In order to believe in God.

[pingnak]

And there's no 'I' in team, though there is a 'm' and an 'e'.  And it's a anagram for 'meat' or 'at me' or 'tame' or 'mate'.  Many of these words not so good in context with a 'team' that's all the same gender.

And by 'what god sez', I mean WHATEVER 'god' sez. 

If GOD sez to MURDER, you MURDER, and it's 'good'.

If GOD sez 'genocide', you warm up the ovens, and it's 'good'. (Godwin Reference).

[Add Homonym]

Did I hallucinate it? Or are we just going to pretend that there wasn't some kind of Invastion-of-the-Account-Snatchers debacle where personalities were flip-flopping around, Tourettes rockets were going off, there was some kind of whacked-out thumbs down/smiting spree, all that?

I mean, Snake Killa *DID* morph into John 3:16 for a few hours, right? Complete with avatar pic and quotes?

Still looks that way to me. SERPENT KILLA has always exhibited John 3 16 characteristics - right from the first post, so I don't think much of his latest lie, that he is not SK. The only reason he managed to fool so many for so long, is that he kept his post count down, and behaved like a submissive woman.


John, you are aware that Christians are supposed to behave better than atheists, aren't you? Christianity says "Resist not evil", and "Love thine enemy". I know the Bible says nothing about lying on the internet, but it seems that the only Christians we get here are liars, or trolls with mental problems. How do you think that is going to colour our perceptions of Christians. You said, as SK, that God had revealed himself to you by telling you some foreign words. How are we supposed to evaluate that in light that you obviously lie, and have painted other Christians as liars, by your own brush.

Kin hell has pointed out that some Christians we get here are actually trying to understand the truth, so I ammend my statement to : but it seems that 50% of Christians we get here are liars, or trolls with mental problems.

[C]

Kin hell has pointed out that some Christians we get here are actually trying to understand the truth, so I ammend my statement to : but it seems that 50% of Christians we get here are liars, or trolls with mental problems.

I understand that 50% completely, as I, ashamedly admit, acted in very similar manner to the ones who went on insulting atheists or those who just didn't agree with my Christianity/god.

Perhaps I still am acting in that mocking manner albeit with more knowledge and in reverse.

Anyway, based on my personal experiences, a lot of Christians may feel that after thinking on some of the points made by the opposition, in this case the atheists, they will think "ah hah!, this makes complete sense, they should see this too! If not, I have other compelling arguments to make!"

Then they will usually try to get in contact or confront the opposition, lay out their own rebuttals which are then, well, torn apart, and then they will attempt to fire back with some of their own "evidence" or simply just preach, as we've all seen on the forums various times.

If they don't preach, then after more time has elapsed, they will perhaps realize that they cannot convert atheists with their arguments and will resort to either a genuinely curious and friendly manner or just completely lose it and crow at the fact that non-believers such as atheists will burn in hell.

For the latter, they may usually Google Image the middle finger and put that in or insert in a lot of "!!!!!!!!"'s and "LOLOL"'s.

It may seem childish to you, but back then, it was a "victory" for me and others and more so if our 'opponents' reacted negatively by cursing at us or insulting us which would just further justify our religious stance by proving atheists/non-believers weren't as "moral" as they claimed to be..somehow.

[Add Homonym]

Wow, does everyone here have the historical account of Abraham screwed up!!!!!  Even Christians.  Abraham went up the mountain to sacrifice his son believing God would provide a scapegoat, and God did!  A model for Jesus.  God didn't tell him to kill anyone.  Ya'll gotta read the Bible man!!!  God is not gonna tell anyone to kill their kids, been there done that with His own Son. 

Oh wait a minute, most of you atheists probably are for abortion.  Even our president when he was a senator in Illinois voted for allowing infants that survived late term abortions to be let to die.

Who's killing who around here?

If anyone thinks God is telling them to kill their kids, their delusional, retarded, idiots and it doesn't matter what their world view is.

I don't know which Bible you have been reading, but mine has lots of demands to sacrifice all your firstborn, and prohibitions to sacrifice to Molech, without actually stating that it's bad to sacrifice your sons to Elohim.

In any case, what is so preposterous about a God asking you to sacrifice your firstborn sons to him? All the neighbours were doing it.

20:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 20:2 “You are to say to the Israelites, ‘Any man from the Israelites or from the foreigners who reside in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death; the people of the land must pelt him with stones. 20:3 I myself will set my face against that man and cut him off from the midst of his people, because he has given some of his children to Molech and thereby defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 20:4 If, however, the people of the land shut their eyes to that man when he gives some of his children to Molech so that they do not put him to death, 20:5 I myself will set my face against that man and his clan. I will cut off from the midst of their people both him and all who follow after him in prostitution, to commit prostitution by going after Molech.

