Cherrypicking for Tolerance

[Hatter23]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-dr-janet-edwards/lgbt-in-church-top-5-questions-asked-by-opponents_b_974290.html

[curiousgirl]

The author of that article seems to love her magic decoder ring:

As we learn, we grow, and our understanding and interpretation of Scripture changes.

I'll bet it does. And the changes probably happen to be very convenient ones. 

[violatedsmurf80]

i would of used chary instead of cherry for this one.

[Hatter23]

The author of that article seems to love her magic decoder ring:

As we learn, we grow, and our understanding and interpretation of Scripture changes.

I'll bet it does. And the changes probably happen to be very convenient ones. 

Yeah I was thinking much the same thing. Instead of SPAG we get SPATBIT, Self projection as the biblical interpreted truth.

[jaimehlers]

Would you prefer the rabid, fire-breathing "gays are evil" type of Christian?

[Hatter23]

Would you prefer the rabid, fire-breathing "gays are evil" type of Christian?

No, however, I was just using this as yet another example of how cherry picking and interpretation will always end up supporting any position, even if it is diametrically opposed to another "Biblical" position.

[screwtape]

Here is my problem:  when people come to "new, better interpretations" of the bible, why is the bible not ammended?  Why not take out those confusing/ misleading/ easy to misinterpret verses in genesis or leviticus about stoning homos or whores or adulterers?  Because if you leave them there, some asshole down the road is just going to make a regressive interpretation and undo all the "progress" made.  Why allow that?  Why take that chance?  When we have dumb laws, we take them off the books[1]. When we have wrong ideas, we edit the science books, or history books or whatever.  What is wrong with saying "cripes, man, whomever put the bible together had some ass-backwards ideas about women.  Let's take that shit out"?  If people actually think their interpretation is what god wants, then it is their responsibility to change the bible.

1.	yeah, yeah, not always.  but we should

[plethora]

^^ Do that and watch the bible slowly disappear before their very eyes to the point where it can be summarized in a single page.

[nogodsforme]

And then it will be small enough to be drowned in a bathtub.

[theczar]

As we all know, once you open the Bible's meaning up to interpetation, any point can be supported. I find this laughable, if the Bible is clear on anything, it's homosexuality. Here's a blog post where a gay Christian answers questions.

http://rachelheldevans.com/ask-a-gay-christian-response

"The more I studied, the more convinced I became that we Christians had applied a different standard to the homosexuality texts than we had to other Scriptural texts, and that condemning Christ-centered relationships solely based on gender was actually inconsistent with biblical teaching.

Really? Because it sounds like you know what you wanted the Bible to say, so you just "studied" and "prayed" until you came to the interpretation you desired. 

[albeto]

As we all know, once you open the Bible's meaning up to interpetation, any point can be supported. I find this laughable, if the Bible is clear on anything, it's homosexuality. Here's a blog post where a gay Christian answers questions.

http://rachelheldevans.com/ask-a-gay-christian-response

"The more I studied, the more convinced I became that we Christians had applied a different standard to the homosexuality texts than we had to other Scriptural texts, and that condemning Christ-centered relationships solely based on gender was actually inconsistent with biblical teaching.

Really? Because it sounds like you know what you wanted the Bible to say, so you just "studied" and "prayed" until you came to the interpretation you desired. 

If the bible is clear on anything, it's how to find SPAG.

[jaimehlers]

Would you prefer the rabid, fire-breathing "gays are evil" type of Christian?

No, however, I was just using this as yet another example of how cherry picking and interpretation will always end up supporting any position, even if it is diametrically opposed to another "Biblical" position.

People aren't exactly rational about stuff like this, I agree.

I think the only effective way to get around this is to legally require equal treatment regardless of what a book like the Bible says, the same way it works with non-religious forms of intolerance.

[flapdoodle64]

Well, obviously, I prefer to share the planet with the more tolerant type of theist than the less tolerant type...

But, the 'tolerant' theists, by performing these feats of intellectual contortionism, reinforce the fundamentalist position no matter what...as long as it is forbidden to say that the Bible is just a book of created by human authors and is therefore no more sacred than "Valley of the Dolls," the liberal Xians ultimately support the Fundies, despite the liberals' intentions. 

As long as the delusion that bible is a magical book of truth persists, the fundies and the libs will continue to argue over minor points, but remain in agreement about the fact that everyone else is going to hell. 

Frankly, I doubt if Xians really worship an invisible man in the sky.  I think most really worship the bible, specifically the version of the bible they possess, as interpreted by their favorite preacher.  Who can really hold in his head a convincing image of a giant invisible perfect ominiscent eternal man in the sky?  Whereas a human can hold a mental image of a book quite easily.  Simple idol worship is all. 

[jaimehlers]

Actually, not all Christians believe that nonbelievers are going to hell.  I would say that most of them believe it's only the bad people who go to hell, with some believing there is no such thing as hell (whether it's the pit of fire and brimstone or the "spiritual desert").

Though you do have a point that most Christians are effectively substituting the Bible for God or Jesus.  Some Christians avoid that trap, but most fall for it hook and sinker.

