Author Topic: Why so Angry  (Read 3041 times)

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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2011, 06:32:14 AM »
People are angry because they might not like how someone can create us just like humanity may not want there to be other life on other planets. Humanity feels 'special' and wants to be the only species that exists in the universe. They might be jealous that a 'God' made another species so they could be angry at God for that. Some are not angry at God, just the religious people who believe in any God. If a God did exist, they would be imbeciles, just like the people who are pro humans (unless they have good reasons for that). Most (or all) religions want power, money and control, but that does not mean their 'God' wants that. Maybe it is their imaginary God that they made up to help them gain what they want. Being angry at fictional characters is a waste of time, if people are to be angry at someone or something, it should at least be real.
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Offline Emily

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2011, 06:43:14 AM »
So you believe is compartmentalizing life into categories and religion is to be kept in the private area of a persons life and is never to be brought into the public ?

No. What I believe is that the majority of the Christians in America are trying to force their beliefs into my life. I don't care what a person believes. That person can express their belief openly all they want to; but the moment they try to force their belief into politics and education, that's where the line gets drawn because what many christians don't understand is that America is not a christian nation, and many christians like to claim it is.

Someone can practice whatever they want to. And that same someone can hand out tracts at the airport. I don't care. It's their right to do so. But the christian religion has a big influence on our politics, from creationism being taught in schools, to banning gay marriage, to pray in public schools to upholding don't ask, don't tell, etc.

People can express their beliefs all they want too. I don't care. What I DO care about is if they try to force their belief on those who don't share their belief (like creationism taught in schools, pray in public schools, etc)
 
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You know God is real or you wouldn't be angry about Him.

Yeah, that's it.  :-\ you claim me as making a non-sequiter when in the same post you do the same.

 
Quote
As for Christian marketing, i think for a bunch of uncoth fisherman  thousands of years ago they done a pretty good job of getting the message out to the world ? no


Thousands of years ago yes. Today, no. As a whole we are a much smarter than we were thousands of years ago. We understand our place in the universe better. We understand that there is a "driving force" behind our exsitance that isn't the cause of some deity in the sky, like those unclothed fisherman claimed.

I don't care about god's home boys thousands of years ago. Today god's PR team is so full of contradictions I don't know which marketing firm to listen too.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 06:46:48 AM by Emily »
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2011, 07:05:32 AM »
People are angry because they might not like how someone can create us just like humanity may not want there to be other life on other planets. Humanity feels 'special' and wants to be the only species that exists in the universe.

I have seen no evidence of this.  Most human beings don't seem to care about the subject all that much, but of the ones I've seen who do, they're all very intrigued about the possibility of life existing elsewhere in the universe and would be absolutely thrilled if we ever discover any.
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Offline Samuelxcs

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2011, 07:12:36 AM »

I have seen no evidence of this.  Most human beings don't seem to care about the subject all that much, but of the ones I've seen who do, they're all very intrigued about the possibility of life existing elsewhere in the universe and would be absolutely thrilled if we ever discover any.

That would be a great thing if more people were exited about other life in the universe, it is better that we are not alone here. I have seen evidence of people not liking the idea of other life in the universe but that might just be a few people near where I live. Not caring about the subject is fine. It wouldn't be surprising if there were other life on other planets, we could not be the only ones who are lucky enough to exist. Maybe other species exist in the same way as we do.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2011, 07:23:57 AM »
L-Chaim,

You have received some great answers to your original question.  So what will you do with this information?  Can you share your opinions on what you think about the answers, without judging or debating them?  If you had to talk to Christians about what you are hearing here, what would you tell them?


Offline screwtape

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2011, 07:59:10 AM »
L-Chaim

Welcome to our forum. 

Since you are new, let me explain that the green text I use is to indicate I am taking on my role as moderator and not a participant in the discussion.

I noticed you are having some struggles with the quoting function.  We have a FAQ and a tutorial here.  There is also a posting guide there you may find useful.  You should practice your quoting skills in the Test Area

good luck,
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Offline L-Chaim

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2011, 08:11:40 AM »
L-Chaim,

You have received some great answers to your original question.  So what will you do with this information?  Can you share your opinions on what you think about the answers, without judging or debating them?  If you had to talk to Christians about what you are hearing here, what would you tell them?

