Gay "discrimination" hypocrisy

[Omega]

I have chance to listen to several gays and other people advocating idea to threat gays in sane way as straight.  But none can prove their idea logically.
Gays are clearly different from straight people, but for some reason these people demand to thereat gays in another way that we threat pedophiles pedophiles swingers other fetishists or bisexuals.
Gays are supposed to be some exceptional perverts, who are treated as normal people.

I personally have nothing against gays, but I equally support all perversions that do not harm anyone.
gays should be a bit more open minded and stop demanding exceptional pervert status or else they are same as homophobes.

[jetson]

OK.  I think?

[rickymooston]

...

I think the classification of somebody as a "pervert" is pretty subjective. Perverts do have rights tho; e.g., porn is legal.

What rights are gays demanding?

I can't think of any that are unreasonable to grant them.

I have met gays who seemed to have long lasting meaningful relationships. A friend of a friend was in a relationship with his husnad for 20 years. They are pretty normal people

Nothing wrong with some fetishes as long as one's partner enjoys it too.

Pedophiles are different, if the pedophiles practice because they are harming children.

Swingers are different if they do the swinging without the consent of their partners.

Bi-sexuals? Well, I'd suppose thier status could also depend on whether their partner knows or not and whether they do multiple people at once.

I knew a bi-sexual in a long term lesbian relationship.

[Dante]

What " exceptional pervert status" are gays demanding exactly?

[rickymooston]

What " exceptional pervert status" are gays demanding exactly?

Perhaps they are demanding better orgasms? 

I am definitely against gays having better sex than straights; that would be most unfair.

[violatedsmurf80]

They are demanding a whole lot that will change the laws of this country, for instance gay marriage, which I don’t think anything is wrong with it but this is a "Christian Country" or what about the protection of gays against discrimination and mistreatment, basically going back to when the slaves were freed and how they had to fight for their freedom. It is the same thing IMO

[Omega]

What rights are gays demanding?

Gays want to  change laws to adjust them for gay marriages and ability to demonstrate their sexuality in public while still leaving everything else as it was before.
if other perverts do not get similar upgrade to their rights then I do not see why gay rights  should be upgraded.
right for marriage is not so useless. it is same as if black people get white people rights.
once you can marry you get ability to adopt children you get security bonuses in Sweden you even get free Viagra.

Pedophiles are different, if the pedophiles practice because they are harming children.
Swingers are different if they do the swinging without the consent of their partners.

you probably confused pedophiles and swingers with molesters and rapists.

usually pedophiles just love children and do not want to harm them, I had chance to talk with some of them and they seem to be quite nice guys.
swingers like orgies where they swap their wife's or girlfriends and they do all that with consent.

Bi-sexuals? Well, I'd suppose thier status could also depend on whether their partner knows or not and whether they do multiple people at once.

how is cheating related to legality of specific sexuality? does i mean straight or gay do not cheat?

[Omega]

What " exceptional pervert status" are gays demanding exactly?

the problem is that you compare gays with straight while they are just one kind of infinite range of perversions.

They want legal pervert status, currently only legal sex is which can be used for procreation like in bible.
all other acts that are unproductive are forbidden and punishable in different ways even if they do not harm anyone.

for example here guy was arrested in his private room for masturbation with bike
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1567410/Man-who-had-sex-with-bike-in-court.html
and lots of other examples can be found.
Why gay sex should be legal while masturbation with bike is a crime ?

of course all that depends on local laws. Do we need to fight for every obscure fetish, so that when gays get their rights bike lovers should start their own pride parade ?

[Dante]

So what of heterosexual couples who engage in monogamous sex for enjoyment only, with no procreational pretense? Should they too be outlawed?

Edit: Illegal bicycle sex? LOL! That's gotta be a spoof site!

[hypagoga]

usually pedophiles just love children and do not want to harm them, I had chance to talk with some of them and they seem to be quite nice guys.

Yeah, they don't wanna hurt anyone. They just love children. Just wants the little children to enjoy his dick in their various orifices.

[Omega]

So what of heterosexual couples who engage in monogamous sex for enjoyment only, with no procreational pretense? Should they too be outlawed?

