This is for YY - Proof of the Existence of a God.

[YY]

However, if you include EVERYTHING as God, there is no rationale to treat a rock more decently than the pig you just ate. Or, to believe any more that a rock has afterlife than you do. Therefore, your religious rationale has to be supplied from some other source.

BTW: Larry Silverstein should have checked whether his insurance company would pay out, after blowing up WTC. (Insurance Fraud 101.)

That's one way to look at it. Here's another . . .

So let's say there are some angry Muslims and they decide to hijack some airplanes and fly them into skyscrapers. MOST people's first reaction would be to want to find out who did this so they could retaliate and blow up some of their enemy's stuff.

If we look at this same scenario from a position of unified connection with all, we might look at some other things  first (before finding out who did this and wanting to blow up some of their stuff).

We might want to try to look at the root cause. What did they hate about our society? What caused them to believe that what they were doing was in their best interest? How were their thoughts creating their version of reality and how did that intersect with ours? How can we take measures to make sure something like this doesn't happen again?

One perspective sees the military as a solution. Another perspective sees education as another. I believe that with the faster flow of good (and bad) information, we'll quickly alternatives to address foreign affairs problems. We have a track record of using military might. Depending on what our government wants to see as the outcome, that may or may not be working.

That's one interpretation anyway.

[YY]

a) Is this God personally conscious of it's existence as everything? (If you hold this belief good luck explaining it.)
b) Or is this God only conscious of it's existence through the consciousness of living beings? (If so, there can be no personal messages it can relay.)

a) I would suspect that this would make more sense. God was aware of his omnipresenece, but that was it, only aware of it. The Universe was created so that God could become an experiential being.

Example would be if you were a programmer and just programmed the ultimate first person shoot-em-up. This is the baddest Mofo of all time. Only problem is, it's just code. God creating the universe is akin to the development of your code into the newest Half Life or Unreal to hit the shelves.

[YY]

A beautiful, outstanding!!, example of the type of nonsense that a god has been reduced to.

What we actually have here however, is a god that has been butchered by free thought and the findings of science and forced to get to the back of the line..... A god that has gone from an in your face god to one that's been forced into hiding in an unexplained foggy gap..... A god who has become so damned shrouded in mystery and woo woo that its now an abstraction an unfathomable..... A god that is barely hanging on by a philosophical thread and with science standing close by with scissors and ready to cut if necessary !

This "belief" that you have YY, is classic to Hinduism.

And with that said I will simply say "Namaste" 

Ahhh, namaste to you too.

All I can say to this is I'd rather believe in my God than some other. Personal preference of course.

[YY]

you can see more of YY's spag here in this thread: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,19301.232.html

As far as I can determine, YY is not a pantheist, but a Christian who doesn't like all of what his god is purported to be, so God gets made vaguer and vaguer so no one can ask YY the hard questions of what his god is like and why the bible shows such a primitive god typical of the Bronze/Iron Ages.

You crack me up. You hate Christians so you try to paint me as a Christian so you are justified in spewing your hate. You've asked the hard questions and I've answered them. Unfortunately, I haven't answered them in such a way that you can spring back with another tired, canned BibleGod response.  Don't worry. Keep waiting. Another unsuspecting born again will fall into your web shortly.

[YY]

1. How would your thoughts differ if he were not?
2. what is this god that is in all things? How does he manifest himself in, say, a tire?

Well, I believe our thoughts are things and we create our reality based on our thoughts. I've already cited an exampler to Ad Hom about terrorists flying a plane into a building and how my thoughts would differ if I didn't have this understanding of a God that is the source that we are all a part of. I hope that answer suffices.

2. If you take the strongest tool we have to see the tiniest particle of said tire, you'd see life happening. You'd see the flurry of activity that makes up the reality that we know of as the tire. You'd see the work involved in the life of this rubber that was cultivated and shaped and molded. The human labor involved to bring this molded rubber to market. The utility of this object and the miracle of travel in vehicles hurtling at incredible speeds all due in part to a simple "tire". There's my God in this tire.

[YY]

For me, all are wrong, but for you, you are right and the Hindu is wrong. Why is that?

Never said anything like that. The Hindu is on a different path to his or her highest truth.

1. What does "his or her highest truth." mean?

2. Is it the same as Salvation? Joh:14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 

Answering backwards - I don't think of Salvation in the traditional sense. Honestly, I don't think anyone needs to be "saved". If anything, salvation could be referring to salvation from our own limiting thoughts. If someone comes by and teaches me techniques that allow me to live my life to my fullest potential, I'm a believer!

I define highest truth as the thing that allows me the most beneficial experience in life - like living my passion, living a life worth living, helping others to do the same, making the life experience the best for the most possible.