For the most part the answers have been reasonable, there is a however a lack of friendliness though which is palpable, there is one post in particular which was highly offensive to me, but overall so far so good.  ;D

Offline Brakeman

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2011, 08:17:45 AM »
I am not angry at god any more that I could be angry at Spongebob Squarepants, or Popeye the sailor man. I'm only angry at dolts that espouse superstition and the cons that they use to dupe people.
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Offline jetson

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2011, 08:22:28 AM »

For the most part the answers have been reasonable, there is a however a lack of friendliness though which is palpable, there is one post in particular which was highly offensive to me, but overall so far so good.  ;D

Yes, there are some members who do not start off being polite.  I think most of them provided reasons though, so I wanted to see if you could discuss those reasons.  What usually happens, is the theist gets offended, and goes on the defensive (understandable in some cases).  What I am interested in, is finding theists who can understand these reasons,  accept them, and perhaps even support them.  And what could be done about it from a theists perspective?


Offline L-Chaim

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2011, 08:28:16 AM »

 like those unclothed fisherman claimed.


Yikes they were uncoth not unclothed lol

Offline L-Chaim

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2011, 08:36:27 AM »

Yes, there are some members who do not start off being polite.  I think most of them provided reasons though, so I wanted to see if you could discuss those reasons.  What usually happens, is the theist gets offended, and goes on the defensive (understandable in some cases).  What I am interested in, is finding theists who can understand these reasons,  accept them, and perhaps even support them.  And what could be done about it from a theists perspective?

I dont know wich point to address if you want to put forth something in particular to discuss i  would be happy to discuss it with you.

I dont see the rationale behind being angry at a being who you presume not to exist, the more coherent answers say they are not angry at God as He doesn't exist in their mind, but there have been some angry responses wich are the ones i dont understand, why be angry about something that doesnt exist.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2011, 08:42:32 AM »
I dont see the rationale behind being angry at a being who you presume not to exist, the more coherent answers say they are not angry at God as He doesn't exist in their mind, but there have been some angry responses wich are the ones i dont understand, why be angry about something that doesnt exist.

For the umpteenth time, we're not angry at your god. Some are angry at you (believers) but definitely not your god
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2011, 08:43:59 AM »
One who is angry at any god is, by definition, not an atheist. One cannot be angry at something one does not believe in

Yes, but one who is angry at god can by all means masquerade as an atheist, especially on the interwebz.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2011, 08:45:00 AM »
One who is angry at any god is, by definition, not an atheist. One cannot be angry at something one does not believe in

Yes, but one who is angry at god can by all means masquerade as an atheist, especially on the interwebz.

And if they say "I'm angry at god" or something equivalent, others will point out that he/she is not an atheist
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline L-Chaim

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2011, 08:49:11 AM »
I dont see the rationale behind being angry at a being who you presume not to exist, the more coherent answers say they are not angry at God as He doesn't exist in their mind, but there have been some angry responses wich are the ones i dont understand, why be angry about something that doesnt exist.

For the umpteenth time, we're not angry at your god. Some are angry at you (believers) but definitely not your god

I was asked to comment and assess ?  why are you angry at me ?

Offline jetson

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2011, 08:53:51 AM »
L-Chaim,

So, the points being brought up are not that we are angry at a non existent god, rather, we are angry at those who believe they are speaking for God, when they push their morals and beliefs upon everyone else.  I would not argue that all Christians are like this, but there are enough of them, in places of a serious level of power, to do serious damage to our human rights in this free country we like to call the U.S.

This is the basic problem.  Most atheists that I know would be fine with all forms of theism, as long as it does not become a requirement.  And even though Christians don't require everyone to be a believer, they can make this world an actual living Hell for anyone who does not believe.

I want all believers to STFU in public policy, government, education, etc.  That belongs in their respective churches.  Considering that the vast majority of humans do not believe Jesus is actually God, it is unfortunate when many of these Christians continue to insist that the U.S. is a Christian nation, and that we should thank God, and even pray to their God to solve problems (Rick Perry).  I don't want this crap pushed on me, nor on anyone else who could care less about ancient mythology.