And they are outlawed.
Prostitution is forbidden in most or the world, as well as sex parties,orgies and other exclusively fun sex acts.
Punishment for these "crimes" depend on local laws but even if no legal punishment will follow you will be seen as immoral person by significant portion of society.
By the way, one US state has has law against anal or oral sex even if you do that with your wife.

I do not say it should be forbidden, but it is fact how it is.

[Omega]

usually pedophiles just love children and do not want to harm them, I had chance to talk with some of them and they seem to be quite nice guys.

Yeah, they don't wanna hurt anyone. They just love children. Just wants the little children to enjoy his dick in their various orifices.

you are talking about  molesters, not pedophiles.  and the fact what you want, is not same what you do.
In fact most pedophiles are completely limited by fantasies and do not ever touch children.
this is just attraction. it does not necessary need to be materialized in realty.

I also have some "interesting" fetishes that no way can be fulfilled in realty without severe legal problems.

[rickymooston]

you are talking about  molesters, not pedophiles.

As long as its clear that when sex occurs between adult and minor; even if that sex is concentual; its legally considered rape. 

In fact most pedophiles are completely limited by fantasies and do not ever touch children.

Thought crimes are not illegal. However, for obvious reasons, child porn for example, is illegal.

[jaimehlers]

O...kay.  *shakes head*  If I had to guess, it sounds like you're saying that unless gay people support every other kind of 'perversion' out there, that they shouldn't get any rights beyond those that straight people have (and, for that matter, straight people shouldn't have the right to have any kind of sex except if they're trying to have children).

That is, to be blunt, a pretty ridiculous way to look at granting rights.  Sorry, I'll take a more reasonable approach than this kind of extremism any day.  It might be slower, and it's anything but perfect, but you don't end up with this all-or-nothing nonsense that's never worked in the entire history of human civilization.

[rickymooston]

By the way, are you a Swede?

Gays want to  change laws to adjust them for gay marriages

This is not a big deal.     Gays already pay taxes, the same taxes everybody else pays and for the most part, legal marriage is about sharing wealth between two people, being able to access to somebody when that person is sick,

Allowing gays the status of marriage has no effect on non-gays.

In addition, separation of church and state, allows individual churches to continue to discriminate against gays (or others) to their hearts content.

and ability to demonstrate their sexuality in public while still leaving everything else as it was before.
if other perverts do not get similar upgrade to their rights then I do not see why gay rights  should be upgraded.

Gays are not allowed to have open sex in public. A wife swapper can openly declare himself a swife swapper in public. I have no issue with that.

Note: for the purposes of adoption of children, having a "stable home", might screen out swappers but hard to say.

right for marriage is not so useless. it is same as if black people get white people rights.

I'm married to a Chinese woman. Hope that gives you some idea how I feel about giving black people "white people rights".

once you can marry you get ability to adopt children you get security bonuses in Sweden you even get free Viagra.

I'm in favor of suitable gay couples being allowed to adopt children and I will give an example.

Rob and Allan, two gays I know, have been married for 20 years. Both are law abiding citizens, with good jobs, pretty stable people. They've been married for about 5 years. They lead pretty stable quite lives, don't do drugs or do anything that would indicate a reason for me to be uncomfortable. They are gentle ordinary people.

I'd have no problem with them adopting kids if they so chose.

usually pedophiles just love children and do not want to harm them, I had chance to talk with some of them and they seem to be quite nice guys.

By "love children", we mean, "desire to have sex with children". The thought crime isn't illegal.

However, we consider involving children in sexual acts rape and gay porn is also illegal. (This includes simulated child porn as far as I know.)

Its pretty obvious why an open pedophile would be denied the right to adopt children. Sadly, a closet pedophile couple might accidentally get through the screening process.

swingers like orgies where they swap their wife's or girlfriends and they do all that with consent.

They have the right to do this. I may not agree with their life style but what business is it of mine.

how is cheating related to legality of specific sexuality? does i mean straight or gay do not cheat?

Its not related to the legality. It is related to whether or not I consider the act "immoral".

Note: adultery is legal but it is not moral.

Some gays cheat as do some straights. I've never claimed they don't cheat. Whether people cheat or not, depends on the people.

[albeto]

I also have some "interesting" fetishes that no way can be fulfilled in realty without severe legal problems.

