Author Topic: Curiosity [#2602]  (Read 1601 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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Curiosity [#2602]
« on: October 09, 2011, 11:40:03 AM »
What does the atheist community think of the bible itself, specifically the teachings of the old testament and the new testament?
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline One Above All

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2011, 11:43:05 AM »
Each individual atheist has different opinions
If you're asking about specific Bible verses then, IMO, for example, "Don't steal" is good but "Kill homosexuals" is bad
If you're talking about the Bible as a whole then, IMO, it's just a (poorly written) story book
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline omniweasel

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2011, 12:07:27 PM »
i'm a firm believer in ripping someone's hair out, stripping them naked and beating and scratching them while running them out of town for eating meat on a friday.  ;D

Offline Historicity

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2011, 01:50:51 PM »
Once Jupiter and Mercury were disguised as poor humans when They went out for a walk.  They came to a town.  They said They were broke but if someone had work They'd do it or could they get something to eat and a place out of the weather for the night...   They were told that vagrants had to keep on moving.  And again and again.  Everyone in the town agreed with this attitude.  Priests at the local temple must have agreed.

On a hill overlooking the town They asked again and an old couple, Baucis and Philemon, invited them in.  They had supper with them and slept on the front porch.  At breakfast They told the couple They had to be moving on.  Suddenly an outline of glowing purple light surrounded Them[1]  They identified Themselves and the couple groveled.  They told them to rise. Then They showed them the city below.  For its inhospitality They had sunk it beneath the sea including the temple.  They granted the old couple immortality and then went back to Heaven (=Mt. Olympus).

They forgot to give the old couple eternal youth.  As they got more feeble and could not die they pleaded with the Immortal Gods for one more boon.  The 2 were turned into 2 trees, an oak and a linden and when the breeze blows you can hear the old folks in their eternal retirement whispering, "I love you".

I had a friend who made a hippy trip thru Europe to see the art.  Traveling with another American, they came finally to a Greek island.  They came to an old village by the sea.  There was no lodging.  The owner of the local tavern told them they could sleep on his porch.  While the Greeks have changed their religion the virtue of xenia "hospitality" remained.  The next morning they turned to the trek home.

Quote
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
 ...

25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me."

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, "Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?"

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels ..."

The point is that people intertwine their wisdom and morality into their fables.  The Bible has a lot of such wise observations.  So does Greek mythology and the Tao Te Ching.  Some of these lessons are the same.  So do some traditional north European fables. 

Some however have horrendous moral advice about killing and robbing the unwary.  If you give supernatural sanction to any of them as a presupposition you are hauling in a lot of junk -- at least. 

(I'm trying to be nice about this.)

 1. The movie Xanadu has been ridiculed for this but the movie had it accurate.

Offline Nick

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2011, 04:01:14 PM »
Poorly put together book stealing bits and pieces from other religions along the way.  Used to justify lots and lots of killing.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline curiousgirl

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2011, 04:35:20 PM »
I think the Biblical teachings are an attempt by patriarchal men, through the use of their self-projection as God (SPAG), to have control over the majority with their own flavor of subjective morality. They are also a way of dealing with the human fear of death, the need to be loved, the need to feel important, the need to have a purpose, etc.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline MMcNeely

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2011, 04:39:19 PM »
There are many good principles in the Bible.  Don't steal, don't murder, love your neighbor for example.  On a whole the Bible is a barbaric, racist, genocidal book... and I would be happy to burn a copy or two.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2011, 05:09:39 PM »
Glimpses of brilliance, laced with xenophobic paranoia, coated in coarse mysoginism, dosed heavily with ignorance and willful stupidity, mixed thoroughly with violence and depredation, and topped with the run-off from an abottoir slop-bucket.

"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline jetson

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2011, 07:43:17 PM »
What does the atheist community think of the bible itself, specifically the teachings of the old testament and the new testament?

The "teachings" are completely out of context and synch from book to book, if you ask me.  It is incoherent, precisely because the different books and letters had different authors, each with different audiences.  And since it is largely metaphorical, in my opinion, the teachings escape me.  It seems to me that no single book of the entire collection gets even close to "teaching" anything useful (unless the original languages were far better understood by their original audiences!)

As far as any bits of good, or gems of useful information, I defy anyone to give me on example of something that we don't inherently know simply because we're human.  And if they were trull nothing more than ancient laws, then they were only useful for people during those times.

Offline Timo

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2011, 11:44:23 PM »
I like the Bible.  I think it's neat and that it's fun to read.  I like reading about it too.  I find it all very interesting--the way in which different factions seem to be competing against each other in the very editing process, the weird idioms and customs, the ever evolving concept of God, the way that you can see Jesus' legend growing over time by comparing the Gospel narratives.