Offline curiousgirl

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2011, 09:03:58 AM »
L-Chaim, I'm not angry at a God who does not exist. I'm also not angry at you. I don't even know you. I am however, wondering this: what logical argument(s) have brought you to the conclusion that Bible God exists? Surely you understand that if you make the positive claim that God exists, you have the burden of proof here.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline L-Chaim

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2011, 09:06:31 AM »
L-Chaim,


I want all believers to STFU in public policy, government, education, etc.  That belongs in their respective churches.  Considering that the vast majority of humans do not believe Jesus is actually God, it is unfortunate when many of these Christians continue to insist that the U.S. is a Christian nation, and that we should thank God, and even pray to their God to solve problems (Rick Perry).  I don't want this crap pushed on me, nor on anyone else who could care less about ancient mythology.

Look morals cannot be forced on anyone and it's been proven time and time again that it simply does not work. To demand that Christians or any one or faith (as this is a freedom issue at root) has to keep his life in segregated areas of private and public domains is a oppresion of freedom, I cannot comment too much on  US polotics as i'm in the UK but if you dont like the guy who's Christian then vote for the other guy, it's the highest form of arrogance to demand that a person change who they are to fit your world view.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2011, 09:09:24 AM »
I was asked to comment and assess ?  why are you angry at me ?

Because it has been repeated throughout this thread that atheists are no more angry at your god than we are at Darth Vader, yet you insist that what you think we think is right and what we know we think is wrong. Put simply, your arrogance is pissing me off
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Historicity

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2011, 09:10:05 AM »
In Edith Hamilton as a high-schooler I read about how Zeus was so admiring of a particularly handsome boy named Ganymede that in His form as a giant eagle He swooped down and caught the boy up and took him to be an immortal on Mt. Olympus where he is Zeus' cup bearer.

As an adult I found that from early preclassical contacts with the Greeks that the Romans coined the word catamitus (catamite, gay prostitute) from the Greek Ganymedos.

From an anti-slavery essay by Seneca I learned that a sophisticated Roman would have a pretty young male slave whose only public duty was to oh-so elegantly pour wine into his owner's cup at dinners and parties.  Seneca without getting clinical explains the cup-bearer's only other duty was as sex object in his owner's bed.

So while Apollo was a hetero rapist (a term one Greek playwright openly called Him) Zeus swung both ways and occasionally did Ganymede.  No wonder Hera was the Cosmic Nagging Wife.

Are you angry?  Am I angry?  Sort of.  Zeus/Jupiter is a fictional character and it seems from Seneca that the behavior of the fictional King of Heaven encouraged Roman slave owners to yet another mean form of mistreatment of the helpless.  But that's way in the past.

Am I angry with God?  Mostly in His Allah form because the Sufis (like Dr. Mehmet Oz on TV) do not predominate and there are lots of hate-filled Moslems currently hating and killing.

Christians' and Jews' hating and killing and stupidity about faith healing is largely in the past and only crops up in a scattered way here and there such as occasionally murdering a child to exorcise a demon.  Its largest negative manifestation is its anti-science agenda[1]

Could Christianity/Judaism turn genocidal again?  Yep-a-root-ee.  Sure could.  Christians and Jews who affirm peace and love on one hand when faced with the atrocities in the Old Testament do not condemn them but rationalize the atrocities as good.  Then they say it's in the past.  But if something was good in the past because of circumstances and none of them can outright reject it, then it can always be revived in the future unless people completely reject the foundation of the atrocities.

Below that there is a growing underground of nasy fascists who call for "dominion" and "Christian reconstruction".  They have aimed at the highest levels of government and at the military.  They have a huge presence in the nuclear armed Air Force.  The nuclear balance of terror, Mutually Assured Destruction, is not credible unless the men who will shoot the missiles in a counter strike absolutely believe in Better Dead Than Red since the Commie strike will kill 40% the world and our retaliation will be to kill another 40%.  The USAF has recently been selecting fundamentalists and using lectures based on the Old Testament genocides to condition these men.  So a lot of our nuclear weapons are controlled by men who place God above country and whose God is a God of War.  I wonder if they'd someday obey an evangelical preacher rather than the president.  I mean, isn't it high time that we nuke Mecca, brethren?

