Author Topic: More from the Theist dishonesty department  (Read 510 times)

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Offline Hatter23

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More from the Theist dishonesty department
« on: October 04, 2011, 08:47:55 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/user/CartesianTheist#p/u/6/74gCqznK-AA


I posted:
@CartesianTheist There is no such thing? as "Darwinism" there is "The Theory of Evolution" and unlike religion...there's this little thing called "evidence" to support it. Not that you care about evidence or facts.

His reply:
If you just google 'Darwinism' you will find all kinds of reputable sites using this word to represent the theory of evolution. If you care about the evidence you'll look. If you accept evidence you'll apologise for making an arse of yourself. If you don't care about truth you'll try to defend yourself or not bother replying at all.

And I:

So you say either I cannot defend myself, or I don't reply...or I'm not truthful. SOOOOO, you create a false dilemma and poisoning the well. Logical fallacies. And the term "reputable" in your lexicon means "Creationist" so were dealing with a No true Scottsman as well. So all you? have is logical fallacies as arguments.So try your own medicine: "If you don't reply to this, your aren't a 'true Christian" and if you do reply or delete this comment you are a liar"

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Nam

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2011, 09:04:37 AM »
[1]Darwinism: The principles of natural selection set out by Charles Darwin in the Origin of Species (1859) and other writings.

-Nam
 1. Wiktionary
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Historicity

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 09:08:39 AM »
Sorry, Hatter23, I googled it and as painful as it is to say it, this creationist was right.

DarwinismWiki
Quote
The meaning of "Darwinism" has changed over time, and varies depending on who is using the term. In the United States, the term "Darwinism" is often used by creationists as a pejorative term in reference to beliefs such as atheistic naturalism, but in the United Kingdom the term has no negative connotations, being freely used as a short hand for the body of theory dealing with evolution, and in particular, evolution by natural selection.

The term was coined by Thomas Henry Huxley in April 1860...

TalkOrigins -- What is Darwinism?
Quote
The term "Darwinism", ... has numerous meanings depending on who has used the term and at what period. A better understanding of the meaning of this term is only one reason to call attention to the composite nature of Darwin's evolutionary thought.

Gutenberg Project -- Darwinism(1889) by Alfred Russell Wallace

Stanford University Encyclopedia of Philosophy -- Darwinism

Google gave me 7 links on the first page.  Discountng Answers.com because it is just an aggregator, of the 6 links only 1 was a creationist site.


Offline Hatter23

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2011, 10:32:51 AM »
darn, well I stand corrected.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Nam

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2011, 10:34:03 AM »
^Are you going to tell the person you had the disagreement with?

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Hatter23

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 10:44:16 AM »
^Are you going to tell the person you had the disagreement with?

-Nam

Already did so.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online One Above All

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 10:49:42 AM »
^Are you going to tell the person you had the disagreement with?

-Nam

Already did so.

Expect "HAHAHAHAHAHA ME RITE ABOUT THIS ONE THING SO U RONG ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE" type responses. I know I am
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 10:53:15 AM »
*shrug*  I'm sure there are people out there who turn evolutionary theory into a ideology.  I would use 'Darwinism' to refer to such people.  But someone who supports evolutionary theory isn't Darwinist, nor is evolutionary theory itself an ideology.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 05:37:56 PM »
It's the theory that people don't like, so they try to say it is all from this one guy, without mention of the thousands of other scientists that have contributed to it since Darwin. He was a very smart guy who made good observations and wrote them down. The evidence supporting his ideas have accumulated over the past 150 years.

Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Truth OT

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 05:43:30 PM »
It seems to me that the picture painted is that people are backed into a corner and forced to choose between only two alternatives which of course are the Biblical creation ideas or the "Darwinist" ideas of origins. Is it not possible that BOTH are wrong and other alternatives exists?

Offline jetson

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2011, 08:15:21 PM »
I'm with you hatter...Darwinism reminds me of evolutionist, as though they are ideologies, as opposed to real science.  From the creationist camp, they are used in derogatory ways, in an attempt to put religion on the same level, or rather, to drag real science down a few notches, and attempt to make those who follow science look like them.  Ironic.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 09:40:10 PM »
Evolution isn't about origins, it's about how organisms change over time.

Beyond some academic curiosity (and the opportunity to tweak some creationist noses), I don't really concern myself much with just how life happened.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 06:44:05 AM »
It seems to me that the picture painted is that people are backed into a corner and forced to choose between only two alternatives which of course are the Biblical creation ideas or the "Darwinist" ideas of origins. Is it not possible that BOTH are wrong and other alternatives exists?

Certainly possible. There are things, here in there, in The origin of Species, that have been proven wrong. However, the TOE as a whole seems to gain more evidence each time is is cross referenced with another discipline. Speciesation has been observed three times in recorded history, and pseudo-speciesation is also been observed, as I have found out recently.

Psudo-speciesation is the missing link, when an isolated animal breed is almost different enough not to produce viable offspring with the parent species, to the point more than half the offspring are sterile. But the ones that aren't are nearly indistinguishable from the parent species.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2011, 10:31:53 AM »
It seems to me that the picture painted is that people are backed into a corner and forced to choose between only two alternatives which of course are the Biblical creation ideas or the "Darwinist" ideas of origins. Is it not possible that BOTH are wrong and other alternatives exists?

It is certainly possible for both to be wrong. Scientists have found mountains of evidence that show the Biblical account(s) of creation to be wrong, ie that possibility has been falsified. When scientists uncover any evidence that falsifies the theory of evolution, that will turn all of the sciences upside down and open up possibilities of other alternatives. That evidence would be something like the discovery of dinosaur fossils next to hominid fossils. So far, no go.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: More from the Theist dishonesty department
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2011, 02:21:42 PM »
It seems to me that the picture painted is that people are backed into a corner and forced to choose between only two alternatives which of course are the Biblical creation ideas or the "Darwinist" ideas of origins. Is it not possible that BOTH are wrong and other alternatives exists?

It is certainly possible for both to be wrong. Scientists have found mountains of evidence that show the Biblical account(s) of creation to be wrong, ie that possibility has been falsified. When scientists uncover any evidence that falsifies the theory of evolution, that will turn all of the sciences upside down and open up possibilities of other alternatives. That evidence would be something like the discovery of dinosaur fossils next to hominid fossils. So far, no go.

And the creationists  had no problem making much ado about a homid footprint found within the middle of a dinosur footprint. Gee, the dino footprint being lowest ground would be where water might accumulate, becoming soft mud....accepting of a footprint. Seriously, it only requires a fourth grade understanding of science to explain that. What would be evidence to support the dinos coexisting with humans...dino copperlites with human DNA...has never been found.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.