Author Topic: What's the point of marriage?  (Read 3274 times)

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Online One Above All

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What's the point of marriage?
« on: October 28, 2011, 02:47:55 AM »
I'm looking for non-religious answers, but if you want to give religious answers that's fine too.
This is not about gay marriage or anything like that, I'm talking about marriage in general - two people[1] getting married.

I've never understood why people want to get married. I've heard many people say that it signifies the desire to stay with someone forever, but, quite frankly, I believe that if someone doesn't believe I want to stay with them forever just from me saying "I want to be with you forever", they already have trust issues that will just get worse with marriage.

IMO, marriage is just something that makes it harder for people to break up. Emotionally, I see no reason to get married.
 1. Regardless of the gender.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2011, 03:27:39 AM »


There are enough downright bastards on this planet already without you attacking the wonderful and holy institution of marriage Lucifer


I'm looking for non-religious answers, but if you want to give religious answers that's fine too.
This is not about gay marriage or anything like that, I'm talking about marriage in general - two people[1] getting married.

I've never understood why people want to get married. I've heard many people say that it signifies the desire to stay with someone forever, but, quite frankly, I believe that if someone doesn't believe I want to stay with them forever just from me saying "I want to be with you forever", they already have trust issues that will just get worse with marriage.
 1. Regardless of the gender.

It could be a gift to the conservative parents even though one may not see any "special' point to it.

Quote
IMO, marriage is just something that makes it harder for people to break up.

Perhaps you may have touched on another partial answer. I'm not fighting this corner at all, but perhaps that "glue" action can serve positively at times.  People do get over their negative moments and live long and happy lives together afterward. Other marriages are living hell.

I cannot really see much point other than the public statement perhaps.



....and the loot,    .........mustn't forget the loot.


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all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Online One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2011, 03:38:19 AM »
There are enough downright bastards on this planet already without you attacking the wonderful and holy institution of marriage Lucifer

I don't understand what you mean by the part I put in bold so I'll just say that I'm not saying people shouldn't get married. Hell, get married all you want. I couldn't care less. I was just looking for a reason I might consider reasonable.

It could be a gift to the conservative parents even though one may not see any "special' point to it.

Maybe, dunno about that.

Perhaps you may have touched on another partial answer. I'm not fighting this corner at all, but perhaps that "glue" action can serve positively at times.  People do get over their negative moments and live long and happy lives together afterward. Other marriages are living hell.

Everything you mentioned can be achieved without marriage. That's why I think marriage is pointless.

I cannot really see much point other than the public statement perhaps.

That's not a good reason, IMO.

....and the loot,    .........mustn't forget the loot.

I don't understand what you mean by this.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2011, 03:51:29 AM »
There are enough downright bastards on this planet already without you attacking the wonderful and holy institution of marriage Lucifer
I don't understand what you mean by the part I put in bold so I'll just say that I'm not saying people shouldn't get married. Hell, get married all you want. I couldn't care less. I was just looking for a reason I might consider reasonable.
Bastard used to mean (I believe) born out of wedlock (born to an unmarried mother) ....therefore by decontructing "marriage" you will create more bastards  (a poor joke made worse by having to explain it). :-[

Quote
It could be a gift to the conservative parents even though one may not see any "special' point to it.

Maybe, dunno about that.
Mate I am not really pushing any of these ideas, I am just throwing up possibles...

Quote
Perhaps you may have touched on another partial answer. I'm not fighting this corner at all, but perhaps that "glue" action can serve positively at times.  People do get over their negative moments and live long and happy lives together afterward. Other marriages are living hell.

Everything you mentioned can be achieved without marriage. That's why I think marriage is pointless.

The only point I am making is perhaps that "harder to break up" aspect may have saved the occasional relationship worth saving that would've ceased to exist if the marriage hadn't been there glueing them together.


[
Quote
quote author=kin hell link=topic=20481.msg452516#msg452516 date=1319790459]
I cannot really see much point other than the public statement perhaps.

That's not a good reason, IMO.[/quote]
I'm not saying it is a good reason, I am just answering your threads title question.


Quote
....and the loot,    .........mustn't forget the loot.

I don't understand what you mean by this.
[/quote]

...........Wedding presents and wedding gifts of cash are the loot.
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Online One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2011, 03:57:59 AM »
Bastard used to mean (I believe) born out of wedlock (born to an unmarried mother) ....therefore by decontructing "marriage" you will create more bastards  (a poor joke made worse by having to explain it). :-[

Yeah, I know what bastard used to mean, but I didn't expect it to be a joke.

Mate I am not really pushing any of these ideas, I am just throwing up possibles...

And I agree that it's a possibility.

