Why so Angry

[kin hell]

I'm new here but for the most part all i have seen is angry tirades directed towards God.

L-chaim you argue very strongly against making-up-strawmen elsewhere, so practice what you preach........

... either give evidence of your claim above (you lying lightweight)

or just fuck off for proving to be yet another theist making shit up  ..........AKA lying for god.

[L-Chaim]

I'm new here but for the most part all i have seen is angry tirades directed towards God.

L-chaim you argue very strongly against making-up-strawmen elsewhere, so practice what you preach........

... either give evidence of your claim above (you lying lightweight)

or just fuck off for proving to be yet another theist making shit up  ..........AKA lying for god.

Talk to me in a respectfull manner and ill talk to you in kind. Else dont bother talking to me at all.

[dloubet]

Perhaps what you're interpreting as hatred towards god is our unflattering descriptions of it. We often use these unflattering descriptions as a means of getting believers to think about their fictional god from a different perspective. This is because from our point of view, the fictional god character as described in the bible is a villain and not a hero, and if we can undercut the love for the fictional being with a fresh and more consistent perspective, maybe we can cause the believer to examine his beliefs in in a more rational manner and perhaps cease to be a believer.

It's as if the world were filled with Star Wars fans that were prepared to enact laws to force everyone to be Star Wars fans, and not only thought he was real, but also thought the Darth Vader character was the hero. If that was the case, one tactic to try to remedy the situation would be to show that the Darth Vader character was villainous and not heroic.

And we would have people chiming in insisting that for us to describe Darth Vader in unflattering terms means we actually believe in Darth Vader.

[kin hell]

Talk to me in a respectfull manner and ill talk to you in kind. Else dont bother talking to me at all.

Whatever dude,  get over yourself.

.......meanwhile you are still obliged to back your original claims, or will you play my "lack of respect" as the necessary escape clause because you cannot provide the required evidence?

Put up or shut up.       


................respectful enough?



Actually while I think about it   
....it wasn't me who showed the absolute disrespect of coming new to an atheist forum, making a less than respectful claim about all the forums atheist participants, and has since not shown the slightest intent to offer the least part of evidence to back the smear.

Why the hell should I show you the least respect you hypocritice?

By the way L'cha  it's not me to whom you need show the evidence.
It is the forum at large whom you "described", and the moderators specifically who, like everyone else, are expecting you to provide evidence for your claims. (it is one of the requirements of the site)




Of course you could just admit that you made that shit up.

[curiousgirl]

L-Chaim, I am going to assume that you meant the Fine-Tuning Argument earlier when you said "fine tunning". Here is an article for you:

http://www.strongatheism.net/library/against/problems_of_fine_tuning/

we should not be surprised or befuddled that the universe is adapted to our needs, since we evolved within the universe and its parameters

If you want, you can reply to this and my other post in a single post.

[Bad Pear]

Whatever dude,  get over yourself.

A well reasoned response if I've ever seen one.

You obviously dont understand the complexity of Monotheisim in the ANE context if you want to learn i'll email you a paper on it. But i do not have to refere to a dictionary, just because the definition doesn't fit squarely with your preconception of what the word actually means does not mean i wrong, your uninformed but i understand as your not interested in this area.

I understand the context just fine thank you. Like most theists who venture here you fail to realize that many of us are former theists ourselves. We know your arguments. We understand how and why you think the way you do. My point was you are either lying about believing in other gods or you, like so many others, do not understand the meaning of the word monotheism. In any case, your comment back on page one completely misses the point of what Zankuu was saying.

I second kin hell's request per the rules of this forum...

either give evidence of your claim above[1]

1.	I'm new here but for the most part all i have seen is angry tirades directed towards God.

[L-Chaim]

Talk to me in a respectfull manner and ill talk to you in kind. Else dont bother talking to me at all.

Whatever dude,  get over yourself.

.......meanwhile you are still obliged to back your original claims, or will you play my "lack of respect" as the necessary escape clause because you cannot provide the required evidence?

Put up or shut up.       


................respectful enough?

At least there no profanity.

Perhpaps my opinion was swayed with the posts i viewd in general throughout the forum, there are topics that have the title "'Why Atheists being Angry is Justified'" and i have had people curse God to me in this very post so calling it a straw man in not justified here.

[Bad Pear]

Perhpaps my opinion was swayed with the posts i viewd in general throughout the forum, there are topics that have the title "'Why Atheists being Angry is Justified'" and i have had people curse God to me in this very post so calling it a straw man in not justified here.

L-Chaim,

"Why Atheists being Angry is Justified" is NOT the same as "Why Atheists being Angry at God is Justified". Do you see the difference there? Did you bother to read the post or were you basing your conclusion off of your perception of the title alone? Judging a book by (misreading) it's cover, so to speak.

