Author Topic: What's So Great About America?  (Read 2230 times)

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Offline Truth OT

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What's So Great About America?
« on: October 07, 2011, 12:27:28 PM »
My intent for this thread is for poster to discuss what it is about America that they feel is wonderful as well as have posters discuss what they feel will make it better.

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To me, America is great for various reasons, but I'll try to sum it up in 2. The overwhelming majority of its citizens have the freedom to pursue what makes them happy AND the access to the means as well as the actual things that make life convenient and most enjoyable. So FREEDOM and ACCESS in my mind separate America from other nations around the globe.

I am one that believes that our freedoms can be even better if they were less restricted. For example, I am against government involvement in matters of marriage/life partnership. Who is the government to say who can and cannot marry, cohabitate, or inherit assets from another? Infringing rules as it relates to these issues where child safety is not an issue is in my mind a violation of individual freedom.

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In addition as sort of a side note, I have for a while now believed that churches should pay taxes and have their 501c3 status changed in most circumstances. The reason I believe this way is because these institutions own property and that property and the money generated by the institution is not generally used for charitable purposes.
The last church I was an active member of had about 375 members housed in a building that could accomodate about 525. We had 2 preacher who's salaries were $90k and $74k respectively. On average we brought in about $8000 per week which equaled about $416,000 annually. About a third (33%) of that money went into the building in some way or another, 40% went to the local preachers, and an additional 10% to 15% per year was directed at non local preachers we supported in Mexico and Africa. The remaining funds were kept in an interest bearing account at our local bank only to be tapped into when the leaders of our congregation agreed that a member's need was deemed worthy of tapping into the church treasury to help meet.
Being a part of the male leadership of the congregation and knowing friend who served in similar capacities at other churches, I can tell you that it is quite common for funds to be distributed in this manner where less than 15%, hell less than 5% is used for charity purposes. WIth this being the norm, having a 501c3 status is really undeserved.

Offline Nam

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 01:38:56 PM »
In my opinion the U.S. is neither great nor the opposite.  It is what it is.  Just like any other political ideology and/or country.  People outside of the U.S. may think we're great based on personal experience and/or propaganda[1]; people in the U.S. may think we're great based on their own experiences or the brain-washing of what the school system, news, government, or peoples in general state we are.

It used to be the individual states and then the U.S. as a whole.  Now, it's the opposite.  I rarely see anyone waving a Florida flag in my state.  Yet, a Battle Flag, or the U.S. flag.  Sure.  For me, I'm a Floridian first, and a U.S. citizen second.

-Nam
 1. like there's no poor people in the U.S. or everyone is treated equally, and you can say what you want without reprecussion etc.,
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 01:48:34 PM »
In my opinion the U.S. is neither great nor the opposite.  It is what it is.  Just like any other political ideology and/or country.  People outside of the U.S. may think we're great based on personal experience and/or propaganda[1]; people in the U.S. may think we're great based on their own experiences or the brain-washing of what the school system, news, government, or peoples in general state we are.

It used to be the individual states and then the U.S. as a whole.  Now, it's the opposite.  I rarely see anyone waving a Florida flag in my state.  Yet, a Battle Flag, or the U.S. flag.  Sure.  For me, I'm a Floridian first, and a U.S. citizen second.

-Nam
 1. like there's no poor people in the U.S. or everyone is treated equally, and you can say what you want without reprecussion etc.,

I live in and am from Texas, so as far as state pride goes, you can imagine that I am a bit "The World Revolves Around Texas-ish."

As far as the U.S. being great, I gotta classify it a so if based on nothing else, the comparison to the standard of living outside of the U.S. To say America has so many people, our average standard of living is pretty darn good and our access to the comforts of life isn't too shabby either.

Offline Nam

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 01:56:13 PM »
There are countries out there that have better economies and, in general, better living conditions than the U.S..

There are plenty of lists out there, and the United States rarely makes the top 5.

I hear Norway is the best place to live in.

-Nam
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Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 01:57:43 PM »
What's great about America....

Hmm...

Let's see...

Umm....