[MMcNeely]

I'd have to say that all that is the biggest load of crap I've ever read... next to the Bible of course.

[YY]

I'd have to say that all that is the biggest load of crap I've ever read... next to the Bible of course.

Why?

[12 Monkeys]

1. How would your thoughts differ if he were not?
2. what is this god that is in all things? How does he manifest himself in, say, a tire?

Well, I believe our thoughts are things and we create our reality based on our thoughts. I've already cited an exampler to Ad Hom about terrorists flying a plane into a building and how my thoughts would differ if I didn't have this understanding of a God that is the source that we are all a part of. I hope that answer suffices.

2. If you take the strongest tool we have to see the tiniest particle of said tire, you'd see life happening. You'd see the flurry of activity that makes up the reality that we know of as the tire. You'd see the work involved in the life of this rubber that was cultivated and shaped and molded. The human labor involved to bring this molded rubber to market. The utility of this object and the miracle of travel in vehicles hurtling at incredible speeds all due in part to a simple "tire". There's my God in this tire.

Broken down by science there is no "god" to be found in any tire. Easily explained bonding of elements that make up said tire,no divinity,no spirit........YAWN

[MMcNeely]

Like monkeys said... no God in a tire.  There is no God in a tree, no God in a rock, and no God inside of you.  All of your thoughts about God are based on your own opinions, and not any sort of tangible evidence.

Your talking about God oceans, and banging some crazy God mermaid chick... It's like your on a continuous acid trip.  It's time to grow up and realize that there IS NO GOD.

[natlegend]

After reading this whole thread I have to say your version of god does sound very vague and limited, YY. And you have to admit, you have nothing to back up anything you have said, everything you posted is just your opinion.

Your god sounds pointless to me, so I'm curious as to why you would worship it? What do you gain?

[Samuelxcs]

After reading this whole thread I have to say your version of god does sound very vague and limited, YY. And you have to admit, you have nothing to back up anything you have said, everything you posted is just your opinion.

Your god sounds pointless to me, so I'm curious as to why you would worship it? What do you gain?

You sound like a capitalist to me, what would someone gain by worshipping a 'God' like that? Are most actions by people something that is for only gaining something else to you? If, for example, someone saved someone else's life, what would they gain from that? Maybe more time with their 'friend'? Maybe their 'friend' wanted to die. That sounds very capitalist to me. (Maybe it was a bad example though).

[plethora]

a) Is this God personally conscious of it's existence as everything? (If you hold this belief good luck explaining it.)
b) Or is this God only conscious of it's existence through the consciousness of living beings? (If so, there can be no personal messages it can relay.)

a) I would suspect that this would make more sense. God was aware of his omnipresenece, but that was it, only aware of it. The Universe was created so that God could become an experiential being.

So he's everywhere and he is aware that he is everywhere but he doesn't actually know what's happening everywhere?

... my brain hurts.

Example would be if you were a programmer and just programmed the ultimate first person shoot-em-up. This is the baddest Mofo of all time. Only problem is, it's just code. God creating the universe is akin to the development of your code into the newest Half Life or Unreal to hit the shelves.

Did god write the code or is he literally the code? Was the code written by someone or did it always exist?

Dude... this is the most vague, contorted god of the gaps argument I've ever heard.

[rev45]

So he's everywhere and he is aware that he is everywhere but he doesn't actually know what's happening everywhere?

I remember as a child I asked my mom that since god is everywhere that wouldn't he be a part of everything?  Trees, roads, animals, and every other thing on the planet.  Her response.  No.  Just simply that the idea was wrong and that I shouldn't go along believing it.  I learned so much that day.

[YY]

After reading this whole thread I have to say your version of god does sound very vague and limited, YY. And you have to admit, you have nothing to back up anything you have said, everything you posted is just your opinion.

Your god sounds pointless to me, so I'm curious as to why you would worship it? What do you gain?

First, I don't "worship" God. That is such a dated term that carries so much weight! Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

I am grateful and thank God on a daily basis for all of the blessings in my life. This prayer of thankfulness is akin to acknowledgement that there is life, there are others to interact with, at this particular time in the eternity of my existence, I feel joy for things like being able to post on message boards and discuss different points of view with others.

As previously stated, I believe that I gain more blessings and great things with God in my life rather than without. I believe this is similar to karmic fortune. I try at all times to give out love and empowerment and surround myself with those types of people and I am enjoying my life immensely because of it. Obviously, I am not perfect and need constant reminders, but I have God as a signpost or beacon to keep me on the right path to "my highest good".

I hope that explains why I feel I gain from believing in my God.

