Author Topic: Would you be offended?  (Read 4068 times)

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Offline YY

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Would you be offended?
« on: October 11, 2011, 05:59:57 PM »
So, I just heard that someone I know was in a car accident. I don't know their religios affiliation, but if they were atheist (and I didn't know it), would it be offensive to say something like:

I’ll be praying for your full and quick recovery . . .

?

Offline Eaten by Bears

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 06:02:24 PM »
It would depend on the person. They've probably got better things to worry about right now that being offended by prayer. They might roll their eyes though, probably better to stick with neutrality and just say 'I hope you get better soon'.

Offline YY

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 06:09:46 PM »
Good idea.

Online jetson

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 07:42:11 PM »
I would not appreciate it at all.  But I also understand that many theists simply don't know what else to say.

Offline violatedsmurf80

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 07:43:32 PM »
I would not, I would just say what ever makes you feel safe in a rough world.
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”--- Sinclair Lewis

I believe there is something out there watching over us. Unfortunately, it's the government.

Offline Irish

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 08:52:44 PM »
I would feel offended.
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 09:37:32 PM »

I’ll be praying for your full and quick recovery . . .


I would get sick, just to prove that your prayers weren't working.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Timo

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 09:47:42 PM »
I would appreciate the sentiment.  Their heart's in the right place.
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Offline dloubet

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 09:53:17 PM »
But is their heart in the right place? Are they praying for you out of a sincere wish for your recovery, or are they praying to avoid hellfire and get a better mansion in heaven?

Are they being loving, or self-serving?

This is what the phrase "poisons everything" was meant to convey.
Denis Loubet

Offline Timo

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 10:04:48 PM »
I obviously can't know what's going on in someone's head.  But I've never really had the suspicion that when someone says something like "I'll keep you in my prayers" that they're really only motivated by fear of hell fire.  I think that when I say "I hope you get better" we're communicating basically the same idea.  We just wrap it up in different language.  I mean, I might say "have a nice day" to someone.  My cousin, who's religious, would probably say "have a blessed day" instead.  It's just a different accent on the same thought.

Where I think the fear of hell fire comes into play is when their religion says that they shouldn't do something that they might otherwise want to do.  I think that most people would want to wish me well regardless of whether or not they're religious in that sort of scenario.  So no.  I think their heart would probably be in the right place.
Nah son...

Offline wright

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 10:29:35 PM »
I don't find it offensive to have believers say they'll pray for me. Perhaps a little irritating, but unless I have good reason to think they're rubbing their religion in my face, I see it as essentially harmless.

Now, if I had been seriously injured and my doctor were to say that before starting to treat me, I'd be terrified... :o
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline YY

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2011, 01:05:40 AM »

I’ll be praying for your full and quick recovery . . .


I would get sick, just to prove that your prayers weren't working.

lol

Offline YY

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2011, 01:09:57 AM »
I obviously can't know what's going on in someone's head.  But I've never really had the suspicion that when someone says something like "I'll keep you in my prayers" that they're really only motivated by fear of hell fire.  I think that when I say "I hope you get better" we're communicating basically the same idea.  We just wrap it up in different language.  I mean, I might say "have a nice day" to someone.  My cousin, who's religious, would probably say "have a blessed day" instead.  It's just a different accent on the same thought.

Kinda same topic, but kinda not, I find it truly hilarious that people get offended when you wish them "Merry Christmas" and they might be Jewish. It's gotten to a point of political correctness washout.

Why don't people just take it as the person wishing you "Merry Christmas" is expressing sentiment of "Happy Holidays" in their own language? And in turn, why can't they accept a "Happy Channukkah" on the understanding that the person wishing it is Jewish?

Unbelieveable.

Offline natlegend

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 01:43:13 AM »
When my born-again aunt says she'll pray for me I don't feel offended so much as... extremely uncomfortable. So no, if I was laying in a bed in pain I wouldn't want someone to tell me they would pray for me.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Timo

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 02:28:56 AM »
I obviously can't know what's going on in someone's head.  But I've never really had the suspicion that when someone says something like "I'll keep you in my prayers" that they're really only motivated by fear of hell fire.  I think that when I say "I hope you get better" we're communicating basically the same idea.  We just wrap it up in different language.  I mean, I might say "have a nice day" to someone.  My cousin, who's religious, would probably say "have a blessed day" instead.  It's just a different accent on the same thought.

Kinda same topic, but kinda not, I find it truly hilarious that people get offended when you wish them "Merry Christmas" and they might be Jewish. It's gotten to a point of political correctness washout.

