Painful argument with a Christian

[Add Homonym]

the same literal God as religious people do. Their 'God' is conveniently packaged to cater to their needs and wants.

Literal God wants to be feared, and demands that adherents' firstborn be redeemed. Literal God makes wagers with Satan to wreck people's lives.

Actual God gives retarded and deformed children to Christian parents. Actual God sends earthquakes to nuclear reactors, and tsumanis to Indians. Actual God gave us syphilis and herpes, to wreck sex. Actual God couldn't give a shit if our star exploded.

[velkyn]

Hi curiousgirl:), ty for your response. I'm not an atheist but I don't believe in the same literal God as religious people do. Their 'God' is conveniently packaged to cater to their needs and wants.

so, describe how your god isn't "literal" and how your god differs from every other theists' god.  Do you consider yourself a Deist? Pantheist? 

[screwtape]

he's just metaphorically religious.

[gonegolfing]

Hi curiousgirl:), ty for your response. I'm not an atheist but I don't believe in the same literal God as religious people do. Their 'God' is conveniently packaged to cater to their needs and wants.[/b]

Yup, just like yours 

Give us time, and you'll more than likely have your back up as well when we confront you about your particular version of a god. 

Actually, choosing a god is like having to choose a paint colour:-- to many god damned choices !!

So which colour did you choose mate ?

Cheers

[kaziglu bey]

I have not even heard back from my friend since my last response to her. I do not know what this means at this point, but I think I might have bruised her ego. It's so hard to actually have a debate with my Christian friends without offending them. Personally I am not offended at all, I really don't care what someone says about their faith or my lack thereof. I think some of the most devoted Christians "find God" at a very desperate time in their life, it fills some void in their existence, they latch on, and cling for life, scared of letting go. thinking that if they do, God will hurl them back into their most desperate nightmare. It's really kind of pitiful. It's also how you get things like the Manson Family, Waco, the Heaven's Gate cult, and Warren Jeffs. Desperate people, looking for hope and attention, protection and purpose, deceived by false promises of eternal life and a benevolent God, easily molded into spiritual slaves, zombies of the Horde of Christ, taught to practice self deception as a means of escaping reality and gaining eternal bliss. Easily molded, easily controlled. Religion is just mind control.

[Truth OT]

It's so hard to actually have a debate with my Christian friends without offending them. Personally I am not offended at all, I really don't care what someone says about their faith or my lack thereof. I think some of the most devoted Christians "find God" at a very desperate time in their life, it fills some void in their existence, they latch on, and cling for life, scared of letting go. thinking that if they do, God will hurl them back into their most desperate nightmare. It's really kind of pitiful. It's also how you get things like the Manson Family, Waco, the Heaven's Gate cult, and Warren Jeffs. Desperate people, looking for hope and attention, protection and purpose, deceived by false promises of eternal life and a benevolent God, easily molded into spiritual slaves, zombies of the Horde of Christ, taught to practice self deception as a means of escaping reality and gaining eternal bliss. Easily molded, easily controlled. Religion is just mind control.

Kind of a rough charactorization IMO. I think it's more likely that most religious folks have similarities to those born into poverty or an "at risk" situation. Most are born into a religious affiliation and culture that they grow up a part of, so it becomes a part of them, and once they have grown up, it's typically stays with them because that culture helped to mold them into the person they are as an adult.
It becomes a cycle that is taught to break as it is entrenched into families for generations and it is in many ways a way of life. That level of engulfment is very difficult to rid oneself of and often requires a long process of battling to get loosed from.

[curiousgirl]

Hi curiousgirl:), ty for your response. I'm not an atheist but I don't believe in the same literal God as religious people do. Their 'God' is conveniently packaged to cater to their needs and wants.

Well, if you "don't believe in the same literal God as religious people do," what God do you believe in, and how is he/she/it not "conveniently packaged to cater" to your needs and wants?

[screwtape]

It's so hard to actually have a debate with my Christian friends without offending them.

Word.  They are delicate flowers.

[Add Homonym]

I have not even heard back from my friend since my last response to her.

Job well done.

[kaziglu bey]

Kind of a rough charactorization IMO. I think it's more likely that most religious folks have similarities to those born into poverty or an "at risk" situation. Most are born into a religious affiliation and culture that they grow up a part of, so it becomes a part of them, and once they have grown up, it's typically stays with them because that culture helped to mold them into the person they are as an adult.
It becomes a cycle that is taught to break as it is entrenched into families for generations and it is in many ways a way of life. That level of engulfment is very difficult to rid oneself of and often requires a long process of battling to get loosed from.

Fair enough, I can see your point. I suppose i was a little aggressive in my evaluation. I guess my point is really that, at least as far as the people I know are concerned, the ones who seem to be the most deeply sucked in and delusional are the ones who have some sort of major trauma in their lives, and also had some sort of "Revelation" of God at that time that cemented their faith. (Again, this is just in my experience.) I am in no way faulting these folks for finding the power to overcome the tragic moments in their life, but I think its a shame for them to attribute their renewed strength and hope to god instead of themselves, and I think its also a shame that there are those who do take advantage of people in such situations, leading them into a lifelong state of denial, instead of helping them heal in a reality based way.

[kcrady]

he's just metaphorically religious.

For some reason, as I read this, I heard it in the sing-song tones of the end of a Lucky Charms commercial.  "He's me-ta-phor-ic-ly religious!"

[velkyn]

Fair enough, I can see your point. I suppose i was a little aggressive in my evaluation. I guess my point is really that, at least as far as the people I know are concerned, the ones who seem to be the most deeply sucked in and delusional are the ones who have some sort of major trauma in their lives, and also had some sort of "Revelation" of God at that time that cemented their faith. (Again, this is just in my experience.) I am in no way faulting these folks for finding the power to overcome the tragic moments in their life, but I think its a shame for them to attribute their renewed strength and hope to god instead of themselves, and I think its also a shame that there are those who do take advantage of people in such situations, leading them into a lifelong state of denial, instead of helping them heal in a reality based way.

Not surprisingly, I don’t find your characterization “aggressive” at all, KB.  The people that most of us are around aren’t the desperate or the poor.  They are middle class people who have nothing to really be afraid of.  They use modern science to get what they want, and this imaginary god does nothing.  But they return to it like a dog to vomit. 
You can show them they are wrong but as you have noted, they are quickly offended as soon as you dare disagree with them, especially when they have no answers.  Their self-worth is so wrapped up in these myths that it is truly, truly sad that adults are so infantilized.  It is indeed a part of them, to the point that there is *no* time you can’t tell them you are an atheist and they are wrong and not have them be in a tizzy.   This goes back to the one thread where I’ve asked “when” it’s okay to discuss this with a believer.   

[DTE]

  nt

[Ambassador Pony]

The prophecies were true!

DTE has returned.

[kcrady]

Ha!  Awesome!  As I was scrolling down I saw the Deconversion Formula^tm and thought, 'Hey, that's DTE's formula.'  Then I looked, and lo, the poster using it was none other than DTE himself!  Welcome back, DTE!  I thought a couple of those Mayan hieroglyphs in the Long Count Prophecy O' Doom (or is it Sudden Global Enlightenment, the New Agers can't seem to get that straight) looked like you.

[screwtape]

kewl

[Gnu Ordure]

Hey DTE, welcome back.

Gnu.

PS You may remember me from the little episode on RationalWiki earlier this year, when I tried to delete your real name from the article on SPAG and substitute 'DTE' for it? Sooo embarrassing - I'd be grateful if you wouldn't mention it. Thanks.