Author Topic: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]  (Read 870 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« on: October 16, 2011, 06:31:40 AM »
Hello,

My name is [redacted]. I am a Christian girl in my final year of highschool. I watched your video, 10 Questions Every Intelligent Christian Must Answer, and I have to say that you make some interesting points and raise some important questions. I may not be as smart as a college student, who your video is directed to, but I have a personal relationship with our Creator and your video got me thinking. I have no desire to consent to your conclusions and I do not wish this email to be viewed as a rebuke to you or anything of that sort. But, I would like to address a few of the questions that stood out to me from your video.
 
Question #3 - Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?
First off, I would like to convey to you that there is no such thing as an 'innocent person'. You might think this sounds strange coming from a Christian, especially one that is not yet an adult. If you have read the Bible, then you must understand that everyone is corrupt. Ever since the Fall of Man (Adam and Eve) evil has been let loose in our world and has warped people from the start; Christians and non-Christians alike. Every person on this earth, everyone who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live, is only worthy of one thing: eternal death. The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is the fact that the former have accepted the salvation that is offered to everyone by our Creator. When Jesus died on the cross, He created a bridge between sinners and God. Let me give a quick analogy to further clarify what this means. God is Holy and He hates sin. Sin cannot survive in God's presence and since people are completely engulfed in their sins, neither can they if they are exposed to His glory. But, when Jesus died, He became a sort of lens that covers up our sin (forgives and forgets them), so that God can accept us. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14: 5-7). This means that, even though we are all equal and we are all wretched sinners, God will accept us if we accept Jesus. Now, with that said, I may answer the question. God demanded the death of sinners, not innocent people. This, however, only occurred in the Old Testament of the Bible. Jesus was born, lived, was crucified, conquered death and ascended to heaven in the New Testament. We must take into account that the laws of the Old Testament changed after Jesus paid for our sins on the cross. Before our sins were forgiven, even the most minor sins had to be punished. The punishment for sin is death, no matter how "bad" the sin may be. But, since Jesus paid the price for the sin of the world, we are pardoned for the sin we commit. So, in conclusion, since God is a just ruler, He had to punish those who sinned in the Old Testament. But, after Jesus died, God no longer needed to punish people.

Question #4 - Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
I am very interested in science. I am not in college but I know how science works. The answer to this question was actually said by the narrator in the video. He asks the question "why would an all-knowing God write nonsense?"  All-knowing is the answer. God is all-knowing, this means that He is also all-powerful. Now, would you not agree that an all-powerful being would be able to easily turn the impossible into possible? If you are to answer no, then that would make you contradictory to what you stated in your video as you said that He is all-knowing and only an all-powerful being could be all-knowing. If you answer yes, then the only question I have is why do you doubt the stories in the Bible? Why is it so hard to believe that an all-powerful being would do things that seem impossible according to our logic? Also, since He is all-powerful, and the stories in the Bible are true, then He made science. Therefore, shouldn't He be able to bend the laws of science?

Question #6 - Why do bad things happen to good people?
This question is along the lines of question 3. There are no 'good people' in the world. Yes, there are people who do things that we consider 'great', 'heroic', 'noble', or even 'good'. But, in reality, people are all equal; lowly, wicked sinners and we all deserve death. God said that a Christian's life would be far from easy. This world is corrupt and everyone feels its sting throughout their lives. However, this world is only temporary and our lives are too short to be wasting our time wallowing in our troubles and all the bad things that happen to us. Everyone faces trials, it just depends on what we do with the time we are given.

Question #9 - Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
This question is not a very difficult one to answer. If you understand the Bible, then you realize that it is full of metaphors, parables and symbolic relationships. When Jesus says that we are to eat of his body and drink of his blood, He did not mean physically (this is obviously not possible for us to do). He meant it to be a symbolic way for us to remember that He died on the cross for us. It's like when people wear poppy flowers on November 11th. Everyone wearing a poppy flower one day a year seems very strange unless you realize that they are showing respect for all those soldiers who gave their lives. In the same way, we eat and drink of Christ's body and blood as a way of showing that we will never forget how He paid for our sins by having His body broken and His blood spilled.


These are a few of the questions that stood out to me from your video. I hope you do not get offended from this email but rather that you stop to think about what you're saying. Even if you do not believe in prayer, I have seen what it can do and I believe in the power that it holds. Therefore, I will be praying for you.

Bless you,
[name]
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline jetson

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2011, 07:11:01 AM »
Hello,

Knowing that you are in high school, and that you answered those questions in the way that you did, actually makes me very sad.  It shows that you were clearly indoctrinated by your parents, or by people around you who decided that telling you what to think would be better than allowing you to think on your own.

