Author Topic: What's the point of marriage?  (Read 3293 times)

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Offline Traveler

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2011, 10:55:02 PM »
Just celebrated our 25th anniversary, and looking forward to the next 25.  Marage isn't for everyone (obviously), but I consider myself one of the fortunate that it is.  I'd say uncompromising frindship (love), respect, and trust are what work for us. We're best friends, plain and simple.  Sounds corny, and it is.

Awww, that's so sweet.  :)
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #59 on: November 18, 2011, 09:49:07 AM »
Graybeard, I think abolishing marriage is too extreme. I actually enjoy marriage.
Marriage of itself is an intangible concept.

Let's for one moment assume that the person who married you, etc,, was in fact an escaped inmate from a local asylum and you and your partner are not actually married - what difference would it make to your relationship?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline curiousgirl

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #60 on: November 18, 2011, 10:36:13 AM »
Graybeard, marriage is what the adults (children do not have the mental capacity to be in a marriage, even though some places in the world advocate that) involved make of it. Polygamists in the US are not legally married, yet they call themselves husband and wives. In most of the US, gays are not allowed to marry, but I would accept if they called each other husbands/wives.

So if it turns out my hubby is a guy from an asylum (LOL) then he is still my hubby. We are adults who took vows to be married, so I would see us as married even if it was not legal. It would be more than a relationship because we made the ultimate commitment.

The legality is just part of it, for name changes, tax purposes, property sharing (community property), etc. This part certainly helps (especially with taxes), so it makes me upset that the gay community is mostly denied these rights. The government sometimes allows them to be registered domestic partners, but why not allow them to be married? They, as well as many heterosexuals, value marriage strongly, so it should not be abolished.

Also, a concept being intangible does not make it any less real to people. Love, hate, joy, truth, freedom, etc are all intangible, yet people value them strongly and will even die for them in some cases.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #61 on: November 18, 2011, 11:01:11 AM »
You misunderstood, perhaps I as not clear - I'm not suggesting that either you or your husband are defective but the person conducting the ceremony was not authorised to do so and did it wrongly, thus you would not be married.

There is an excellent play (and 2 films), When We Are Married http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283135/ in which this happens - well worth seeing.

Quote
We are adults who took vows to be married, so I would see us as married even if it was not legal.
I think this is the point. You agree that merely because you went through a ceremony, it makes no difference to your regard for each other. Thus we can say that the ceremony (and the status that followed) is irrelevant.

To put it in logical terms Relationship = (Relationship + Ceremony and Status) - therefore Ceremony and Status = 0.

You then say that homosexuals might like the same status. But, as you see, the status "married" is illusory and no different with or without marriage.

I have previously covered the legal/property/children side of marriage and supposed that some official recognition of responsibility would be in order. This could be in place whether your partner were male or female. Indeed there is Civil Registration that is to all intents just the same.

So what is it about marriage? Is it just the name? Does it really have a meaning itself? If it does, what is it?

You speak of love, joy, freedom. and you compare this with the concept of marriage. If you were standing in the middle of the desert, it is likely that you could appreciate "love, joy, freedom, etc" and describe the sensation. You simply cannot do that with "marriage".

There were parts of the world where if your parents say you are married you are married. Would you think of such a couple as "married."? Would you be married if you simply had said to your husband, "Let's call ourselves married."?

Also, a concept being intangible does not make it any less real to people. The what is this thing called 'marriage'? How does it differ from 2 people agreeing to call themselves married? And what would be bad about that?

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline curiousgirl

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2011, 11:10:23 AM »
To put it in logical terms Relationship = (Relationship + Ceremony and Status) - therefore Ceremony and Status = 0.

You then say that homosexuals might like the same status. But, as you see, the status "married" is illusory and no different with or without marriage.

GB, I can't agree with you completely. The nature of human relationships is subjective. While some may see a relationship as the equation that you posted above, others would see the ceremony and status as a huge emotional boost to the relationship (as something extra), thus the relationship is not what it was before.

I was talking about marriage with this little old lady the other day. Like me, she married pretty young, and the ceremony and status of marriage made her relationship more serious and intense. In fact, it changed the relationship in such a serious way that her friends took bets on how long her marriage would last, the longest bet being for 6 months. She has been married for over 50 years, and is proud of that. Her marriage was very important to the relationship.

I have previously covered the legal/property/children side of marriage and supposed that some official recognition of responsibility would be in order. This could be in place whether your partner were male or female. Indeed there is Civil Registration that is to all intents just the same.

I think it would be way easier to just keep the current legal rights associated with marriage. If marriage were abolished, there would be an uproar, perhaps even a revolution. Many view legal marriage as a right that they associate with their freedom. I think one can have "marriage," without the legal aspect, but many would disagree with me because they view it as an issue of equality. Like I said before, if my marriage was somehow null and void legally, I would still see myself as married because my hubby and I took vows and had a ceremony. There are people (and I completely understand why they feel this way) who are upset that they are denied the legal aspect of it, though, because they notice that there are others who will not accept their marriage unless it is legal.


So what is it about marriage? Is it just the name? Does it really have a meaning itself? If it does, what is it?

Different people view it differently. I see it as an ultimate, lifelong commitment with a ceremony that involves vows that the couple agree to.

You speak of love, joy, freedom. and you compare this with the concept of marriage. If you were standing in the middle of the desert, it is likely that you could appreciate "love, joy, freedom, etc" and describe the sensation. You simply cannot do that with "marriage".

