Dogs DO NOT Go To Heaven

[IAmFirst]

I'm sure you've all seen crap like this before. This is why I call teaching kids religion the most popular form of child abuse. Read below. It's an "Our doggie died today, yadda yadda, let's send a letter to god, yadda yadda. And god WROTE US BACK!"  A little long-- long enough to piss you off:

Dear God,
Will you please take care of my dog? She died yesterday and is with you in heaven. I miss her very much. I am happy that you let me have her as my dog even though she got sick.
I hope you will play with her. She likes to swim and play with balls. I am sending a picture of her so when you see her you will know that she is my dog. I really miss her.
Love, Meredith

We put the letter in an envelope with a picture of Abbey and Meredith and addressed it to God/Heaven. We put our return address on it. Then Meredith pasted several stamps on the front of the envelope because she said it would take lots of stamps to get the letter all the way to heaven. That afternoon she dropped it into the letter box at the post office. A few days later, she asked if God had gotten the letter yet. I told her that I thought He had.
Yesterday, there was a package wrapped in gold paper on our front porch addressed, 'To Meredith' in an unfamiliar hand. Meredith opened it. Inside was a book by Mr. Rogers called, 'When a Pet Dies.' Taped to the inside front cover was the letter we had written to God in its opened envelope. On the opposite page was the picture of Abbey & Meredith and this note:
Dear Meredith,
Abbey arrived safely in heaven. Having the picture was a big help and I recognized her right away.
Abbey isn't sick anymore. Her spirit is here with me just like it stays in your heart. Abbey loved being your dog. Since we don't need our bodies in heaven, I don't have any pockets to keep your picture in so I am sending it back to you in this little book for you to keep and have something to remember Abbey by.
Thank you for the beautiful letter and thank your mother for helping you write it and sending it to me. What a wonderful mother you have. I picked her especially for you. I send my blessings every day and remember that I love you very much. By the way, I'm easy to find. I am wherever there is love.

Love, God"

My fake letter from god would be funnier. Notice the girl wrote "She likes to play with balls"?? My response would be this:

"Dear Sinner: Your devil dog DOES like to play with balls. She went straight for my supreme nuts as soon as she got here! I am slowly roasting her for my eating pleasure much later. So far she has roasted for 20 centuries in earth time and her moans are constant and very pleasing to me! For presenting this ignorant creature of stupidity to me, I promise to cast you, your parents, all of your relatives into hell for all eternity! I shall also cast the following into hell because of your insolent behavior: All of your neighbors, friends, their families, your teachers and their families and anyone who owns a dog that resembles this one!

How dare you think a beast be fitting to live with me! You have not read my holy words! You were supposed to sacrifice your beast by the throat, sprinkle the blood on the altar! You were to peel the beast's skin, cut it into pieces and arrange them accordingly on the altar, INCLUDING the head and fat on the burning wood of the altar! Your male priests were then to burn all parts of the animal!

This is a PLEASING smell to me and you mocked ME??? Haven't you read Leviticus 1-10?? Why are these words not memorized? These are your sins, and the sins of your parents, your brothers, your sisters, you grandparents and their grandparents and shall be thrown into the lake of fire as deserved!

So sayeth ME, your supreme one!

--- Yahweh"

[Brakeman]

PS:  What he said!
 -Your loving Jesus

[Poseidon]

IAm First, why would you be deliberately cruel to a grief stricken little girl?  Are you trying to prove what the xtians claim; that atheists have neither morals nor compassion for others? 

The postal worker who delivered the book and the reply was a kind and sensitive individual who sought to diminish some of the little girls pain. He or she might have been a christian, even a fundie, but what they did was generous act of kindness.  I hate the absurd mythology about heaven and all the rest of that hogwash.  I think it child abuse to fill their heads with religious beliefs.   Nonetheless I would have been very tempted to write a consoling letter to the child.

