As best I am able I'd be happy to tell you what I believe."Yes" or "No" is not adequate to answer more of your questions than even you might think.I don't want that to be a tangent though.As far as the calling down fire onto an altar...I think the original incident was for a different reason than we should want to see it happen.For me it goes immediately to "seeking a sign" and that doesn't work as you probably already know.Wasn't the fire to consume a sacrifice in the Elijah story?
onesteward, I dont’ care what you “think”. You’ve read the story, yes? What was the intention of Elijah and God? What were they intending to accomplish with the competing sacrifices? And yes, there were sacrifices. Let me guess, one more excuse that this was under other “laws” so it can’t be done now? Oh and btw, answer those questions.
But let me show you what I think the intent was, quoting from your scripture
Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.” But the people said nothing.
22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the LORD’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”
seems pretty obvious what the intent was, establishing who the real god was. That’s what I’m asking you to do, onesteward. Heck, we can ignore the bulls and altar. How about some healing? You’re a Christian right, so per JC you can do miracles in his name.
And yes, the usual excuse of a Christian who wants to claim that we are daring to “seek a sign”. Funny how Thomas got a sign to aid his faith, and all JC said that you shouldn’t need it but gave him one anyway with no words how this was a bad thing to ask for.. Gideon got a sign, Elijah got a sign, God says directly to test him in the OT, etc. Why is it that your god suddenly has decided that it can’t show signs according to his believers? It seems that it’s awfully convenient that in the same age where God can’t get it up to do miracles that can be confirmed, no “signs” can be found either. Suddenly, believers must say that “you have to only believe with faith”.
That is incorrect Velkyn.I'm hoping for any reason to think that you were.I can easily relate to backsliding...not at all to atheism.Therefore, I can understand you leaving the "Church"and the multitude of reasons people do....I have friends and family who have.I've learned to leave judgement to Christ, He is qualified to do it .I do understand that we are to "judge" righteously which is a completely different thing.I'm guessing you understand that without the lengthy word study and all.
LOL. But by your own words, you don’t think I was. And again with the attempts to claim that I’m just “backsliding”. Sorry to disappoint you but no, I’m not. I’m fully and happily an atheist. It’s also cute to see you trying to come up with any of the old tired Christian claims of why people become atheists. It seems that in your mind, I simply can’t have made a rational decision based on facts, it has to be some old saw that “atheists are angry at god”, “atheists are rebels”, etc. And gee, you now are claiming how humble you are, to leave the judgement to JC. Funny how your actual actions show this to be a lie, with all of your insistence that I simply must have had to have a “noticeable change” to validate myself in *your* eyes. I understand you quite well. You are just one more Christian who does one thing and says another.
I never claimed that everyone had to.I read the Bible ,got saved, and developed an intense appetite for The Word.The streetcorner thing is just a way of defining a hypocrite...a "Pharisee". That was meant that way?
No, but you sure implied it with your repeated questions “are you sure, are you sure?”
, onesteward. I’m not an idiot, so please don’t treat me like one. You say that you are looking for any to think I was born again, and then you ask repeatedly for what you evidently think is the one sole means to determine if I’m telling the “truth” or not. As for what I meant by “declaring our piousness on streetcorners”, I mean like here in this forum where Christian after Christian claims just how bad they were before their supposed conversion, and how they and only they have the right version of their religion.
Now, I put to you that I can explain the reason why “virtually everyone” you know who got saved said that they had some major change. It’s because they knew you expected something of them. They didn’t want to be left out and admit that nothing happened. If they did that, you might assume, as you appear to be doing now, that they didn’t “really” get saved and they weren’t a real Christian. It’s the desire to be accepted as important and to keep within the herd. I don’t have that hanging over me any more so I am telling you the truth about my self and my experience.
Good Night!! You're not serious about that psycho-babble are you?I have regular , run of the mill conversations with these people.I'm not even attending a church at this point.WWGHA is more suited to the herd description than any Christians I know.The people I know do not need approval for their Christianity...they are "born again"- God validates Himself in our lives. Others don't even really know me.Casual conversations for the most part.As for your experience Velkyn ,you said that part of your experience was "to repent".I find that most of the Christians I deal with at some point stop or at realize they should stop doing the things that were repented of.You wouldn't repent of something that you felt was ok would you? Part of the Christian walk involves grace here as well...enablement to accomplish something. That would be the change I guess I'm asking about.
Ah, nice baseless claim and insult to me by calling my reasoning “psycho-babble” (just had to leave my quote before your insult). Prove me wrong, onesteward, rather than waving your hands in indignation and spouting baseless claims. I also have regular run of the mill conversations with Christians and I have no reason to think that my explanation is quite valid. You seem to acknowledge that people *do* indeed want to follow the herd. You of course make a baseless claim about this forum and I am insulted by that rather pathetic little lie. The people you, and I, know were raised in a culture where being Christian is seen favorably. People unfortunately equate religion with being good and acceptable. People have much to lose if they don’t join the herd and declare themselves just as religious as the next. Many, if not all, need to claim that God validates himself in their lives because if they say “hey, I didn’t really feel anything” then someone like you will decide to judge them as not Christian enough.
It’s even funnier with your protestations that you immediately go into how “Christians” should do this and such to be considered Christians by you. It’s so cute to watch you try to convince yourself I was never a Christian by judging me against your own opinions. Now you want to add “grace” and how I should have felt a certain way.
You are ridiculous and such a hypocrite.