I won't talk about every point you replied to, but I will add this.  Human beings are among the most compassionate and self aware of all of the mammals.  But we are certainly not "corrupt" and worthy of only eternal death.  This idea is one of the most unfortunate lies you have been told.  And it turns you into another deluded individual who is likely to enter adulthood thinking that there is something so wrong with humans that only worshipping a god will "save" us.

And you will heap that guilt and shame and fear upon your children, keeping this nonsense alive for another generation.  Stop and think for a moment.  Did you once believe in Santa Claus?  And when you realized it was a lie, you probably quietly forgot about it.  Well, God is also an imaginary character invented by ignorant and fearful humans who did not even realize they were standing on a planet circling the sun.  Yes, they were that ignorant, yet you seem to think they had special knowledge of a god.  Why is that?

Break the spell, come join our forum, and recognize that it is OK to be human, imperfect, and skeptical about mythological gods and their ridiculous impact on people.  You can be better than this, by shedding the silly god nonsense.

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2011, 07:16:46 AM »
Hello,

My name is [redacted]. I am a Christian girl in my final year of highschool.

Hello. I am known as Blaziken (among other names).

(...) I have a personal relationship with our Creator and your video got me thinking.

I hear this all the time from many christians, all of whom disagree with you on at least one thing.
I dismiss it as "normal" egocentrism. To claim that a supreme being created a universe that's bigger than we can imagine, yet that it created it all for us and that you (theists) have a "special personal relationship" with it.

But, I would like to address a few of the questions that stood out to me from your video.

I'm not surprised you didn't answer the first one - WWGHA?
It's the one all christians struggle with. Their god blatantly lies in the Bible about prayer, among other things.

First off, I would like to convey to you that there is no such thing as an 'innocent person'. You might think this sounds strange coming from a Christian, especially one that is not yet an adult.

Not really. A lot of theists claim this.
As for actually debunking this - How would you classify a newborn baby? Is it evil despite the fact that it's 0 seconds old?

If you have read the Bible, then you must understand that everyone is corrupt.

I tried, but I found it to be too incoherent for my taste. I prefer my fairy tales to have some degree of coherency.

Ever since the Fall of Man (Adam and Eve) evil has been let loose in our world and has warped people from the start; Christians and non-Christians alike.

Actually evil was already there. Remember the serpent that your omniscient god created?
Also, I pointed this out a while back on the forum: Adam and Eve were perfect; therefore, they were only capable of doing good. Eve ate of the fruit and, after having gained the knowledge of what was good and evil, she offered it to Adam, who also ate from it.

Not to mention that the serpent told the truth about them not dying after eating from the tree, whereas your god told them they would die that very same day.

Every person on this earth, everyone who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live, is only worthy of one thing: eternal death.

I'd rather you didn't judge all 7 billion humans on the planet without knowing them first. I seem to remember something "Judge not lest ye be judged", but that might just be me making up stuff.

The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is the fact that the former have accepted the salvation that is offered to everyone by our Creator.

Actually the only difference between those two groups is that christians believe in something that non-christians don't.

When Jesus died on the cross, He created a bridge between sinners and God.

Sin was invented by religion as a way to control the masses. So was Jesus, by the way. And even assuming it's real, I wouldn't accept such a thing on principle alone. I would never let someone else suffer for what I have done.

Let me give a quick analogy to further clarify what this means.

I sense a false analogy.

God is Holy and He hates sin.

That explains why he continuously sins throughout the Bible... or why he created evil in the first place.

Sin cannot survive in God's presence and since people are completely engulfed in their sins, neither can they if they are exposed to His glory.

Why do you keep capitalizing pronouns in the middle of sentences? Have you studied some grammar?

But, when Jesus died, He became a sort of lens that covers up our sin (forgives and forgets them), so that God can accept us.

See above. Anyone who accepts another person being sacrificed for their misdeeds is evil, pure and simple.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14: 5-7).

True. Harry Potter also said that he loves magic.

This means that, even though we are all equal and we are all wretched sinners, God will accept us if we accept Jesus.

Speak for yourself.

Now, with that said, I may answer the question.

I'm glad, because that was a whole bunch of nonsense.

God demanded the death of sinners, not innocent people.

Well, now you lost me. Before you said everyone was a sinner; that there are no innocent people. so your god demands the death of all 7 billion humans on Earth? And you willingly worship this being?

This, however, only occurred in the Old Testament of the Bible.

Which is still valid, if you believe in what Jesus said about not abolishing the old laws.

Jesus was born, lived, was crucified, conquered death and ascended to heaven in the New Testament.

Harry Potter did the same. All hail Potter.