In the US, "legal problems" stem from taking one's freedom and liberty away without proper authority.  A pedophile can fantasize all they want, but as soon as they take advantage of a child who is not able to consent to sexual acts, they invite "legal problems."  The only reason homosexuality (and polygamy and other unconventional unions between consenting adults) is currently not offered legal protection is because they have been traditionally considered immoral by virtue of ancient religious laws.  For this reason homosexual marriages are being contested, as they are understood to be unions by consenting adults and not actually in violation of anyone's freedom or liberty. 

[Omega]

you are talking about  molesters, not pedophiles.

As long as its clear that when sex occurs between adult and minor; even if that sex is concentual; its legally considered rape. 

In fact most pedophiles are completely limited by fantasies and do not ever touch children.

Thought crimes are not illegal. However, for obvious reasons, child porn for example, is illegal.

That makes no sense if consensual means rape, in fact we can easily pass a law which says that consensual sex between same sex is considered rape.
and there are known cases when even sex between  minors without any involvement of adults is being punished for pedophilia.

There is no obvious reason why child porn should be illegal.
I do not see any  problem if someone want so see some movie which is made few decades ago. or if it is made in a country which has laws that allow that stuff.
otherwise you can just use that porn as evidence.
If sex with child is crime, then hiding child porn should be equal to hiding a crime. because producers must be aught and punished.

[Omega]

O...kay.  *shakes head*  If I had to guess, it sounds like you're saying that unless gay people support every other kind of 'perversion' out there, that they shouldn't get any rights beyond those that straight people have (and, for that matter, straight people shouldn't have the right to have any kind of sex except if they're trying to have children).

That is, to be blunt, a pretty ridiculous way to look at granting rights.  Sorry, I'll take a more reasonable approach than this kind of extremism any day.  It might be slower, and it's anything but perfect, but you don't end up with this all-or-nothing nonsense that's never worked in the entire history of human civilization.

I do not see any reason for that "except" thing I prefer that everything what is consensual with anyone or any thing should be legal.
getting rights one by one will not work because gays are biggest minority.
there is little chance that extremely small minorities will ever get something once gays join army of  "normal" people.

[Omega]

By the way, are you a Swede?

No, but I live close enough.

This is not a big deal.     Gays already pay taxes, the same taxes everybody else pays and for the most part, legal marriage is about sharing wealth between two people, being able to access to somebody when that person is sick,
Allowing gays the status of marriage has no effect on non-gays.

non gays also pay taxes and there is no reason why part of these taxes should go to gays.

if they just want share wealth or give right to acces each other finaces they can just sign legal contract with same results as marrying. however they should not get anything from government what costs tax payer money.

Gays are not allowed to have open sex in public. A wife swapper can openly declare himself a swife swapper in public. I have no issue with that.

I am not talking about sex in public kissing and petting each other  is enough to make many people around sick.

Note: for the purposes of adoption of children, having a "stable home", might screen out swappers but hard to say.

I think most stables house is when single person is adopting child, there is o way he-she will divorce
since single parent is quite normal in society I don't see any reason why you need to be married to adopt child.

I'm married to a Chinese woman. Hope that gives you some idea how I feel about giving black people "white people rights".

then how would you feel if you were allowed to marry Russians nut not Chinese?

I'm in favor of suitable gay couples being allowed to adopt children and I will give an example.

Rob and Allan, two gays I know, have been married for 20 years. Both are law abiding citizens, with good jobs, pretty stable people. They've been married for about 5 years. They lead pretty stable quite lives, don't do drugs or do anything that would indicate a reason for me to be uncomfortable. They are gentle ordinary people.
I'd have no problem with them adopting kids if they so chose.

I also do not have any problem with that, just that I don't see any reason why single people cant adopt children.
nobody should give right to gays to adopt children, restrictions for adopting should be removed from everyone who is capable to be  a parent.

By "love children", we mean, "desire to have sex with children". The thought crime isn't illegal.
However, we consider involving children in sexual acts rape and gay porn is also illegal. (This includes simulated child porn as far as I know.)
Its pretty obvious why an open pedophile would be denied the right to adopt children. Sadly, a closet pedophile couple might accidentally get through the screening process.

child porn is same as tough crime since it is pure data without actual person being involved.
after all if you observe murder on TV that does not make you murderer, and if sex with children is crime then observing such act is exactly same as observing murder.
of course paying for production of such movie may be illegal.

if you just simply deny right for people to see specific matrix of pixels on screen that exactly same as thought crime.