Oh, I got one. We have DYNAMITE milkshakes.

For serious, they're insane. My personal favorite is Pineapple.

What else...

Oh! We produced Hendrix! So that's gotta count for something, right? Even though he had to go to England before anyone really started to appreciate him... Maybe not a great example then...

Umm... Pink Floyd? Oh, wait, no, they're English... Guiness!!! No, my bad, we made Budweiser (sorry about that, world!)

The Flobee! The Snuggie! Beathoven as a ring tone! Deep fried Jello! Dancing With the Stars! Celebrity worship in general! Uncle Sam bailing out Bank of America! Charlie Sheen on the newsstands for months at a time!!! JOHN DENVER ON COMPACT DISK!!! TUPAC'S UNSOLVED MURDER!!!!!!! TWO GUYS FROM THE SAME FAMILY TREE BECOME PRESIDENT OUT OF 300 MILLION CITIZENS AND NOBODY THINKS IT'S WEIRD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



...


I'm not doing very good, am I?  :-\

Oh, wait... Putting a man on the moon. And hydrogen bombs. Both are pretty damn impressive.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 02:04:50 PM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline violatedsmurf80

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 03:22:53 PM »
Quote
To me, America is great for various reasons, but I'll try to sum it up in 2. The overwhelming majority of its citizens have the freedom to pursue what makes them happy AND the access to the means as well as the actual things that make life convenient and most enjoyable. So FREEDOM and ACCESS in my mind separate America from other nations around the globe.

You need to travel more. We just set the ideas there are many countries that have freedom and access. China does the are small business in that country not to mention that many of the small and large business own a lot of our bonds.

Quote
I am one that believes that our freedoms can be even better if they were less restricted. For example, I am against government involvement in matters of marriage/life partnership. Who is the government to say who can and cannot marry, cohabitate, or inherit assets from another? Infringing rules as it relates to these issues where child safety is not an issue is in my mind a violation of individual freedom
   

This IMO is were the blue laws come into play. Another thing I think is wrong is that the government is to big. They allow business to lobby certain things. If I remember correctly the goldstein financial was involved in a big scandal but they were never kick from anything government involved. When Bush gave us the patriot act it infringed in many of our right but no one until now is noticing it. you should check out Naomi Wolf or at least read about her. the book the end of america is pretty good. 
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”--- Sinclair Lewis

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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 03:31:14 PM »
Quote from: TruthOT
To me, America is great for various reasons, but I'll try to sum it up in 2. The overwhelming majority of its citizens have the freedom to pursue what makes them happy AND the access to the means as well as the actual things that make life convenient and most enjoyable.


^ ya that's fine, but,

Quote from: TruthOT
So FREEDOM and ACCESS in my mind separate America from other nations around the globe.

^ this is itself a defining characteristic of the U.S. Namely, people who think the two above items make them distinct. They don't. And, a lot of us, you know, other nations on the globe, find it insufferable.

You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 03:58:58 PM »
Quote from: TruthOT
To me, America is great for various reasons, but I'll try to sum it up in 2. The overwhelming majority of its citizens have the freedom to pursue what makes them happy AND the access to the means as well as the actual things that make life convenient and most enjoyable.


^ ya that's fine, but,

Quote from: TruthOT
So FREEDOM and ACCESS in my mind separate America from other nations around the globe.

^ this is itself a defining characteristic of the U.S. Namely, people who think the two above items make them distinct. They don't. And, a lot of us, you know, other nations on the globe, find it insufferable.

Yeah, aren't you in the UK Pony? So when are you gonna adopt me, huh? I'll live under your porch, no problem.

Come on man. Emancipate me! Get me out of here! BEFORE 'LIL WAYNE PUTS OUT ANOTHER "ROCK" RECORD. PLEASE. PLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

To me, America is great for various reasons, but I'll try to sum it up in 2. The overwhelming majority of its citizens have the freedom to pursue what makes them happy AND the access to the means as well as the actual things that make life convenient and most enjoyable.

Sure, that's good stuff. What bothers me is the current culture of the U.S. and the kinds of things they want to "pursue to make them happy".

