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Offline kcrady

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Why Atheists Hate "God"
« on: October 03, 2011, 04:19:00 AM »
To begin, let us ask the question: Is it possible to hate a fictional character?  Why, yes.  Yes it is.  Three words: Barny the Dinosaur.  Three more words: Jar-Jar Binks.  Or, if one considers the perspective of rather a lot of fundamentalist Christians, two words: Harry Potter.

Now, I think it is quite safe to say that no one who loathes Barney the Dinosaur really thinks he exists as a real animal that sings horridly sappy songs.  The haters of Jar-Jar Binks, may their tribe increase, do not think that, a long time ago, in a Galaxy far, far away there lived a tremendously annoying racial stereotype of Afro-Caribbean blacks who looked like the bastard child of a snail, a beagle, and the Creature from the Black Lagoon.  Nor do the Christians who gather together to burn Harry Potter books in festivals of seething fury really believe that he exists. No one would shake their heads sadly and say they're only angry with the Wizarding World because they were traumatized as children, having seen Lord Voldemort in the shower.  Or that Fred Phelps stayed around to watch him towel off.

When it comes to Yahweh, Richard Dawkins said it best in his book The God Delusion:

Quote
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Even as an ordinary fictional character, Yahweh is worthy of contempt and disgust.  To a far greater degree than other fictional characters however, Yahweh also functions as a memeplex, a sophisticated set of computer viruses for the human mind.  When "he" infects people, they become convinced that "he" exists in the same way that Mt. Rushmore does, and further: that our societies and our individual lives should be governed in accordance with his personality and the dialogue ("commandments") attributed to him in his storybook.  This results in a multitude of pernicious consequences, including persecution of other world-views (including "heretical" understandings of Yahweh), rejection of science, learning, intelligence and expertise (ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Tea Party and the Republican candidates for President), a dangerous eagerness for the destruction of civilization ("the eschaton," "the End Times," "Armageddon"), institutionalized sexism, militarism, refusal to address problems like climate change or the collapsing economy (because everything gets better after we die!), and more.

If you are a Christian fundamentalist, imagine how you would feel if all the Democratic Presidential candidates were lining up to say that America is (or should be) a Wizarding nation, and that our government's policies should be decided on the basis of the teachings of the members of the Order of the Phoenix from the Harry Potter books.  And furthermore, that anyone who disagreed must therefore be a servant of the Dark Lord Voldemort, and should be treated accordingly.

Now: imagine your response if, when you expressed anger about this, you kept getting the following response: "Why are you angry at Harry Potter if you don't think he's real?  Since you are angry, that must mean that deep down, you do believe in Harry Potter and the rest of the Wizarding world.  Perhaps you're just being a petulant, spoiled brat because you can't catch a Golden Snitch if your life depends on it?"
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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 04:32:26 AM »
I don't think it matters if something is real or not if someone is angry at it. If something is real and has people angry at it that is fine unless the angry people don't have a good reason to be angry at it. If someone is angry at a fake thing like a God or Harry Potter, it would be a waste of time to be angry at a fictional thing because there is no reason to be angry at it. I could be angry at an invisible wall that exists in my own mind because it is apparently blocking access to my own home but that proves I have mental issues. The same could be said about people who are angry at something that is not real, or exists in their own minds.

I could catch the golden snitch, but if I had a good reason to catch it, like if it was very valuable, I would catch it.
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 04:46:16 AM »
Quote
If you are a Christian fundamentalist, imagine how you would feel if all the Democratic Presidential candidates were lining up to say that America is (or should be) a Wizarding nation, and that our government's policies should be decided on the basis of the teachings of the members of the Order of the Phoenix from the Harry Potter books.  And furthermore, that anyone who disagreed must therefore be a servant of the Dark Lord Voldemort, and should be treated accordingly.

