Where did your faith come from?

[SERPENT KILLA]

This was a question that I asked Truth OT little while ago.
I think it is an important (to me at least) question for fellow Christians and former Christians.

Please take a few moments and think about it.  Especially former Christians, because you would have to rely on your memories.

The reason why I am asking is that I just had a chance to ask myself a question "Why do I believe?"
Obviously, we all know there is no solid evidence on the bible stories, and some of the stories are completely illogical, irrational, nonscientific.

But you know what? I believe. I just believe.
Is it because I am illogical, irrational?
Then why do I believe in God but disbelieve in Santa?

I found my answer in the bible.

I just want to hear your stories.

[C]

Faith.

Oh boy.

Faith for me when I was a Christian came from the people around me. I grew up Christian, a lot of my friends were Christian, most of my family was Christian, I went to several Christian churches, I was given a children's bible (pictures mostly, sadly I saw no dinosaurs on the Ark), I was encouraged to go to Christian events, I was dissuaded from trick-or-treating (but I kept doing it, freaking free candy man, who wouldn't?) and so forth.

There was no questioning it. It was a part of my life. God was there. I prayed. He answered sometimes, the times he didn't I attributed to "he must be busy", "I was arrogantly testing him" or simply "it was all part of his plan". I admit I never read the Bible in entirety, just followed the pastor/priest on where to flip the page.

Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and so forth, to me, were all wrong. But I felt a bit uneasy. How can so many people be wrong? Are they ALL going to hell?

Then I saw the world.

Then I read the Bible, the Qur'an and other literature.

Then I began to doubt and question.

I threw away Christian faith, was scared for a short period of time of death, the very idea of me ceasing to exist in a void after life was terrifying.

I became slightly peeved and angry at the people who I sort of "respected", such as the pastor. When I confronted him, the best thing he could say was "I don't know".

Suffice to say, the whole losing faith was worth it for me.

[Anfauglir]

Please take a few moments and think about it.  Especially former Christians, because you would have to rely on your memories.

Do current Christians NOT have memories then?   

But you know what? I believe. I just believe.
Is it because I am illogical, irrational?
Then why do I believe in God but disbelieve in Santa?

I don't know.  Why do you believe in Yahweh but not Allah?  Or Sri Ganesh?

I stopped believing at the point where I started reading and thinking.....late teens, at a guess (it was decades ago, to be fair).  Before then, I believed because I'd been told it was true by all the grown-ups that I trusted - my parents, my grandparents, my teachers, for years and years they had been saying "god exists, Jesus exists, the Bible is true" in the same way as they were saying "France exists, clouds exist, these history books are true".

So I believed.  I had no reason not to.

But then I got older, and realised that there were quite literally billions of people in the world who believed something different - or nothing at all.  And I went back and actually READ the Bible (rather than the selected "nice" bits that I had been directed to before) and saw what a horrible creature this supposed god was, and - at the same time - realised that so much of what was written there was in direct conflict with everything I had learned elsewhere: things that I was able to test myself in a way that god (who supposedly loved me and wanted a relationship with me) simply refused to do.  Indeed, that god - and, to this day, every other god - has given me absolutely zero evidence that they exist.  So, I don't believe.  Simple as that.

Why don't believe in any gods?  For the same reason I do not believe in Santa.  Because there is not one shred of evidence that either one exists.

[jynnan tonnix]

  I believed a lot of things when I was little (maybe 6 years old). Fairyland was my favorite. I remember my friend and I leaving little notes to the fairies wherever we'd see a "fairy circle" of mushrooms, asking to be able to see them and to visit fairyland.

  Of course, there were other books and bedtime stories I'd both been told or read for myself (I was one of those early readers). The Jesus story was among them, and we did go to church every Sunday, but that was never as interesting as the fairies.

  On some level, though, I always understood that these stories of supernatural events and beings were all pretend. Thus I remember being really taken aback when I happened on my father kneeling by the side of his bed saying his prayers one evening. It was really confusing to me that a grownup would still be going through the motions of what I perceived as a children's bedtime ritual. It was one of those moments, to me, in a child's life when he or she realizes that their parents are not all powerful and all knowing.
  The realization that my father actually bought into this particular mythology really lessened him in my eyes. It just didn't add up.