To quote Tyler Durden: We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

Everybody wants to be a living legend, they want to be the best there is at what they do, they want to kick ass and take names and make piles and piles of money, but the overwhelming majority don't have any idea *what* exactly it is that they want to be great at.

And let's face it, there's precious few people who actually CAN be at the top of the food chain. Most people are just... average. But nobody wants to BE the average guy.

There's some kind of gross sense of entitlement in my generation that turns my stomach. I've NEVER heard of any other generation acting this way. It's fucking embarassing, frankly.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 04:09:11 PM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline Nick

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 04:15:31 PM »
Well, God likes us best.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Truth OT

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 04:26:19 PM »
Everybody wants to be a living legend, they want to be the best there is at what they do, they want to kick ass and take names and make piles and piles of money, but the overwhelming majority don't have any idea *what* exactly it is that they want to be great at.

And let's face it, there's precious few people who actually CAN be at the top of the food chain. Most people are just... average. But nobody wants to BE the average guy.

There's some kind of gross sense of entitlement in my generation that turns my stomach. I've NEVER heard of any other generation acting this way. It's fucking embarassing, frankly.

I couldn't agree more. We are VERY spoiled (and lazy), especially those of us that are not yet in our 40's. I guess that's a product of living in America during the times we have existed in. We consume the hell outta stuff, but we don't know how to make and develop anything anymore. The young generation opitomizes what it means to be dependants IMO. When the older generation dies off, we're going to see what it's like not to live in a nation that's the world's top superpower, if that day hasn't already dawned.


Offline Ivellios

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 04:27:01 PM »
TWO GUYS FROM THE SAME FAMILY TREE BECOME PRESIDENT OUT OF 300 MILLION CITIZENS AND NOBODY THINKS IT'S WEIRD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of whom ran against his cousin and all 3 were part of the same secret society. 322

"Measure 123456 failed in Congress, but after $10 Million in bribes, it was presented again before Congress and Passed!" Everyone acts like this is how a Democracy is Supposed to be run.

We may have it better than most, but the USA isn't the best. If the founding fathers were alive today... to hear the USA is a "Christian Nation," despite the intention for Freedom of Religion,  the World's Police Force... a nation that tries to impose it's will upon all the other nations of the world... that when anything bad happens in the world, the world turns eyes to the USA demanding us to save them even to the point of recieving criticism from the (at the time) Pope himself demanding the USA to save Earthquake torn Italy. They would suffer shock and horror at what the nation has become.

People hate the USA for it's meddling, but demand it's meddling when thier country and god fail them. Like a parent, if you even ask for thier assistance, they feel like they have every right to control your life. When you demand that USA tax payers pay $1 Billion annualy for your nations food, don't be biting the hand that feeds you. It should also be policy that if a country has been harboring a fugitive, they should be required to pay back. Our economy is such a disaster, that we should only be doing abroad that which is absolutely necessary. In the situations where the Government bails out a Bank... it should also come with the stipulation to reduce everyone's debt to that bank by: grant / number of lenders. After all it was our money to begin with and that of our children's children who will have to deal with the taxes for it, if the USA hasn't collapsed by then. They shouldn't be making money for getting paid twice for the same loans.

Darn, looks like I got started, but I was able to stop myslef.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 04:31:26 PM »
TWO GUYS FROM THE SAME FAMILY TREE BECOME PRESIDENT OUT OF 300 MILLION CITIZENS AND NOBODY THINKS IT'S WEIRD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of whom ran against his cousin and all 3 were part of the same secret society. 322

"Measure 123456 failed in Congress, but after $10 Million in bribes, it was presented again before Congress and Passed!" Everyone acts like this is how a Democracy is Supposed to be run.

We may have it better than most, but the USA isn't the best. If the founding fathers were alive today... to hear the USA is a "Christian Nation," despite the intention for Freedom of Religion,  the World's Police Force... a nation that tries to impose it's will upon all the other nations of the world... that when anything bad happens in the world, the world turns eyes to the USA demanding us to save them even to the point of recieving criticism from the (at the time) Pope himself demanding the USA to save Earthquake torn Italy. They would suffer shock and horror at what the nation has become.