They have the right to do this. I may not agree with their life style but what business is it of mine

.
this depends on local laws of specific country. somewhere it is legal somewhere not.

how is cheating related to legality of specific sexuality? does i mean straight or gay do not cheat?

Its not related to the legality. It is related to whether or not I consider the act "immoral".
Note: adultery is legal but it is not moral.
Some gays cheat as do some straights. I've never claimed they don't cheat. Whether people cheat or not, depends on the people.

bisexuality has nothing to do with adultery or cheating. it just means that you have no sex restrictions for choosing partner.
so if straight man can only cheat with woman bisexual man can do same with man or woman.
bisexual is someone who can be gay and straight at once.

[rickymooston]

non gays also pay taxes and there is no reason why part of these taxes should go to gays.

They don't.

if they just want share wealth or give right to acces each other finaces they can just sign legal contract with same results as marrying. however they should not get anything from government what costs tax payer money.

If you count money, the pool of homosexual sexual tax paters already pays for themselves

In fact they have been subsidizing hetero marriage.

I am not talking about sex in public kissing and petting each other  is enough to make many people around sick.

Ugly people also pet and kiss in public. Lots of ugly men don;t wear there shirts.

Hell, I kind of feel uncomfortable when a really hot chick decides to kiss her boy friend in front of me.

Thing is, one can ignore it.

I think most stables house is when single person is adopting child, there is o way he-she will divorce
since single parent is quite normal in society I don't see any reason why you need to be married to adopt child.

Interesting point and I know of at least one case where in fact a single person seems to have adopted a child well.

In general, I think, raising a kid is a lot of work and you want responsible people being involved.

then how would you feel if you were allowed to marry Russians nut not Chinese?

I'd be pissed off.

I also do not have any problem with that, just that I don't see any reason why single people cant adopt children.
nobody should give right to gays to adopt children, restrictions for adopting should be removed from everyone who is capable to be  a parent.

I might agree. The thing is, some screening criterion are needed. There are definitely people who adopt children who shouldn't.

child porn is same as tough crime since it is pure data without actual person being involved.
after all if you observe murder on TV that does not make you murderer, and if sex with children is crime then observing such act is exactly same as observing murder.
of course paying for production of such movie may be illegal.

I might possibly agree, I'm not sure. Its an area that's dicey. I assume people make it illegal because its viewed as encouraging pedophilia. In some cases, art, designed to deal with the issue of pedophilia have been ruled "child porn".

if you just simply deny right for people to see specific matrix of pixels on screen that exactly same as thought crime.

Not exactly the same. Its not illegal to declare yourself a pedophile. 

[Omega]

I also have some "interesting" fetishes that no way can be fulfilled in realty without severe legal problems.

In the US, "legal problems" stem from taking one's freedom and liberty away without proper authority.  A pedophile can fantasize all they want, but as soon as they take advantage of a child who is not able to consent to sexual acts, they invite "legal problems."  The only reason homosexuality (and polygamy and other unconventional unions between consenting adults) is currently not offered legal protection is because they have been traditionally considered immoral by virtue of ancient religious laws.  For this reason homosexual marriages are being contested, as they are understood to be unions by consenting adults and not actually in violation of anyone's freedom or liberty.

My fetish has nothing to do with kids. But still i do not see any reason why US should care about what is happening in some obscure country where people are dying like fleas anyway.
Marriage got legal protection because government want people to breed more this is especially visible in some EU countries where government will literally buy your kids. If you agree to marry you get big social bonuses with hope that you will turn into breeding machine. when child is born you get long holidays and heavy support later  in fact you can even live pretty well just from these bonuses you get for you children

Government is using my tax money to pay for other people and I definitely do not want then to increase army of these leeches by adding gays. Thats only reason why I oppose gay marriage.
in fact I equally oppose straight marriages but I cant do anything about that because married straight are majority and they set their own rules.

[plethora]

What the fucking fuck? 