We must take into account that the laws of the Old Testament changed after Jesus paid for our sins on the cross.

Either this is a blatant lie or you didn't actually read the Bible.

Before our sins were forgiven, even the most minor sins had to be punished.

So everyone was punished. Gotcha.

The punishment for sin is death, no matter how "bad" the sin may be.

So everyone was killed? :S
How did that work out?

But, since Jesus paid the price for the sin of the world, we are pardoned for the sin we commit.

So none of us are sinners? You're really making no sense here. You must realize that.

So, in conclusion, since God is a just ruler

Doesn't sound so just to me.

He had to punish those who sinned in the Old Testament.

Which, according to you, is everyone. And since the punishment for sin is death and everyone was a sinner, there's only one conclusion - We're not actually alive, we're all in hell right now.

But, after Jesus died, God no longer needed to punish people.

And here I thought an omnipotent god didn't "need" to do anything; that it could just do whatever the hell it wanted.

God is all-knowing, this means that He is also all-powerful.

Don't be so sure.
Once again, what's with the typos? I'd understand if you randomly put a single word with a capital letter in the middle of a sentence, but you keep doing it! It's quite annoying.

Now, would you not agree that an all-powerful being would be able to easily turn the impossible into possible?

Of course. I also agree that then, it wouldn't be so "supreme"; it would just be doing what anyone could do

If you answer yes, then the only question I have is why do you doubt the stories in the Bible?

Because virtually every religion makes the same claim? Or because there's no empirical evidence that a supreme being has ever interacted with the universe?
Why do you doubt the Qur'an?

Why is it so hard to believe that an all-powerful being would do things that seem impossible according to our logic? Also, since He is all-powerful, and the stories in the Bible are true, then He made science. Therefore, shouldn't He be able to bend the laws of science?

This conclusion is erroneous. First because you have not proven the existence of a god. Then because you have not proven that the stories in the bible are true. And last but not least, even if you happened to prove both of those things, the conclusion is a blatant lie. Science is, more or less, the study of the universe. It was invented by humans.

This question is along the lines of question 3. There are no 'good people' in the world. Yes, there are people who do things that we consider 'great', 'heroic', 'noble', or even 'good'. But, in reality, people are all equal; lowly, wicked sinners and we all deserve death. God said that a Christian's life would be far from easy. This world is corrupt and everyone feels its sting throughout their lives. However, this world is only temporary and our lives are too short to be wasting our time wallowing in our troubles and all the bad things that happen to us. Everyone faces trials, it just depends on what we do with the time we are given.

This is a contradiction of what you said above.

This question is not a very difficult one to answer. If you understand the Bible, then you realize that it is full of metaphors, parables and symbolic relationships.

Some christians would disagree with you there. Oh, that's right. They don't really have a personal relationship with GAWD, you do.
They say the same thing about you, by the way.

When Jesus says that we are to eat of his body and drink of his blood, He did not mean physically (this is obviously not possible for us to do).

Why not? Cannibalism is quite simple. Grab a part from another human being and consume it.

He meant it to be a symbolic way for us to remember that He died on the cross for us.

No, he didn't. There's virtually no record of such a thing.

It's like when people wear poppy flowers on November 11th. Everyone wearing a poppy flower one day a year seems very strange unless you realize that they are showing respect for all those soldiers who gave their lives.

November 11th? I have no idea what that is.

In the same way, we eat and drink of Christ's body and blood as a way of showing that we will never forget how He paid for our sins by having His body broken and His blood spilled.

And that's why the Bible is disgusting.


These are a few of the questions that stood out to me from your video. I hope you do not get offended from this email but rather that you stop to think about what you're saying.

I did. Your email changed nothing.

Even if you do not believe in prayer, I have seen what it can do and I believe in the power that it holds. Therefore, I will be praying for you.

I find this slightly insulting, but I don't think you mean any harm, so I'll let it slide.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2011, 07:24:44 AM »
No such thing as an 'innocent' person?  &)
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."
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Offline jetson

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 07:24:59 AM »
I would bet that the OP has not read the entire Bible.  Sounds to me like this person does Bible study, but has never actually read the entire Bible.  This sounds to me like a very standardized Cliff's notes version that we have heard thousands of times.

They are doing a great job of indoctrination, aren't they?

Offline Dante

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2011, 07:47:17 AM »
Do you feel like a wretched sinner?

If so, its a horrible and uneccessary burden your parents have foisted upon you.

Guilt. For simply existing.

Why would your loving god punish you for a minor infraction your ancient ancestors committed? Does that  sound merciful and just? Its not.