Also, if you would review the rules of this forum you would know that " the posts i viewd in general throughout the forum" [sic] is not a satisfactory response to requests for citation. Please point to one or more specific posts or retract your OP[1].

Edited for emphasis, cause we all know it's needed.

1.	One can dream, can't they?

[L-Chaim]

I understand the context just fine thank you. Like most theists who venture here you fail to realize that many of us are former theists ourselves. We know your arguments. We understand how and why you think the way you do.

Ok call my bluff is it ?

ok i'll call it..... whats the the ANE concept of the divine council and how does it fit into the modern day monotheisim ? and with the ANE backdrop in mind explain to me what best describes the Hebrew scriptures Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism ?

Since you know how i think and why i think it this should be easy for a man of such capabilities as mind reading.

My point was you are either lying about believing in other gods or you, like so many others, do not understand the meaning of the word monotheism. In any case, your comment back on page one completely misses the point of what Zankuu was saying.

Psalm 82 confirms the existance of other gods but this would invlove me having to describe what a god means in the Hebrew thought to you and i dont think i can be bothered just now as you are not being a very nice pear.

[kin hell]

Perhpaps my opinion was swayed with the posts i viewd in general throughout the forum, there are topics that have the title "'Why Atheists being Angry is Justified'" and i have had people curse God to me in this very post so calling it a straw man in not justified here.

....backtracking weasel words 

so we've gone from

for the most part all i have seen is angry tirades directed towards God.

to that unworthy pap above....

Perhaps you would've been better telling the truth from the start instead of spinning your POV to suit your intent.


...........or are you still having trouble with atheists not having a god to be angry with?


And are you going to apologise to this forum's atheists for the disrespect you showed them with your fabricated survey results in your OP?

[bertatberts]

Because it has been repeated throughout this thread that atheists are no more angry at your god than we are at Darth Vader, yet you insist that what you think we think is right and what we know we think is wrong. Put simply, your arrogance is pissing me off

Listen there are angry comment directed at God in this post alone so it's NOT my imagination and i only repeated it because i was specifically asked to !

You are starting to lose your place as my favorite lol

Where!!!!!!!
Please point out exactly where!
Thank you.
I can see it. It is most definitely your imagination.


L -Chaim:
I hate no human being, It is infantile to hate any fictional being, I actually hate nothing, and no one, but I do have a distinct disdain for theism and religion(s), because both get people killed.
This is why I believe we non-believers are here, to try and fathom the reasoning's behind god belief.
You were ask by Curiousgirl to explain what logical arguments brought you to such a belief.
I would like to see those too, the ones you supplied have all been refuted a thousand times.  So I will ask the question again "What logical argument(s) have brought you to the conclusion that Bible God exists?"

[L-Chaim]

[/quote=Blaziken_rjcf]Because it has been repeated throughout this thread that atheists are no more angry at your god than we are at Darth Vader, yet you insist that what you think we think is right and what we know we think is wrong. Put simply, your arrogance is pissing me off

Listen there are angry comment directed at God in this post alone so it's NOT my imagination and i only repeated it because i was specifically asked to !

1st page poster called nick.

" All they want is power, control, and money.  And the control part is over all of us not just their flock.  So yes, f*ck your God."

[L-Chaim]

Perhpaps my opinion was swayed with the posts i viewd in general throughout the forum, there are topics that have the title "'Why Atheists being Angry is Justified'" and i have had people curse God to me in this very post so calling it a straw man in not justified here.

....backtracking weasel words 

so we've gone from

for the most part all i have seen is angry tirades directed towards God.

to that unworthy pap above....

Both convey the same thought in different words, you must have done well in the school debate team sheeesh.  Are you  a Fully Paid Up Members Of The Hair Splitters Convention ?

[Aaron123]

" All they want is power, control, and money.  And the control part is over all of us not just their flock.  So yes, f*ck your God."

Who is this directed at?  Atheists?  I sure hope you're not implying that we're atheists because we want money and power...

NM

[One Above All]

" All they want is power, control, and money.  And the control part is over all of us not just their flock.  So yes, f*ck your God."

Who is this directed at?  Atheists?  I sure hope you're not implying that we're atheists because we want money and power...

Aaron, re-read his post. That's a quote from Nick

[Bad Pear]

whats the the ANE concept of the divine council and how does it fit into the modern day monotheisim ?

For the vast majority of Christians (because let's face it, we're not talking about other monotheists here) it doesn't fit. I understand that the ancient Hebrews, like most peoples in the ANE, were not Monotheists. Almost all modern day Christians would disagree with your take on this subject. You see, they are indeed Monotheists. It's mostly definitional, and you defined them as gods[1]

and with the ANE backdrop in mind explain to me what best describes the Hebrew scriptures Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism ?