Why don't people just take it as the person wishing you "Merry Christmas" is expressing sentiment of "Happy Holidays" in their own language? And in turn, why can't they accept a "Happy Channukkah" on the understanding that the person wishing it is Jewish?

Unbelieveable.

Around the end of Ramadan, I sometimes say "Eid Mubarack" to people.  They just look at me funny.  But that's because they're infidels.
Nah son...

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2011, 05:39:15 AM »
.....would it be offensive to say something like:
I’ll be praying for your full and quick recovery . . .

Just bear in mind that what you appear to be saying is "unless I can change god's plan for you, you'll stay sick because that's what he wants for you" - not entirely comforting!   :D

Not sure it woul offend me, but it would certainly annoy me.  Probably best, as has been said, to stick to "get well soon" if you don't know their beliefs.

Or, better yet, "is there anything I can do for you / get you?"  A practical expression of concern that will definitely give them some immediate help.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline theczar

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2011, 08:36:22 AM »
So, I just heard that someone I know was in a car accident. I don't know their religios affiliation, but if they were atheist (and I didn't know it), would it be offensive to say something like:

I’ll be praying for your full and quick recovery . . .

?
Think about it from their perspective. They truly believe prayer to be useless, a waste of time.

It would mean a hell of a lot more to say, "I hope you have a quick recovery, if there is anything I can do to help you during this time, please don't hesitate to ask".

This shows you are actually willing to do something, rather than just spend 10 seconds saying a little prayer.

Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2011, 10:24:21 AM »
So, I just heard that someone I know was in a car accident. I don't know their religios affiliation, but if they were atheist (and I didn't know it), would it be offensive to say something like:

I’ll be praying for your full and quick recovery . . .

?

I love Dan Dennett's response to people who say they are praying for him:-- ""Well, thank you very much, and will you be sacrificing a goat as well ?! ""

Yes, it's very offensive to make that statement to someone in a difficult or desperate situation ! It's not about whether the person is offended or not, it's about one having enough common sense to keep their big deluded trap shut ! Good luck with that !

A person who is struggling with their health, or any other serious matter, shouldn't have to put up with the claptrap of the deluded, and the misleading and untrue promises that goddini and his magical healing show should begin momentarily when they get done being on their knees in petition.

"I'll be praying for you" is said mainly because 1.) they feel their skydaddy is in fact watching the conversation and must therefore suck up to and impress the big guy first and foremost 2.) They feel that even though it's highly unlikely that their prayer will be answered, they've got nothing to lose by making the statement and can only save face and gain further points with daddy if the outcome, by chance, turned out favorable for the one suffering(He forgets though that daddy sees his doubts in the first place and makes note of it in the book ;))
3.) And finally, even though he doubts, or is perhaps even truly sincere, he says such a thing because he's simply an inconsiderate and immature fool. There's no other way to describe it. A fool. Petitioning the supposed magical and invisible power in an unnatural and absurd idea, to bring help to a natural problem in our reality, is the earmark, dare I say benchmark, of being a mentally abnormal infantile behaving idiot....They don't see it that way of course, but it is what it is, and we certainly can't be faulted for being able to see it or pointing it out to them.

Last year my older sister said she was going to pray for me as I went in for a day procedure in the hospital. My exact words to her were ""I love you sis, and thanks for your genuine concern, but please don't do pray for me, and please stop insulting my intelligence by telling me you're going to, and finally please stop embarrassing yourself by doing such acts of futility..prayer doesn't work sis.""

Guess who got offended and hasn't talked to me much this past year ?   :( 




"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2011, 10:33:06 AM »
I would find it very offensive and self serving.  Depending on my mood, probably unhappy and in pain, I would also ask the person who wanted to pray "really?  And go against the will of your god? He certainly let this happen to me, right?"  or "really?  You can command this god of yours? Okay get to it! Well......what are you waiting for?"
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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2011, 10:48:37 AM »
I'd probably say "Instead of prayer, how about more morphine? It works faster."
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Nam

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2011, 11:27:43 AM »
The guy at Subway[1] recently told me to "have a blessed day" -- I just rolled my eyes[2].

-Nam
 1. the restaurant not the underground railing system
 2. I thanked him, left, and then rolled my eyes
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Truth OT

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2011, 11:43:21 AM »
Last year my older sister said she was going to pray for me as I went in for a day procedure in the hospital. My exact words to her were ""I love you sis, and thanks for your genuine concern, but please don't do pray for me, and please stop insulting my intelligence by telling me you're going to, and finally please stop embarrassing yourself by doing such acts of futility..prayer doesn't work sis.""