Drop the delusion, drop the guilt, employ rational thought and join the 21st century. It's a wonderous place to live.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Aaron123

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2011, 10:20:31 AM »
Quote
First off, I would like to convey to you that there is no such thing as an 'innocent person'. You might think this sounds strange coming from a Christian, especially one that is not yet an adult. If you have read the Bible, then you must understand that everyone is corrupt. Ever since the Fall of Man (Adam and Eve) evil has been let loose in our world and has warped people from the start; Christians and non-Christians alike. Every person on this earth, everyone who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live, is only worthy of one thing: eternal death. The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is the fact that the former have accepted the salvation that is offered to everyone by our Creator.

How do you think people become sinful?  Are they born sinful?  If so, then it's not really their fault for being who they are.

Are babies deserving of "eternal death"?  That's a great thing to say about a baby!  "Congratulations!  Your newborn is healthy and beautiful.  Now it deserves to die just for being born!"

For that matter, animals dies too.  Do they sin?

Since god is all-knowing, was he aware that 99.99% of his creation would be flawed, sinful beings?  If so, why not make them so that they'd be less flawed, less sinful?
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2011, 10:37:42 AM »
Sigh...

Emails like this one make the brainwashing so painfully obvious. You look at what they're saying, and there's literally NO original thought in there at all. It's just a parrot that can type.

Tell ya what though, that whole "We are all corrupt, evil, bad, worthless, crappy crapholes full of crap and we're only worthy of ETERNAL DEATH (there's some other kind of death???)"... What a fucking sick way of thinking! And what a shitty thing to tell people. It's shit like that which compells me to stay as far away from religious types as possible. I don't want to be friends with somebody that thinks of people that way.

And I'd imagine it's also one of the many things that repels people from considering Christianity as their religion, as well. I mean, why the flying fuck would you want to join a religion that tells you you're a corrupt scumbag just for being born lol? What the hell kind of recruitment campaign is that?

Christianity:Where you and everybody you know is a natural born piece of shit! Sign up today!  &)


 
 
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Online One Above All

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2011, 10:42:11 AM »
And I'd imagine it's also one of the many things that repels people from considering Christianity as their religion, as well. I mean, why the flying fuck would you want to join a religion that tells you you're a corrupt scumbag just for being born lol? What the hell kind of recruitment campaign is that?

Speaking from personal experience with theists, usually those who believe that have low self-esteem.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline curiousgirl

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2011, 10:50:25 AM »
Congratulations, OP! You have successfully regurgitated your mainstream religious training like a good little girl! You probably just earned some shekels in your little treasure box in heaven!  &)

No seriously, honey, I am appalled. You know why? Because you sound like the former (drum roll, please) ME!!! You are going to need a lot of intellectual force, if you will, to escape the gravity of the rabbit hole you are currently falling deeper into. Stick around and buckle up. The truth ain't pretty, but it makes a lot more sense than what you've been spoon-fed.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2011, 03:33:42 PM »
I will be responding to the individual points made about the various questions.

#3:  Saying that everyone is corrupt from the start is nothing more than an after-the-fact rationalization used to excuse God for demanding the deaths of people who had themselves done nothing to deserve it.  It is exactly the same kind of logic used to excuse white people keeping black people as chattel slaves in the U.S, or to excuse feudal lords keeping most of their subjects as peasants, peons, and serfs from generation to generation.  They themselves did nothing to deserve such treatment, and the only reason they receive it is because someone more powerful says that they should.  That is nothing more than "might makes right".

It is the same thing with the salvation offered by God[1].  It is nothing more than the same mighty being who originally declared that all people were wretched sinners who deserved only death later declaring that they can avoid this fate if only they believe certain things.  It is still might making right.  And that is not justice.  Justice is about holding the mighty accountable to the same standard as everyone else; that must include God or it is not truly justice.

#4:  Your answer begs a number of questions and makes several assumptions that you cannot validate.  But the most notable problem with it is the simple fact that it does not explain why God is content to allow science to stand without interference.  Forget excuses like "God is hiding" or "God doesn't want to interfere with our free will".  God would not need to hide if he was all-powerful; God could explain things in a rational and sensible manner without taking away free will if he was all-knowing.  As far as God making exceptions to science, there might be some validity to this if we had ever found a single instance of such an exception that could not be explained due to knowable factors.

#6:  This is just an elaboration on the "everyone is a lowly, wicked sinner and deserves death" argument.  I have already stated my position on that, so instead I will posit an alternate explanation which fits the facts as we know them.