All this ranting by the Lord; perhaps he doth protest too much, but still gives not enough information, considering he asked Abe to sacrifice his son, as if that was normal.

[Anfauglir]

perhaps it's because you are predestined that way (away from the heaven)

Now I am 100% sure why I was chosen to be saved and you are not.
thank you LOFFE residents.
BWA hahahahaha

I dunno - I take a couple days holiday and it all goes tits-up.

SK, once again you stress that you were CHOSEN to be saved.  Not something you did, or earned, or deserved, but something god gave you on a whim.  Something he similarly has decided NOT to give to us.  So you will be saved, we will not....and you think that is incredibly funny??? 

Like denying God and Hell but still want to go to heaven.

Nope.  Heaven contains people like you who think someone being tortured forever for something they had no control over is funny.  No way do I want to spend eternity with people like that, still less the coin-tossing monster who decided who gets to go where.

Love of Christ, man
Love of Christ everywhere.

Hello John.  I'm glad you believe that.  SK is a Christian, who supposedly believes in the same "Love of Christ everywhere" that you do.   Is SK right to be laughing at our predestined torture? 

[Add Homonym]

Hello John.  I'm glad you believe that.  SK is a Christian, who supposedly believes in the same "Love of Christ everywhere" that you do.   Is SK right to be laughing at our predestined torture?

I'm sure that it will appeal to his multiple personalities and egotism that you are addressing him as two people, who deserve an answer.

[John 3 16]

Hello John.  I'm glad you believe that.  SK is a Christian, who supposedly believes in the same "Love of Christ everywhere" that you do.   Is SK right to be laughing at our predestined torture?

No.
I believe we (doesn't matter Christians or athiests) have no right to judge anybody any way.
It's because just like SK said 'We don't know our destiny'

[Astreja]

I believe we (doesn't matter Christians or athiests) have no right to judge anybody any way.

Whereas I believe that everyone has the right to judge whoever or whatever they want -- As long as they act within the boundaries of the law.

It's because just like SK said 'We don't know our destiny'

And I think "destiny" is a myth.  I believe that we make our own meaning, moment to moment, and that our lives can and do go in myriad directions, and that all of those directions are equally valid.

[pingnak]

I believe it is true, that we shouldn't judge people.  We can't go walking miles in everyone's shoes to see how badly they were raised, and by what kinds of retards.

I can find your words or actions reprehensible, without hating you, generally.

However, we MUST judge what people SAY or DO, as it applies to ourselves and our families.

For instance, if I know that you have been a liar and a thief all your life, and you come to me with a fabulous new investment opportunity, don't take it the wrong way, but I wouldn't trust you with pocket change. 

Nothing personal, but bank interest rates, as bad as they are right now, are better than having the money 'disappear'.

This is the problem with believers.  I have no trust for them.  They think they can wave their savior onna stick around like a stick, and smack on a stupid book in their other hand, and I'll magically accept whatever nonsense they are babbling about.

Problem is, I have long experience with that nonsense, and the sorts who present it to me.  They have a much higher wall to climb than even a mediocre science article, and yes, I do 'vet' that science information, too.  So it's not like I'm singling out religious retards for special skeptical treatment.  Everything gets a dose of skepticism.  Some have simply proven that they DESERVE more skepticism.

[kin hell]

  Everything gets a dose of skepticism.  Some have simply proven that they DESERVE more skepticism.

QFT

[Hatter23]

  In truth, the Bible is reality, atheism is incoherence.

The Bible: Snakes Talk, God sacrificed himself to himself in order to avoid his own wrath for people who didn't live up to his expectations...even though he made them to and knew the would, Judas dies in two different ways....etc

Atheism: You see what the world looks like...that's pretty much how it works.


NO, YOU ARE INCORRECT

Atheism:  You don't believe in God.

Bible: Reality and an understanding of humankind.

By the way: donkeys talked, axe heads floated, the earth turned backwards, wet wood burned, three guys survived a furnace, God only had faith in (expectations?) His Son (Himself), and other stuff you don't believe. 

How did Judas die two different ways?

Bible is made up crap...I don't care how many time you state it is true....it is just another tale of myth and magic. Things that were they being claimed by anyone outside your particular favored set of myths..you would think the person delusional. You want to prove atheism wrong:

HAVE GOD HEAL AN AMPUTEE

[pingnak]

GIANT TEXT!!!
Makes it look like I have a point!

Have your god crawl out from under its rock and show its self. 

THEN it can heal some amputees.

Proving it has advanced medical knowledge, but not necessarily that it's 'god'.

A doctor with a big crate of sulpha drugs and antibiotics could go back in time and cure lots of lepers.

