Author Topic: Why does God hide himself?  (Read 14041 times)

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Offline ungod

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #174 on: October 26, 2011, 04:03:09 PM »
I have saw some ghosts over the years,

Say - did I have seen Y'all in English class?
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Offline whatchamean?

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #175 on: October 26, 2011, 04:08:50 PM »
You've given a refutation to your own argument in your own statement....brilliant  ;) ...Don't worry though--it happens sometimes to those who are sinking into the abyss of woo-woo.

Look, I'm no scientist, but if the universe exists by chance, as you put it, then it logically follows that the properties of the world that you exist in, which is a direct result of and part of the universe itself, are here as a result of that same random chance event.
I didn't say the universe exists by chance. I said you can look at it that way if you want....no matter how foolish it is to do so. I just wanted you to be aware that Paul and Solomon knew this principle about the world we live in long before Rudolf Clausisus.

In its simplest form, the First Law of Thermodynamics states that neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed. www.allaboutscience.org

All I was saying gonegolfing is that the Bible says the universe has the appearance of being eternal. You draw your own conclusion.

Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #176 on: October 27, 2011, 10:41:01 AM »

Say - did I have seen Y'all in English class?

No you didn't seen me'yall in English class. In case you want to know my result in English, it was grade . It could have been better but not a lot of people could read my handwriting, unfortunately.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #177 on: October 27, 2011, 06:39:41 PM »
In case you want to know my result in English, it was grade .

Classic!
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #178 on: October 27, 2011, 09:22:10 PM »
That is not evidence.  That is the claim that requires evidence.
You're right, which is why it makes no sense to assume that back when these events took place the ones making the claims couldn't produce the evidence. If the Apostles were unable to back their outrageous claims, the movement would have died out:
 

Incorrect, for several reasons. You have to demonstrate that movements, in fact, do die out when there is no evidence to support them, and they clearly don't, because most of what humans believe is crap, unsupported by evidence. Bogus chain emails circulate around the globe, years after their successful form has been evolved, purely because the premise is appealing. All the story can be verified as rubbish, using Google. Islam hasn't died out, even though they supposedly have the Bible to look at, to fault their belief. They choose instead, to believe that the Bible is corrupted Hebrew rubbish. Marcion got a good run with his version of Christianity, until the one we have to day won out, by using hell.

Early Christianity was propped up by Judaism, and the first Christians appeared to be "Ebionites", or Essenses, who believed that Jesus was more human, and had re-stated Jewish law in terms that the Pharisiac [Hillel] was moving towards: Love thy neighbour. "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets...". They expected the world to end, shortly. In the synoptic gospels, we can see how the story was slowly developing; being copied from one Matthew-like book to another. After about 40 years, there was no official history to compare it to, or memory, so once the story had moved beyond that which could actually be verified, they could insert anything they liked, as long as they could wipe out the dissenters. You can see how radical the gospel of John is, compared to the synoptic. This is direct evidence that John made something up, and got away with it. Paul got away with his insanity, too, even though he admitted not having met Jesus.

This process of addition to a religion can go on, as long as people can get away with forging documents, and clobbering opposing factions; until there is good documentary evidence from one authority, that states what the entire canon and codex is. The Jews will not accept Jesus, but Christians outnumber them. Religion is by number and strength, not evidence.

So, back to your original premise:  "it makes no sense to assume". Axiomatically, people do not rise from the dead, so it makes no sense at all to assume that there is a proper chain of evidence back to the event. Indeed, how would the apostles ever have produced evidence of Jesus' resurrection, if he just vanished? Did they have a camera? These claims have always had to be without evidence.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #179 on: October 27, 2011, 09:31:35 PM »

In its simplest form, the First Law of Thermodynamics states that neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed. www.allaboutscience.org

All I was saying gonegolfing is that the Bible says the universe has the appearance of being eternal. You draw your own conclusion.