There was no "fall from grace".  What religious people call 'sins' are nothing more than instincts developed via the process of evolution in order to allow individuals the greatest possible chance of surviving and reproducing successfully.  Every single one of the "seven deadly sins" can be related to a behavior which we can observe in the natural world[2].  Morality came about as communities formed, in order to keep individuals from wrecking the community due to their instincts.  As morality developed, people discovered that telling a story-analogy was an effective method to spread morality.  Then the stories took on lives of their own as they were told and retold.  Because everyone in the community believed the stories, they became considered to be literally true.

#9:  Yes, the Bible is full of metaphors, parables, and symbolism.  That is exactly the point.  If the idea of eating Jesus's flesh and drinking Jesus's blood is a symbolic metaphor...then who is to say that Jesus himself is not also a symbolic metaphor, that the story of Jesus was just that, a story told by Christians in order to encourage a certain kind of morality in their community that took on a life of its own?  Who is to say that the stories in the Bible, the ones you just got done telling us not to doubt, are not also symbolic metaphors?
 1. Who, incidentally, did not even bring up the subject for thousands of years.
 2. Sloth is the natural instinct to conserve energy by not expending it needlessly; lust is the natural instinct to reproduce; anger is the natural instinct to fight back against something threatening; pride is the natural instinct to show off, essentially to intimidate without risking an actual confrontation; envy is the natural instinct to surpass others who are seen as superior in some way; gluttony is the natural instinct to hoard food against lean times; greed is the natural instinct to desire things that other people have, which are presumably easier to obtain from them than to go out and get elsewhere.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2011, 09:06:13 PM »
God will accept us if we accept Jesus.

I do not consent to have someone else die in My place, especially not to pay off a supernatural extortionist with a torture fetish.  I also have no problem with being rejected by your invisible friend, as I think your god and its heaven and its hell are all mythical.

Quote
God demanded the death of sinners, not innocent people.

Then your god, if it actually existed, would be a pathetic, whining bully unable to peacefully coexist with its own alleged creation.

And you worship this morally decrepit figment of the imagination?

And you have no problem accepting a blood sacrifice on your behalf?

In My opinion, your morality has been severely damaged by the nonsense you have been taught.  Please sit down in a quiet place and ask yourself why you believe these things.  Question it all, and consider the possibility that your god is not really there, and that there is no heaven waiting for you at the end of your life.  You have plenty of time to turn this around, and personally I think it's well worth the effort.
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Offline Emily

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2011, 09:26:57 PM »
God will accept us if we accept Jesus.

Jesus kind of sounds like that friend who you take out for dinner who pays for the meal without you even asking him, then the next time you guys go out for dinner he's like, "hey, I payed for your last meal, you owe me!"

Yeah, I don't owe him anything. He did it cause he wanted to (for whatever reason). I didn't ask him to sacrifice himself, so I shouldn't be obligated to owe him anything.
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2011, 10:46:47 PM »

Question #3 - Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?
First off, I would like to convey to you that there is no such thing as an 'innocent person'. You might think this sounds strange coming from a Christian, especially one that is not yet an adult. If you have read the Bible, then you must understand that everyone is corrupt. Ever since the Fall of Man (Adam and Eve) evil has been let loose in our world and has warped people from the start; Christians and non-Christians alike. Every person on this earth, everyone who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live, is only worthy of one thing: eternal death. The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is the fact that the former have accepted the salvation that is offered to everyone by our Creator. When Jesus died on the cross, He created a bridge between sinners and God. Let me give a quick analogy to further clarify what this means. God is Holy and He hates sin. Sin cannot survive in God's presence and since people are completely engulfed in their sins, neither can they if they are exposed to His glory. But, when Jesus died, He became a sort of lens that covers up our sin (forgives and forgets them), so that God can accept us. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14: 5-7). This means that, even though we are all equal and we are all wretched sinners, God will accept us if we accept Jesus. Now, with that said, I may answer the question. God demanded the death of sinners, not innocent people. This, however, only occurred in the Old Testament of the Bible. Jesus was born, lived, was crucified, conquered death and ascended to heaven in the New Testament. We must take into account that the laws of the Old Testament changed after Jesus paid for our sins on the cross. Before our sins were forgiven, even the most minor sins had to be punished. The punishment for sin is death, no matter how "bad" the sin may be. But, since Jesus paid the price for the sin of the world, we are pardoned for the sin we commit. So, in conclusion, since God is a just ruler, He had to punish those who sinned in the Old Testament. But, after Jesus died, God no longer needed to punish people.


Well, what a good writer you are! Your intelligence will not let you be a conservative Christian for very long, so you are going to have to learn to liberal-up a bit, because very soon you will encounter a question that you cannot answer within your religious framework.