Now: imagine your response if, when you expressed anger about this, you kept getting the following response: "Why are you angry at Harry Potter if you don't think he's real?  Since you are angry, that must mean that deep down, you do believe in Harry Potter and the rest of the Wizarding world.  Perhaps you're just being a petulant, spoiled brat because you can't catch a Golden Snitch if your life depends on it?"

Quick morning post, Great Crady.

What I've quoted above doesn't fully accomodate the theists perspective, IMO. They would see in their storybook that Yahweh says fake gods (sometimes demons in disguise) will come along and that they lead men (the only human beings) astray. A large group of american theists would respond with "I'd pray for them, let them know the good news, that jesus is the only way to salvation". Essentially, they are much more apt at playing make-believe than we are, and much more willing to accept the reality of other people's imaginary friends, it's just that theirs is better and the strongest.

For a strong theist to see your point it would still take a solid leap of perspective to get what you're saying, maybe.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline violatedsmurf80

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 07:35:22 AM »
Your crazy, GoDs can change just like people can. Beside that was the old testament, the new testament is the new and improved GoD, didnt you read John 3:16. So Please stop relishing on the old GoD and let get with the hip new testament GoD, after rehab.  ;)
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 07:41:44 AM »
Your crazy, GoDs can change just like people can. Beside that was the old testament, the new testament is the new and improved GoD, didnt you read John 3:16. So Please stop relishing on the old GoD and let get with the hip new testament GoD, after rehab.  ;)

I have no idea what this means or how it relates to the OP.  If you were trying to communicate something, you missed the mark. 
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 07:45:23 AM »
To begin, let us ask the question: Is it possible to hate a fictional character?  Why, yes.  Yes it is.  Three words: Barny the Dinosaur.  Three more words: Jar-Jar Binks.  Or, if one considers the perspective of rather a lot of fundamentalist Christians, two words: Harry Potter.....

(Copied from another thread)
When debating with a Christian, we presume that they will first understand that we don't believe in god.  However, it would become very dull having to type that in every time - as well as obscuring what we are trying to say.  For example.....

Lengthy version - removes any possibility that we are angry at god....
Christian: "but my god is always good!"
Atheist: "So for example when it says in your book that we don't believe is true that the god we don't believe in drowned all the evil people, I believe that would be a terrible thing to do if I believed god existed but I don't believe he does."

Short version - where the unbelief is assumed - but where the casual reader could infer an actual hatred of god.
Christian: "but my god is always good!"
Atheist: "But he drowned everyone - that was a terrible thing to do"

The latter version is the one you will normally see on this site - much, much faster to type, and easier to understand.....except, of course, for the "newbie" who reads the shorts form and assumes that we do, in fact, really believe in, and therefore hate, their god.

So I agree that we do "hate" the fictional character - but "hating" a fictonal construct for what it is (as opposed to what it inspires others to do) is a lot different from hating an actual being that exists.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
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Offline Whateverman

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 07:53:47 AM »
If someone is angry at a fake thing like a God or Harry Potter, it would be a waste of time to be angry at a fictional thing because there is no reason to be angry at it.
Maybe this is little more than a semantic argument, but I don't think skeptics hate or are angry at God.  At best, they're "angry" at theist ideas about that deity: what He is like, what He is supposed to have done, what He wants us to do, etc.
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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2011, 07:59:06 AM »

Maybe this is little more than a semantic argument, but I don't think skeptics hate or are angry at God.  At best, they're "angry" at theist ideas about that deity: what He is like, what He is supposed to have done, what He wants us to do, etc.