It only has the appearance of being eternal to me, who is going to die soon. It had no appearance before I was alive, and will have none after I die. I'm afraid that Quantum mechanics and the Copenhagen interpretation shows that the whole universe could live entirely from my perspective. What the universe appears to be, to ape-like creatures who are barely more evolved than apes, is likely to be irrelevant, in the long run. Christian arguments, leveraging the ignorance of the listener, are only of use to convert people. You don't actually believe that it's true; or if you do, you shouldn't.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #180 on: October 27, 2011, 09:49:36 PM »
I forgot Mormonism. Smith looked into a hat, and came up with a load of crap. When tested, he looked into the hat again, and came up with another load of crap; claiming it was from from another tablet. More crap. Current Mormon population: 14 million; increasing 8% per year, and they are quite devout, so that counts heavily against Christian population. They are not interested in what your truth is. Chain of Evidence, logic, and commonsense are not terribly relevant in human belief. Expression of belief, numbers and brainwashing is what counts.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline C

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #181 on: October 28, 2011, 01:58:23 AM »
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I'm saying they came to know Him as they lived with Him and associated Him with what the OT scriptures said about Him.

But it was all written LONG after all that by people who never even KNEW him.

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Something that is unprovable isn't essentially the same thing as something which is untrue. I think where your're having a hard time with what I'm saying is in not realizing that you can't know anything about an individual life ( name, lineage, where he lived, accomplishments, etc.) without the testimony of another.

Why the testimony of another, which can be often unreliable? Clearly that individual can write his own biography and claim accomplishments.


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Which story of Jesus made Him look more Godly? To begin with, their aren't alot of "different stories" about Jesus. There are thousands of manuscripts and although they have discrepencies, the differences are minor compared with "other" ancient writings.

Minor? Who is Joseph's father? (Matthew 1:2-17 and Luke 3:23-38) Why is it that only Matthew and Luke mention the virgin birth? And you'd think after receiving a message from God about Jesus being all-powerful and great (Matthew/Luke), that Jesus would be treated better instead of complaining about how his family acts towards him (Mark 3:20-21 and Mark 6:4-6).

And if you read further on, you can obviously see that all of the Gospels contradict each other, that the authors clearly rewrote history, were edited to match the Church's teachings and even tried to fit a Jesus into Old Testament "prophecies".

Also, The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew; Chapter 18 which was edited out of the final version of the Bible states: "Lo, suddenly there came forth from the cave many dragons; and when the children saw them, they cried out in great terror. Then Jesus went down from the bosom of His mother and stood on His feet before the dragons; and they adored Jesus, and thereafter retired."

If that isn't Godly to you, I have one more example:

From the First Gospel of Infancy 18:13-16, which was also edited out because it was either too awesome or that the rest of the edited out gospels portray kid Jesus as an asshole who smites children just for stepping in a pool of water, states:

"Then the Lord Jesus called the serpent, it presently came forth and submitted to him. To the serpent he said, "Go and suck out all the poison which thou hast infused into that boy"; so the serpent crept to the boy, and took away all its poison again. Then the Lord Jesus cursed the serpent so that it immediately burst asunder, and died."


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I'm not dismissing any manuscript from any culture. I'm telling you that compared to any other manuscript evidence that has ever been found, the Bible has no equal in mistake free content or volume. It's not even close.

And...what evidence is this?

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Name one.

..Crossing of the Red Sea.
A global deluge.
The creation of the universe by a God that demands circumcision and animal sacrifices.
The resurrection of Christ.
Et cetera.

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I didn't think you would answer the question. I've heard it said that atheists are free thinkers, but I've seen a pattern since I've been here which indicates it might not be true.

Atheists are humans too. We can be selfish, stupid, jealous, be narrow-minded and so forth. Though I see very few instances of that in this forum on part of the atheists/agnostics/others. Personally for me, there was just this one point in my life when I just had enough and grew exasperated.. and it's significantly more difficult for me to tolerate religious fanatics and Bible-defenders than in the past when I had become an atheist. It wears you down. It really does. So, yes, you may notice I'm very intolerant as compared to others.

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So people followed Jesus teachings to their deaths because He was a sreet juggler, but not because He could do miracles. Ok.

Completely missed the point.