[L-Chaim]

 Yeah make up a letter and rip it to shreds and attack God as the protagonist....What absolute nonesense talk about about a straw man. Seriously guys ?

[IAmFirst]

No, I would NEVER write that to the girl, but it angers me enough to think about it, so I posted it here.  And maybe to discuss it.

Thing is, people CAN NOT tell her crap like that, period. Every ant she steps on, she's forgiven, every spider, every lightning bug she puts on the ground so she can scrape the glowy part all over the sidewalk, she's forgiven and cats and dogs love each other and la la la la la.... 

Maybe we should discuss when it may be okay to level with death to kids. I doubt a pet is any easier to lose than a human at a young age, or even an older age too.

First problem starts where? Same place. Home. A mother/relative tells a kid "let's write to god!" If the kid doesn't know already, they'll learn the mythology quickly. Then they receive the confirmation letter and WHAMMO! PROOF that my dead dog lives in happiness. In realistic, and especially biblical standpoints, already puts ignorance before the text of their religion.

The kid didn't read it, probably not the mom/relative either, so they make it up and it's all for good? I do not see this. Even for an 8 year old.

Why can't we level with death? Or, rather, WHEN can we level with it to the young ones? One important thing to realize is that our memories and our thoughts and conversations about whoever passed is really what keeps them alive. Physically, they are not, and we don't have any evidence that they live spiritually or even in the happiest dog pound run my Pluto and Goofy on planet Mars.

I'm not saying we should take them to watch autopsies or embalming methods, but why jump to the spirit world? When everybody shares good stories about the deceased, that's what's most important to pass this rough time. I'm sure neighbors have plenty of cute stories about Abbey, except that old fart that sells the hot dogs on a wagon near the bus stop.

Frankly, overall, I'm mostly disgusted how religion has the chokehold on those who are suffering. Little girl loses her best furry friend, (sniff  ), and the fruitcakes decide to LIE to make things BETTER.

Abbey looked like a sweet dog, so it's not time to hurt feelings with TRUTH, but logic leaps tend to stay with us as kids.

[Zankuu]

Yeah make up a letter and rip it to shreds and attack God as the protagonist....What absolute nonesense talk about about a straw man. Seriously guys ?

L-Chaim, I'm pretty sure IAm was joking; he's kind of a light hearted fellow. Secondly, that letter has been on the net since '06 or so. The dog's original name was "Abbey" if I'm not mistaken. And as far as nonsense goes.. yeah it's bullshit. I think it's unhealthy to indoctrinate a child, and especially bullshit to aid to it as an outside source with no real long term investment in the matter.

"I know," said the postal worker, "I'll help the kid feel some short term comfort, aid in his or her Christian indoctrination, and help him or her avoid learning about the inevitability of death which may or may not cause internal struggles with the cold, hard reality they'll face later in life."

Yeah, that's the ticket.

[IAmFirst]

L-Chaim, I'm pretty sure IAm was joking; he's kind of a light hearted fellow. Secondly, that letter has been on the net since '06 or so. The dog's original name was "Abbey" if I'm not mistaken. And as far as nonsense goes.. yeah it's bullshit. I think it's unhealthy to indoctrinate a child, and especially bullshit to aid to it as an outside source with no real long term investment in the matter.

"I know," said the postal worker, "I'll help the kid feel some short term comfort, aid in his or her Christian indoctrination, and help him or her avoid learning about the inevitability of death which may or may not cause internal struggles with the cold, hard reality they'll face later in life."

Yeah, that's the ticket.

KIND OF a light hearted--?? Why, I'll--!!

Yes, I hope I'm light-hearted but I'm sure I don't appear as such all the time. Thank you, Zankuu, you summed it up better than I did.

Eventually, if this young person is interested in knowledge and is religious, most likely the many pages of sacrificing animals are in the bible shall surface as soon as the sun. I pointed to Leviticus 1-10, and to Noah getting off the ark, and I'm sure others on this board know more. This is where logic comes a-knockin'. Questions are begging, like, "Why didn't my friends get a letter from god like I did?" Later when they're older, "We embalm, but my Jewish friends do not. What's happens to the body?" And so on.