[Babdah]

not all Christians believe that nonbelievers are going to hell.

Every body goes to hell, you have to realize that Hell is a different place than the Lake of Fire. Hell is a temporary place of waiting for judgment and Lake of Fire is the place of eternal punishment. Flat earth play a role in this, Phil. 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And then there are seven verses in Revelation that refers to a 'bottomless pit', and that the center of the earth would be a 'bottomless pit' which is the Lake of Fire and under the earth is Hell. what nobody listen to Nirvana 

[Hatter23]

not all Christians believe that nonbelievers are going to hell.

Every body goes to hell, you have to realize that Hell is a different place than the Lake of Fire. Hell is a temporary place of waiting for judgment and Lake of Fire is the place of eternal punishment. Flat earth play a role in this, Phil. 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And then there are seven verses in Revelation that refers to a 'bottomless pit', and that the center of the earth would be a 'bottomless pit' which is the Lake of Fire and under the earth is Hell. what nobody listen to Nirvana 

You say these things as if they are absolutes. The exact mythological cosmology of the afterlife varies widely according to the Christian sect, subsect, or believer. Hell could be;

(1)temporary until judgement day,
(2) for anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior
(3)occur immediately and forever after death
(4)vary in intensity of punishment according to one's sinfulness
(5)simple exinction
(6)a place without god of nothing but darkness...no torture just a perpetual feeling of "you missed heaven, sorry sucker" not dissimilar to the greek Hades
(7)Only for evil people
(8)vary in length for peoples sinfulness, including things that are "sins" only for a particular sect. Like eating meat on a Friday in 1968 that you never confessed to a preist

Welcome to mythology; where not only is SPAG omnipresent...the entire cosmos is a YMMV situation.

[Babdah]

You say these things as if they are absolutes. The exact mythological cosmology of the afterlife varies widely according to the Christian sect, subsect, or believer. Hell could be;

(1)temporary until judgement day,
(2) for anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior
(3)occur immediately and forever after death
(4)vary in intensity of punishment according to one's sinfulness
(5)simple exinction
(6)a place without god of nothing but darkness...no torture just a perpetual feeling of "you missed heaven, sorry sucker" not dissimilar to the greek Hades
(7)Only for evil people
(8)vary in length for peoples sinfulness, including things that are "sins" only for a particular sect. Like eating meat on a Friday in 1968 that you never confessed to a preist

Welcome to mythology; where not only is SPAG omnipresent...the entire cosmos is a YMMV situation.

Let me ask you a question, Have you ever spoken with any that had died? If so please inform all of us how it really is. every religion has there version of hell just because some crazy person decides to interpret the way they want does not mean that they are right the bible tells us what the christian hell is point blank. history tell us that something happen by numerous account lets look at the flood story apparently something happen that caused a flood, it in almost every ancient text. just like the story of the grim reaper being on the out side of fields before the plague broke the same thing happen when the Spanish flu occurred, some call it the moth man some call it the grim reaper. are these guys wrong, there are numerous accounts so why would they be wrong with the bible? God admits he is a jealous god so that says that there is other god?

[Hatter23]

You say these things as if they are absolutes. The exact mythological cosmology of the afterlife varies widely according to the Christian sect, subsect, or believer. Hell could be;

(1)temporary until judgement day,
(2) for anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior
(3)occur immediately and forever after death
(4)vary in intensity of punishment according to one's sinfulness
(5)simple exinction
(6)a place without god of nothing but darkness...no torture just a perpetual feeling of "you missed heaven, sorry sucker" not dissimilar to the greek Hades
(7)Only for evil people
(8)vary in length for peoples sinfulness, including things that are "sins" only for a particular sect. Like eating meat on a Friday in 1968 that you never confessed to a preist

Welcome to mythology; where not only is SPAG omnipresent...the entire cosmos is a YMMV situation.

Let me ask you a question, Have you ever spoken with any that had died?

No, no one has. Dead is dead. There no more.

 If so please inform all of us how it really is. every religion has there version of hell just because some crazy person decides to interpret the way they want does not mean that they are right the bible tells us what the christian hell is point blank. history tell us that something happen by numerous account lets look at the flood story apparently something happen that caused a flood, it in almost every ancient text. just like the story of the grim reaper being on the out side of fields before the plague broke the same thing happen when the Spanish flu occurred, some call it the moth man some call it the grim reaper. are these guys wrong, there are numerous accounts so why would they be wrong with the bible? God admits he is a jealous god so that says that there is other god?

If the Bible "Tells us what Christian hell is point Blank;" then why do major sect of Christianity disagree? I'll tell you why, because they have decided "x" is true, and can find whatever passages or reasoning they need to to back it up. None of the 8 vairious and somewhat contradictory "facts" about hell are from little 200 person splinter Christian denominations. They all are from major sects.

[velkyn]

Let me ask you a question, Have you ever spoken with any that had died? If so please inform all of us how it really is.

like you just tried to do?   

every religion has there version of hell just because some crazy person decides to interpret the way they want does not mean that they are right the bible tells us what the christian hell is point blank.