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And what did the contemporary historians have to say about the person who was fried in the pyroclastic flow? What was his name? Did he accomplish any feats of noteriety? Even your assertion that he was "from Pompeii" is conjecture. He may have just picked a really bad time to go on vacation.

It is impossible to gather that kind of information about that particular person and others from Pompeii. That's akin to demanding the personal histories of every individual who has ever lived on this planet and if no such information can be gathered, then it's unprovable, insignificant or whatever else you deem it so.

And besides, it's really not needed. It's like demanding you know every feat the remains of a neanderthal (such as the one called 'Lucy') did when all you need to know is the more important stuff..like evolutionary details.

And also, I mentioned clothes did I not? Clothes back then were pretty distinguishable from each other due to cultures and even where you lived. Residents of Pompeii during summer would wear their summer-time clothing unique to the Pompeii weather and if the majority are wearing such clothing, then they are most likely the residents of Pompeii. While others, if found in wool and slightly heavier clothing, could be determined as traders from the north or outsiders.


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That's the point C. Apparently, to those who met Jesus in person, they saw evidence to believe His claim of being God in the flesh.

Again, the people who wrote about it never knew Jesus nor anyone who even actually met him.


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When you consider the time (1st century), the insignificant country He lived in and the duration of Jesus' ministry (3 years), it's not at all surprising that more people didn't meet or write about Him. What is believed to be the first inquiry about Jesus by a foreigner occurs just before His execution. That makes sense.

It's surprising how an infinitely powerful and all-knowing God would limit himself to one particular location, for a particular length of time. This God is a troll. And the "country" wasn't that insignificant considering it was the property of the Roman Empire at the time.

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I think we believe the same things should be considered when examining history, so what's your point?

The point is that the remains of the military equipment used aren't exactly testimony..they're evidence.
 

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He's in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, where Agustus, Cyrenius and Archelaus are mentioned, so I guess you believe that both Matthew and Luke decided to write about real people and real places and real events....and then chose to invent Jesus

Sure you can argue that they wrote about real people, real places and real events. But just because they may had a semblance of a historical setting doesn't mean the character they wrote into the story existed or even accomplished those feats at all.

It's like arguing that the creators of Assassins Creed who used the real, historically accurate settings, peoples and individuals of the Crusades/Italian Renaissance and then inserted a dual blade-wielding assassin who can climb all of Middle East's/Rome's buildings and assassinated the freaking Pope's son just apparently did it for the shits and giggles while actually portraying a real character who actually existed at one point in history and did everything he did in the game that portrays him.

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Offline ungod

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #182 on: October 28, 2011, 08:08:15 AM »

Say - did I have seen Y'all in English class?

No you didn't seen me'yall in English class. In case you want to know my result in English, it was grade . It could have been better but not a lot of people could read my handwriting, unfortunately.
There's a difference betwixt grammar and handwriting. But I suppose that's not covered in home skooling.

"I have saw"...... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #183 on: October 28, 2011, 09:23:06 AM »
Why the testimony of another, which can be often unreliable? Clearly that individual can write his own biography and claim accomplishments.

Howdy, C. Might want to think about this statement for a minute. Clearly that individual can say whatever he wants about himself and others. He could make wild fantastic claims that can neither be proved nor disproved. Do you really think a single source is more reliable just because it is a first hand account?


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Offline C

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #184 on: October 28, 2011, 10:21:47 AM »
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Howdy, C. Might want to think about this statement for a minute. Clearly that individual can say whatever he wants about himself and others. He could make wild fantastic claims that can neither be proved nor disproved. Do you really think a single source is more reliable just because it is a first hand account?

Hello Jay, I was well aware that the person could claim outlandish things without any proof whatsoever, but at least we would know the person existed and pick out what seems to be the most feasible things in his/her life  (it would REALLY depend on what the content of their auto-biography is) by looking at other evidence besides "testimony" contrary to being unable to absolutely "know anything about an individual life ( name, lineage, where he lived, accomplishments, etc.)"

You'd also have to take into consideration what language the person wrote in meaning even without other contemporary sources, we'd be able to see what area of the world he/she was in for one thing.