I would like to point out to you that you appear to have ironed over a serious rift between the Old and New Testament. In old testament days, there was an expectation that adhering to the laws of God [as you could] would give you a long healthy, rich life. Some OT characters supposedly lived to 900. Job, who's book deals with the punishments of sin, lived until about 240. He started off being rich, and God left him twice as rich. That was the expectation of Jews of that era: God would make you prosperous and live a long life. You will notice that the OT is not full of statements [to the effect] that God will kill you if you sin. This is a cunning Christian subversion of the old Jewish religion.

It only took Jews about 400 years to work out that there was no correlation between how good you were, and how healthy or rich you were. Following the laws of God did not seem to net them any profit; only captivity. The priests realized that God was never going to consistently reward or punish anyone in this life, so they had to find a way to terrify people into following God's laws, and tell them about a [next] life that they could not verify either way. Hence, a religion that never had any concept of heaven or hell, largely because of its silence on the matter, was skillfully crafted to resemble the Babylonian religion. Satan became prominent and a resurrection was now promised; all of a sudden, in the synoptic gospel, hell popped out of nowhere. Hell is utterly incompatible with the old religion. So incompatible with the old religion, but so symmetrically compatible with the new religion, that people hardly notice the immense problem it presents.

I notice that you don't say that punishment for sin is hell. Why is that? Christianity effectively says that. But the person who first twisted the OT, Paul, did not appear to believe in hell. He was the first stepping stone, who coined, "the wages of sin is death". Yes, that is sort of compatible with what the Jewish religion says, but... hhmmmm... not quite, really.

Good luck with your Zoroastrianism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism#Basic_beliefs


Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline plethora

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2011, 08:55:07 AM »
Ever since the Fall of Man (Adam and Eve) evil has been let loose in our world and has warped people from the start;

Is this one of those literal parts of the bible or a metaphor? I ask because science has proven beyond a doubt that Adam and Eve did not exist, were not the first humans and that we evolved from apes. If they didn't exist, then this whole Fall of Man story falls through.

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Christians and non-Christians alike. Every person on this earth, everyone who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live, is only worthy of one thing: eternal death.

This is the most horrible, abhorrent, despicable part of your belief system. To accuse every single human being who ever existed of being a worthless wretch deserving of eternal death for the mere fact of existing.

I have a beautiful daughter. When she was born I held her in my arms... she was a brand new, innocent human life. I was overjoyed and she has grown into a wonderful 9 year old today. You are telling me she is nothing but a worthless wretch full of sin who only deserves eternal death? I realize you have been heavily indoctrinated so I won't insult you directly for this... but I will say that my usual response to anyone who suggests such a heinous idea is to get fucked.

Currently, 21,000 children die every day. That's 7.6 million children each year... or one child every 4 seconds. Are you seriously telling me they all deserve this???

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The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is the fact that the former have accepted the salvation that is offered to everyone by our Creator. When Jesus died on the cross, He created a bridge between sinners and God. Let me give a quick analogy to further clarify what this means. God is Holy and He hates sin. Sin cannot survive in God's presence and since people are completely engulfed in their sins, neither can they if they are exposed to His glory. But, when Jesus died, He became a sort of lens that covers up our sin (forgives and forgets them), so that God can accept us.

You said god is all-powerful. An all-powerful god has no limitations. It should be able to forgive us without having a human being tortured and killed in order to "build a bridge" between us. Not to mention an all-knowing god would have known in advance what his creation was going to be like, making the god directly responsible for everything that has happened.

I'm sorry ... but you need to take a good hard look at what you are saying here. Seriously.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2011, 01:00:19 PM »
First off, I would like to convey to you that there is no such thing as an 'innocent person'.
You might think this sounds strange coming from a Christian, especially one that is not yet an adult. If you have read the Bible, then you must understand that everyone is corrupt. Ever since the Fall of Man (Adam and Eve) evil has been let loose in our world and has warped people from the start; Christians and non-Christians alike. Every person on this earth, everyone who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live, is only worthy of one thing: eternal death.



I'm sure that there are plenty of Serial killers who have operated on this exact same premise. All people are corrupt and deserve to die. What an incredible sick and twisted thing your parent taught you to believe. I can't even get beyond this point because I'm just imagining someone saying this looking over their meat hook and butcher knife collection before going out hunting for their prey.



An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline C

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2011, 09:34:14 PM »
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Question #3 - Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?
First off, I would like to convey to you that there is no such thing as an 'innocent person'.


How do you define "innocent"? I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of innocent people, like, oh I don't know, a 3 year old kid playing in the sandbox?

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You might think this sounds strange coming from a Christian, especially one that is not yet an adult.

It sounds eerily similar to what some of us may have said when we were Christian before we grew the hell up out of being Christians.