If people are angry at thiest ideas about the deity: what He is like, what He has done and what He wants for us,etc, they might be angry because they want to decide for themselves what they want to do or if 'God' is really evil,etc. I don't think anger is necessary for anything. There are other and better ways to do stuff. Arguments don't really help in some cases.
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Offline violatedsmurf80

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2011, 08:41:56 AM »
Your crazy, GoDs can change just like people can. Beside that was the old testament, the new testament is the new and improved GoD, didnt you read John 3:16. So Please stop relishing on the old GoD and let get with the hip new testament GoD, after rehab.  ;)

I have no idea what this means or how it relates to the OP.  If you were trying to communicate something, you missed the mark.
I wasnt
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Offline Whateverman

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2011, 10:18:42 AM »
I don't think anger is necessary for anything. There are other and better ways to do stuff. Arguments don't really help in some cases.
My point is that there's a significant difference between being angry at something that doesn't exist, and being angry at something that does exist.  Atheists would say Gods don't, but nearly everyone agrees that ideas DO.

To your point, anger is appropriate for some situations but not for all (IMHO).  Why not make a case as to whether anger at the idea of Gods is useful/necessary, or whether it's not...

edit: bbcode quoting
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 10:21:11 AM by Whateverman »
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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2011, 10:24:08 AM »
Anger at Gods is unnecessary because Gods have a high percentage of not responding. People who are angry are just hurting themselves.
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Offline Whateverman

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2011, 10:32:46 AM »
Anger at Gods is unnecessary because Gods have a high percentage of not responding.
Yet anger at theist ideas about Gods is justified, because theists have well-established track record of using those ideas to do harm to people.
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Offline gonegolfing

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2011, 10:39:30 AM »

For myself, it's a disdain and anger at the effect on the mind of the god idea.

God as an idea exists, therefore my irritability about it. God as a reality does not, therefore anger directed towards a nonexistent being would be irrational and categorically the same type of mental illness that theists suffer from.  :o

I loathe the god idea because it's actually a poison that has been disguised and paraded around as an antidote to the questions and problems of our world and universe. I'm disgusted by the god idea because in reality it's shows itself to be a useless antidote that it powerless to counteract or change a single damn thing that is of any real importance in our world for the better .

I have an inner anger that I was indoctrinated, and that I then foolishly, of my own volition, allowed the trickery of this powerful god meme to keep controlling and stiffling my mind for 45 years when it could have been made impotent and discarded long before that. I'll always remember the god idea and that this meme had infected my mind, and as long as it remains in our world I'll always be angered about that idea and the harm that it does to the human mind and the negative effects that occur in society and our world because of it. The only time I ever show anger publically or outward with regards to this god idea, is when it infringes on my rights, and others rights, as humans and free citizens of this world.

Theists be clear--atheists are not angry about god as a reality--there is no real god.

But some, including myself, are very angry about the god idea--That harmful idea is quite real.

Anger about this matter is a wonderful thing.....it taught me to love all the more and be genuine with that love. 




 
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2011, 05:16:06 AM »
My point is that there's a significant difference between being angry at something that doesn't exist, and being angry at something that does exist. 

Absolutely.

Imaine watching Star Wars in the cinema.  Recall the scene where Tarkin - for no reason other than to demonstrate his power - destroys a whole planet with billions of inhabitants.  Repeated viewings have taken away a lot of the impact, but I would say that it would be entirely appropriate to feel anger at his actions as you sit in your cinema seat.  Indeed, if you did NOT feel anything at that point, I'd say there was probably no reason you going to see films in the first place: empathising in that forum is entirely appropriate and, I would say, enhances the experience.

But when you leave the cinema, that anger should fade extremely quickly.  You are "out of the moment", and the reality of the world comes flooding back.  Conversely, if the events of that scene has really, actually happened, then continued anger would be entirely appropriate.

And I think that is where believers get confused.  They believe that God really exists, that Tarkin really destroyed the world....and so they see nothing untoward with continued love or anger respectively.  To the believer, it makes total sense that we should be angry - obviously better if we loved instead, from their perspective, but still quite valid to feel strong emotion about something that is as real as the computer they are typing on.
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Offline Alendar

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2011, 05:59:05 PM »
My first thoughts are: But what do Atheists love?  We express ourselves so often in God-Hate that Christians see us as a bunch of haters, cynical and depressive, with nothing better to do than keep Christians from getting their way in schools, science, politics, and media.  They hate us, but a large portion of them see us as faulty creatures, still able to be mended by God's love.