Henotheism, which as you note is not the same thing as Monotheism. I have no issue if you want to say that you believe in Christian Henotheism, just don't say that you "are a Christian Monotheist" when you clearly are not.

Psalm 82 confirms the existance of other gods but this would invlove me having to describe what a god means in the Hebrew thought to you...

As I said above, I understand that the ancient Hebrews were not Monotheists. You can play move the goalpost all day long by redefining the word "god", but that does not change the simple fact that if you believe in more than one, regardless of rank, you are by definition not a Monotheist. More to Zankuu's original point and since you do not deny the "existence" of other gods does this mean that you believe Odin, Thor, Zues, Ra, etc. to be real entities? Are they part of the Elohim? Are they El's henchmen?

...as you are not being a very nice pear.

Hence the name. Still waiting on examples from your OP.

1.	"i do not deny that there are other gods" From reply #8

[kin hell]

Perhpaps my opinion was swayed with the posts i viewd in general throughout the forum, there are topics that have the title "'Why Atheists being Angry is Justified'" and i have had people curse God to me in this very post so calling it a straw man in not justified here.

....backtracking weasel words 

so we've gone from

for the most part all i have seen is angry tirades directed towards God.

to that unworthy pap above....

Both convey the same thought in different words, you must have done well in the school debate team sheeesh.  Are you  a Fully Paid Up Members Of The Hair Splitters Convention ?

My mistake, I must have stupidly thought you were offering some sort of evidence, but apparently not.

So, still no evidence to back up you initial disrespectful OP then?

.......and too small a person to retract that OP or apologise for your scurrilous and erroneous typecasting.   

OK  here's your chance   

either offer evidence to show how an atheist can be angry with god and still be an atheist,
or show how for the most part this forum is made up of tirades against god,
or retract your disingenuous OP

or I'm reporting you for dodging 

[L-Chaim]

For the vast majority of Christians (because let's face it, we're not talking about other monotheists here) it doesn't fit. I understand that the ancient Hebrews, like most peoples in the ANE, were not Monotheists. Almost all modern day Christians would disagree with your take on this subject. You see, they are indeed Monotheists. It's mostly definitional, and you defined them as gods[1]

1.	"i do not deny that there are other gods" From reply #8

They were indeed Monothiests for them there was only one God worthy of worship who created all other gods, Shema Yisrael Adonai eloheynu Adonai Echad sound familiar ?

Henotheism, which as you note is not the same thing as Monotheism. I have no issue if you want to say that you believe in Christian Henotheism, just don't say that you "are a Christian Monotheist" when you clearly are not.

I believe in one God and adhere to the Westminster confession of Faith, i am i Monotheist, as has been made clear you are not aware of the intricacies that the terms involve or you wold would not jump to the conclusion that i'm not a monotheist. I'm not saying it's straight forward there is a lot of reading to be done on this to understand it in the context.  These thing take a lot of study which you havn't done obviously, I havn't spent years learning Hebrew and doing OT theology for nothing so when someone claims to know what i think and how i think it becomes irksome.

As I said above, I understand that the ancient Hebrews were not Monotheists. You can play move the goalpost all day long by redefining the word "god", but that does not change the simple fact that if you believe in more than one, regardless of rank, you are by definition not a Monotheist. More to Zankuu's original point and since you do not deny the "existence" of other gods does this mean that you believe Odin, Thor, Zues, Ra, etc. to be real entities? Are they part of the Elohim? Are they El's henchmen?

Not moving any goalpost what does the term Elohim mean to you and i'll tell you what it means to me... fair enough ? Ancient Israelites can be considered monotheist's just  because there are other gods by name does not mean they are gods like Yahweh, this will become clear when you explain to me what the noun god means to you. I'll explain the other gods but first we have to know what a god is

Hence the name. Still waiting on examples from your OP.

They have been given.

[L-Chaim]

...deleted double post

[kin hell]

either offer evidence to show how an atheist can be angry with god and still be an atheist,
or show how for the most part this forum is made up of tirades against god,
or retract your disingenuous OP

or I'm reporting you for dodging 

Hence the name. Still waiting on examples from your OP.

They have been given.

You lie, and I have reported you.

[L-Chaim]

You need to get a life dude, i gave the explanation for my view if it's not up to your standard then so be it.

And your asking me to prove why are angry can you see the irony here ?

[One Above All]

You lie, and I have reported you.

I said earlier that he had quoted Nick's post, but after actually reading it myself, his (Nick's) sarcasm is painfully clear. L-Chaim is just doing what he said he would: Choosing which parts of the posts to pay attention to

[kin hell]

You need to get a life dude, i gave the explanation for my view if it's not up to your standard then so be it.

And your asking me to prove why are angry can you see the irony here ?