[MMcNeely]

First, I don't "worship" God. That is such a dated term that carries so much weight! Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

I am grateful and thank God on a daily basis for all of the blessings in my life. This prayer of thankfulness is akin to acknowledgement that there is life, there are others to interact with, at this particular time in the eternity of my existence, I feel joy for things like being able to post on message boards and discuss different points of view with others.

As previously stated, I believe that I gain more blessings and great things with God in my life rather than without. I believe this is similar to karmic fortune. I try at all times to give out love and empowerment and surround myself with those types of people and I am enjoying my life immensely because of it. Obviously, I am not perfect and need constant reminders, but I have God as a signpost or beacon to keep me on the right path to "my highest good".

I hope that explains why I feel I gain from believing in my God.

First, thanking a god every day for blessings is worship... learn to use a dictionary. 
Noun: The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

Second, if God were not "in your life" you would have the same amount of blessings and "great things." No god, especially some tire god, doesn't make your life blessed.

Third, If you define karma as doing good or evil things and others would be inclined to do the same to you, then yes karma exists.  If you define karma as some sort of spiritual force that influences others based on your actions, then no karma doesn't exist.

Fourth, if you need some sort of god to motivate you, that is sad.  If your being good because of fear or the promise of reward, then your not really being good at all.  People should be good just for the sake of being good, and not because they will burn in hell or receive 70 virgins when they die.

[YY]

First, thanking a god every day for blessings is worship... learn to use a dictionary. 
Noun: The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

Hey Judgy McJudgy, thanks for being so polite. Please let me know why reverence and adoration equal gratitude. I disagree with your assessment.

Second, if God were not "in your life" you would have the same amount of blessings and "great things." No god, especially some tire god, doesn't make your life blessed.

Obviously not, otherwise, I wouldn't have said that I attribute a lot of the blessings in my life to my belief in God.

Third, If you define karma as doing good or evil things and others would be inclined to do the same to you, then yes karma exists.  If you define karma as some sort of spiritual force that influences others based on your actions, then no karma doesn't exist.

Fourth, if you need some sort of god to motivate you, that is sad.  If your being good because of fear or the promise of reward, then your not really being good at all.  People should be good just for the sake of being good, and not because they will burn in hell or receive 70 virgins when they die.

If you see a sign post up ahead that says the speed limit is 55, you are reminded to drive 55. The sign doesn't "motivate" you to drive 55. It's just a reminder. You can choose to ignore it. You drive for another 40 miles and might forget and start building up to 75mph. You see another sign saying the limit is 55. It's a good reminder when you start to get off track. I don't fear the sign or think I'll burn in hell if I don't drive 55, but it's just a wonderful guide to keep me on track.

You're reading all of my posts with your own personal filters. Please try to remove those filters and see what I'm trying to say from an unbiased pov. Please also remove judgement as you seem to have a lot of that in your responses also.

[YY]

So he's everywhere and he is aware that he is everywhere but he doesn't actually know what's happening everywhere?

This was when there was a vacuum and before the universe existed. Also, this is just my version of the story. It's the one I choose to believe. It makes sense. Why not?

Did god write the code or is he literally the code? Was the code written by someone or did it always exist?

Dude... this is the most vague, contorted god of the gaps argument I've ever heard.

God is the code. This is just an example to illustrate the necessity for duality to experience the magnitude of the code.

[RaymondKHessel]

Ohh, *I* know this god! Yeah, this is the god I used to swing with back in my early 20's when I was eating exstacy and acid all the time.

It's one groovy god. It gets to just hang out behind the veil of reality all day, being energy/"source"/"the soul stream"/"the conduits"/whatever I need it to be to get profound and metaphysical and feel plugged in to the great Beyond... But it's nice and nebulous and fluffy like cotton so you can stuff it into any shaped container you want but never require it to hold a shape.

It let me go about my daily life being awed by this or that, and anything mind-blowing I could choose to chock up to "god" if I wanted in order to command a higher respect for that particular thing or idea, which came in very handy during philosophical conversations... Or I could flip the script and cut out the god part altogether and fall back on pure science or "fact" if I got cornered and/or was dangerously close to being called new-agey.

This particular god doesn't care what we do or don't do, but if we align our energies with it and walk a "true path" in life, it's energies will gently push us along like a zephyr, leading us to all kinds of good and true things we would never come across during our otherwise mundane journey through life.