The only point I am making is perhaps that "harder to break up" aspect may have saved the occasional relationship worth saving that would've ceased to exist if the marriage hadn't been there glueing them together.

The reverse might also be true - relationships that wouldn't have worked out that didn't cease to exist for a long time because of marriage.

I'm not saying it is a good reason, I am just answering your threads title question.

Alright.

...........Wedding presents and wedding gifts of cash are the loot.

I forgot about those.
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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2011, 05:02:34 AM »
The point of marriage is apparently to declare one's love for another person to the world.

Here is what I think of marriage:
(People on the street)
Married guy: "I love this girl!"
Some guy on the street: "Who cares?!"
Married guy: "ME!"
Some guy: "Well I don't wanna know!"

In other words, I think marriage is pointless. If people want to tell people they love each other and prove it, they don't need to get married. By what I have saw in humanity, marriage is a way to ruin someone else's life.
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Online One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 05:15:40 AM »
<snip>
In other words, I think marriage is pointless. If people want to tell people they love each other and prove it, they don't need to get married.

Agreed.

By what I have saw in humanity, marriage is a way to ruin someone else's life.

Dunno about this.
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Offline jetson

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 05:50:53 AM »
It has morphed over time to become an institution that is used even by the government to recognize a partnership.  In the end, it is indeed pointless, and truly has little to do with love, or commitment.  It is probably a by product of fear...our intelligence is so high among mammals, that we actually fear the idea of losing a mate to another, so we decided to socialize the concept of monogamy, and add legalities to make it difficult for the mating game to be natural.

WTF?  Did I just write that?

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2011, 05:56:10 AM »
It has morphed over time to become an institution that is used even by the government to recognize a partnership.

I always thought that was the original purpose of marriage, not what it morphed into.

In the end, it is indeed pointless, and truly has little to do with love, or commitment.

The problem is that "little". If there is one good reason to get married and my partner wants to, I will. If there's no good reason, I won't.

It is probably a by product of fear...our intelligence is so high among mammals, that we actually fear the idea of losing a mate to another, so we decided to socialize the concept of monogamy, and add legalities to make it difficult for the mating game to be natural.

QFFT[1].

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2011, 05:58:05 AM »
I suspect that the purpose of marriage originally was to mark a woman as the exclusive property of one particular man to show who was right and who was wrong if she was caught in bed with someone. This gave some certainty (not 100%) over the parentage of any child and subsequent inheritance rights.

Back in the day, marriage was a simple contract; the woman was bought from the father and became the man's (we still see it in the verb usage - a woman is married to a man but a man marries a woman.) The essence had more or less been that this was done in public, so no one was left in doubt as to whose woman she was. Moreover, a man became  entirely responsible for the actions of his wife - her debts, crimes and general behaviour. So it was important that everyone knew who the owner was[1].Compare this to owning a dog or a horse today.

With Christianity, the church felt it ought to become involved and issue blessings - though why this was necessary when God's approval to the institution was already given in the Bible, I don't know; perhaps a double check that fornication wasn't going on. Anyway, it was jobs and money for the priests.

In UK, in the 19th Century, massive complications arose over people who had entered into common-law marriages in the colonies - were they married or not? - as both had agreed to marriage but there had often been no vicars about. Once this was sorted out, the law found itself having granted rights to those who were married.  As this was an easy way to control taxation and two people at once, distinctions started to be made for the married and unmarried. One small advance was that it became possible to marry outside of the church.

The 20th century brought more of this particularly in inheritance taxation rights. We have now reached a stage where there are two classes of person, married and unmarried, for taxation, welfare benefit, pension rights, responsibility for children, etc., and a slew of other rights and duties. Marriage seems to have embedded itself in the law.

For these reasons it may be taken as important to have on record who is married to whom. Obviously, if you have not told anyone you are married to X, then you die, nothing prevents a previous partner appearing and saying, "He was married to me before he took up with her! His $millions are mine!"

For the support of any children, or where one partner gives up a lucrative career, partnership responsibilities have to be made with a view to their being "for life." If it were to be replaced, and I would agree that it could be - it should only be replaced by a contract that made the making and breaking of this sort of partnership a matter of recorded public knowledge so that responsibilities that came from the partnership were recognised as being the partners and not the state's.

 1. I remember the law changing in the 1960s in the UK; up ntil that time a woman could not enter into a credit agreement without the guarrantee of her husband or other responsible male
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Offline Emily

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2011, 01:08:55 AM »
Marriage is kind of dumb. I've been married for a little over a year and a half with someone who I lived with for over a decade. He is on my health insurance because his job doesn't give him anything. That's about it, though. The insurance. Married life is just like when we were living sin, except I made him my property by making him take my last name. If my husband and I do end up breaking up and getting a divorce then it's more money out of both our pockets, when before we were married and living together I kicked him on my house for a month or so without breaking either of our bank accounts.