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If you have read the Bible, then you must understand that everyone is corrupt.

According to the Bible, not anything else.

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Ever since the Fall of Man (Adam and Eve) evil has been let loose in our world and has warped people from the start; Christians and non-Christians alike. Every person on this earth, everyone who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live, is only worthy of one thing: eternal death. The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is the fact that the former have accepted the salvation that is offered to everyone by our Creator. When Jesus died on the cross, He created a bridge between sinners and God. Let me give a quick analogy to further clarify what this means. God is Holy and He hates sin. Sin cannot survive in God's presence and since people are completely engulfed in their sins, neither can they if they are exposed to His glory. But, when Jesus died, He became a sort of lens that covers up our sin (forgives and forgets them), so that God can accept us. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14: 5-7). This means that, even though we are all equal and we are all wretched sinners, God will accept us if we accept Jesus. Now, with that said, I may answer the question. God demanded the death of sinners, not innocent people. This, however, only occurred in the Old Testament of the Bible. Jesus was born, lived, was crucified, conquered death and ascended to heaven in the New Testament. We must take into account that the laws of the Old Testament changed after Jesus paid for our sins on the cross. Before our sins were forgiven, even the most minor sins had to be punished. The punishment for sin is death, no matter how "bad" the sin may be. But, since Jesus paid the price for the sin of the world, we are pardoned for the sin we commit. So, in conclusion, since God is a just ruler, He had to punish those who sinned in the Old Testament. But, after Jesus died, God no longer needed to punish people.

Um. Okay.
Two Things According to the Bible:

1) God is omnipotent (all-powerful)
2) God is omniscient (all-knowing)

There is absolutely no sane or logical reason such a God would've made non-Christians, sin even less, in the first place. That is like you making an entire assembly line of random stuffed toys all according to your designs then incinerating the ones that you DON'T LIKE and could have redesigned BEFORE you made them while shipping out the toys you like.

If a ruler had the same properties of God, he'd be more than "just", he'd be perfect. Sadly, the Christian God is the opposite of that word in every sense.

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Question #4 - Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
I am very interested in science. I am not in college but I know how science works.

That's quite a broad field..and you know how all of it works?


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The answer to this question was actually said by the narrator in the video. He asks the question "why would an all-knowing God write nonsense?"  All-knowing is the answer. God is all-knowing, this means that He is also all-powerful. Now, would you not agree that an all-powerful being would be able to easily turn the impossible into possible? If you are to answer no, then that would make you contradictory to what you stated in your video as you said that He is all-knowing and only an all-powerful being could be all-knowing. If you answer yes, then the only question I have is why do you doubt the stories in the Bible? Why is it so hard to believe that an all-powerful being would do things that seem impossible according to our logic? Also, since He is all-powerful, and the stories in the Bible are true, then He made science. Therefore, shouldn't He be able to bend the laws of science?

Okay, let's say he can turn the impossible into the possible. Why even bother with setting up specific laws or properties of the universe for your living creations to inhabit and enjoy off of (somehow) if you're just going to skip over the rules and do whatever the hell you want? Moreover, the content in the Bible is beyond contradicting science, it's baffling how stupid, unscientific and ignorant the authors could have been.

Example: Genesis 1:3 - Basically, God says 'Let there be light'.
Then, (Genesis 1:14-16) God creates the sun, moon and stars.

If you think natural light does not come from our sun nor the stars, I suggest you review basic natural science before you go off to college.

Furthermore, you'd think a God who can turn the impossible into the possible would..intervene a bit more. Disease for instance. Wouldn't hurt to divert suffering and grief away from a family that's losing their children to a random disease.

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Question #6 - Why do bad things happen to good people?
This question is along the lines of question 3. There are no 'good people' in the world.

There are plenty of good people in the world. Doctors Without Borders, the Red Cross, every day citizens of the world helping each other out, Japanese civilians returning found money and safes to the authorities in the wake of the recent earthquake, parents adopting orphans, the young helping the elderly.


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Yes, there are people who do things that we consider 'great', 'heroic', 'noble', or even 'good'. But, in reality, people are all equal; lowly, wicked sinners and we all deserve death. God said that a Christian's life would be far from easy. This world is corrupt and everyone feels its sting throughout their lives. However, this world is only temporary and our lives are too short to be wasting our time wallowing in our troubles and all the bad things that happen to us. Everyone faces trials, it just depends on what we do with the time we are given.

Does it not disgust you that your religion demotes everyone to the status of naughty cattle waiting in line at the slaughterhouse no matter the degrees of good a lot of people do? Take a step back, don't be Christian for just 30 seconds, think as a person who's never heard of God and read what you wrote.