I think I spent some time after that trying to figure out what it was about the Jesus stories that made them believable while the other fairytales were not, and just could never come up with anything satisfactory. I grew out of a belief in fairytales as a natural progression, but the belief in Bible stories was not only not phased out of my education but actively encouraged. And yet the holes in the stories and the leaps of faith needed to take them seriously were every bit as big as those needed for any other fantasy tale.

As I said, it just didn't add up to me, and the fact that the grownups didn't seem to see that made me uncomfortable, so I developed a skepticism towards the whole thing really early on, and the older I got, the bigger the gap became between how much sense I was able to see in the apologetic arguments vs the skeptical ones.

Which, I suppose, means I was never a "Christian", as such to begin with (despite efforts to the contrary), but it's still a story of the progression toward losing faith, such as it is, so I'm throwing it in there.

[gonegolfing]

This was a question that I asked Truth OT little while ago.
I think it is an important (to me at least) question for fellow Christians and former Christians.
Please take a few moments and think about it.  Especially former Christians, because you would have to rely on your memories.
The reason why I am asking is that I just had a chance to ask myself a question "Why do I believe?"
Obviously, we all know there is no solid evidence on the bible stories, and some of the stories are completely illogical, irrational, nonscientific.
But you know what? I believe. I just believe.
Is it because I am illogical, irrational?
Then why do I believe in God but disbelieve in Santa?

I found my answer in the bible.

I just want to hear your stories.

Perhaps this is the answer you found as to why you believe ? :

Luk 12:5  But I will warn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, who after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

or this:

Rev 14:11  And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

or this:

Mat 13:41  The Son of Man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity,
Mat 13:42  and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

If it's not your answer, then perhaps it should be ? 

Look, you believe because it's easy. Because your credulous. Because your afraid. And because your lazy. I'm not trying to be mean, so why do I say that ? Well, like all theists, the faith "copout" makes it so much easier to try and answer the big and puzzling questions of life. Faith quickly does all the work for you and lets you off the hook for facing up to and explaining the things that you don't know or find hard to understand. Faith in the supernatural as an "end all be all" is a free pass from having to accept the hard facts of reality and enables the "anything goes" concept of fantasy to flourish. Faith is the dangerous tool then that allows an individual to take a fallacious claim from logically impossible to seemingly hard fact in one easy leap. Faith conveniently allows its users to build the perfect little life that they think best suits them and eases their fears in the process......Supernatural faith then, is illogical, fraudulent, and in fact corrupting to the human intellect.

Anyone who has a belief, makes a claim or assertion, that is based on faith alone, is immediately and clearly showing that their position cannot be supported or valid on its own merit. This action immediately shows a complete lack of knowledge and supporting evidence to prove truth and enables the individual to claim almost "anything" without using any intellectual responsibility at all. The individual that uses blind faith is providing sure fire evidence that they respect ignorance over knowledge and are more willing to choose fiction over fact.

SK, there's a vast chasm between the type of faith you use and the faith that atheists use. Yours is a weak and irrational faith, based on ignorance and fear which then only leads you deeper into fantasy. Ours is a common sense faith, based on rational expectations through valid experience and facts and evidence.

If faith is all that is needed to prove the existence of a god, then the Muslims are correct about Allah, the Hindus are correct about Brahman, Shinto's seven lucky gods are correct...et. cetera... With blind faith:--everyone is correct and all gods exists.

There's one thing that is absolutely true about the use of illogical and baseless faith by humans:-- We live in a world where the majority are lazy, ignorant, and intellectually bankrupt in doing so.   

 

 

[Hatter23]

This was a question that I asked Truth OT little while ago.
I think it is an important (to me at least) question for fellow Christians and former Christians.

Please take a few moments and think about it.  Especially former Christians, because you would have to rely on your memories.

The reason why I am asking is that I just had a chance to ask myself a question "Why do I believe?"
Obviously, we all know there is no solid evidence on the bible stories, and some of the stories are completely illogical, irrational, nonscientific.

But you know what? I believe. I just believe.
Is it because I am illogical, irrational?
Then why do I believe in God but disbelieve in Santa?