Hey, maybe if the respect for religion remain along with a BA and a mortuary license, the confused and deluded kid could make a mint when she/he is older, yet still confused.

[L-Chaim]

Yeah make up a letter and rip it to shreds and attack God as the protagonist....What absolute nonesense talk about about a straw man. Seriously guys ?

L-Chaim, I'm pretty sure IAm was joking; he's kind of a light hearted fellow. Secondly, that letter has been on the net since '06 or so. The dog's original name was "Abbey" if I'm not mistaken. And as far as nonsense goes.. yeah it's bullshit. I think it's unhealthy to indoctrinate a child, and especially bullshit to aid to it as an outside source with no real long term investment in the matter.

"I know," said the postal worker, "I'll help the kid feel some short term comfort, aid in his or her Christian indoctrination, and help him or her avoid learning about the inevitability of death which may or may not cause internal struggles with the cold, hard reality they'll face later in life."

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Ok but it is still a straw man is it not ? It a caricature that easy to attack, the point of the story i agree with you guys that indoctrination is not the way to go but what is indoctrination and who gets to define what is allowed to be taught to a child and whats not ? If a believing parent teaches the child not the steal,lie,be selfish ect and these things come from the book of proverbs is that indoctrination ? it bring up all kinds of parental freedom issues which i assume you would want to protect ?

Is it possible that forms of indoctrination happen all the time not just with religions ? It can even happen with sports teams, i have heard of families in turmoil just because the child has chosen to support a different football team from the father, and actual fist fights break out as a result..... madness. Should sports be banned because of this ?

Are there bad Christian parents out there ? i have no doubt at all that there is.

Perhaps the point of the post was not to go into these types of issues but the become apparent when you scratch the surface.

[Zankuu]

Ok but it is still a straw man is it not ?

Strawmen only exist where arguments are being made.

If a believing parent teaches the child not the steal,lie,be selfish ect and these things come from the book of proverbs is that indoctrination ? it bring up all kinds of parental freedom issues which i assume you would want to protect ?

Lessons on not stealing, lying, or being selfish aren't moral teachings or codes restricted to the lessons in Proverbs. And since we're on the subject, check out the Instruction of Amenemope- the author(s) of Proverbs more or less plaigarized it.

And I agree with the rest of your post.

[L-Chaim]

Strawmen only exist where arguments are being made.

It sound to me like a rhetorical argument.

Lessons on not stealing, lying, or being selfish aren't moral teachings or codes restricted to the lessons in Proverbs. And since we're on the subject, check out the Instruction of Amenemope- the author(s) of Proverbs more or less plaigarized it.

ANE comparative studies have shown many overlaps in ANE religious text but this does not necessitate that they were plagerized. In many cases a Biblical author such as Isaiah will take a Divine title such as "The Cloud Rider" right out Cannanite religion and attribute it to Yahweh as a polemic. This was a common practice, so it not really an issue to denigrate scripture as it's known to have happen. It may frighten some Christians who are unaware of these issues and think God dictated the whole of the Bible and there was no human input at all in the writing of scripture, but they need to study more and do less talking. Me included !

[Samuelxcs]

I don't know why people think only humans go to Heaven, but if that is true only God lets humans into Heaven for some reason. Other animals should be allowed into Heaven as well but perhaps God is not so good after all.
Maybe it helps people to believe that their dead animals will go to a 'better place' when they die. It certainly makes them feel better.

[Brakeman]

It is a tongue-in-cheek exposition of how the "loving" "Compassionate" christians hold back dogma that doesn't fit the moment with little kids, and use condemnation to hell and a vengeful god to when they are trying to scare teenagers and adults into fearing god for later profit and servitude.

They don't preach non-virgin stonings at weddings because it would offend, yet that would be a logical time.