 1. That's a guess more than a well studied judgement.  I will feel no affront if other chime in with a different ranking of modern Christianity's negatives
« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 09:20:06 AM by Historicity »

Offline L-Chaim

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2011, 09:14:06 AM »
L-Chaim, I'm not angry at a God who does not exist. I'm also not angry at you. I don't even know you. I am however, wondering this: what logical argument(s) have brought you to the conclusion that Bible God exists? Surely you understand that if you make the positive claim that God exists, you have the burden of proof here.

Because he Bible tells me so...just kidding !

1 cosmological argument that nothing comes from nothing, and we know there is a beggining according to big bang cosmology.

2 teleological argument fine tunning.

3 moral argument, there is no grounding for good and no evil if God does not exist, moral absolutes exist. It never ok to torture children ?

4 the argument from information, DNA is information and information of this caliber has to come from an intelligent mind.

basically the arguments Bill Craig has put forth make sense to me, but for me it was personal experience but that wont interest you so i wont bore you. But bear in mind personal experience does play a big part in what you believe also.

Offline L-Chaim

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2011, 09:16:31 AM »
I was asked to comment and assess ?  why are you angry at me ?

Because it has been repeated throughout this thread that atheists are no more angry at your god than we are at Darth Vader, yet you insist that what you think we think is right and what we know we think is wrong. Put simply, your arrogance is pissing me off

Listen there are angry comment directed at God in this post alone so it's NOT my imagination and i only repeated it because i was specifically asked to !

You are starting to lose your place as my favorite lol

Offline One Above All

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2011, 09:20:53 AM »
1 cosmological argument that nothing comes from nothing, and we know there is a beggining according to big bang cosmology.

Then where did your god come from?

2 teleological argument fine tunning.

To claim "fine tuning" we must have something to compare it to that's not "finely tuned"

3 moral argument, there is no grounding for good and no evil if God does not exist, moral absolutes exist. It never ok to torture children ?

Since millions are good without belief in your god, how exactly can you claim this?
And yes, saying that we're just unwilling puppets for your god is incredibly insulting

4 the argument from information, DNA is information and information of this caliber has to come from an intelligent mind.

DNA is a molecule. It is not information
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline One Above All

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2011, 09:22:18 AM »
Listen there are angry comment directed at God in this post alone so it's NOT my imagination and i only repeated it because i was specifically asked to !

It kinda is your imagination. If you wish to prove it's not, please quote posts where people say they're angry at your god

You are starting to lose your place as my favorite lol

I couldn't care less
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline kin hell

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2011, 09:27:19 AM »
L-chaim what is the problem?


..............can you not comprehend that if you are angry at a god, then by definition you are not an atheist?

It's that bloody simple.

The obverse is just as simple ................as everyone has been trying to get you to see.

If you are an atheist, you don't believe in any god with which to get personally angry at.


Of course if you were to ask me

"Do idiot (intellectually lazy or dishonest) theists annoy me?"

Then I'd have to honestly answer "too bloody right sport!"



And stop whimpering with your crybaby "why are you angry at me?" 

There is a vast difference between angry and irritated.
To be angry at you we'd have to find you worthy of the emotional investment, and so far you are not even close.

What have you actually offered here?

As far as I can see, just a passively aggressive OP and other than that only obtuseness (deliberate or not I am fast losing care) and a mewling sense that you may be yet another victimised theist suffering at the hands of the "angry atheists".

Can you even imagine the irritation your less than unique approach causes here for some of us less tolerant toward The Man From Stupid.

Bull-ant under the eyelid ain't in it bloke.




Now say something interesting or just bugger off.









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all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Bad Pear

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2011, 09:28:58 AM »
For the most part the answers have been reasonable, there is a however a lack of friendliness though which is palpable, there is one post in particular which was highly offensive to me, but overall so far so good.  ;D

Which post was offensive to you? Would you find it offensive if I were to say that you are a delusional person who seeks solace in an imaginary friend to calm your fear of death and sate your need for control? Can you not appreciate that you are just as offensive to us (atheists) when you continually, and fallaciously, assert that we are "angry at god"? You are under the misguided notion that our disbelief comes from an attitude of anger and rebellion rather than merely being the end result of rational thought. Furthermore you continue to be obtuse when others attempt to explain this fact to you.