With respect to my view on its content--I think it's a mixed bag.  I like the Wisdom literature for the most part (though I'm not a fan of the narrative framing of Job).  I like some of the prophets.  I mostly like Isaiah's sarcasm and Ezekiel's weirdness.  Jesus has some nice things to say sometimes.  Not a big fan of Paul--sorry, but the Gentiles need to be circumcised and keep the feasts to follow Christ.   But I find the Law, as well as the Deuteronomic history to be mostly repugnant.

I find this stuff all the more interesting since a disturbing number of people in my country and elsewhere seem to think that this stuff actually happened.


Peace
Nah son...

Offline plethora

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2011, 05:26:32 AM »
The bible is a collection of books written by primitive men. It has historical value... but that's it.

Most of the bible, to me, is boring as fuck.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2011, 07:53:21 AM »
What does the atheist community think of the bible itself, specifically the teachings of the old testament and the new testament?

Mostly useless and outdated.  The stuff that is of any value is not original.
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Online Nam

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2011, 09:38:30 AM »
I think the Old Testament is a whiney, violent, and vile piece of books brought together to make it seem as if it's one book[1] and teaching people not only to hate one another but lie about it but also teaching people how not to really live their life.

I think the New Testament is basically the same as the Old Testament but less whiney, and violent but still a vile piece of books brought together to make it seem as if it's one book[2] and teaching people not only to hate one another but lie about it but also teaching people how not to really live their life, either.  Also, that addage of: if you don't do what we[3] say then you will burn in a tormenting hell for the rest of your natural dead life.

Man, what music that must be to people who actually hate themselves and everyone else.

-Nam
 1. basically
 2. basically
 3. Jesus and Biblegod
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline dloubet

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 08:13:21 PM »
I think it's terrible. I think it poisons everything. It demeans the ideas of sacrifice and love. Even the commandments against stealing and killing are stained by their absolutist nature and the threat of eternal torture.

The bible is one of the worst plagues ever to be inflicted on mankind.
Denis Loubet

Offline jetson

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 08:40:58 PM »
I think it's terrible. I think it poisons everything. It demeans the ideas of sacrifice and love. Even the commandments against stealing and killing are stained by their absolutist nature and the threat of eternal torture.

The bible is one of the worst plagues ever to be inflicted on mankind.

You damn atheist!  Love it!

Offline Emily

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2011, 10:18:55 PM »
What does the atheist community think of the bible itself, specifically the teachings of the old testament and the new testament?

The bible is the greatest story ever written that features a heinous villain getting away with murdering thousands of people according to his own admittance (the flood) yet gets away scott-free for promising bliss (heaven) when, according to Revelations, bliss is a place that is supposed to have streets lined with gold and pearly gates that was payed for by other's ignorance; and where its inhabitants are nothing but mindless robots. (again, according to revelations)

The entire bible details (very specifically) the actions of a very power-hungry, egotistical, creature who uses his own power towards his own advantage, without having any compassion for others. it's all garbage (Well, Ecclesiastes is a good book, in my opinion)
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Offline jetson

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2011, 10:33:40 PM »
So...I just read Revelation (NIV), again.  My response:

W.  T.  F.  ???????????????

I mean seriously?  Are there really people who think that this book is not pure mythology and fiction?  And some of them want to ban Harry Potter!  WTF !!!!!!!

Anyway, the Bible sucks, really.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2011, 09:30:44 AM »
Ain't Revelation utterly bizaare?   ;D  I keep trying to get my mother, nominally a Christian, to read her bible, and not depend on those stupid little "verse a day" books, so she can see just how ridiculous it really is.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2011, 09:47:31 AM »
What does the atheist community think of the bible itself, specifically the teachings of the old testament and the new testament?

No one can speak for all atheist.

1. Little historical content, a jesus likely existed as concluded by mainstream historical scholarship but much of the passion narrative is made up as also concluded by mainstream historical scholarship.  That being said it stands in stark contradiction to the claims/theology of the OT and it is equally intellectually dishonest to pretend like the NT and the OT can magically be separated to qualify belief in make believe.

2. Incoherent and contradictory teachings, making it impossible to derive a cohesive and structured idea of what it actually 'teaches' if anything.  Hence you have a hundred thousand different christian denominations

3. Poor ethical grounds, what little ethically sound statements the NT might make are often contradicted elsewhere or have to be grossly reinterpreted to mean something else on a level that invites extreme amounts of intellectual dishonesty.  The common phrase,"The text doesn't mean what it says, but instead what I mean it to say." applies to most christian interpretations of religious scripture.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2011, 10:23:33 AM »
So...I just read Revelation (NIV), again.  My response:

W.  T.  F.  ???????????????

I mean seriously?  Are there really people who think that this book is not pure mythology and fiction?  And some of them want to ban Harry Potter!  WTF !!!!!!!
Honestly, I've never been able to finish Revelation, because it's so utterly weird.