It's a crude statement, but slightly less so than the one it was addressing.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 10:28:11 AM by C »
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #185 on: October 28, 2011, 11:19:16 AM »
No evidence? How about seeing them with our own eyes? I have saw some ghosts over the years, but unfortunately for me, I have no evidence to support that. Maybe I was just hallucinating or something. In the future if I see any ghosts I will make a video of the sightings and put them here as evidence. They will not be edited either.

yep, you do that.  with the thousands of others who claim teh same nonsense and have no evidence but the video version of "backmasking".
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #186 on: October 28, 2011, 11:33:38 AM »
I've already answered the question of why Jesus doesn't make guest appearances on Jay Leno.

"The teaching about the cross is foolishness to those who are being lost, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 It is written in the Scriptures:
    "I will cause the wise to lose their wisdom;
       I will make the wise unable to understand." — Isaiah 29:14
  Where is the wise person? Where is the educated person? Where is the skilled talker of this world? God has made the wisdom of the world foolish. In the wisdom of God the world did not know God through its own wisdom. So God chose to use the message that sounds foolish to save those who believe. 1 Corinthians 1:18- 21

It's quite amazing that this prophecy is being fulfilled right here, right now, between you and me.

actually, it's been supposedly "fulfilled" since Christians have been claiming this nonsense and Jews have been saying "Hey, this guy doesnt' fit the prophesies".   So, again, the desperate hope of the Christian for the "end times" again shows itself to be so much myth and hate. 

It's rather sad that such hypocrites as yourself want to call anyone who doesn't agree with you "foolish".  IF the wisdom of the world is so foolish, why do you use it constantly as long as it makes you comfortable in this modern world?   
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Offline C

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #187 on: October 28, 2011, 12:34:57 PM »
Wanted to address the original topic on "Why does God hide himself", as per the posts in that Christian forum.

One says:

Quote
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

Another:

Quote
I love the above verse and find such an awesome deepness in God in things that are hidden. I find the Bible full of hidden mysteries (Greek Sacred Secret) and what amazes me are some many brothers and sisters in the Lord actually believe there are no mysteries in scripture.

God Himself hides Himself from man. This was not the case in the Garden of Eden; but once man became naked our perception of God changed. When Adam died; he did not die at that moment as we all know death. He died phyically at the age of 930 years old. But what did happened is he died spiritually at that moment he became naked which has nothing to do with not having clothing in the natural sense.

You see a dead man cannot see, hear, touch etc. A spiritual dead man is dead to the realm of the spirit and cannot see, hear, touch God as Adam did in the garden.

So really, God hides because, well..uh, we know when we're naked and not now?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 01:42:50 PM by C »
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Offline ungod

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #188 on: October 28, 2011, 01:35:32 PM »
Wanted to address the original topic on "Why does God hide himself", as per the posts in that Christian forum.

One says:

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

Quote

You see a dead man cannot see, hear, touch etc. A spiritual dead man is dead to the realm of the spirit and cannot see, hear, touch God as Adam did in the garden.


The Bible says, "No man hath seen God." Adam was a man. How could he then have seen God? Or, is God a liar?
 :police:
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think." - Hitler

Offline velkyn

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #189 on: October 28, 2011, 01:42:12 PM »
Quote
You see a dead man cannot see, hear, touch etc. A spiritual dead man is dead to the realm of the spirit and cannot see, hear, touch God as Adam did in the garden.

So really, God hides because, well..uh, we know when we're naked and not now?

that's one of those nifty "chicken and egg" problems that Chrsitians always nail themselves in the forehead with. 
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Offline jtp56

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #190 on: October 28, 2011, 07:18:19 PM »
According to the bible, we are created in the image of god, (men anyway), and when Adam ate of the tree of knowledge, he gained god's knowledge of shame. (Remember the fig leaf?)
Thus god does not show himself because he is ashamed.

There are no gyms in heaven, but mild and honey flows like rivers. I'd bet he's pretty gross.