Your justification of why we hate God or the idea of God or the people who impose laws on us based on God's laws is well put.  But is there another, more effective way to combat Theism?  Justifying our hatred is a fine rallying cry for a gathering of Atheists, but unless we're willing to rush out and start bashing Monotheistic heads, then what is accomplished?

I'm thinking of those hearings where Christians get on a rampage to get prayer in schools, or get rid of gay marriage, or excommunicate a gay priest, or whatever bandwagon of orthodoxy they're on.  What is the method for dealing with this?  Would expressions of boundless love shock and confuse them?

If I were still a Christian, the most convincing evidence against religion would be to see the Christian ethic and morality manifest in secular society, and also have those same secularists express that they were Atheists.  The word "Atheist" has been manipulated into being synonymous with devil-worship, which is ironic, but the majority of Americans would claim they were Agnostic or "Spiritual."  They are turned off by both sides.

Offline natlegend

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2011, 08:57:29 PM »
Quote
If I were still a Christian, the most convincing evidence against religion would be to see the Christian ethic and morality manifest in secular society, and also have those same secularists express that they were Atheists.

But Christian ethics and morality is warped and discriminatory. If that's what it takes to convince a Christian then I'll pass thanks.
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Offline Whateverman

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2011, 09:23:40 AM »
Your justification of why we hate God or the idea of God or the people who impose laws on us based on God's laws is well put.  But is there another, more effective way to combat Theism?
Yup.

Keeping in mind that I'm a deist, it's difficult for atheists to combat theism without reacting to the constant stream of anti-atheist bigotry.

If you can find a way to ignore it, the best way to combat atheism is to portray yourselves not as atheists but as (eg) secular humanists, or to put forth ideas that can compete with the things theists claim they offer.  Those things include compassion, a sense of purpose & morality.

Until "atheists" can give people a reason to live and to care about others, atheism is going to be nothing but a punching bag for bigots.
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Offline kcrady

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2011, 10:10:57 AM »
My first thoughts are: But what do Atheists love?  We express ourselves so often in God-Hate that Christians see us as a bunch of haters, cynical and depressive, with nothing better to do than keep Christians from getting their way in schools, science, politics, and media.

There's an implicit assumption here that Christians have an automatic right to get their way in schools, science, politics, and media, so atheists are meany poopy-heads if we disagree.  I reject that assumption branch and root.  If Christians want to start yelling "Help!  Help! We're bein' repressed!  Do you see those atheists repressin' us?!" whenever their hegemony is challenged, so what?  I reserve the right to either call them out for being privileged assholes, or just point and laugh.

They hate us, but a large portion of them see us as faulty creatures, still able to be mended by God's love.
 

The latter isn't condescending and/or hateful at all, nosiree.  And Jews just need to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost so they can be "completed" Jews.  Pardon my French, but fuck that shit.

Your justification of why we hate God or the idea of God or the people who impose laws on us based on God's laws is well put.  But is there another, more effective way to combat Theism?  Justifying our hatred is a fine rallying cry for a gathering of Atheists, but unless we're willing to rush out and start bashing Monotheistic heads, then what is accomplished?

Hmmm, let's see: Abolition of mandatory prayer in public schools--thank you, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, you hateful, Christian-oppressing bitch. ;)  Abolition of "blue laws" in most states.  A growing tide of acceptance of homosexuals as, you know, actual human beings deserving of the same rights and citizenship privileges as everyone else.  A fusillade of best-selling atheist books that put atheism front and center in the national conversation.  Frankly, I think if Christians are clutching pearls and reaching for the smelling salts while howling to each other about the dire threat we represent to their Christian Republic, that means we are Doing It Right.