[Mr. Blackwell]

It was pretty cool.  I went to cheung ju, south korea.
Loved every moment of it. Experienced few miracles but no regrowth of anybody's limb. 
I didn't really think about this seriously, but maybe God doesn't want anybody's limb to regrow.

But what the heck, no one lives forever, if I die anytime soon I get to see Jesus face to face.
No one is going to take the smile off my face.
No more suffing, no more tears, no more sorrow.
Love of Christ, man
Love of Christ everywhere.[/quote]

Well, I'm glad you made it back safe. I always wanted to go on a mission trip overseas but it never panned out. I did get to go to Iraq with my Uncle Sam in 2008-09, but that was a different kind of mission. My mom has pictures from each different mission up on her fridge of a family from our church. I grew up with the woman, I was good friends with her brother. I knew her husband but not as well. You can see their family growing through the different pictures. I would still be interested in an overseas mission trip just for the experience it would give my kids but I can't convince my wife to even consider it  She said I could go if I wanted, but I already missed 15 months of my kids lives while in Iraq. Don't care for a repeat.

I doubt the church would consider me a good candidate anyway.

Did you go by yourself? Or with a group? How does that work anyway?

[kcrady]

Serpent Killa, a question:

You say that all our actions are fore-ordained by Yahweh's omniscient knowledge and predestination, but what about his choices?  Did he ever have any?  Example: imagine if a different one of Alois Schickelgruber's spermatozoa had won the race.  Instead of a boy named Adolf, a girl by the name of Eloise was born; a shy girl with a talent for mathematics and a love for growing things, she grew to become a renowned biologist who developed radical improvements in agricultural yields.  In this universe, the surname "Hitler" is known for saving millions of lives from famine, rather than atrocity.

Did Yahweh have the option of predestining this alternate universe (or some other) into being, instead of the one we inhabit?  Or was there always one and only one possible path human history could have taken?

[Hatter23]

GIANT TEXT!!!
Makes it look like I have a point!

Are you saying I don't have a point?

[jetson]

Serpent Killa, a question:

Serpent is no longer a member.

[kin hell]

GIANT TEXT!!!
Makes it look like I have a point!

Are you saying I don't have a point?

My impression is that pingnak thought the larger text was a reply from jtp56 and he posted GIANT TEXT to him.   I could be completely wrong

Anyway aside from that, if CAPITALS is considered ANGRILY YELLING at a recipient  !!!!!!!!!!!!!

GIANT TEXT IS USING A MEGAPHONE IN AN ENCLOSED AREA

[RaymondKHessel]

I believe we (doesn't matter Christians or athiests) have no right to judge anybody any way.

[/quote]

Isn't this the same guy/girl/whatever that just two days ago was saying this that and the other person were going to LOFF or whatever that goobery acronym was? Saying we're gonna burn forever?

I dunno. Sounded pretty judgemental to me at the time.

But that's okay. We have every right to judge each other. Why? Because there is absolutely no reason not to. And it's not only a natural instinct (EVERYBODY judges people for one thing or another), but it's neccesary to maintain a functional society. If we didn't judge murderers and rapists, they'd be wandering around your back yard. All of them. Camped out just behind your house. Watching you from the bushes.

Maybe Christians are cool with that, I dunno. *I'M* certainly not. *This* is the world I know for a fact I have to live in, and it strikes me as straight-up ass-faced RETARDED to pretend that the people who have a negative or positive effect on it shouldn't be judged, considering that THIS is the world they're making an impact on, not this alleged lollipop-kingdom where like 4% of the population supposedly goes after they *DIE*.

Judging people is a good thing. If a 14 year old high school student reads like they're 8, a teacher judges that they suck at reading, and does something about it so they don't hold the rest of the class back.

If somebody is applying for millitary service and has two flat feet, bad knees, a trick elbow, poor vision, bad lungs, and is deaf in one ear, judging them as unfit for service saves the lives of the poor shmoes that would be assigned to their unit.

If I'm a potential employer, I need to judge potential employees on whether or not they're qualified to do the job, don't I? Oh, you can't operate a computer? Or a fax? Or a copy machine? What's that? You're illiterate? Oh, well, if you really are a hard worker and pick up things quickly like you say... Well, far be it from me to judge! You start Monday!

Way to go, asshat. Now you've got a staff of gibbering orangatans and not one of them knows what a TPS report is, let alone how to fill one out. Kiss your company goodbye.

And personally, hey man, I've got standards. For myself and others. I'm not about to apologize for them. They're what prevents a person from devolving into a shitheel, and they're what assures that my friends are decent human beings with likeable qualities.

I'm sorry, but it strikes me as lunacy to proclaim "We shouldn't judge people!". It's downright stupid. I don't mean any offense by that in all honesty. But to me, it's just a stupid policy. Or at the very least, completely out of touch with reality.