Genesis 1:27 - So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Genesis 2: 25 - Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Genesis 3:6-7 - and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Ok, question and proof Bible is wrong argument for atheists:  Genesis 2:16 & 17 - “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Did they die when they ate?  Why not?

Brakeman, read the Bible if your going to critique it.  At least I've read Hawking, others, etc. etc. to argue from a scientific perspective here.  If you do decide to crack open a Bible ( I doubt, along with everyone here except Christians ),  just read the first three Chapters of the Gospel of John, thats all you have to read, although Romans 1 explains a lot about observational science.  Pay close attention to Jesus conversation with Nicodemus.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #191 on: October 28, 2011, 07:27:34 PM »
Brakeman, read the Bible if your going to critique it.  At least I've read Hawking, others, etc. etc. to argue from a scientific perspective here.

No you haven't. I think we've pretty much established over and over again by now that your knowledge of science, and anyone related to it, is so miniscule so as to actually drain away from the sum total of human knowledge. There are entire science books in classrooms around the globe that are sitting around with nothing but blank pages thanks to you.

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Offline jtp56

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #192 on: October 28, 2011, 07:30:08 PM »
Wanted to address the original topic on "Why does God hide himself", as per the posts in that Christian forum.

One says:

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

Quote

You see a dead man cannot see, hear, touch etc. A spiritual dead man is dead to the realm of the spirit and cannot see, hear, touch God as Adam did in the garden.


The Bible says, "No man hath seen God." Adam was a man. How could he then have seen God? Or, is God a liar?
 :police:

This is he best I've seen on this site.    HmmMMMMmm, Jedi atheist you want to be!

Did Adam see God?  Why wasn't God there when they ate?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #193 on: October 28, 2011, 07:32:19 PM »
Brakeman, read the Bible if your going to critique it.  At least I've read Hawking, others, etc. etc. to argue from a scientific perspective here.

No you haven't. I think we've pretty much established over and over again by now that your knowledge of science, and anyone related to it, is so miniscule so as to actually drain away from the sum total of human knowledge. There are entire science books in classrooms around the globe that are sitting around with nothing but blank pages thanks to you.

Are you fricking kidding me.  Scientific textbooks in America drone on and on about evolution and an old earth.  And where do we ship them when we buy new ones?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #194 on: October 28, 2011, 07:39:30 PM »
Brakeman, read the Bible if your going to critique it.  At least I've read Hawking, others, etc. etc. to argue from a scientific perspective here.

No you haven't. I think we've pretty much established over and over again by now that your knowledge of science, and anyone related to it, is so miniscule so as to actually drain away from the sum total of human knowledge. There are entire science books in classrooms around the globe that are sitting around with nothing but blank pages thanks to you.

Are you fricking kidding me.  Scientific textbooks in America drone on and on about evolution and an old earth.  And where do we ship them when we buy new ones?

Not only was that almost completely irrelevant to what you quoted and fairly nonsensical in context. It also added nothing and was entirely stupid in addition. Congratulations, you seem to have not lost your touch after all.

Now continue to caper for my amusement, my little Iowan Monkey-Man.

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Offline jtp56

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #195 on: October 28, 2011, 07:41:24 PM »
Brakeman, read the Bible if your going to critique it.  At least I've read Hawking, others, etc. etc. to argue from a scientific perspective here.

No you haven't. I think we've pretty much established over and over again by now that your knowledge of science, and anyone related to it, is so miniscule so as to actually drain away from the sum total of human knowledge. There are entire science books in classrooms around the globe that are sitting around with nothing but blank pages thanks to you.

Alzeal...you've drank the kool aid!  I've actually read my kids science, history, and other text books when they were in High School.   I know a guy who is a "missionary" in Africa (I don't think he is really, but) that I have helped ship boxes upon boxes of these American textbooks full of evolution and old earth crap.  I hope the teachers can help them discern for themselves the truth, you know; how old earth theories keep changing, right?
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #196 on: October 28, 2011, 07:48:16 PM »
Brakeman, read the Bible if your going to critique it.  At least I've read Hawking, others, etc. etc. to argue from a scientific perspective here.