They don't preach against christmas trees at christmas because it would offend.

Christians don't only cherry pick WHAT they believe in the bible, they also cherry pick WHEN they believe it.

[L-Chaim]

They don't preach non-virgin stonings at weddings because it would offend, yet that would be a logical time.

Ancient Israelites knew what was expected of them when they went entered into a marriage contract, what makes you think they didn't know the consequences of breaking the law ?

They don't preach against christmas trees at christmas because it would offend.

Some do some dont Oliver Cromwell had a very strong stand against pagan customs at Christmas time.

Christians don't only cherry pick WHAT they believe in the bible, they also cherry pick WHEN they believe it.

Thats a generalization of a millions of people, you are right to say some Christians do this, but not Christians in general. Sorry to be pedantic.

[Brakeman]

L-Chaim,

The generalisms are obvious to most people here.

There is no point in pecking out irrelevant exceptions.

Are you a woo believing theist?

[nogodsforme]

Lying to kids like that can get you tangled up in knots. What if the little girl wants to join her doggie in heaven?

True story: When I was a kid we had a bad dog for a while-- we treated it nicely, but it snarled and snapped at us. Cesar would have kicked the crap out of it. One day it got hit by a bus[1]. Where did it go? Well, according to these parents, it is snarling and snapping at the nice doggies in heaven for all eternity, cause all dogs go to heaven.

1.	We did not miss it. Nasty spoiled savage beast.

[RaymondKHessel]

I kind of like this story. Reminds me of Santa-type stuff, with the parents writing the little girl back...

I like it because it stands an excellent chance of being self-defeating when this little girl grows up. She's bound to realize that she's not going to get personal letters from god every time she writes, and eventually is going to tie together the fact that Santa never writes back anymore, either.

She's going to think back on that letter from God some time when she's 14 or so and go "Wait a minute... What was that letter about?" Then she'll ask her mom about it, something like "Hey mom, remember when I was little and got a letter from GOD?", who will either lie about it badly (shameful), or cop to writing it.

Either way, when you find out your mom was covering for an absentee deity, just like daddy did for Santa, I think it might tell you something.

edit: Oh, and I laughed my ass off at the True Spirit of Yahweh response letter in the OP. Those burnt offerings... Like freaking nosegasms to the almighty creator of all the cosmos, I'm telling you. 

[velkyn]

My mom's first real questioning of Christianity was when she read an article that said pets didn't go to heaven and she was horrified (and thought Buddhism was much better...).   Poor mom, such a nice naive person.   Happily, she and my dad have pretty much stopped going to church and seem the happier for it. 

[jaimehlers]

I think people here need to remember that death of a loved one (whether it's a human or a beloved animal) is an extremely traumatic event.  It's easy to lose sight of the idea that these actions were intended to comfort someone's grief.  It may not be the way any of you would choose to do so, or myself for that matter, but at least the person who wrote the response for 'God' was acting out of a genuine intent to try to ease that girl's grief.  Wrong it may have been (and I agree, writing a letter and signing it 'God' was not a particularly sensible way to respond to this), but there are not many people who are even willing to do the wrong thing in the face of a tragedy that doesn't affect them, let alone the right thing.

I do agree that it's better to tell a child that they should make the effort to remember the good things when confronting death.  The best thing to do with a situation like this is to keep what you say simple and truthful.

[Chronos]

My mom's first real questioning of Christianity was when she read an article that said pets didn't go to heaven and she was horrified (and thought Buddhism was much better...).   Poor mom, such a nice naive person.   Happily, she and my dad have pretty much stopped going to church and seem the happier for it.

For whatever you miss in socialization by not going to church, the spirit is vastly improved by your own absence.

Maybe they should make church services like weddings -- just say that you can't make it to the ceremony but you are quite able to make it to the reception.

[Nodak]

As a veterinarian, I console alot of my clients by sending them a card with the following poem.  It helps them tremendously. I am an atheist but I cry everytime I read this poem.  call me a hypocrite but people suffer when their pet dies.