Guess who got offended and hasn't talked to me much this past year ?   :(

Why do you allow the sentiments of believers, especially a believer like your sister that obviously cares for you, to bother you so much that you would respond to her sentiment in such a condescending and "politely" mean manner?
You may in fact "know better" than the believer, so with that in mind, why not act better by holding yourself to a better standard of behavior than what your response indicated? She was expressing concern for you, and you responsed to her expression by saying something that obviously and seemingly was deliberately hurtful to her. Such a response is very similar to a child's temper tantrum and for those of us that know better, be ought to do better than that.

I think Wright had the right ( no pun intended) attitude by saying that: "Perhaps a little irritating, but unless I have good reason to think they're rubbing their religion in my face, I see it as essentially harmless."
Bottom line is that our reaction to that which irritates us is controllable and we need to exercise discression and self control when facing irritation, especially mild or harmless types.

Offline Eaten by Bears

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2011, 11:58:17 AM »
The guy at Subway[1] recently told me to "have a blessed day" -- I just rolled my eyes[2].

-Nam
 1. the restaurant not the underground railing system
 2. I thanked him, left, and then rolled my eyes

I would probably respond with "And may Santa bring you many presents this year".

Offline velkyn

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2011, 12:03:45 PM »
TOT, if you didn't notice GG thanked her.  Smiling and accepting her nonsense is not holding on to some "better standard of behavior".  Being honest with her is.   It is not a "temper tantrum"(quite the hyperbole there), it's telling her what you feel which is supported by plenty of evidence.  Why is it always the atheist that has to sit down and shut up, or as you would have it "exercise discretion and self-control" for fear of hurting some theist's feelings?  What about my feelings?

And to you it's harmless, to me it's letting someone retain their willful ignorance and assumption that everyone agrees with them.  What if I had a sister, was hurt or going in for surgery and she said "I'm going to pray for you."  and that's all she thought was necessary, not to help me, not to have the surgery, just her prayers?   Not so harmless now. 
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2011, 12:45:40 PM »
TOT, if you didn't notice GG thanked her.  Smiling and accepting her nonsense is not holding on to some "better standard of behavior".  Being honest with her is.   It is not a "temper tantrum"(quite the hyperbole there), it's telling her what you feel which is supported by plenty of evidence.  Why is it always the atheist that has to sit down and shut up, or as you would have it "exercise discretion and self-control" for fear of hurting some theist's feelings?  What about my feelings?

And to you it's harmless, to me it's letting someone retain their willful ignorance and assumption that everyone agrees with them.  What if I had a sister, was hurt or going in for surgery and she said "I'm going to pray for you."  and that's all she thought was necessary, not to help me, not to have the surgery, just her prayers?   Not so harmless now.

Why Velkyn, why would you allow the sentiments of a well meaning believer bother you so much that you would respond to their well-meaning sentiment in a condescending and pseudo-polite manner?
"Letting someone retain their willful ignorance and assumption" that others share their sentiments is harmful in such an example as the one that GG provided? How?

And the whole whiny-pinyness about being the victim that always has to "sit down and shut up" is unwarranted here because I never said or implied that that was the case. Had the sister said something along the lines of: "Hold my hands and let's pray together so that if you don't make it your soul won't be damned to Hell", then we'd be having a different discussion and she would need to STFU. But that isn't the scenario here at all. Here we have a caring sister wishing her brother well and expressing her intent to do something that she believes will benefit his circumstance that requires NOTHING of or from him. What you describe as being honest with her as the better standard for behavior is the virtual equivalent to a believer forcefully proclaiming to gospel to you against your wishes. Such behavior is what what one should be offended by.

Offline YY

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2011, 01:20:16 PM »
Or, better yet, "is there anything I can do for you / get you?"  A practical expression of concern that will definitely give them some immediate help.

Yes, that was definitely included.

Offline YY

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2011, 01:38:29 PM »
I'd probably say "Instead of prayer, how about more morphine? It works faster."

lol

Offline YY

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2011, 01:39:59 PM »
The guy at Subway[1] recently told me to "have a blessed day" -- I just rolled my eyes[2].

-Nam
 1. the restaurant not the underground railing system
 2. I thanked him, left, and then rolled my eyes

Somehow, and I don't know why, this sounds like evangelism. I can see how this can be offensive to say it willy nilly to the general public in a secular place of busines. Now, if it was a church or Chick-fil-a, maybe . . .

Offline Truth OT

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Re: Would you be offended?
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2011, 02:01:56 PM »
So, I just heard that someone I know was in a car accident. I don't know their religios affiliation, but if they were atheist (and I didn't know it), would it be offensive to say something like:

I’ll be praying for your full and quick recovery . . .

Here's my question for you. What is your purpose and therefore the intent behind you saying anything to them at all?