I'm thinking of those hearings where Christians get on a rampage to get prayer in schools, or get rid of gay marriage, or excommunicate a gay priest, or whatever bandwagon of orthodoxy they're on.  What is the method for dealing with this?

Depending on the specifics of the situation, one or both of the following:

1) Outrage backed by facts.
2) Derision and ridicule.

Would expressions of boundless love shock and confuse them?

No.  They think they, their beliefs, and the political impositions they wish to foist on everyone are entitled to boundless love.

If I were still a Christian, the most convincing evidence against religion would be to see the Christian ethic and morality manifest in secular society, and also have those same secularists express that they were Atheists.

To each her/his own, I guess.  When I was a Christian, I viewed such efforts at appeasement (such as atheists giving high praise to the "ethical teachings" of Jesus, and so on) as proof that Christianity was true.  "See?  Deep down, they know we're right.  They know that there is no morality apart from the Christian ethic that Made This Nation Great.tm  They're just stubbornly refusing to fully acknowledge the truth of Christianity because it gets in the way of whatever pet sin is making them want to be atheists in the first place.  If it weren't so, they wouldn't be trying so hard to maintain a form of faith while denying its power.  As Paul tells us in the Book of Romans, God has written his law on the heart of everyone, so that they are without excuse." 

I used to enjoy reading atheist/Humanist writings and taking validation from the way they so often tried to cozy up to Christianity in various ways, or fall straight into various memetic traps.[1]  Though I now view her philosophy as deeply flawed, it was Ayn Rand who shook me loose from the Christian mind-trap by taking the exact opposite approach: a passionate, forthright, no-compromise/appeasement frontal assault in Christianity's claim to the patent and trademark on morality, and advocacy of consistent, unhindered use of rational methodology to test all claims, including Christianity itself.[2]  If not for her, and George H. Smith's Atheism: The Case Against God delivering the coup de grace, I suppose I'd have had to wait for someone like the Four Horsemen, Paula Kirby, PZ Myers, or Greta Christina to come along.

But: dissensus is good.  There may be some who are repelled by the Gnu Atheist approach, but would give arguments against theism more consideration if they think they'll still get to keep their Christian Valuestm after leaving the supernatural and anti-rational aspects of faith behind.  For them, the "accommodationist" approach may be best.  The existence and prominence of both approaches (and perhaps others not invented yet) would arguably make it harder for theists to pigeonhole atheists, and force them to realize that we have diverse views instead of being a Borg-like horde in favor of GodlessNaziCommunistFundamentalistIslam.

The word "Atheist" has been manipulated into being synonymous with devil-worship, which is ironic, but the majority of Americans would claim they were Agnostic or "Spiritual."  They are turned off by both sides.

Citation?  Last I heard, most Americans (in the seventies percentage wise) claimed to be Christian.  If agnostics or "Nones" want to be "turned off by both sides" and just go about their lives, that's fine with me, assuming that they'll be at least a little more turned off by the Religious Wrong trying to have government tell them what to teach their children and what to do with their genitals than by atheists protesting and speaking out in opposition.

I think that the mission of atheist activists (i.e., the people for whom a discussion of strategy and tactics such as we're having here) should have, as a major goal, to raise the sanity waterline to the point that implicit Christian domination is no longer accepted as "the way things are and ought to be," and atheists are composed of 100% pure, condensed Evilly Evil.  "Nice" atheists do this by being living proof that atheists don't eat kittens on Friday and sacrifice babies to Satan on Sunday.  Strident "New"-type atheists do this by driving a wrecking ball into the structure of hitherto unquestioned Christian presuppositions and privileges.  The same individual atheist can perform both roles, in different contexts.
 1. "Without God there is no meaning to life!  Morality is relative!  Waaaaaah!"  I would like to nominate Sartre and Camus as two of the best apologists Christianity ever had.
 2. Unfortunately, Rand was not willing to let her own claims be subject to the same sort of critical scrutiny, and ended up becoming a kind of female atheist Pope--but that's a discussion for another time. :)
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Offline kcrady

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2011, 10:47:06 AM »
Until "atheists" can give people a reason to live and to care about others, atheism is going to be nothing but a punching bag for bigots.