Marriage and weddings and anniversaries  are pretty pointless. There's no need for a special ceremony to declare you love for someone.  My mom told me my wedding would be memorable. All I remember was having to write a crap load of thank you cards a people who I hardly ever see for a bunch of gifts I ended up returning anyways. It was more trouble than it was worth.

I cannot really see much point other than the public statement perhaps.

I don't really know about this. how many times do you walk through the supermarket and and look at a man or woman and say, "hmmm, I wonder if they are married". If anyone does think that then they are probably creepers. Why make such a declaration to a public that you hardly even know, and most probably don
t care about anyways.
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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2011, 01:29:07 AM »
<snip>

Thanks for the history lesson. :)

Marriage is kind of dumb.
<snip>

Agreed.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2011, 09:21:39 AM »
Having contemplated marriage with a woman as an atheist, we considered it a means of definitely communicating our intentions as a couple to everyone we know (including each other).  It's saying to everyone, "yes, we're serious, and we intend to make this last".[1]

It's similar to declaring ourselves to be a couple prior to that.  Why bother considering ourselves to be a couple at all?  Well, we like to know where we stand, and others who know and care about us like to know where we stand, too.  Becoming a couple communicates that.  Getting married does, too.
 1. Whether or not that actually ends up happening is beside the point.
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Online One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2011, 11:29:41 AM »
Having contemplated marriage with a woman as an atheist, we considered it a means of definitely communicating our intentions as a couple to everyone we know (including each other).
<snip>

Having contemplated marriage as both a theist and an atheist, I see no reason why a simple "I want this to last forever" isn't enough.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2011, 12:21:03 PM »
It is a legally binding contract. Like any other business transaction. Think of employment contracts. Two parties are agreeing to a contract with certain rights and conditions. I think the primary purpose is for reasons of lineage. Inheritances.


If you do not plan to raise children or if you have no concerns for continuing your family name then there is no point to get married. However, if you have designs to create a family dynasty[1] then you NEED to have legal contracts so others can't lay claim to your stake.
 1. Rockefeller, Kennedy, Bush, Rothschild, Forbes etc.
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2011, 12:21:39 PM »
Most fundementally and basically I'd say marriage's initial point was to function as an institution through a man could select and designate a woman or women that would insure that his seed/genes are passed to the next generation and survive. From the female perspecive it likely was a mechanism that because of her value as as "seed carrier," insured her livelihood and protection by the man that selected her as a mate. It definately seems likely that it had patriarchial roots, but in time has been able to benefit both parties and in many ways society in general as it has shown to have a stabalizing and positive effect on children spawn from and reared in it.
From a logical standpoint and ignoring the legal ramafications, unless someone is planning on procreating, then marriage has less of a point and the point of it should be determined and valued on a case by case basis.

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2011, 12:31:50 PM »
<snip>
However, if you have designs to create a family dynasty[1] then you NEED to have legal contracts so others can't lay claim to your stake.
 1. Rockefeller, Kennedy, Bush, Rothschild, Forbes etc.

Now this seems like a fairly good reason (compared to the rest of them anyway) to get married.

<snip>
From a logical standpoint and ignoring the legal ramafications, unless someone is planning on procreating, then marriage has less of a point and the point of it should be determined and valued on a case by case basis.

I can procreate without getting married. A lot of people do.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2011, 05:44:34 PM »
Having contemplated marriage with a woman as an atheist, we considered it a means of definitely communicating our intentions as a couple to everyone we know (including each other).
<snip>

Having contemplated marriage as both a theist and an atheist, I see no reason why a simple "I want this to last forever" isn't enough.

This must be why a single instance of reciprocated "I love you" should suffice for the duration of an entire relationship.  Right?
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Offline Nick

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2011, 06:00:16 PM »
Control, money, power...kind of like religion.
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Offline pingnak

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2011, 09:06:34 PM »
In the context of reproduction, it helps weed out inbreeding a bit.  After all, if both families try to get on the same side of the aisle at the wedding, you know there's probably a 'problem'.  It gives the groom's and bride's families a straight-forward way to look at each other and see relatively unfamiliar faces, not all cousins and nieces and nephews and aunts and uncles and whatnot.


Ceremonially locking down 'ownership' of a wife (or another wife, since polygamy is a very biblical thing which modern Christians have taken to hating, counter to biblical teachings) is also a useful function. 

Sticking a ring on the 'taken' ones reduces (somewhat) the fighting over mates.

What Truth OT, Graybeard, jaybwell32 say, too.

A contract.  Binding.  Protect both.  Woman taken care of, seed that knocks her up will be man's.  Ook.  Property and inheritance.