Seriously, it's demeaning to compare mythology and fiction to Revelation, because no self-respecting fiction writer would write something that meandered like that, and the old mythology stories were at least comprehensible because their writers wanted to spread an actual message.  Revelation is...just...it doesn't even make sense in context with itself.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2011, 10:27:35 AM »
Revelations is the only book in the bible I have read all the way through...a few times. I love it! Reminds me of the shit I would see sometimes when I took hallucinogenic drugs   &)  You know that if it was a true account of what John[1] saw while in exile on that island then it was inspired by the local flora. There is a fungus among us!
 1. Assuming he was a real person
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2011, 01:08:21 PM »
I've heard that too.  Personally, I lean towards the alternate explanation that John the Revelator got exiled to that island and simply went off the deep end of his sanity after a few years of hating Romans for them putting him there.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2011, 08:14:24 PM »
What does the atheist community think of the bible itself, specifically the teachings of the old testament and the new testament?

Come on!!!!   What I have learned form reading posts on this blog, website (whatever), that anyone believing in creation is a knuckle dragging, neanderthal, pre-primordial gooze, idiot, or whatever.

That science and creationism for some reason can't be reconciled.  I believe that science is responsible for refrigeration, cars, planes, medicine, electricity, heating, cooling, nuclear reactors, etc. etc. etc. etc.  Only because science is the study of what is.  The discussions of origins (life or universe) is philosophy.

Why you guys won't open your minds to alternative explanations to the beginnings is beyond me. I know BBT and evolution.  I did a "science" fair exhibit on continuous creation (think about why they are trying to find the magic ["God"] particle), today, yet another Boson.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Emily

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2011, 08:17:25 PM »
^^you're also an idiot.
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Offline Historicity

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2011, 08:27:10 PM »
The Bible is bad writing?

I saw a comment on another site talking about the repetitious and predictable of some of the prophets were.  But then added, "It's still better than Tom Clancy."

Offline jtp56

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2011, 08:41:13 PM »
Agreed, the Bible....New Testament was written in a style never seen before, but used to this day by all authors.  That doesn't make it "bad writing".  Just progressive....ah, er, I'm sorry.... different writing.

And the response...."I'm an idiot"  proves my point.  Thank you "Emily".   What have you read that proves me wrong?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2011, 08:49:31 PM »

Why you guys won't open your minds to alternative explanations to the beginnings is beyond me. I know BBT and evolution.  I did a "science" fair exhibit on continuous creation (think about why they are trying to find the magic ["God"] particle), today, yet another Boson.

Because you have to begin making your case by saying "open your minds to the alternative", as opposed to saying "the evidence shows".

If you have to start by asking for people to consider your ideas without evidence, then your ideas clearly don't have much intellectual value, do they?

But keep going, it's been a while since your lack of knowledge and intellect has graced us. While you're here maybe you should go back to those other threads that you punked out of previously and try to respond to what was said.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2011, 09:18:52 PM »
Come on!!!!   What I have learned form reading posts on this blog, website (whatever), that anyone believing in creation is a knuckle dragging, neanderthal, pre-primordial gooze, idiot, or whatever.
It's called a "messageboard".  Anyway, I think you're really reaching here.  I don't doubt that most atheists consider creationism to be invalid, but that does not mean they consider creationists to be knuckle-dragging neanderthals, idiots, or whatever.  Some may, but you should not judge all atheists by the most radical of them.

That science and creationism for some reason can't be reconciled.  I believe that science is responsible for refrigeration, cars, planes, medicine, electricity, heating, cooling, nuclear reactors, etc. etc. etc. etc.  Only because science is the study of what is.  The discussions of origins (life or universe) is philosophy.
It's not "for some reason", it's because creationism attempts to utilize ancient texts written by people who weren't there to see the 'beginning' and didn't really understand how the universe worked.  We can no more take Christian creationism seriously as part of science than we can Zoroastrian creationism, or Islamic creationism, or Hindu creationism, etc, because there is no more proof that Christianity happened to get it 'right' than any of those other religions did.

Why you guys won't open your minds to alternative explanations to the beginnings is beyond me. I know BBT and evolution.  I did a "science" fair exhibit on continuous creation (think about why they are trying to find the magic ["God"] particle), today, yet another Boson.
I think they have open minds, they just aren't willing to accept the same old product in shiny new packaging.

Offline jetson

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Re: Curiosity [#2602]
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2011, 09:31:37 PM »
Considering the fact that those who wrote Genesis were not even aware that they were in a universe, or standing on a planet, or among an infinite number of galaxies, I would say that creationism will never be taken seriously.