I am not at all convinced that theism accomplishes this.  If it was really true that death for a believer is an instant ticket to an eternal, perfect, blissful paradise, then the rational course of action is to get oneself martyred as soon as possible.  And failing that, to immanentize the Eschaton by opposing all efforts to address major world problems like climate change, peak oil, Middle East peace, and so on.  The sooner Earth and everyone on it is destroyed, the sooner the Kingdom of God arrives. 

As far as caring about others is concerned, who represents the largest organized body of people who would rather see millions of Americans out of work and freezing on the streets and plunge the whole world into a Greater Depression than charge billionaires the tax rates they paid in the 1990's?  Who never met a war they didn't like?  Who gushes with concern for the life of a Mexican fetus, while wanting it to be kicked out of the country the second it's born?  See those people waving Bibles around?  Them.

So, no.  I refuse to grant the premise that theism provides a legitimate reason to live and care about others, much less that they own the patent.  Yes, I think we should promote a secular world-view.  See Richard Carrier's book Sense and Goodness Without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism for a fine example of an "atheist world-view in a box."  However, promulgating a particular atheist world-view is distinct from the goal of combating bigotry.  In the latter case, the best way to avoid being a punching bag for bigots is to punch back. :D 
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

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Offline Whateverman

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2011, 11:25:57 AM »
Until "atheists" can give people a reason to live and to care about others, atheism is going to be nothing but a punching bag for bigots.

I am not at all convinced that theism accomplishes this.  If it was really true that death for a believer is an instant ticket to an eternal, perfect, blissful paradise, then the rational course of action is to get oneself martyred as soon as possible.
Your sample of "theism" is limited.  The Baha'is, for example, don't think this world is a test for which either you'll be graded Pass or Fail.

More directly, I used the word "theism" intentionally.  While it includes Christianity and Islam (the protagonists in your reply), it also includes other religions - all of them, in fact.  I did this because *all* religions attempt to provide a reason for our existence, a reason to care about other folks, and a purpose for our individual lives.  You can object to specific religious ideas as you choose, but theism in general provides things atheism does not.

Obviously, atheism isn't meant to provide these things - but the question I responded to suggested otherwise.  I've quoted it below:

Quote from: Alendar
Your justification of why we hate God or the idea of God or the people who impose laws on us based on God's laws is well put.  But is there another, more effective way to combat Theism?

If the goal is to combat theism, Atheists are powerless.  They must become more than atheists, and start providing the things that theism attempts to provide.

EDIT & post script:

Quote from: KCrady
So, no.  I refuse to grant the premise that theism provides a legitimate reason to live and care about others
I never claimed theism provides legitimate reasons - that's your word, not mine.  The fact is that it provides reasons, legitimate or not.  Any system of thought that hopes to combat theism must also provide reasons, with the hope that they'll be "more legitimate".
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 12:20:47 PM by Whateverman »
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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2011, 07:19:51 PM »
I must admit that, as an Atheist, I do feel a lot of hate for "God". I would explain this as a hatred of all the evil and suffering in the world that has and does exist, because people choose to embrace religion instead of reality. It also angers me that many Christians seem to know so little about the Bible and exactly the types of things that God approves of, i.e. slavery, maltreatment of women, killing children, etc. I sometimes find it difficult to relate to people who live in a world where fiction is fact, fantasy is reality, and self contradiction is irrelevant. I have often struggled to understand how black women can be Christians. Do they not realize that the Bible was used as justification for oppression against both blacks and women, and that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible itself that supports this? How does one worship a God that happily watches as that person is persecuted for being a black woman, traits entirely beyond their control? It saddens me that I have met, through the course of my former employment in CPS, people who have so little in so many ways, financially(not enough money for food, rent, clothes, etc), intellectually(Mental retardation, dropout, illiterate), emotionally(mental health problems, poor social skills, poor self control), and yet still think that they are somehow blessed by God and that by his grace things will just all work out for them somehow. Such individuals are poorly placed to make positive changes in their lives, and by relying on a nonexistent deity to set things right, they are dooming not only themselves but also their children to a miserable and very marginal existence. Again these people think that they are blessed by having such an existence. If God were to truly bless them, he would make sure their fridge was full, their bills paid, and that they could read and write. Truly, belief in god(s) has only brought about completely unnecessary and self destructive problems. I will freely admit that I hate this, but only because I believe that we as humans have great potential to make life on Earth as humane and enjoyable for all residents of our planet as possible, but that we are not going to make it happen while we believe in fairy tales.