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2011, 01:22:45 AM »
This must be why a single instance of reciprocated "I love you" should suffice for the duration of an entire relationship.  Right?

I see your point, but disagree with it. The problem here is that I will mean it if I say "I love you", but getting married will have no (emotional) meaning whatsoever.

Ceremonially locking down 'ownership' of a wife (or another wife, since polygamy is a very biblical thing which modern Christians have taken to hating, counter to biblical teachings) is also a useful function.

I really don't get what's the problem with polygamy if all parties involved are OK with it.

Sticking a ring on the 'taken' ones reduces (somewhat) the fighting over mates.

The rings can be worn without an actual marriage... I think.

Protect both.  Woman taken care of, seed that knocks her up will be man's.  Ook.  Property and inheritance.

I'm 99% sure I can do all of those without getting married.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2011, 03:55:43 AM »


I really don't get what's the problem with polygamy if all parties involved are OK with it.



Agreed. 
But having tried the unmarried version of multiple female partners living with me at the one time, let me tell you it's great while it's good, but that is one awkward flywheel to get balanced......

..............and when it runs amok       
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Online One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2011, 04:02:08 AM »
Agreed. 
But having tried the unmarried version of multiple female partners living with me at the one time, let me tell you it's great while it's good, but that is one awkward flywheel to get balanced......

..............and when it runs amok       

That's one of the reasons why I'd never try something like that. :P
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2011, 08:48:56 AM »
This must be why a single instance of reciprocated "I love you" should suffice for the duration of an entire relationship.  Right?

I see your point, but disagree with it. The problem here is that I will mean it if I say "I love you", but getting married will have no (emotional) meaning whatsoever.

That's a statement about yourself, rather than a statement about marriage.  I thought you were asking about the point of marriage in a broader social context, rather than in the context of your own personal life.

Certainly, if marriage would express nothing on your part, then it's useless/pointless - to you.  But are you only asking about what the point of marriage is to you?  If so, then that's an odd question to post to a forum.  Presumably you know the answer to that question before asking it.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 08:51:12 AM by Azdgari »
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Online One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2011, 08:58:37 AM »
That's a statement about yourself, rather than a statement about marriage.  I thought you were asking about the point of marriage in a broader social context, rather than in the context of your own personal life.

Right. Well then, I still disagree with you. Getting married is one single action. It's the same as saying "I love you" once. It should have the same effect. I cannot understand why people think it's different.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2011, 10:01:14 AM »
Agreed. 
But having tried the unmarried version of multiple female partners living with me at the one time, let me tell you it's great while it's good, but that is one awkward flywheel to get balanced......

..............and when it runs amok     

You ain't kidding. No matter how open minded people *think* they are, they are still subject to their emotions.
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Online One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2011, 10:05:15 AM »
You ain't kidding. No matter how open minded people *think* they are, they are still subject to their emotions.

That's a problem of people underestimating their own emotions, not close mindedness. For example, I approve of polygamy but I know I wouldn't be able to deal with it if one or more of my partners had other partners themselves.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2011, 12:35:50 PM »
Right. Well then, I still disagree with you. Getting married is one single action. It's the same as saying "I love you" once. It should have the same effect. I cannot understand why people think it's different.

It's more similar than you give it credit for.  It's an augmented, public, celebratory declaration of "I love you".  The reasoning that says that such a declaration is un-necessary is the same reasoning that says that every "I love you" beyond the first is un-necessary.

Keep in mind the "public" part.  You suggest a mere statement of "I want to be with you the rest of my life" in lieu of marriage.  What means of distributing this message among one's peers do you suggest, such that it can take the place of a wedding celebration?

Does "I want to be with <partner> forever" posted on one's Facebook wall, end up having the same effect as a full wedding celebration?
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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2011, 12:42:58 PM »
It's more similar than you give it credit for.  It's an augmented, public, celebratory declaration of "I love you".  The reasoning that says that such a declaration is un-necessary is the same reasoning that says that every "I love you" beyond the first is un-necessary.

So basically it's "I love you" with fireworks. Kinda like meaningful sex.

Keep in mind the "public" part.  You suggest a mere statement of "I want to be with you the rest of my life" in lieu of marriage.  What means of distributing this message among one's peers do you suggest, such that it can take the place of a wedding celebration?

Getting arrested for having sex in public is a good one. However, I see no point in having to distribute any message that isn't relevant to the people I'm distributing it to. If people are curious, they will ask on their own.

Does "I want to be with <partner> forever" posted on one's Facebook wall, end up having the same effect as a full wedding celebration?

No idea. I've never used Facebook (nor do I feel anything for marriage), though some people do take it pretty seriously.
My names are many, yet I am One.
-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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