Alright, let me try and hit each point in this thread...

a) Same-sex couples deserve the same exact rights that heterosexual couples deserve. Neither group should be entitled to exclusive rights over the other group.

b) It is illegal for any adult to have sex with any minor, regardless of whether it is same-sex or not. I fully agree with this.

c) Pedophiles do not chose to be attracted to children, they are born that way. I am against thought crime. As far as I'm concerned, they can fantasize as much as they like as long as they do no act on those fantasies in real life with actual children.

d) Child porn, where the abuse of a real life child is on tape, is illegal and should fucking stay that way. When people download child porn they are creating demand for the same which fuels the black markets that are using and exploiting children to meet that demand.

e) Cartoon depictions of child porn should not be illegal. In that case, no child was actually harmed.

f) Anyone ... single, married or other... should be allowed to adopt children, regardless of their sexual orientation, provided they meet the requirements for adoption.

There... I think I hit everything.

[Omega]

If you count money, the pool of homosexual sexual tax paters already pays for themselves
In fact they have been subsidizing hetero marriage.

that's what I am talking about, but you for get that not only gayys and straight pay taxes.
single people aslo pay taxes and subsidize straight marriages, and if you legalize gay marriages it will happen that these people will be forced to subsidize gays and straight.
they is definitely wrong when one pervert or just single is paying for another pervert.

I am not talking about sex in public kissing and petting each other  is enough to make many people around sick.

Ugly people also pet and kiss in public. Lots of ugly men don;t wear there shirts.
Hell, I kind of feel uncomfortable when a really hot chick decides to kiss her boy friend in front of me.
Thing is, one can ignore it.

you do not need to tell that to me I have no problems with that. just there are people who do.

I might agree. The thing is, some screening criterion are needed. There are definitely people who adopt children who shouldn't.

Screening wont help you because if you select nice family who want to adopt child it does not men they wont use it as slave or as their pet which they buy as toy for their kids.
there are lots of cases of adopted child abuse and even more cases when these kids do not get any love.

I might possibly agree, I'm not sure. Its an area that's dicey. I assume people make it illegal because its viewed as encouraging pedophilia. In some cases, art, designed to deal with the issue of pedophilia have been ruled "child porn".

do you know any kind of information where the fact that you received it may grant you jail time?
even if you accidentally click in link that contains child porn you may be in problem.

this clearly has nothing to do with child abuse, it is persecution according to your desires.
even if you are pedophile you are not allowed to tell that anyone or you may end dead.
It is exactly same as with gays in Iran. crime itself has no meaning here you are being punished for who you are not for what you do.

Not exactly the same. Its not illegal to declare yourself a pedophile. 

result would be same as if you declare yourself gay in Iran

[Omega]

What the fucking fuck? 

Alright, let me try and hit each point in this thread...
a) Same-sex couples deserve the same exact rights that heterosexual couples deserve. Neither group should be entitled to exclusive rights over the other group.

and why couples should have exclusive rights against singles or trios?
How about incest couples? Or what would you think about gay incest, if to twin brother want to marry each other?

b) It is illegal for any adult to have sex with any minor, regardless of whether it is same-sex or not. I fully agree with this.

it is ilegal but there is no reason why it must be so. I think denying right to choose just because you have not enough age is discrimination.

c) Pedophiles do not chose to be attracted to children, they are born that way. I am against thought crime. As far as I'm concerned, they can fantasize as much as they like as long as they do no act on those fantasies in real life with actual children.

well you probably dont know what they do. pedophiles may be quite happy to work as child gynecologist, PE teacher  or similar work that involves children. this does not men that pedophile will ever rape anyone, but I think no school will let pedophile work as teacher.

d) Child porn, where the abuse of a real life child is on tape, is illegal and should fucking stay that way. When people download child porn they are creating demand for the same which fuels the black markets that are using and exploiting children to meet that demand.

in which way child porn piracy is supporting producers? I think it is exactly opposite.
why police should chase these who pirate child porn and damage that black market?

e) Cartoon depictions of child porn should not be illegal. In that case, no child was actually harmed.

maybe it should be legal but it is not. no store will accept such move and you may lose advertising revenue if you post such content on your site.
only country where such content is legal is japan and movies that are imported to US are usually adjusted to make all characters 18 years bestiality scene are removed.

f) Anyone ... single, married or other... should be allowed to adopt children, regardless of their sexual orientation, provided they meet the requirements for adoption.

thats right, and everything should be made in a way that marriage should provide no benefits on its own.