No you haven't. I think we've pretty much established over and over again by now that your knowledge of science, and anyone related to it, is so miniscule so as to actually drain away from the sum total of human knowledge. There are entire science books in classrooms around the globe that are sitting around with nothing but blank pages thanks to you.  Who's the "monkey man"??????!!!!!!!

Are you fricking kidding me.  Scientific textbooks in America drone on and on about evolution and an old earth.  And where do we ship them when we buy new ones?

Not only was that almost completely irrelevant to what you quoted and fairly nonsensical in context. It also added nothing and was entirely stupid in addition. Congratulations, you seem to have not lost your touch after all.

Now continue to caper for my amusement, my little Iowan Monkey-Man.

Where are you coming from man?!?!?  Read my posts!!!  How was my last post irrelevant to addressing your straw man side argument which I addressed??????  Read my posts!!!!!! Hawkings agrees you can't prove either case!!!!!
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #197 on: October 28, 2011, 07:51:54 PM »
Brakeman, read the Bible if your going to critique it.  At least I've read Hawking, others, etc. etc. to argue from a scientific perspective here.

No you haven't. I think we've pretty much established over and over again by now that your knowledge of science, and anyone related to it, is so miniscule so as to actually drain away from the sum total of human knowledge. There are entire science books in classrooms around the globe that are sitting around with nothing but blank pages thanks to you.

Alzeal...you've drank the kool aid!  I've actually read my kids science, history, and other text books when they were in High School.   I know a guy who is a "missionary" in Africa (I don't think he is really, but) that I have helped ship boxes upon boxes of these American textbooks full of evolution and old earth crap.  I hope the teachers can help them discern for themselves the truth, you know; how old earth theories keep changing, right?

Yes I do. They change because science discovers new information that it didn't previously know that led to a different conclusion. Which is exactly how science is supposed to work.

Nothing in that post however does anything to show that you have any knowledge of science, or argues against evolution at all. Or even demonstrates that your intellect rises above that of your average household toaster. In fact the entire post is still utterly meaningless.

Claiming you have knowledge does not make it so. Especially when everything you voice so far has been utter ignorance.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #198 on: October 28, 2011, 07:54:32 PM »
Brakeman, read the Bible if your going to critique it.  At least I've read Hawking, others, etc. etc. to argue from a scientific perspective here.

No you haven't. I think we've pretty much established over and over again by now that your knowledge of science, and anyone related to it, is so miniscule so as to actually drain away from the sum total of human knowledge. There are entire science books in classrooms around the globe that are sitting around with nothing but blank pages thanks to you.

Alzeal...you've drank the kool aid!  I've actually read my kids science, history, and other text books when they were in High School.   I know a guy who is a "missionary" in Africa (I don't think he is really, but) that I have helped ship boxes upon boxes of these American textbooks full of evolution and old earth crap.  I hope the teachers can help them discern for themselves the truth, you know; how old earth theories keep changing, right?
just because you don't understand science does not mean it is wrong.
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Alzael

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #199 on: October 28, 2011, 07:55:01 PM »

Where are you coming from man?!?!?  Read my posts!!!  How was my last post irrelevant to addressing your straw man side argument which I addressed??????  Read my posts!!!!!! Hawkings agrees you can't prove either case!!!!!

It had nothing to do with your claims of possessing scientific knowledge, or even having read a science book. That's how it was irrelevant (you're really not good at following a conversation are you?).

Do you mean that I actually have to explain to you why "Are you fricking kidding me.  Scientific textbooks in America drone on and on about evolution and an old earth.  And where do we ship them when we buy new ones?". Does not in anyway show that you know science?

You are such a sad little person.

Furthermore prove how it was a Strawman (I'm guessing that you don't actually know what that is by your use of it here).
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 07:56:33 PM by Alzael »
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #200 on: October 28, 2011, 08:05:08 PM »
Brakeman, read the Bible if your going to critique it.  At least I've read Hawking, others, etc. etc. to argue from a scientific perspective here.