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.
They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

[ungod]

I thought dogs went to Muslim heaven....

[onesteward]

As a veterinarian, I console alot of my clients by sending them a card with the following poem.  It helps them tremendously. I am an atheist but I cry everytime I read this poem.  call me a hypocrite but people suffer when their pet dies.

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.
They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

 This kind of reminded me of what I heard a pastor say once:  "Jesus says He makes all things new which I like even better than having all new things."

[Poseidon]

Thank you Nodak. I was just about to post the Rainbow Bridge Poem along with an explanation for the readers who are not doggy types.

I have been a dog guy for a very long time, and an unyielding atheist for a long time.  My absolute best and most loyal companions have been canines of one kind or another. When I lose one of them it is devastating for me and I want very badly to believe in the Rainbow Bridge.  No one questions my manhood but when I read that poem I unashamedly cry real tears. I feel sorry for those who have never loved and been loved by a companion dog. I know the hurt that the little girl felt.

Of course there is no Rainbow bridge but it is a beautiful fantasy. Heaven must also be a beautiful fantasy for christians to believe in. The difference is that they do not know that it is a fantasy. Maybe we'd ought to cut them some slack in spite of their silly delusions.   

[dloubet]

L-Chaim wrote:

If a believing parent teaches the child not the steal,lie,be selfish ect and these things come from the book of proverbs is that indoctrination ?

I'm saying yeah, if as a result the child is left thinking that atheists don't have morals. This is a Slander by Omission that has been going on for over 2000 years. Yes, it's indoctrination. It's indoctrination designed to create a distrust of a segment of the population with lies and innuendo.

[nogodsforme]

Do atheist doggies go to heaven?

[RaymondKHessel]

To be honest, it always pissed me off when Christians would say animals don't have souls.

When I was little, I just thought it was unfair and made no sense. Looking into a loving dog's eyes; there is every bit as much of a "soul" there as there is for any human. I'm using the word "soul" pretty liberally here obviously. I mean that sparkle, you know? And it struck me as really cruel that a god would set up the universe in such a way that it would literally OBLITERATE people's beloved animals when they die, never to be seen again lol.

Then as I got older and actually started paying attention to the details of religions, it kind of dawned on me the level of insecurity required that made the bible's authors decide that only humans were super special enough to get eternal life.

You are SO concerned about being "better" than everything that's not you, from women to your kids to your slaves... You have to go a step further and say that in fact all life everywhere that isn't capable of telling you how great you are is "just" a biomechanical meatbox machine while YOU get to go to the magic kingdom and get scooby snacks forever and ever, even though the culture of the bible is infinitely more savage and "animalistic" than most of the animal kingdom, what with the mass rape and torture and genocide and whatnot...

For s**t's sake, a goddamn rabid polar bear would be more worthy of a heaven than the vile scumbags who invented it.

Of course, animals can't spend eternity praising or worshipping, so maybe that's why they never were allowed into Yahweh heaven. What? Can't kiss my ass? Can't worship me and kiss my feet? Then what do I need YOU for?

Blah. What a crock of s**t.

We just put down the family dog about 5 months ago... We had her back when I lived with my parents, and everybody in my family LOVED that dog so much. She was a pure bred black lab, and seriously, you've never met a sweeter, more gentle, loveable dog. I won't go into a lot of details, suffice it to say she was really special.

And putting her down was without a doubt one of the saddest experiences of my life. My mom insisted we stay with her and keep talking to her so she'd know she wasn't alone... I'll never forget my mom sweetly whispering "I'll see you on the other side baby girl" into her ear while the vet was giving her the hot shot. Oh Jesus, it was so, so bad man. 

I LOVE dogs, always have, but you know whenever I'd see people who just lost their pets and they were emotional basketcases, I couldn't help think "Well, that sucks, but get a GRIP." 