[plethora]

and why couples should have exclusive rights against singles or trios?
How about incest couples? Or what would you think about gay incest, if to twin brother want to marry each other?

You're right. Singles should have just as many rights and so should trios and any other combination of partnerships.

I have no problem with incest (gay or not) or twins marrying each other. That should be legal. Any two or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want together.

b) It is illegal for any adult to have sex with any minor, regardless of whether it is same-sex or not. I fully agree with this.

it is ilegal but there is no reason why it must be so. I think denying right to choose just because you have not enough age is discrimination.

Now hold on there. I'm talking about preventing people from abusing positions of trust. A 30 year old has a clear advantage over a 15 year old.

I know 18 is an arbitrary age, but it is the average age in which a person reaches physical biological maturity (i.e. adulthood). It is the most logical line to draw in my opinion.

I have no problem with minors having sex from puberty onwards... but they must be close to the same age. They probably shouldn't be having sex with anyone over 2 years their elder until they reach 18.

well you probably dont know what they do. pedophiles may be quite happy to work as child gynecologist, PE teacher  or similar work that involves children. this does not men that pedophile will ever rape anyone, but I think no school will let pedophile work as teacher.

There's no easy way around this. No parent would want their kids to be in a position of trust with an openly declared pedophile. Just as I wouldn't want to work for someone who openly declares they fantasize about murdering employees. Not that they'll take any action on it ... but they'd be better off keeping that kind of shit to themselves.

in which way child porn piracy is supporting producers? I think it is exactly opposite.
why police should chase these who pirate child porn and damage that black market?

Just because there's a black market within a black market doesn't make things any better. When a person obtains child porn they don't necessarily know how the source came into possession of it. Fact is, people are enslaving and exploiting children for the purpose of profiting from the distribution of child porn and child prostitution and by obtaining child porn one is supporting that black market industry.

e) Cartoon depictions of child porn should not be illegal. In that case, no child was actually harmed.

maybe it should be legal but it is not. no store will accept such move and you may lose advertising revenue if you post such content on your site.
only country where such content is legal is japan and movies that are imported to US are usually adjusted to make all characters 18 years bestiality scene are removed.

I'm just saying it should be legal. How to go about changing legislation on this in the US is a whole other ballpark.

f) Anyone ... single, married or other... should be allowed to adopt children, regardless of their sexual orientation, provided they meet the requirements for adoption.

thats right, and everything should be made in a way that marriage should provide no benefits on its own.

Okay ... but providing benefits to people who adopted a child is only fair. I would want to encourage adoption versus people just breeding. We don't need more people in the world. There are plenty of children already here that need taking care of.

[albeto]

My fetish has nothing to do with kids.

I think animals are considered the same as kids - unable to give consent.  I don't know about incest.  Whatever your particular fetish is, if it violates another's rights (as understood by lack of voluntary consent) then it should be suppressed.

But still i do not see any reason why US should care about what is happening in some obscure country where people are dying like fleas anyway.

What does this have to do with anything?

Marriage got legal protection because government want people to breed more this is especially visible in some EU countries where government will literally buy your kids. If you agree to marry you get big social bonuses with hope that you will turn into breeding machine. when child is born you get long holidays and heavy support later  in fact you can even live pretty well just from these bonuses you get for you children

Sorry, mr conspiracy theorist, marriage is legally protected because it's been traditionally protected for a variety of reasons.   

Government is using my tax money to pay for other people and I definitely do not want then to increase army of these leeches by adding gays. Thats only reason why I oppose gay marriage.
in fact I equally oppose straight marriages but I cant do anything about that because married straight are majority and they set their own rules.

Is this a joke? This doesn't make any sense. 

[Omega]

You're right. Singles should have just as many rights and so should trios and any other combination of partnerships.
I have no problem with incest (gay or not) or twins marrying each other. That should be legal. Any two or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want together.

seems we completely agree on this issue, but the problems is that majority of gays and straight do not. they still are against incest marriages or polygamous families.
and I see this not fair, you do not deserve any rights if you deny same rights to others.
That was point of my topic.