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These are a few of the questions that stood out to me from your video. I hope you do not get offended from this email but rather that you stop to think about what you're saying. Even if you do not believe in prayer, I have seen what it can do and I believe in the power that it holds. Therefore, I will be praying for you.

Care to actually share this power with amputees or the sick anytime soon?

The Second C

Offline Timo

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2011, 01:14:12 PM »
Some quick points.

If you have read the Bible, then you must understand that everyone is corrupt. Ever since the Fall of Man (Adam and Eve) evil has been let loose in our world and has warped people from the start; Christians and non-Christians alike. Every person on this earth, everyone who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live, is only worthy of one thing: eternal death.

I've heard this point made, but if you read your Bible, you'd understand that not everyone dies.

Remember Enoch?  Enoch, Adam's great grandson, did not die but was taken directly to be with Yah.[1]  In fact, while he's only mentioned briefly in Genesis, there is a whole ancient Jewish tradition built around him.  Some apocryphal works even have him transforming into the Metatron, the angel that speaks God's words.[2]  And what about Elijah?  Elijah did not die either.  He was taken directly to heaven[3] after having dedicated his life preaching about the glory of Yahweh, performing miracles and even raising the dead.[4]

If the wages of sin are death, and all of us are sinners then why weren't these men, men who couldn't have possibly benefited in Jesus' sacrifice, spared from death?

As for good and evil and all of that, let me just say that if you truly believe that an infant can't properly be called innocent, then you are using the word in a way completely divorced from the way that most of us understand.it.  And, in any case, it's not as if we don't find that there are such a thing as good and bad people in the Bible.  For example, there is a formula that's repeated throughout the descriptions of the rulers of Judah and Israel.  We find that the kings are said to have either "done right in the eyes of Yahweh" or they are said to have "done evil" in His eyes.[5]  I know that this is not the same as saying that any of these kings are being depicted as "innocent," but I think that it's at least evidence that the notion that we are all equally sinful and therefore equally deserving of death in God's sight is not really something most of the Biblical writers seemed to have believed.

God is Holy and He hates sin. Sin cannot survive in God's presence and since people are completely engulfed in their sins, neither can they if they are exposed to His glory.


Again, I've heard this point made, but if you read your Bible, you'd understand that sometimes people survive exposure to the Lord's glory.

Remember Abraham and Sarah?  Not only did they share a tasty meal with God and some angels, Sarah questioned God's omnipotence and even laughed at him.  She did this to His face and then lied to Him about it.[6]  But she seemed to have survived just fine, sin and all.  And what about Jesus?  Is Jesus God?  If so, then how was it that all that sin was able to survive the pressence of His glory and all that?  Honestly, I think the whole question of Christology to be very confusing and so I really don't know what to make of boilerplate Christian doctrine like this:

Jesus was born, lived, was crucified, conquered death and ascended to heaven in the New Testament. We must take into account that the laws of the Old Testament changed after Jesus paid for our sins on the cross. Before our sins were forgiven, even the most minor sins had to be punished. The punishment for sin is death, no matter how "bad" the sin may be. But, since Jesus paid the price for the sin of the world, we are pardoned for the sin we commit. So, in conclusion, since God is a just ruler, He had to punish those who sinned in the Old Testament. But, after Jesus died, God no longer needed to punish people.

How is it that Christ covers our sins?  And if a sacrifice can cover our sins, then why wouldn't we have been able to go on trying our damndest to adhere to the law--offering sin offerings to Yah when we failed?  After all, this is something that the Bible depicts God's chosen people as having done for thousands of years (with varying degrees of fidelity) as He instructed them to.  Also, if God knew we'd fail all along, why didn't He offer Jesus in the begining instead of instituting those codes that Paul seemed to think couldn't possibly have made us righteous?[7]

And in any case, how is it that a blood sacrifice of an unblemished animal or demigod to God makes us less guilty or deserving of punishment?  I don't get it.

I just can't believe that there are people that truly believe that a child is not an innocent.  And that there is therefore no difference between killing a child and a murderer.  That's despicable.  And the fact that you would twist up scripture to justify this interpretation is all the more disgusting.

I know this is just you regurgitating what you were taught at church, but I just hope you grow out of this.
 1. Genesis 5:24
 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Enoch
 3. 2 Kings 2:11-12
 4. 1 Kings 17:22
 5. Josiah, for example, is a good boy.  2 Kings 22:2.
 6. Genesis 18
 7. Gal 3:10-12
Nah son...

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Response to your 10 Questions Video [#2606]
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2011, 05:40:07 PM »
She is intelligent, but the negative forces are strong within her.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.