People hate the USA for it's meddling, but demand it's meddling when thier country and god fail them. Like a parent, if you even ask for thier assistance, they feel like they have every right to control your life. When you demand that USA tax payers pay $1 Billion annualy for your nations food, don't be biting the hand that feeds you. It should also be policy that if a country has been harboring a fugitive, they should be required to pay back. Our economy is such a disaster, that we should only be doing abroad that which is absolutely necessary. In the situations where the Government bails out a Bank... it should also come with the stipulation to reduce everyone's debt to that bank by: grant / number of lenders. After all it was our money to begin with and that of our children's children who will have to deal with the taxes for it, if the USA hasn't collapsed by then. They shouldn't be making money for getting paid twice for the same loans.

Darn, looks like I got started, but I was able to stop myslef.

TruthSeeker, please don't take this the wrong way, as most of what you said can be agreed upon and makes sense; but if you had a chalk board, and started blaming everything on George Soros, I'd think you were Glenn Beck.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 04:58:40 PM »
One great thing about America is the simple fact that if I wanted to I could, right this very minute, hop into my truck and drive anywhere I want.[1]
 1. Except for the usual restricted type areas.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 06:02:01 PM »
To me, America is great for various reasons, but I'll try to sum it up in 2. The overwhelming majority of its citizens have the freedom to pursue what makes them happy AND the access to the means as well as the actual things that make life convenient and most enjoyable. So FREEDOM and ACCESS in my mind separate America from other nations around the globe.


Except it doesn't. In fact America isn't even very good at it.

 Reporters Without Borders lists America as 31st in regards to freedom of the press in their Press Freedom Index (this was in a their 2003 study, so granted it's a few years old now). Though they gave a special qualification to America and Israel in that report.

From the report,

The ranking distinguishes behaviour at home and abroad in the cases of the United States and Israel. They are ranked in 31st
and 44th positions respectively as regards respect for freedom of expression on their own territory, but they fall to the 135th and
146th positions as regards behaviour beyond their borders.

The Israeli army’s repeated abuses against journalists in the occupied territories and the US army’s responsibility in the death of
several reporters during the war in Iraq constitute unacceptable behaviour by two nations that never stop stressing their
commitment to freedom of expression.
!


There's a pdf of it here. http://en.rsf.org/IMG/pdf/World_press_ranking.pdf

Edit:Just found a copy of the 2010 Index which moves America up to the 20th spot.

Freedom House ranked the US 21st place in 2007.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/fop/2007/pfscharts.pdf

Interestingly enough and something I just noticed while I was checking the freedom rankings, America is also ranked at only a 17 on the current Democracy Index. Out of only 26 countries that are considered to be true democracies (the other countries below the top 26 didn't score high enough to be called democracies, instead they're listed as 'flawed' democracies). Most of the top fifteen are in Europe, with the exception of Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. Though I'm not sure I really agree with their method of gathering data, though I suppose it's the best you could do when dealing with something this abstract.

There are similiar trends in other areas of freedom as well. America isn't some exceptionally free country. There are a whole list of countries with far better freedoms. Americans are just much, much louder about telling everyone else about them. Really, I can't think of any real area that America especially excels at in comparison to the rest of the world. In fact America tends to suck in a lot of areas.

This isn't really meant as a slam against the country, but more of a point. Americans look even worse when they constantly insist on saying things like " So FREEDOM and ACCESS in my mind separate America from other nations around the globe." when it's so obviously not true.

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Offline grant

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 06:21:35 PM »
America is great? Thats news to me.....
What if the hokey pokey is what its all about?

Offline Alzael

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2011, 06:29:39 PM »
America is great? Thats news to me.....

Shhhhhhhh, reality spooks them.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2011, 08:09:53 PM »
Quote
As far as the U.S. being great, I gotta classify it a so if based on nothing else, the comparison to the standard of living outside of the U.S. To say America has so many people, our average standard of living is pretty darn good and our access to the comforts of life isn't too shabby either.
Why does that make America great, Truth?