A common rebuttal to my opinion on the subject is "Well, would YOU want to be judged!?"  Which is a very strange question to ask somebody. I mean, what are you talking about? What does what I want have to do with anything? It's a fact of life. I am judged, you're judged, everybody's judged, all the time, by everybody else. And that's not bad thing at all.

Besides being told that it is by an ancient book or by a preacher, I honestly can't understand why anybody would think it is. To me, it's like saying that complaining is wrong, or that being excited about something is wrong, or that we shouldn't have opinions about each other or something. It's a perfectly natural part of life. It's one of the most basic parts of the human experience, in addition to being one of the most useful and neccesary. 

Though I do want to go on record and clarify that through all of this, I'm talking about making an *informed* judgement based on collected facts and such... Not anything like blind judgements or pre-judging somebody you've never met without knowing anything about them. Those sorts of things are clearly problematic for reasons that should be obvious.

Ideally I shouldn't of even had to make this clarification, but in my experience on this site, you can't afford to assume everybody is capable of working this s**t out for themselves.     

I dunno. "You have no right to judge!" is just one more thing to add to the pile of s**t I'll never understand about the Christian mind-set, right along with other oddities like "Love your enemy! (Lol WUT?) and "Turn the other cheek!" (so you can get punched in that one, too, I guess...?)

[pingnak]

I just don't like giant text.  So sue me.  :p

[kcrady]

Serpent Killa, a question:

Serpent is no longer a member.

Oh.  So somebody's ban-hamma is a SerpentKilla Killa?  Oh well.  Any other Christian active in this thread is more than welcome to answer my question.  Otherwise, I guess this thread will devolve into a debate about "giant text."

[Anfauglir]

Otherwise, I guess this thread will devolve into a debate about "giant text."

And to tie it all neatly together......

In order to believe in God - we want "giant text".

[C]

In order to believe in God - we want "giant text".

Anfauglir, you darned fool! What have you done?!?

[pingnak]

GOD
SEZ:
GET
A
LIFF
(God can't spell).

[Truth OT]

Serpent Killa, a question:

You say that all our actions are fore-ordained by Yahweh's omniscient knowledge and predestination, but what about his choices?  Did he ever have any?  Example: imagine if a different one of Alois Schickelgruber's spermatozoa had won the race.  Instead of a boy named Adolf, a girl by the name of Eloise was born; a shy girl with a talent for mathematics and a love for growing things, she grew to become a renowned biologist who developed radical improvements in agricultural yields.  In this universe, the surname "Hitler" is known for saving millions of lives from famine, rather than atrocity.

Did Yahweh have the option of predestining this alternate universe (or some other) into being, instead of the one we inhabit?  Or was there always one and only one possible path human history could have taken?

kcrady He did all of that!! God created a multiverse so that every potentiality happens somewhere within the multiverse. We just happen to live in the Prime Multiverse on Earth Prime.

[Hatter23]

kcrady He did all of that!! God created a multiverse so that every potentiality happens somewhere within the multiverse. We just happen to live in the Prime Multiverse on Earth Prime.

That sounds so....gamer

[kin hell]

That sounds so....gamer

I see what you did.  That is very funny.....

[Historicity]

NIP THESE ESCALATING TRENDS IN THE BUD: GIANT COLORED BANNER TEXT IN CAPITALS AND BOLDFACE WITH EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!
Like that 1950s--1990s arms race.  I will call it "weaponizing the text".

I appreciate your point, Pingnak.

[Historicity]

Wow, does everyone here have the historical account of Abraham screwed up!!!!!  Even Christians.  Abraham went up the mountain to sacrifice his son believing God would provide a scapegoat, and God did!  A model for Jesus.  God didn't tell him to kill anyone.  Ya'll gotta read the Bible man!!!  God is not gonna tell anyone to kill their kids, been there done that with His own Son. 

Since I have read some of the Bible, I am way ahead of you. Pretending for the sake of discussion that the Bible is historical I will proceed.  For instance I know that the scapegoat was a ceremony introduced by Moses for the forgiveness of sin.  It didn't exist by the time of Abraham.

Here is what you regard as the historical record:

Genesis 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, "Behold, here I am."

And he said, "Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."

And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. And Abraham said unto his young men, "Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you."

And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, "My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?"

And Abraham said, "My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together." And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, "Abraham, Abraham"

And he said, "Here am I."

And he said, "Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me."

And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
   ...
And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son

While the narrator says that God was just fooling around and while Abraham lied to Isaac until he got him tied up, there is no indication that Abraham thought it was a joke.  Also, at this point in the Bible God is not telepathic nor precognitive so he had to test Abraham to see if he would really kill on command.

[dloubet]

...and took the knife to slay his son.

Historicity is right, there's no wriggle-room there. The bible clearly says he was going to do it.