Some crazy person? Like you who has no evidence that your particular "interpretation" is right?

history tell us that something happen by numerous account lets look at the flood story apparently something happen that caused a flood, it in almost every ancient text.

No, it doesn't.  There is no evidence for any global flood.  All we have are myths about how "evil" is dealt with by a god, and floods are a handy tool since all civilizations are built around rivers.

just like the story of the grim reaper being on the out side of fields before the plague broke the same thing happen when the Spanish flu occurred, some call it the moth man some call it the grim reaper. are these guys wrong, there are numerous accounts so why would they be wrong with the bible? God admits he is a jealous god so that says that there is other god?

Just becasue people have delusions and a lot of them do have them, this doesn't mean that delusions are real.   

[Babdah]

like you just tried to do?   

Please tell me were i tried to talk to the dead?

Like you who has no evidence that your particular "interpretation" is right?

Prove me other wise

No, it doesn't.  There is no evidence for any global flood.  All we have are myths about how "evil" is dealt with by a god, and floods are a handy tool since all civilizations are built around rivers.

then how do you know that a river did not rise and to them kill all that they know maybe it tramatized them and to them that is how they felt.

Just becasue people have delusions and a lot of them do have them, this doesn't mean that delusions are real.

what do you consider a delusion? if you had a dream that told you to play some numbers but you did not and the next day the numbers were on tv and you told you B/F BFF or husband that you had a dream about them. would that be consider a delusion to you?

[plethora]

like you just tried to do?   

Please tell me were i tried to talk to the dead?

Ever pray to Jesus? He's dead isn't he?

Besides, Velkyn was referring to your ironically trying to tell us what the afterlife is like and then calling anyone who has any other explanation crazy just because it disagrees with yours.

Like you who has no evidence that your particular "interpretation" is right?

Prove me other wise

No... you need to prove your claims are true. We have no obligation to prove you wrong. You make the claim, you have the burden of proof.

So ... where's you proof?

No, it doesn't.  There is no evidence for any global flood.  All we have are myths about how "evil" is dealt with by a god, and floods are a handy tool since all civilizations are built around rivers.

then how do you know that a river did not rise and to them kill all that they know maybe it tramatized them and to them that is how they felt.

Oh the irony!! The bible says the earth was covered and everything died except what was on the Ark. So now it's okay for your to reinterpret the bible?

Not only do you have no proof of any such flood event, but you are a colossal hypocrite.

Just becasue people have delusions and a lot of them do have them, this doesn't mean that delusions are real.

what do you consider a delusion? if you had a dream that told you to play some numbers but you did not and the next day the numbers were on tv and you told you B/F BFF or husband that you had a dream about them. would that be consider a delusion to you?

No. That's called a coincidence.

[velkyn]

Please tell me were i tried to talk to the dead?

Actually, I mean how you try to“inform all of us how it really is.”, although Pleth has a good, and rather funny, point.

Prove me other wise

Really, you want to go there?  Let’s see, you claimed this

every religion has there version of hell just because some crazy person decides to interpret the way they want does not mean that they are right the bible tells us what the christian hell is point blank.

and I responded 

Some crazy person? Like you who has no evidence that your particular "interpretation" is right?

It’s funny how you want to claim that anyone who disagrees with you is “the crazy person” but you have no more evidence than them that your claims are valid.  You make a claim that you are right, now prove it. I have seen theist after theist claim that they know what their god “really” meant and how they and they alone know what their holy book “really” says.  Each of you cherry picks what you want and declares “the bible says “x” point blank”. The problem is that you all contradict each other. I have yet to see any of you show that your particular interpretation is the only right one.  I also have yet to see any Christian actually be able to do the magic that JC promised they could do.  Are there any actual Christians around, certainly doesn’t seem like it.

then how do you know that a river did not rise and to them kill all that they know maybe it tramatized them and to them that is how they felt.

That’s what I’m saying, no gods needed and all of these gods are imaginary.  Again, this simply points to humans and not to any magical sky fairy.  You tried to claim this, Babs

history tell us that something happen by numerous account lets look at the flood story apparently something happen that caused a flood, it in almost every ancient text.

  History doesn’t tell us that something, e.g. one flood event, happened. History shows that floods happen and history shows that humans use myths in an attempt to describe their world and their place in it. No supernatural nonsense needed.

what do you consider a delusion? if you had a dream that told you to play some numbers but you did not and the next day the numbers were on tv and you told you B/F BFF or husband that you had a dream about them. would that be consider a delusion to you?

The wiki entry is a nice definition “A delusion is a false belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence”  And I would consider your scenario to be purely coincidence, just like Pleth said.  If it repeated, then I might consider something else is going on and study it further.  I’ll note that woo meisters like you completely depend on parlor tricks and coincidence for their evidence that they know some magical “secret” to the universe.  It’s common and rather pathetic.   

[Mr. Blackwell]

what nobody listen to Nirvana 

So what you're saying is that we get to see the dead again on the fourth of July, is that correct?