You live in a first-world country. Which by various accidents of history happens to possess a disproportionate wealth of the planet.

That's not great, it's lucky.

And in the eyes of the third world, it looks greedy. While you congratulate yourself on your riches and greatness for being rich... they turn away in despair.

Offline Alzael

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2011, 08:29:50 PM »
Quote
As far as the U.S. being great, I gotta classify it a so if based on nothing else, the comparison to the standard of living outside of the U.S. To say America has so many people, our average standard of living is pretty darn good and our access to the comforts of life isn't too shabby either.
Why does that make America great, Truth?

You live in a first-world country. Which by various accidents of history happens to possess a disproportionate wealth of the planet.

That's not great, it's lucky.

And in the eyes of the third world, it looks greedy. While you congratulate yourself on your riches and greatness for being rich... they turn away in despair.

Not to mention that America doesn't have the highest standard of living in the world either. It's one of the better countries in the world but it's not even in the top ten. (11 as of this year)

You could at least learn something about the rest of the world first before you go making claims like this.

Think about this for a moment Truth. You're trying to start a thread dedicated to patting your country on the back over how great you think it is. However it's demonstrably not nearly as great in the areas that you claim that it is, while all of those countries who actually beat you at things like freedoms, standards of living, etc. are perfectly content to sit around and be silent while going on about their business. Consider the third world countries that are struggling (as Gnu pointed out).

Does it occur to you how sad of a spectacle that is? What this says to non-Americans?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 08:47:46 PM by Alzael »
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Offline grant

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2011, 10:05:57 PM »
Before anybody mentions the war, remember America was happy to sit back and allow Hitler to take over most of Europe until 1941 when the Germans and Japanese made things a bit more personal. Poland, Finland, Denmark, Norway, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, East Africa, North Africa, Egypt, Romania, Greece, Yugoslavia, The Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia had all been invaded. Hitler even had to declare war on America first to get a response from them.

Not really the actions of a "great" country I would have thought.

They teach this in Americans schools don't they?
What if the hokey pokey is what its all about?

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2011, 10:14:44 PM »
Before anybody mentions the war, remember America was happy to sit back and allow Hitler to take over most of Europe until 1941 when the Germans and Japanese made things a bit more personal. Poland, Finland, Denmark, Norway, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, East Africa, North Africa, Egypt, Romania, Greece, Yugoslavia, The Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia had all been invaded. Hitler even had to declare war on America first to get a response from them.

Not really the actions of a "great" country I would have thought.

They teach this in Americans schools don't they?

Pre-World War II, America's foreign policy was very different from the one we have today.  We adhered largely to a doctrine of non-interventionism, holding that we should not get involved with things that were none of our concern.  The reason we stayed out of World War II (and, for that matter, World War I) for so long is that America generally believed that it should mind its own business.  This is as opposed to today, where America's foreign policy presupposes that we should mind everybody's business, and the bulk of our knuckle-headed politicians can't understand how that's connected to our nation's unpopularity with so many other nations in the world.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2011, 10:21:11 PM »
Reminds me of the Godfather to a certain extent...

We tried to stay out, but they kept pulling us BACK IN!
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2011, 06:00:42 AM »
Piano, didn't Japan bomb the shit out of Hawaii because of American foreign policy? You're talking just military involvement in things that were not U.S. concerns, right?

My shallow understanding is that the U.S., after it's main imperialist phase in the 19th century, remained highly involved in foreign countries.

You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline grant

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2011, 06:25:40 AM »
our nation's unpopularity with so many other nations in the world.

I'd change that to "all other nations in the world".

If I'm wrong, please correct with a list where America is "popular". I can't name one unfortunately. I can't even imagine America is popular to a lot of Americans to be honest.

Americans just don't seem to get it.
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2011, 06:35:57 AM »
Piano, didn't Japan bomb the shit out of Hawaii because of American foreign policy?