I was completely unprepared for how emotionally damaging it is to actually be there when something you love dies... To feel it's body go limp as the life dissapates from them. Human or not human, love is love, and that is one horrible fucking thing to experience. I'll never trivialize somebody's loss of a pet again.

You know, if there actually were different heavens, and among them a doggie heaven, I'd be really hard pressed to make up my mind which one I'd rather be at. Because honestly, I like about 90% of the dogs I meet, whereas that number drops to somewhere around 1/3rd when it comes to people. 

Of course there are no heavens for anybody, and it's probably better that way, just because I don't know if the universe could handle the stink of cat heaven. Holy balls, what a horrible place that would be. Just and endless sea of furballs and a million million ghost felines meowing, screeching, and yowling at 150 decibels while not a single one pays any attention to you... Every square inch of soil is permanently soggy with cat piss and lumpy with billions of coughed-up hairballs and every front porch has stacks of rotting birds and rats on it and OH MY GOD THEY'RE GOING INTO HEAT EVERYBODY RUUNNNN!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! 

[nogodsforme]

^^^^^I know what you mean about losing a dog and being there. I was 17 when I had to put down the best friend I had ever had. It took twenty years for me to get over it enough to get another dog. I agree with everything you say, esp. this part:
 
"You know, if there actually were different heavens, and among them a doggie heaven, I'd be really hard pressed to make up my mind which one I'd rather be at. Because honestly, I like about 90% of the dogs I meet, whereas that number drops to somewhere around 1/3rd when it comes to people."

I have even been bitten badly several times by dogs and still give them more credit than many people. One dog had rabies (a long story) and the other dogs were all little inbred yippy mf's with brains the size of garden peas who thought they needed to protect someone.[1] Not their fault. 

Only one thing. Doggie heaven would be full of three legged rodents, one-winged birds, and mountains of horrible smelling crap to roll in. Ditches of black foul-smelling water to drink and then barf up. And a wide variety of poop, bones, dead things, fast food wrappers, and rotten plant matter to sniff, peruse, critique, evaluate and snack on.[2] At least, that would be my two doggies' idea of heaven.

As always, you bring out the best in me, Ray-Ray.

Timo, I know we should get a room. Peace

1.	I love dogs, but there are some breeds that need to be tossed up and whacked over a high fence with a tennis racket. Cough chihuahuas cough.
2.	Walking my dogs is like taking a fat kid to Costco on sample day.

[RaymondKHessel]

As always, you bring out the best in me, Ray-Ray.

I swear, the abuse I take from you, woman! <shakes fist> Just you wait. One of these days I'm going to say "Enough is Enough!" and find somebody else's closet to live in.

And who's going organize your shoes THEN? HUH? Nobody, that's who!

Yeeeah that's right. You'll miss me when I'm gone. Believe that Miss Lady.

Oh who am I kidding. I'm a sucker for punishment. HIT ME, MAMA!

Hey, on an actual topical note, I hope that little bugger that used to be your avatar is still healthy and happy. He was cute as hell lol. Don't know if you're still using it and maybe something's just wrong with my display, but ever since WWGHA did that reboot way back, you've been sans profile pic. Just a little tiny red "X" where a picture should be? <shrug>

Well at any rate, yeah, I hope he/she's doing good. And of course that goes for you and the rest of the fam as well mama bear. 

[nogodsforme]

^^^My husband is out of town this week--wanna come out of the closet?

Only thing is, you'd have to walk the two dogs, deal with the mouthy teen daughter and help care for the elderly MIL-- in addition to your regular shoe classification duties. As I recall, the original agreement had you wearing a frilly French maid outfit. It is starting to look a bit shabby. And you need a back waxing.

Since the reboot I haven't been able to get my little black puppy dog to show up. I downloaded that pic from cuteoverload.com and fed it and walked it and everything. Maybe it became a Christian or Zoroastrian doggie download and split for a more hospitable website. Oh, well. Easy come, easy go.  There's more and cuter pix where that came from.