No you haven't. I think we've pretty much established over and over again by now that your knowledge of science, and anyone related to it, is so miniscule so as to actually drain away from the sum total of human knowledge. There are entire science books in classrooms around the globe that are sitting around with nothing but blank pages thanks to you.

Alzeal...you've drank the kool aid!  I've actually read my kids science, history, and other text books when they were in High School.   I know a guy who is a "missionary" in Africa (I don't think he is really, but) that I have helped ship boxes upon boxes of these American textbooks full of evolution and old earth crap.  I hope the teachers can help them discern for themselves the truth, you know; how old earth theories keep changing, right?

Yes I do. They change because science discovers new information that it didn't previously know that led to a different conclusion. Which is exactly how science is supposed to work.

Nothing in that post however does anything to show that you have any knowledge of science, or argues against evolution at all. Or even demonstrates that your intellect rises above that of your average household toaster. In fact the entire post is still utterly meaningless.

Claiming you have knowledge does not make it so. Especially when everything you voice so far has been utter ignorance.

I have presented arguments on another thread on this site using citations from books by guys on your side.  How they claim the fossil record demonstrates catastrophic events gave us the fossil record, such as a Noahic Deluge (a term used by your guys since it happens to correspond to the Biblical account of history).
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #201 on: October 28, 2011, 08:15:10 PM »

I have presented arguments on another thread on this site using citations from books by guys on your side.  How they claim the fossil record demonstrates catastrophic events gave us the fossil record, such as a Noahic Deluge (a term used by your guys since it happens to correspond to the Biblical account of history).

All of which were then not only subsequently pointed out to be wrong ( a case which you ignored). The use of such arguments in and of themselves showed that you have no knowledge of the subjects that you are talking about.

Similiar to when you tried to use Einsteins model of the beginning universe (which you confused with something else) in your previous talk with me. As soon as I pointed out all of your flaws, you went onto another tangent and quickly ended up abandoning the thread. Only to spew more of your ignorant bile elsewhere on the forum and run away when you were shown to be wrong again.

As Kinhell himself has pointed out in the other thread.


Aren't you the dropkick who loudly claimed, with all the unmerited confidence, arrogance and rudeness we see here, that a "drop" is not a scientific unit of measurement, only to be instantly  proven totally wrong?

Seeing as you were too limited in integrity to admit your error or to correct your claim in the the face of incontrovertible evidence, and too cowardly to even address the matter at all, can you explain why anyone should be bothered to give you the slightest amount of credibility for anything you say whatsoever?

Is making-shit-up a learned skill, or were you just blessed by your god with an overabundance of the talent?

I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate a single iota of scientific knowledge. Actually I'll settle for a sign that indicates a capacity for thought. Given your well-documented history of running away like a little girl, I have a feeling it won't be forthcoming anytime soon.

But there is always hope, isn't there?
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline jtp56

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Re: Why does God hide himself?
« Reply #202 on: October 28, 2011, 08:23:42 PM »
Where are you coming from?  "I don't understand science?"  Are you kidding me?   

You guys do not know what science is!!!  To you, science is by poll. What ever "most" scientists believe is fact!  Read history man!!  At the turn of the last century, what was the commonly held position of the beginning?  What was it in 1945? 

"Scientists have detected molecules from outer space in ancient clay sediments, providing crucial support for the idea that an enormous object slammed into the Earth and snuffed out the last of the dinosaurs about 66 million years ago."

HmmmMMMMMmmmm,  Derek Ager argument???

Look at your precious Wiki about Ager.

"Scientists tell us it is almost a certainty that life forms elsewhere in the universe have evolved in the same way as those on Earth. However, it is also almost certain that none of those other life forms look like us, for instance. Why not?"

Evidence for this is what?????????????????????????????????????

"Scientists conclude it is simply not plausible that the same devastating environmental conditions, resulting from chance events on Earth, also occurred during the same stages of evolution elsewhere."

Wow!!!!!!  Plausibility is Proof!!!!  I give, hmmmmmmm scientists....it must be true.

The Bible hasn't changed.  It's History, which any discussion of beginnings is either History or Philosophy.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.