[Now hold on there. I'm talking about preventing people from abusing positions of trust. A 30 year old has a clear advantage over a 15 year old.
I know 18 is an arbitrary age, but it is the average age in which a person reaches physical biological maturity (i.e. adulthood). It is the most logical line to draw in my opinion.
I have no problem with minors having sex from puberty onwards... but they must be close to the same age. They probably shouldn't be having sex with anyone over 2 years their elder until they reach 18.

I also agree with you  about abuse but. that's nothing special what cant happen with adults. 18 year girl can marry 70 years old geezer and work as prostitute.
adults can be exploited no less than children. however don't forget that 15 year girl is also quite capable to exploit 30 years old man.

also there are other forms of very harmful child exploiting. sex is quite innocent comparing to cases when mother uses her child as surrogate husband dropping all her emotional problems in him. or when parents use their children as weapons against each other.
I think it would be far better to live in  loving family where you have occasional petting with you uncle, than family where your mother is using you as tool to harm your father, or when she is constantly reminding you how miserable is her life and ho she gave everything to you.

I recommend you to check a book  "covert incest" and you will see that pedophiles are last thing to worry about.

By the way you should remember that pedophiles rarely have sex with kids, that just physically impossible and if they do that child may be severely hurt .
these who do that are not much respected. typically they limit themselves to anonymous chat or sometimes they touch some kids in a way they don't even understand what happened.
most of child abuse is just inappropriate touching.

There's no easy way around this. No parent would want their kids to be in a position of trust with an openly declared pedophile. Just as I wouldn't want to work for someone who openly declares they fantasize about murdering employees. Not that they'll take any action on it ... but they'd be better off keeping that kind of shit to themselves.

Then how it is different when parents refuse to send their kids to gay teacher?
I do not talk about cases when pedophile or gay  puts big flashing sign on his door, but such information may leak and then you loose your job.
just like your employee may be discovered that he posted snuff story about murdering his coworkers. does that qualify as reason to fire him?

Just because there's a black market within a black market doesn't make things any better. When a person obtains child porn they don't necessarily know how the source came into possession of it. Fact is, people are enslaving and exploiting children for the purpose of profiting from the distribution of child porn and child prostitution and by obtaining child porn one is supporting that black market industry.

you can use emule and download any kind of porn  but sometime cops will knock to your door  and you will get in jail for piracy of child porn.
I completely agree that if you buy it from someone that can be illegal, but if you simply click on some file name with your mouse and get in jail for that I thinks its to much.
I am not into that stuff, but still it is interesting to see what is all that about, or else you will be completely ignorant, and yet I cant even do legal research on that thing.
what If I want to write article about child abuse where i should get required material legally?
also if you do research you need to quotes to prove your ideas, but how you can do that if all material is strictly forbidden?

I'm just saying it should be legal. How to go about changing legislation on this in the US is a whole other ballpark.

Unfortunately you cant even talk about such things openly and most people even do not discuss that possibility.
and if you talk about such things in porn forum you will be banned.

Okay ... but providing benefits to people who adopted a child is only fair. I would want to encourage adoption versus people just breeding. We don't need more people in the world. There are plenty of children already here that need taking care of.

I completely agree on that, but at least where I live you wont get any benefits for your child unless you are married.

[One Above All]

You're right. Singles should have just as many rights and so should trios and any other combination of partnerships.
I have no problem with incest (gay or not) or twins marrying each other. That should be legal. Any two or more consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want together.

seems we completely agree on this issue, but the problems is that majority of gays and straight do not. they still are against incest marriages or polygamous families.
and I see this not fair, you do not deserve any rights if you deny same rights to others.
That was point of my topic.

Isn't this hypocritical of you? You're saying that since they disagree with you on who should get certain rights, we should deny them those very rights. By that logic nobody should have any rights at all.
People always disagree on who should get some rights. We just have to be fair about it and give equal rights to all, not deny others rights so they'll agree on giving those rights to groups they don't like.

[violatedsmurf80]

Prostitution is forbidden in most or the world, as well as sex parties,orgies and other exclusively fun sex acts.
Punishment for these "crimes" depend on local laws but even if no legal punishment will follow you will be seen as immoral person by significant portion of society.

lets take a look at Los Vegas, they allow prostitution, swingers, and other sex acts but any one there does not look at the people at partake in the activity as immoral! it is only were Christian movements influence the population of that city. In fact there crime rate toward sex crimes is the lowest in the country if not the world.