I was asked to comment and assess ?  why are you angry at me ?
Blaziken is not angry at you personally. He said "you (believers)" meaning theists in general.
Scratch that, your arrogance has pushed him over the edge. I sympathize with him.

Oh, and I can't believe we all missed this little gem.

I'm a Christian Monothiest but i do not deny that there are other gods.

You should read this sentence again, then refer to a dictionary and get back to us.

Did I miss something or has L-Chaim not offered any specific examples of the so-called "anger against god" that he claims is rampant on this site. I have no doubt that he can pull some examples, but I think he should be required to do so if he is going to continue to spout obtuse generalizations.  No doubt he will view any critique against his brand of theism as "anger towards god". If I overlooked it I apologize in advance.
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Offline curiousgirl

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2011, 09:32:26 AM »
Because he Bible tells me so...just kidding !

I'm glad you're joking. That would have been circular reasoning if you were serious.

1 cosmological argument that nothing comes from nothing, and we know there is a beggining according to big bang cosmology.

Actually, the universe could have come from nothing:

http://www.astrosociety.org/pubs/mercury/31_02/nothing.html

Quote
Quantum theory, and specifically Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, provide a natural explanation for how that energy may have come out of nothing.

2 teleological argument fine tunning.

I'm sorry, but this is rather vague.

3 moral argument, there is no grounding for good and no evil if God does not exist, moral absolutes exist. It never ok to torture children ?

Good and evil is what we make of it. After all, your laws from your God come from the Bible, which was written by men, not divinely inspired, because no one has proven God's existence. Also, unfortunately for you, the God of the Bible is evil. He killed all Egyptian firstborn children because the Pharoah disobeyed him. He said that some women should marry their rapists. He almost had Abraham kill his child, Isaac, then practically went "Psych!". He killed David and Bathsheba's baby for their adultery. He killed his son on the cross when he could have just prevented Adam and Eve from eating the apple, or killed the devil to begin with, etc. And on and on.

I think you need to read your Bible more until you realize that God is not actually loving. He is rather temperamental.


4 the argument from information, DNA is information and information of this caliber has to come from an intelligent mind.

To borrow from what another member said recently, DNA is biological chemistry. We think of it as information, just like we think of atoms as round. It's just to help us understand the concept of it.

But bear in mind personal experience does play a big part in what you believe also.

I know, because I was a believer before. I figured out the problem with personal experience: it is highly subjective. Without reason and evidence, how can you tell if your beliefs aren't delusional nonsense?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan

Offline Historicity

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2011, 09:35:05 AM »
but for me it was personal experience but that wont interest you so i wont bore you. But bear in mind personal experience does play a big part in what you believe also.
I'm familiar with William Lane Craig's arguments.  And Plantinga's.  And Holding's.  And Comfort's.  I'd rather get them from primary source than paraphrase.

Your personal experience is all that would interest me.

Offline L-Chaim

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Re: Why so Angry
« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2011, 09:43:03 AM »

Which post was offensive to you? Would you find it offensive if I were to say that you are a delusional person who seeks solace in an imaginary friend to calm your fear of death and sate your need for control? Can you not appreciate that you are just as offensive to us (atheists) when you continually, and fallaciously, assert that we are "angry at god"? You are under the misguided notion that our disbelief comes from an attitude of anger and rebellion rather than merely being the end result of rational thought. Furthermore you continue to be obtuse when others attempt to explain this fact to you.

Whatever dude,  get over yourself.


Scratch that, your arrogance has pushed him over the edge. I sympathize with him.

Fair enough the "why are yo angry at me" comment was sacrasim which is obviously lost in here.


Oh, and I can't believe we all missed this little gem.

You should read this sentence again, then refer to a dictionary and get back to us.


You obviously dont understand the complexity of Monotheisim in the ANE context if you want to learn i'll email you a paper on it. But i do not have to refere to a dictionary, just because the definition doesn't fit squarely with your preconception of what the word actually means does not mean i wrong, your uninformed but i understand as your not interested in this area.