not have known the end result. I know you have heard this example before and will more than likely rip it up. But faith is just that , faith. I have faith that what He does it right. I wish I could give a stronger reason, but I am unable to.
I just put this in a personal message to someone and I feel that is kinda fits here also.


We think having faith means being convinced God exists in the same way we are convinced a chair exists. People who cannot be completely convinced of God’s existence think faith is impossible for them. Not so. People who doubt can have great faith because faith is something you do, not something you think. In fact, the greater your doubt the more heroic your faith. (I read this somewhere, not sure where) And believe me I have lots of doubt. But just because I do not understand something does not mean I should or would just stop searching.

Here is a quote that I have always liked,

To believe in God or in a guiding force because someone tells you to is the height of stupidity. We are given senses to receive our information within. With our own eyes we see, and with our own skin we feel. With our intelligence, it is intended that we understand. But each person must puzzle it out for himself or herself.
(Sophy Burnham)


Why is credulity, and faith is just credulity by a warm and fuzzy name, a virtue? If you don't apply skepticism to tales of the fantastical, you will be duped and deluded. You see it in others all the time, they had faith the some charismatic cult leader would not lead them wrong.

Faith leads to stupid decisions.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #253 on: November 28, 2011, 03:38:09 PM »
I can somewhat agree with that if people blindly follow what they have faith in. but by having some doubts they can keep in check what their true faith is. You are right that a lot of people have been fooled by someone taking one's faith and twisting it just a little to get them off  track. But that would work on any belief. I am not saying that I have all of the answers , Hell a lot of the Doubts I have, I have voiced here on this forum. And because of it I feel more informed then before I came here. Some things I thought I knew for sure, I have been shown that I had been misinformed . That is why searching is so very important, The problem comes when someone believes they have all of the answers and stops searching. Don't you agree?
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #254 on: November 28, 2011, 03:48:00 PM »
Why is religion so heavily based on feelings? God belief makes people feel secure, blessed, loved, happy, important, special, connected to something higher. But feelings are misleading. You can't rely on feelings over knowledge and facts to give you an accurate fix on reality. Especially when the feelings are telling you the opposite of what the evidence tells you.

Common example: a scary movie makes us feel frightened, even though there is nothing really dangerous. Our brains have to override the feeling that there is a monster in front of us and we should run away!

Another example: you feel that someone loves you, but it is really a con man/woman out to steal your bank account. You have to use your brain to realize that someone is going through your financial info when you aren't home, and it can only be your sweet babboo!

A last example: a drug like cocaine makes you feel wonderful, but is actually destroying your body, brain and relationships. Your friends and family don't want you around anymore, esp. when you are feeling absolutely fantastic!
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #255 on: November 28, 2011, 03:49:08 PM »
I can somewhat agree with that if people blindly follow what they have faith in. but by having some doubts they can keep in check what their true faith is. You are right that a lot of people have been fooled by someone taking one's faith and twisting it just a little to get them off  track. But that would work on any belief. I am not saying that I have all of the answers , Hell a lot of the Doubts I have, I have voiced here on this forum. And because of it I feel more informed then before I came here. Some things I thought I knew for sure, I have been shown that I had been misinformed . That is why searching is so very important, The problem comes when someone believes they have all of the answers and stops searching. Don't you agree?

There have been billions of people on this planet. There have been hundreds of thousands of things written. We cannot understand it all, it just isn't possible. We know some things that have been written are false, people lie hallucinate, exaggerate, mistranslate, etc.

So how do we separate the false from the true?

We look to our own eyes, our own senses, our own memories. We know that these too, can be faulty, but we start there. We see things that are true regardless of the observer, regardless of the culture, regardless of wether a person has faith, or no faith. We treat these things as true.

When someone makes a grandiose, fantastical, or magical claim, we treat it with skepticism. Simply put, if a claim falls outside of what we see and hear, what is repeated throughtout the ages without change in form....chances are it is in some way false. When it is explained in a manner that matches the truths, the things  we know, shows evidence, we can then accept that, yes, this thing that seemed fantastical at first, is true.

But not before, because making decisions based on falsehoods is just plain stupid.

I don't think I have all the answers, I just have a method of handling the information being thrown at me.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #256 on: November 28, 2011, 03:52:48 PM »
You again are correct. The only thing we can not agree on at this time is what is and what is not falsehoods. Which is why I am searching.
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Offline velkyn

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #257 on: November 28, 2011, 03:58:17 PM »
Riley,  I have a question, why do you think that this god of yours does anything “right”?  We can see repeatedly in the bible where it fails constantly.  All I can guess is that you ‘hope’ it gets something right, against all evidence, even from your supposed holy book that is the basis of your faith. 

People feel a lot of things that are wrong.   Other people feel the same and feel validated and that can start some horrible things.  I much prefer depending on evidence and fact and not my fallible brain’s feelings.  There are people who will never understand much of anything and to delude oneself into some idea that they are “intended” to understand is purely dangerous. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #258 on: November 28, 2011, 04:00:10 PM »
You again are correct. The only thing we can not agree on at this time is what is and what is not falsehoods. Which is why I am searching.

Ok, do you search for the truth of the interference of the god Ares in the Tojan war?

Do you search for Baphomet?

Do you search how the universe in being carried on the back of a tortoise?

Do you search for the eternal Ba in the light of Osirus?

Do you search for love through the power of Erzuli?

Or do you just apply a different standard to these stories, as opposed to the ones you grew up with?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline riley2112

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #259 on: November 28, 2011, 04:23:27 PM »
once I feel I have this all thought out , you guys throw things at me that I can not deny or just blow off. I really need to give this some thought.  Let me think this out and see where my mind falls.  :-\
Most people think they know what they know. The problem starts by not knowing what you don't know. You know?  (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence)   (Albert Einstein)One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men can answer in an hour.
--Nikolai Lenin

Offline kardula

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Re: Question for Christians..and whoever else
« Reply #260 on: November 28, 2011, 04:46:02 PM »
the way that it was taught to me when I was younger was that everyone will get a chance to see god when they die, at that point in time they can either accept him, or deny him and that will determine whether they got to heaven or hell. Not sure if there's any scripture references to this or not, it's just what the pastor taught us.