THIS IS IT! This is our point of contention. It has little to nothing to do with what an atheist or a believer can or can't say, it has everything to do with how one interacts and responds to people with whom they disagree in certain settings.
I believe the offensive behavior to be the combative unanticipated and unprovoked response to a statement by an individual that simply reflects their belief or understanding. It seems that you feel it's appropriate and okay to jump on someone the moment they say something with which you disagree no matter if that person is NOT initiating or expecting a "discussion." To me, that's rude, self serving, uncalled for, and depending on who it is that you respond that way to, an invite for conflict that is unnecessary.
Yes it is and you have *yet* to show when there is a point one can tell a theist they are wrong and not cross your personally declared uncrossable lines of “appropriate”, “common sense” and “time and place”. You throw a little fit, cursing up a storm as if that makes a shred of difference in your argument.
There is no time for a theist where they will not find being told that they are wrong “combative, unantipated, and unprovoked”. That’s been my stance all along and you have *yet* to show me I’m wrong. You want to claim that any reponse by a atheist to “I’ll pray for you” other than “thanks”, is a horrible horrible thing. And it’s simply not true, aka it’s a lie, ginned up for your own comfort.
You have yet to admit that a theist is self-serving, and uncalled for when saying “I’ll pray for you.” Not, “do you mind if I pray for you.” nothing but a declaration that they think they can do what they want and that it will have some effect, which it won’t, other than a selfish desire to self-affirm their religion and try to find external validation for it for themselves.
Velkyn, I totally missed this in my earlier response.
What I think you are not acknowledging, excuse me, what it is you are asserting is NOT what's being done at all. The believer that says "I'll pray for you" is not attempting to get you to discuss or acknowledge their God. It seems you are reading way more into the scenario than need be, and doing so changes the discussion from that of an innocent and harmless personal expression of concern to one of uninvited preaching. The two are vastly distinct subjects that allow for vastly distinct and vastly differing acceptable responses.
And you saying and concluding that I am advocating giving religion a pass is you building up a strawman to tear down because that is not at all what I am advocating.
Nope, you are wrong, and not surprisingly so considering your other posts. You have yet to show me what I’m asserting is not being done at all. You have NO way to know, and are basing your assumptions on a presupposition based on your desire to see religion in a positive light.
The believer in this scenario has decided that they need to tell me that they are praying for me. Why, TOT? Tell me the reason and how you know it exactly. For me the answer could be one of two (there could be more and please feel free to expand on this) 1. They assume I am a theist who agrees with them.
and/or 2. They think their beliefs have some impact on reality.
They are wrong on both counts. I am not a theist and don’t want to be prayed for and would want them to put their time to actual good use. Prayers fail every single time. Even if they are the typical thoughtless theist, there is NO reason not to correct them. You assume an “innocent” and “harmless” personal expression and you try to make this a reason *not* to educate someone incase it harms their feelings. I do find it uninvited preaching. You may not. However, this is not about you, it’s about me or an atheist like me. For instance, I have the flu at the moment. I feel bad but too restless to sleep so I’m posting. Why would I possibly want someone to wander into my room saying “I’ll pray for you.”? What does this do except annoy me and let a theist remain tight in their delusion? Especially if they knew I was an atheist? Where is the *real* concern for me, if they actually cared about me, not some thoughtless prating?
IF you are not advocating giving religion a pass, I’ll ask you this: what would you say to a friend who came into your room and said “I’m going to kill a goat by cutting its throat so you get better.” or “I’m going to hook you up to this electroshock device so you get better.” (my grandfather had a great bit of medical quackery from the 19th century, a box that could build up quite a shock that was for “medical purposes”. Do you “say, sure go ahead” or do you say “no, please don’t, you are wrong.”??
Other than the fact that the person that says they will be praying for you might actually pray for you, is there any real difference between saying "I'll be praying for you" as opposed to saying "You'll be on my mind and I'll be wishing you well?"
I catogorize both statements under the: I know the situation's outta my hands and I can probably do nothing to genuinely help you, but since it would seem less than nice if I said nothing and saying nothing may make me feel like I'm uncaring for whatever hard to explain reason, I'll just say this catagory.
And again you are making assumptions for your own purposes, TOT. How do you know this is how the believer feels? What if the believer doesn’t agree with you and they really believe? You seem to be unilaterally deciding that they are as waffly as you are in their beliefs to try to give this hypothetical believer all of the benefit of the doubt.