.......are you going to retract your inaccurate OP?

........you misread my contempt as anger.

Christians don't only cherry pick WHAT they believe in the bible, they also cherry pick WHEN they believe it.

Thats a generalization of a millions of people, you are right to say some Christians do this, but not Christians in general. Sorry to be pedantic.

There is a log you know.


So are you going to retract the unsubstantiated claims made in your OP or are you going to continue to generalise and push the indefensible out of pride?


Inspiring stuff.

[bertatberts]

Because it has been repeated throughout this thread that atheists are no more angry at your god than we are at Darth Vader, yet you insist that what you think we think is right and what we know we think is wrong. Put simply, your arrogance is pissing me off

Listen there are angry comment directed at God in this post alone so it's NOT my imagination and i only repeated it because i was specifically asked to !

1st page poster called nick.

" All they want is power, control, and money.  And the control part is over all of us not just their flock.  So yes, f*ck your God."

Yes maybe nick did, but that is in the thread, not Blaziken_rjcf post.
So again Where!!!!!!!
Please point out exactly where!
Thank you.
I can see it. It is most definitely your imagination.

[Nick]

Man, I did not expect to get all this attention with my 4 letter word for God.  The "L" boy wanted to know why we were mad at God so I thought I would show him a mad response.  I know I'm going to hell for that one but I think it was worth it.lol

[curiousgirl]

Anyway, L-Chaim, I know you're busy talking to others, but I would love for you to respond to my 2 posts that concerned the arguments that you put forward.

[Anfauglir]

I'm new here but for the most part all i have seen is angry tirades directed towards God. My question is this...If God does not exist then why get angry about it ?

Or do you know He exists and you just dont like Him ?

Hello L-Chaim.

I think perhaps you have deeply misunderstood a lot of the posts you have read.  When debating with a Christian, we presume that they will first understand that we don't believe in god.  However, it would become very dull having to type that in every time - as well as obscuring what we are trying to say.  For example.....

Lengthy version - removes any possibility that we are angry at god....
Christian: "but my god is always good!"
Atheist: "So for example when it says in your book that we don't believe is true that the god we don't believe in drowned all the evil people, I believe that would be a terrible thing to do if I believed god existed but I don't believe he does."

Short version - where the unbelief is assumed - but where the casual reader could infer an actual hatred of god.
Christian: "but my god is always good!"
Atheist: "But he drowned everyone - that was a terrible thing to do"

The latter version is the one you will normally see on this site - much, much faster to type, and easier to understand.....except, of course, for the "newbie" who reads the shorts form and assumes that we do, in fact, really believe in, and therefore hate, their god.

Hope that all made sense, and explains your misconceptions.

[Bad Pear]

Not moving any goalpost what does the term Elohim mean to you and i'll tell you what it means to me... fair enough ? Ancient Israelites can be considered monotheist's just  because there are other gods by name does not mean they are gods like Yahweh, this will become clear when you explain to me what the noun god means to you. I'll explain the other gods but first we have to know what a god is

I do not believe in god. Since you are the one who does it would be up to you to define what your particular SPAG is defined as. As I said before if one admits belief in more than one god then one is not a Monotheist by definition. Period. End of story. You can redefine the term for yourself all you wish, but that does not change the fact. Also, as I said before, you would do well to remember that many of us here are well aware of what various Christian theologies teach and the misinformation that they spread about the history of their own faith. I hate to be the one to break the news to you but just because you do not concur with the definition of the word Monotheist does not mean that I am either incorrect or ignorant of the term or it's context. I can guarantee you that the Ancient Israelites did not consider themselves to be Monotheists at the time. The concept of Monotheism is most likely something that evolved from their Monolatrism^Wiki over time and has since been retroactively applied to them by modern theologians.

[kin hell]

Oh to be L-Ch

shakey orbiting gall-stone poses as gaseous giant

and a little man in the moon ...heads up! and very rosy cheeks
.....and yes, (an aside) that contortion is possible if you practice on enough lies

so Lun (a tick, or some other like burrowing parasite)
demanding telescopes witness his entry as it disturbs the atmosphere

accompanied by green (cut the) cheesy intentional inaccuracies ( little bubbles of rank stench and disingenuous out-pour)
falls upon his sword words

Out to L-un-Ch
suddenly regrets the passing wind burn of the no-escape trajectory  (the lies were out before more careful edit)

and must hope in desperate hope that atheists are not star gazers (nor fish of any sort) to witness
such an incandescence of humiliation for and before god and all its heavens

Rockets red glare is a kind euphemism for a proud little man in the moon
who knows that re-entry of the head is made just the slightest bit more possible (but no more comfortable) the pointier the skull.

Surely a retraction must be easier than that?

belch     

better out than in   

and you'll feel better for it