I found my answer in the bible.

I just want to hear your stories.

If you believe in Santa, but disbelieve in God,

by your reasoning "I found my answer in Clement Clarke Moore poetry" is an acceptable answer.

[screwtape]

When I believed, it was because I trusted that the people close to me - my parents, grandparents, priests - told me the truth - that there was a god, and jesus H was his son, etc.  That was where my faith came from.  It was in real people who were supposed to be looking out for my best interests.

Later, when I actually read the bible, I stopped believing in gods.  My trust in the people I loved was tempered with some common sense, knowing that while they were looking out for my best interests, I had better do some research before taking their advice because they did not always have the right answers.

[Hatter23]

When I believed, it was because I trusted that the people close to me - my parents, grandparents, priests - told me the truth - that there was a god, and jesus H was his son, etc.  That was where my faith came from.  It was in real people who were supposed to be looking out for my best interests.

Later, when I actually read the bible, I stopped believing in gods.  My trust in the people I loved was tempered with some common sense, knowing that while they were looking out for my best interests, I had better do some research before taking their advice because they did not always have the right answers.

That pretty much describes my experience.

[plethora]

My parents are both Catholics (he is Italian and she is Mexican). They both come from families and societies that are overwhelmingly Catholic.

The god belief was put in me from the very beginning. We went to church and we celebrated Catholic holidays. I attended a million church weddings and baptisms (all our friends and family being very Catholic).

I thanked god for every meal and prayed before going to bed every single day. I went to a Catholic school and even had Catholic after-school bible lessons and such. I was in the choir.  My first communion was a big deal... lots of preparation. I had to go to confession every Sunday after that.

In short ... I was heavily indoctrinated and so was everyone around me. My entire family is still religious.

It's a fucking miracle[1] I turned out an atheist.

1.	pun shamelessly intended

[Samuelxcs]

My 'faith' came from my mind. I just thought about all the possibilities of my existence and everything else's. My parents were Christian though, but I did not believe what they believed. Even though they were Christian, they did very un-Christian things, like hurt each other, but they still celebrated Christian events and wore crucifixes and stuff. My own mind is the cause of my 'faith'.

[Aaron123]

I stopped believing at the point where I started reading and thinking.....late teens, at a guess (it was decades ago, to be fair).  Before then, I believed because I'd been told it was true by all the grown-ups that I trusted - my parents, my grandparents, my teachers, for years and years they had been saying "god exists, Jesus exists, the Bible is true" in the same way as they were saying "France exists, clouds exist, these history books are true".

So I believed.  I had no reason not to.

But then I got older, and realised that there were quite literally billions of people in the world who believed something different - or nothing at all.  And I went back and actually READ the Bible (rather than the selected "nice" bits that I had been directed to before) and saw what a horrible creature this supposed god was, and - at the same time - realised that so much of what was written there was in direct conflict with everything I had learned elsewhere: things that I was able to test myself in a way that god (who supposedly loved me and wanted a relationship with me) simply refused to do.  Indeed, that god - and, to this day, every other god - has given me absolutely zero evidence that they exist.  So, I don't believe.  Simple as that.

Why don't believe in any gods?  For the same reason I do not believe in Santa.  Because there is not one shred of evidence that either one exists.

Some of the details are different, but this is close to my experience.

[Truth OT]

The carrot that is dangling from the end of the rope is a powerful motivator SK. Most of mankind throughout history have longed for a way to rise beyond the confines of mortality and the Bible serves as a means of hope for such a possibility.

Most belief is instilled and reinforced by the environments we develop in. In settings where the Bible is believed to be the Word of God, then belief in it will be the norm, the same can be said for the Koran in many Middle Eastern settings. When things are taught from a young age and reinforced as we grow up, very rarely are those things questions or brought under a microscope and put on trial. So it doesn't require irrationality as much as it requires complacancy (sp?).

In addition, the Bible does attempt to provide answers to the most human of questions from; "Why am I here?", "where did I come from?", and "what is my purpose?". Most people gain a degree of comfort having those questions answered and whether those answers are right or not, people tend to find them as better alternatives than not having any answers.

