Author Topic: Jesus died for sins?  (Read 383 times)

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Offline catdance62

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Jesus died for sins?
« on: October 16, 2011, 08:36:11 AM »
I don't post on here much, although I do enjoy reading everyone else's posts. However, I have a question. The whole "Jesus died for our sins" thing is completely retarded to me. What are "sins" anyway? Stupid. That said, I wonder where the part is in the Bible that supposedly said since Jesus came, all the rules of the Old Testament weren't to be followed anymore? I have read the Bible (twice, actually), but it's been a while and frankly all i remember is the part where Jesus supposedly said he came to fulfill the prophecy of the old prophets. I live in an area of the US where Southern Baptist is the primary religion and these people are all about that Jesus  and the New Testament, even though they love to quote a lot of the Old Testament too, which makes NO SENSE to me at all . IMHO, it's all a bunch of crap and people just seem to make it up as they go along.

Offline jetson

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Re: Jesus died for sins?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2011, 10:32:16 AM »
Indeed, non-sense on a global scale.  Nice post.

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Jesus died for sins?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2011, 10:53:13 AM »
If it violates thier sensabilities, they say, "you're taking it out of context," "it was the culture back then," "it was meant for [that] group specifically, not [all] christians today."  &)

I'm in Bible Belt Southern Baptist area too. They like to point to something in Hebrews that they focus on that one verse and take it out of context and say they don't have to obey the OT at all, but if you cheer about abolishing the 10 Commandments, they "correct" you and state that it was only those 10 Commandments that Jesus was talking about when he said, "... not one jot or title shall pass..."  &)

They also love the believe that a whole bunch of sayings are Biblical cannon but they aren't in the Bible at all, but if you challenge them on it, they tell you to prove it. Ironic considering Southern Baptists PRIDE themselves on "scripture memory." Every week (in the Church I was attending) you're supposed to memorize at least 1 Bible verse, or multiple if it takes more than one to complete a thought. Yep, they will not tell you where it's at, in fact they'll refuse to tell you the "verse" and tell you, "it's in there somewhere, but why don't YOU find it and tell me the book:verse." I got the same **** regarding 'Hail Mary,' while I was being raised as a Catholic. They hate being called on it, and they really hate being called on it if you're younger than them... and if they're your parent who spends 4 hours every night studying the Bible[1] and you show that you know it better than them...  :o .

Yep, some 16 year old whipper-snapper having a better reading comprehension & retention than thier parent that has spent thier entire life studying it. I guess they only read the 5% they're "supposed to" over and over, while ignoring the rest of it. People complain that "it's too big" "there isn't enough time." BS. My bible I was given by my parents has a guide on reading the Bible in it's entirety in 365 days. Shouldn't someone who just became a Christian want to know what God would expect them to know? If instead of reading it every day, but every week, that's 7 years. So any person that's been a Christian once they turn 18[2], or  when they get converted if over 18, if in 7 years they haven't read the bible in it's entirety... especially if they hadn't even tried, I'd have to call them "willfully ignorant."

There's even a 3 year plan, basically 1 chapter a day[3] or 21 years if they only read 1 chapter a week. So, yeah, telling you to find it then tell them the book:verse or "prove it to them" is the "christian" way of telling you to "go to hell."

For the sins:

Hi, I'm a scam artist I've come to tell you there's something wrong with you. Not only do you not even deserve or have the right to live, your only right is that you deserve to die in the most horrible way imaginable, and then spend the rest of eternity being tortured. All you have to do is sign in this spot and you'll never have to worry about that again. In fact you'll get the FREE Gift of Eternal Life! No, there's no "catch," "legalese," and "this is not a scam," The saying, "If it looks too good to be true it probably is works in every circumstance EXCEPT this one ONLY!" Sign here please.

<target signs>

Great! Now for the rest of your life you need to attend this thing called "Church" every Sunday! If you do not, the contract is voided. You can always attend MORE if you want to, but you must do at least the minimum. Then there's the "tithe" it is an additional tax that is of the minimum 10% of your income. You can always give more. When something comes up like around Christmas time, yeah, you're expected to pay an additional 10% or more to that and not to substitute your tithe into that for it's seasonal run. Again, if you do not comply, the Contract will be voided and you'll burn in Hell. Next you'll need to buy this Book called the BuyBull,  you can buy from me directly, but you can choose to go elsewhere. You need to make sure the version of the BuyBull is fully compatible with the Church you are attending. That way the rules your past... Rules? Yes there are rules, now hush. Your Pastor/Priest will tell you the rules you need to live by, and this is different depending on which Church you choose to attend. Each one thinks they're the ones going to Heaven and everyone else is going to Hell. Only one of them are correct, if any are correct and no, I will not tell you which one. You'll just be 'led' somewhere. To accept or not accept you do so at your own peril. Peril? Yes, you see, if you don't follow the right rules correctly, the contract will be void and you'll burn in hell. Since you'll have no way of knowing if you picked the correct one, you won't know till Judgement Day.  :? I can see I'm getting too far ahead... anyways, there are 38,000 versions of Christianity, so "Good Luck" because you're going to REALLY need it. Oh By the way, Eternal Life only happens after you die, no don't give me that look... no, of course there's no way to verify... "perish" only means you will not be resurrected, not that you won't actually die... sheesh!