Sort of, but not exactly.  Japan was already involved full-swing in the war, of course, but one of its problems was that Japan has few natural resources.  One particular resource that's especially important, even in peacetime but even more so in war, is oil.  Japan has no natural oil resources, and the United States had stopped selling oil to Japan in early 1941.

To alleviate its oil shortage, Japan planned to occupy the oil-rich Dutch East Indies.  The only snag to that was that if Japan simply attacked it, the United States would have entered the war due to treaty obligations, and the American Navy in the Pacific was powerful enough to present a serious challenge to the Imperial Navy.  Therefore, Japan sneak-attacked Pearl Harbor in an attempt to weaken the American Navy enough to make it possible for Japan to successfully attack and occupy the Dutch East Indies.

Some Japanese military planners also hoped that if Pearl Harbor proved to be a decisive enough blow, it would bring the United States to the negotiating table, where Japan could then offer a peace treaty in exchange for favorable trade agreements.

Quote
You're talking just military involvement in things that were not U.S. concerns, right?

My shallow understanding is that the U.S., after it's main imperialist phase in the 19th century, remained highly involved in foreign countries.

This area of history is not one of my strong points, so I couldn't really say.
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Offline hickdive

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2011, 06:48:00 AM »
One great thing about America is the simple fact that if I wanted to I could, right this very minute, hop into my truck and drive anywhere I want.[1]
 1. Except for the usual restricted type areas.

I'm not sure how that differs from Europe, apart from travelling from mainland UK to the continent or into Switzerland, I needn't produce a passport or visa to go anywhere (subject to the same caveat you used).
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2011, 07:51:26 AM »
I knew about the oil embargo, and that was what I was referring to, that the U.S. was certainly none-neutral none-militarily. Defending an oil supply that feeds your citizens is one thing, going out of your way to prevent oil being sold to another country....that's being involved in other people's business.

You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2011, 08:16:32 AM »
I knew about the oil embargo, and that was what I was referring to, that the U.S. was certainly none-neutral none-militarily. Defending an oil supply that feeds your citizens is one thing, going out of your way to prevent oil being sold to another country....that's being involved in other people's business.

Not at all.  We weren't preventing anyone else from selling oil to Japan, we were just refusing to do it ourselves.  (We wouldn't have needed to pressure anyone else not to sell oil to Japan, inasmuch as America had hitherto been responsible for 80 percent of Japan's oil imports.)

We made this decision because we had begun to find out about the war atrocities that Japan was committing in China, and we recognized that by selling oil to Japan, we were supporting those atrocities.  We did not want to support those atrocities, so we stopped selling them oil.  That's not "being involved in other people's business", that's saying that we don't want to be involved in other people's business.  Finally, an embargo is not an act of war, so enacting an embargo does not affect a nation's neutrality in any armed conflict.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2011, 08:45:25 AM »
I'm not sure how that differs from Europe, apart from travelling from mainland UK to the continent or into Switzerland, I needn't produce a passport or visa to go anywhere (subject to the same caveat you used).

Then that is something great about Europe! I wasn't trying to point out differences or compare, just sharing one of the reasons I like America.
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Offline Ivellios

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Re: What's So Great About America?
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2011, 08:48:08 AM »
We were shipping ammo, weapons and other equipment to the European Theater like there was no tomorrow. If a ship got torpedoed (and it happened a lot) the Convoy kept going and completely abandoned those American Sailors to die as a casualty of war while not being officially at war.

The USA's hands were not clean. This is in violation of International Laws of Neutrality. That's why we couldn't delcare war against Germany for killing our sailors. We would have been admitting we were in violation to begin with. All we could do was either stop assisting, or keep letting our Saliors die. The USA chose to let our sailors die. We weren't neutral and everybody knew it. Until the Oil Embargo, we were just a problem they would deal with 'later.' Since the average American person was ignorant of this, there wasn't any need to stir the hornet's nest till Europe was under Hitler's control.

Then we forced Japan's hand thinking the fleet was perfectly safe in Pearl Harbor because it was, "impossible to use torpedoes in water 'that' shallow." Kinda funny we thought this considering less than 50 years before it was, "impossible for man to fly."