[ParkingPlaces]

I never had faith, but when I was young, I assumed. Assumed, like screwtape, but with less intensity, that my parents, etc. were correct in telling me about god and jesus, etc.

By the time I was 11, I figured out that they were wrong.

I've no idea why the fairy tales of religion held no appeal, nor why they didn't sound true. Well, that's not true. What I have no idea about is how people can believe.

Why can't christians figure out they are christians not because jc was true but because they grew up in a christian society. Hindus are hindus, muslims are muslims, etc., because of their culture. And since the various religions provide conflicting stories, and even within religions there are conflicting stories, I just can't imagine how anyone an actually conjure up faith. Not in the long term. All one has to do is look around the world, see all the religions traditions, understand that since the ones you disagree with are obviously not true, that perhaps the one you think is accurate may well not be true as well.

Faith is apparently the only consistent path to religious belief. There is no other way to swallow the stuff.

Take it from me. Just assuming doesn't last all that long.

[Avatar Of Belial]

Is it because I am illogical, irrational?

Yes.

Then why do I believe in God but disbelieve in Santa?

Why do some Scientologists disbelieve in bigfoot?

---
   Irrational does not (inherently) mean stupid, it just means that one is more open to accepting stupid things. With the "God" character, he can hide and obscure himself by his own (vague) definition. Santa, on the other hand, doesn't get much of a pass since more concrete information is stated about him. For example: "God" gives you a warm fuzzy feeling - which could also have come from that hot chocolate you drank. Santa gives you presents. Except you can pretty much prove that most of your presents as a kid came from your parents - and if you have kids of your own, you probably haven't found too many presents under the tree whose origin is unknown to you.



   As for my faith[1]: that came from my mother, but I dropped it not long after I dropped Santa (and for similar reasons).

1.	If you can call it that.

[flapdoodle64]

I got my 'faith' from my parents.  My father was a Lutheran preacher. The same people who told me to that bees can sting you told me about Jesus, God, and all that...slowly, repeatedly, adding a bit more here and there...raised that way, you don't think to question it...like you don't question the fact that bees can sting you. 

In retrospect, it wasn't faith, just indoctrination.  If Christians really believed all this BS the way they pretend to, then they'd wait till a person was of an age capable of critical thinking before they laid all this mythology on you.  But they don't, and they make a point of filling your mind with it as soon as you can talk.

My faith began to erode due to a series of events.  One was the discovery that my dad the preacher was shagging one of the parishoners.  Another was when a year later, at only age 54, he had a devastating stroke while shagging this lady.  Another was when he was in the hospital telling me how repeating in his mind the 'Jesus prayer' helped him stay alive.  It was pathetic how this poor, twisted, bastard's guilyty conscience had whistled up an angry god to stike him down, and how this poor, pain-racked bastard was begging this angry god to play nice with him. 

Summer 1987, I read the Gospels.  They were interesting, but there was a lot of stuff there that didn't jibe with church.

Later I read a Kurt Vonnegut book, I think it was 'Palm Sunday,' which was the first time I read an actual atheist talk about being an atheist, and I was surprised to learn that atheism did not equate with sadism  and evil. 

Nov. 1988 I had a dream in which it occurred to me that I was an agnostic, and then I woke up from the dream with the realization that I was in fact, agnostic about the existence of god.

[gonegolfing]

It's certainly a valid and strong point that others have made, with regards to a child's faith in the supernatural that comes from indoctrination. The child's complete trust and confidence(faith) in its parents, family, or others that have influence over them, and that they are being real and honest with the child, doesn't allow suspicion of faith for the most part, and doesn't give the child much of a chance of rejecting it until the child matures and is willing to open its mind and critically think about what it believes and what it is being taught.

But it's difficult in so many ways as well as you grow older. When you're under the care and roof of your parents you feel somewhat obligated to toe the line and keep any doubts or opposition to your faith to yourself, so as to not rock the boat. Then as well, in young adulthood and after leaving the home, out of respect you don't want to cause offence or hurt feelings as well.

From day one, I had a very strong indoctrination into pentecostalism, which is a tough sell by any standards, but I stuck strongly with it for most of my life because of the strong belief roots that the doctrines themselves developed in my youth, and of course my loyalty to my family that started the whole process and that I knew loved me. I trusted completely that they were doing the right thing by me. It's a powerful combination of faiths that keeps the delusion going:--faith in the doctrines and faith in family that introduces them.