True, but you would not feel the sensation of “citizenship” either, yet you would still have it in some country.

If I were alone in a desert, I would not be actively participating in “motherhood,” but I would still be a mother (whether I gave birth or adopted my child), which is important to me. Same thing with marriage; I would not be experiencing it in the desert, but I would still be a wife (which would mean more to me than being a girlfriend), which is important to me.

There were parts of the world where if your parents say you are married you are married. Would you think of such a couple as "married."? Would you be married if you simply had said to your husband, "Let's call ourselves married."?

I think marriage involves two (or more for polygamy) consenting adults.

As for the second question, I think marriage involves a ceremony (does not necessarily need to be legal, because we have not granted that right to everyone) so that people can take formal vows to make an ultimate commitment. But that is just my subjective view of it. Just saying, "let’s call ourselves married" does not make your vows clear, which would be a problem for me, personally.

Also, a concept being intangible does not make it any less real to people. The what is this thing called 'marriage'? How does it differ from 2 people agreeing to call themselves married? And what would be bad about that?

Like I said, it would only differ from the ceremony with vows (which the couple can decide on for themselves). I’m not calling it bad if two people want to just call themselves married. I just have a different opinion because of the subjective nature of human relationships.

Honestly, I think most people would do better in a relationship that did not involve marriage because of the staggering divorce rate here in the US. However, I think marriage should not be abolished because there are people who can make it work and do well with it.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2011, 11:16:31 AM »
You then say that homosexuals might like the same status. But, as you see, the status "married" is illusory and no different with or without marriage.

Understand that marriage has no intrinsic or objective meaning or purpose; people who get married give it meaning and purpose.
I see now that my quest to find intrinsic meaning in something that humans created was futile and impossible.

some thought it was love, some married for money, some married for fame, some marry to have children or to raise kids they have, some hope to keep the person who isn't faithful, and some married because the person was "hot and sexy!"

Like I said multiple times, all those things can be achieved without marriage.

It's a waste of time marriage, but the way i see it, it doesn't matter. i believe in love, not marriage. some marry for the sake of benefits and companionship. i don't know if i really want marriage, all i rather have is love and companionship.

If you were in my country I'd ask if you wanted to go out, since we appear to want the same things. ;)

I wouldn't abolish marriage, i would rather deny marriage to those who uses it as toilet paper. Marriage isn't a toy to play with, but they treat it as such. So much for "protect the sanctity of marriage from teh gays lulz!" (I added teh on purpose)

I disagree with this. People give meaning to marriage, so they can use it like they want to, as long as everyone has access to it.
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Offline pingnak

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2011, 11:46:24 PM »
Getting nooz stories like this!  That's a good use for marriage.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/groom_doom_after_wedding_V3PE5nRrMyOd3mjw3C8qfM

Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2011, 11:15:09 PM »
some thought it was love, some married for money, some married for fame, some marry to have children or to raise kids they have, some hope to keep the person who isn't faithful, and some married because the person was "hot and sexy!"

Like I said multiple times, all those things can be achieved without marriage.

It's a waste of time marriage, but the way i see it, it doesn't matter. i believe in love, not marriage. some marry for the sake of benefits and companionship. i don't know if i really want marriage, all i rather have is love and companionship.

If you were in my country I'd ask if you wanted to go out, since we appear to want the same things. ;)

heh, that'll be something.

I wouldn't abolish marriage, i would rather deny marriage to those who uses it as toilet paper. Marriage isn't a toy to play with, but they treat it as such. So much for "protect the sanctity of marriage from teh gays lulz!" (I added teh on purpose)

I disagree with this. People give meaning to marriage, so they can use it like they want to, as long as everyone has access to it.
[/quote]

Well what i meant was that money that was put into it, it became a huge waste. but i get your point and i do agree that it's up to them and every consenting adults (Gay, straight, bi, transgender) should be given the chance. so yeah, i see your point.
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I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2011, 12:56:02 AM »
heh, that'll be something.

I assume that was a typo and that you meant "that'd be something".

Well what i meant was that money that was put into it, it became a huge waste. but i get your point and i do agree that it's up to them and every consenting adults (Gay, straight, bi, transgender) should be given the chance. so yeah, i see your point.

Exactly. It's their money to waste.
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Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2011, 01:35:31 AM »
heh, that'll be something.

I assume that was a typo and that you meant "that'd be something".

Well what i meant was that money that was put into it, it became a huge waste. but i get your point and i do agree that it's up to them and every consenting adults (Gay, straight, bi, transgender) should be given the chance. so yeah, i see your point.

Exactly. It's their money to waste.

yep, it's a typo, thanks for pointing that out.  :angel:
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2011, 01:55:04 AM »
yep, it's a typo, thanks for pointing that out.  :angel:

Now I am confused and amused.
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Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2011, 02:29:49 AM »


Now I am confused and amused.

sorry.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2011, 02:35:29 AM »
My names are many, yet I am One.
-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

Religions need books because they don't have gods.

Discord: https://discord.gg/Hhz7Ff2

Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #71 on: November 24, 2011, 07:56:23 AM »
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline One Above All

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Re: What's the point of marriage?
« Reply #72 on: November 24, 2011, 08:20:27 AM »
heh, for confusing you.

It's OK. Sometimes my own confusion is amusing to me. ;)
My names are many, yet I am One.
-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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