Edit: I got BuyBull from Mram I think.
 1. I think they do this, just to say they to to appear "holier than thou."
 2. seriously the book should be NC-17 or R.
 3. some small chapters are grouped together
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 11:02:53 AM by TruthSeeker »

Offline albeto

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Re: Jesus died for sins?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2011, 01:07:38 PM »
I'm of the opinion that the idea the Old Testament is no longer a matter of responsibility but a matter of advice (with the exception of the Ten Commandments and beating a child with a rod), was an invention of Martin Luther.  I think his reformation wasn't about belief at all but about ridding the Catholic authorities from his homeland and he was clever enough to beat them at their own game.  When he challenged the idea of the of the economy of grace, he challenged the need for the office of the pope.  Preaching that man can be saved by faith alone makes the sacraments important but not eternal life-or-death important, and only two sacraments from the original seven are necessary (baptism and communion, if I recall correctly).  These sacraments may convey grace (God's presence in the soul) but they are also symbolic.  For the Catholic, these sacraments are not symbolic but are signs of God's grace (Catholics have since redefined how this works and are comfortable with the whole "baptism by desire" concept that procures the same supernatural effect without a priest). 

Anyway, I think this idea that Christians are "under grace not law" was a contribution of followers of Luther if not Luther himself, in order to throw off the requirements of the Catholic authority.  No need for an ordained Roman Catholic priest means no need for priests at all and people could continue being faithful *German* Christians (or Dutch, or English, or anything but Roman). 

I think the concept that the OT is basically nice stories of God's power or good advice makes no logical sense, given the premise of Christianity and the history of the religion from its liturgical roots.  Judaism is ritualistic, it's the behaviors that allow people to recognize and celebrate with "one of our own."  It is a very communal ideology and the idea that one person has a relationship with God outside the relationship with the rest is a relatively modern invention, imo.  Doing away with the OT means doing away with liturgy and the need for hierarchy and allows for a personal SPAG to prevail, thus no one can really judge and all must be accepted. 

For this reason, "sin" is so very subjective and essentially means "that behavior which infringes on my desires."  That's why gossip is a sin when done against me but if I'm just sharing information it's fine.  I think the idea that sin is an injustice against God is essentially a euphemism for saying a particular thing is bad for society in the opinion of the individual.  That's why you'll never get a Christian to stand firm on what a sin really is because "no one can judge the heart but God."  I think that's an evolutionary design that protects individuals from judgement.  No judgement means no one can make a declaration about another person, everyone is "safe" and that means one can go about their business guilt-free. 

(I hope this makes sense, I'm still working on my first cuppa and can I say, I just love staying home on Sunday morning)

Offline ungod

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Re: Jesus died for sins?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 08:10:17 PM »
If Jesus died for our sins, let's not disappoint him!
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Offline Joetruth2

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Re: Jesus died for sins?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 09:14:24 PM »
Vanity is my favorite sin.
 8)

Offline Joetruth2

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Re: Jesus died for sins?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 09:18:44 PM »
If sin exists it would be to me doing an act which in the mind of the actor is wrong.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Jesus died for sins?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2011, 09:30:45 PM »
I've always wanted to know which sins he died for. The ones I like or the ones they hate?  Southern baptists had no problem treating blacks like sh*t for many, many years, but I can't peek at my neighbors wife without condemning myself to hell and beyond (unless, of course, I ask for forgiveness, accept jc, etc). Sorry, but my moral compass points in a much better direction.

Being condemned generically lacks a certain savoir faire. Or as they probably say down south, savoir faire, y'all. A human that is both freely choosing the sins that he condemns me for while choosing yet another set for himself is playing games so badly rigged that nobody can win.

If the christians had specifics that didn't vary by denomination and geography, I might be a tiny bit more impressed. But the preacher who stole several thousand dollars from me who thinks he's going to heaven while I, who have never stole thousands from anyone, am going to hell, should stick his head where the sun don't shine. At least I know that place is real.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline Historicity

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Re: Jesus died for sins?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2011, 10:29:23 PM »
If Jesus died for our sins, let's not disappoint him!

Someone in the late 1990s said of Bill Clinton, "He believes in a forgiving God and he believes in giving Him a lot of work."