It's a tough confession for many, but my entire family and group of theists friends know that I've tossed the practice of faith in the supernatural---in the trash can. It caused concern for most of them and perhaps even some hurt feelings and anger in several, but my mental health, freedom of mind, and my deepest integrity that only I can know and feel, was at stake. For me those are high stakes, and so the thoughts of living out the rest of my life simply appeasing others and trying to ensure that they have a happy and healthy view of who I was, couldn't withstand my desire to simply, and openly, be myself and real and free.

Child indoctrination is the act of birthing irrational faith, without consent, in a helpless mind  But one of the greatest things ever is that it can also die in that same mind once it has matured and developed the courage to kill it.     

 

[Whateverman]

This was a question that I asked Truth OT little while ago.
I think it is an important (to me at least) question for fellow Christians and former Christians.

Please take a few moments and think about it.  Especially former Christians, because you would have to rely on your memories.

...

I just want to hear your stories.

Wikipedia definitions aside, I was previously a non-Christian theist but am now a deist.  Your question seems not to be directed at me, correct?

[pingnak]

Infectious ignorance is where it came from.  Early childhood indoctrination.

Education is where it went.  When I became mature enough to evaluate EVERYTHING I read or heard, and erected my 'bullshit filter', I eventually got around to using it on religion, and it didn't pass through.

[RaymondKHessel]

Never had no faith. Nobody ever told me I needed any lol.

Strangely enough? I don't feel like I've missed out on much. Imagine that!

Could be because I've watched "The Faithful" behave like pretentious assholes and preachy, tight-ass d-bags my entire life.... Telling people how to live, how to think, what to think, how this that or the other thing *REALLY* works... Blabbering to each other in 14th century English about what talking goat was REALLY a talking goat and which one was really just a metaphor HOLY s**t MAKE IT STOP!

Err... No offense to anybody present, I'm sure you're all completely passive when it comes to your beliefs, and totally keep them to yourselves.
 
But anyway, I was also rather turned off by the wackadoos high on "faith" embarassing themselves by rolling around on the ground and having fake seizures in their churches, or having "holy laughing fits" or speaking in tounges or whatever other weird goofy s**t those people get into.

Can't say I'd particularly WANT to have faith in a deity that makes me act like I'm half a retard.

Finally, just growing up the way I did, hanging out with all kinds of people, hearing them ramble about energy fields and gods "outside of time", desert gods from ancient Palastine, Eastern gods with 6 arms or Elephant heads, blah blah blah... Became pretty clear, pretty quick, nobody actually had any fucking clue what they were talking about, and it was sadly transparent that they were ALL just clinging to their personal flavor of wackyness because they NEEDED it to get through the day.

I never did. <shrug>

Anyway. Moral of the story, never had none. Fresh out. Faith-less, if you will. Berefit of Faith. Muthaflippin' Faith No More, bizatch. And I am most definitely 100% better off for it. 

[SERPENT KILLA]

Wikipedia definitions aside, I was previously a non-Christian theist but am now a deist.  Your question seems not to be directed at me, correct?

Correct.

[SERPENT KILLA]

Thank you all for honest and  well thought out answers.

I would like to leave this topic intact until I hear more stories from you, if that is okay with all of you.

[Klokinator]

The reason why I am asking is that I just had a chance to ask myself a question "Why do I believe?"
Obviously, we all know there is no solid evidence on the bible stories, and some of the stories are completely illogical, irrational, nonscientific.

I can't tell if you're an atheist trolling us by pretending to be a dumb christian, or a dumb christian.

"Obviously the defendant has lied, cheated, and stolen a few things, and yeah he killed some people, but I still believe in his innocence!"

[SERPENT KILLA]

I can't tell if you're an atheist trolling us by pretending to be a dumb christian, or a dumb christian.

None of the above. Sorry

[nogodsforme]

I was a fully indoctrinated JW kid, despite watching all kind of hypocrisy and wrongness among the members. By the teen years I realized that I did believe in science and I did not believe in ghosts-- and that god was just a big ghost. It was going away to college and learning about other world religions that sealed the deal.