Sorry this is long, but I love discussion of Atheism/Religion/Science/almost anything really, and love others' viewpoints, as they often give me insight into my own. Get used to me writing a lot, and feel free to respond in kind.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline jetson

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2011, 07:29:41 PM »
Welcome!  And I can get used to long writing as long as you occasionally hit the return key!  ;D

Offline VacuusMonastica

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2011, 09:15:08 PM »
I don't hate God - Yahweh to be more clear. He/She/It doesn't exist. What I hate is how people use this to control people who have bought in to the lie. That's what I hate!
Before you believe anything always look for the beLIEve hidden within - VacuusMonastica

At any given moment, I open my eyes and exist. And before that, during all eternity, what was there? Nothing. - Ugo Betti

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2011, 09:29:40 PM »
Welcome!  And I can get used to long writing as long as you occasionally hit the return key!  ;D

Thank You! I shall take your advice, and use the return key more frequently in future posts. As you noticed, I am new here, so I will admit that I likely have a lot to learn.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline jetson

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2011, 09:32:25 PM »
Welcome!  And I can get used to long writing as long as you occasionally hit the return key!  ;D

Thank You! I shall take your advice, and use the return key more frequently in future posts. As you noticed, I am new here, so I will admit that I likely have a lot to learn.

Nah, I'm just mess in with ya.  Make yourself at home, and prepare for some lively debates.  Oh, and save a link to a good Bible website, you'll need it.

Here's a good one.

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2011, 09:44:40 PM »
Thanks Jetson! It is bookmarked. It appears to be a delicious resource. I stumbled upon WWGHA by accident the other day while looking for the number of people God kills in the Bible, and I must admit that as an Atheist I have been looking for a place to discuss and share my beliefs. It seems like this is the place.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Emily

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2011, 10:13:43 PM »
Welcome to the site.

... I must admit that as an Atheist I have been looking for a place to discuss and share my beliefs. It seems like this is the place.

It sure is. Make yourself at home. A lot of great minds post on this forum.

Here's another good biblical resource.

http://www.evilbible.com/
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2011, 10:35:21 PM »
Thanks Emily. I have bookmarked the site.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Onesimus

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Re: Why Atheists Hate "God"
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2011, 12:31:57 AM »
I've come to the conclusion that my ability to embrace fiction is stronger by several magnitudes than my ability to wield reason and logic.  In fact, that's where I've been for the past two years - creating theater.  More on that later.  Suffice it to say that I used to wonder how I stayed a Christian so long, while I now consider it a complete fluke that I deconverted at all.  It was one of the most uncharacteristic and inauthentic things I've ever done.  Eh, too late now.

When I first lost my beliefs, I saw my bad debate skills as a real liability, not only on forums like this but in real life.  I'm a bit less self-negating now, and am looking for ways to contribute to the ongoing discussion using my strengths, which tend toward myth-making.  If nothing else, it's a fairly wide-open field, with most publicly atheist types firmly inhabiting the more rigorous fields of science and logic.  It will be interesting to see what I can make of it all.