Living in third world countries-- with sincere, hardworking, devoutly religious poor people whose lives are absolute sh!t--  only reinforced my atheism. If there was a god worth worshipping, no way would these people have to live the way they do while we rich, fat, lazy Americans fart our lives away eating too much, complaining too much, buying too much stuff and watching too much tv.

[Truth OT]

..........no way would these people have to live the way they do while we rich, fat, lazy Americans fart our lives away eating too much, complaining too much, buying too much stuff and watching too much tv.

How do you view the relationship between the priviledges we have in America with the plight of those you mentioned? Do you believe there is a direct relationship and that were it not for the American lifestyle that these people would not be suffering or do you believe Americans simply would do well to reach out more to the peoples you described?

[fishjie]

I became a believer in 5th grade.    In high school, I had a crisis of faith when I started questioning things.    I just decided to have faith, and stay strong.    I had several relapses in college, before finally succumbing to logic at age 24.    At no point was there ever a good reason for me to believe, I knew the contradictions, errors, and problems with christian theology, but chose to bury them so as not to cause discomfort to myself.   

[nogodsforme]

..........no way would these people have to live the way they do while we rich, fat, lazy Americans fart our lives away eating too much, complaining too much, buying too much stuff and watching too much tv.

How do you view the relationship between the priviledges we have in America with the plight of those you mentioned? Do you believe there is a direct relationship and that were it not for the American lifestyle that these people would not be suffering or do you believe Americans simply would do well to reach out more to the peoples you described?

I was here referring to the idea that there was a benevolent all powerful god out there managing all of this inequality and unfairness. There is no such being.

Of course there is a relationship between the rich countries and the poor ones. One of the reasons some people became rich is that we stole resources for centuries from the countries/populations that are now poor. People in France got rich off sugar cane grown by slaves in Haiti--stripping the island of trees and soil in the process. Families in Portugal got rich exploiting slaves in Brazil. In the US the cotton industry in the south could only expand as fast as land could be stolen from the native people. In 1846 the US stole the northern 2/3 of Mexico, taking most of the fertile agricultural land. Dynasties in England grew powerful and wealthy by stealing from India, Kenya, Nigeria, Egypt, Iran and Jamaica. Etc.Etc.

[Mr. Blackwell]

When I was seven my mom remarried and we moved out of our trailer into a house on the other side of town. One day, I was staring into my own eyes with the bathroom mirror. I got stuck in my gaze for what felt like an eternity. I questioned my existence, "why am I here?" "How did I get here?" "What is my purpose?". Even at that age I had a basic understanding of sperm and eggs and marveled at the realization that if any other of the multitude of sperm had fertilized moms egg then I would have been a completely different person. Suffice to say, my mind=blown.

The next day I was at the park with my aunt and my cousins. I was still thinking about the night before and decided to ask my aunt, "Why are we here?" To which she naturally assumed I was asking why we were at the park. So I clarified the question for her as best I could. She told me it was something I sort of had to figure out for myself. The next weekend my aunt and uncle started taking me to church with them.

So, the answer to my question of "why are we here?" was, God. God would give me my purpose...my purpose was to live for God. I fell in love with the idea that Jesus loved me. I walked the isle and confessed my sins and committed my life to Jesus when I was 9. It was an emotional release. I embraced the idea like only a child can.

Living in the Appalachians only helped reinforce what I had accepted. My mom was so proud of me the day I accepted Jesus into my heart. It took several years but I inspired my mom to start going back to church. Unfortunately for her, by the time she rediscovered Christ I was well on my way out of organized religion. My brother was one of the people who helped open my eyes to the hypocrisy.

So, not a big fan of organized religion...very skeptical of all religious "leaders" but still agnostic about the whole creator thing. So there you have it, in a nutshell.

[Noman Peopled]

Please take a few moments and think about it.

I was taught some childish versions of bible stories and got afraid of hell. Hence, I was left with the choice to placate myself by believing or persist in fear.

Is it because I am illogical, irrational?
Then why do I believe in God but disbelieve in Santa?

Irrationality is not all or nothing. I won't speculate on your motivation.