Yep. Know that god well. We sure did have some times together. Especially on drugs, whoo boy. That time when I was candy flippin' and I watched the night sky's clouds coalesce into the screaming face from Floyd's The Wall, and the hum of the neighborhood's electricity got in sync with my pulse and my blood became a conductor for the manifested energies of the god being and the hum became the scream from the face in the cloud which created a resonant harmony in my bone marrow freaking WOWZERS and then I went inside and did a big ol' hit of Nitrous. And then I watched the ceiling fan spin some pixelated light around for awhile and I remember some chick who had a crush on me but was kind of gross kept wanting to rub my feet and I had to keep being like "No, really, I'm cool, but thanks." 'cos I mean I like a good foot massage and all but feet on drugs are freaky looking things and I didn't want or need this chick messing with them anyway plus taking off your socks and shoes is a major ordeal when you're that fashnootered and since I was continuously going outside and back inside anyway it would have been an actual inconvenience to take my shoes off I mean it was just like I honestly just didn't have any desire for a freaking foot massage and this chick couldn't get it through her head and kept giving me s**t about it like "What I just want to rub your feet what's your problem?" and I kept wanting to be like "I'VE GOT OTHER S**T ON MY MIND RIGHT NOW YOU FREAK THERE'S CRAZY GOOD MUSIC ON AND PEOPLE HAVING INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS AND I JUST SAW GOD OUT ON THE PATIO AND NOW HERE YOU KEEP TRYING TO GET ME TO SIT DOWN AND KEEP PAWING AT MY MOTHERFUCKING FEET LIKE SOME KIND OF RETARDED OCD PEDIATRIST OR SOMETHING JUST GO AWAY AND SHUT UP ABOUT FOOT MASSAGES LADY *PLEASE*" but everyone else was all fuckin' mellow yellow that night so I had to be polite and...

Oh wow, where was I? Oh yeah. Pantheist god. Good times. Still though, I shot pantheist god in the face (which is to say, I shot the multiverse in the face) years ago. In the end, I realized that trying to feel connected to everything all the time was just really exhausting. 

[MMcNeely]

Hey Judgy McJudgy, thanks for being so polite. Please let me know why reverence and adoration equal gratitude. I disagree with your assessment.

Adoration - The act of paying honor, as to a divine being; worship. Reverent homage.
Homage - Something done or given in acknowledgment.
Worship - Reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

If your homage (prayer) is done because of the great things god has done for you then it is adoration, and therefore worship.  If you require any more of an explanation my head will explode.

Obviously not, otherwise, I wouldn't have said that I attribute a lot of the blessings in my life to my belief in God.

Watch this... maybe it'll clear it up for you.

If you see a sign post up ahead that says the speed limit is 55, you are reminded to drive 55. The sign doesn't "motivate" you to drive 55. It's just a reminder. You can choose to ignore it. You drive for another 40 miles and might forget and start building up to 75mph. You see another sign saying the limit is 55. It's a good reminder when you start to get off track. I don't fear the sign or think I'll burn in hell if I don't drive 55, but it's just a wonderful guide to keep me on track. 

So, what sort of speed signs has god placed in your life?  Do you have some sort of Holy Book?  Pamphlet?  Divine revelation?  Or are your speed signs merely your own mind judging what you believe to be right and wrong?

You're reading all of my posts with your own personal filters. Please try to remove those filters and see what I'm trying to say from an unbiased pov. Please also remove judgement as you seem to have a lot of that in your responses also.

It is funny how most religious people maintain that we should come see things from their point of view.  Perhaps it should be you to come see things from the atheist pov.  I was a devout Christian for almost 20 years, so I know perfectly well how things look on that side of the fence... and trust me the grass is greener over here.  Your god has not shown himself to you, it has not written any holy book, and as far as I can tell you are it's only prophet.  I am no psychologist, but it would seem that you are very delusional.

And no, I'm not going to remove my judgment when it is warranted.  Feel free to judge me however you want.

[YY]

(This repsonse intended for RaymondKHessel)

Whew [singsongy]issues . . . [/singsongy]

My drug of choice is alcohol. I don't do other drugs. And that story - too much detail to be fake haha! I think you can be very lucid and find inspiration in my God. What kind of true omnipresent God is only in the "good"? That's a judgement call on your part.

I don't know why you "shot that god in the face". Were you happy but lazy? Are you happier now?

[YY]

Adoration - The act of paying honor, as to a divine being; worship. Reverent homage.
Homage - Something done or given in acknowledgment.
Worship - Reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

If your homage (prayer) is done because of the great things god has done for you then it is adoration, and therefore worship.  If you require any more of an explanation my head will explode.

How is it that you are typing so many definitions and have yet to come across the word "gratitude"? I am Grateful to God. Please try to see the difference in Gratitude and Worship.

[Alzael]

In that case everything you have to say is utterly meaningless, not to mention being functionally indistinguishable from delusion or mental illness.

So why bother trying to talk to others about something that you can't separate from insanity?

Maybe by your definition I am insane.

I didn't say that you were insane. I said that your beliefs were indistinguishable from insanity.

And no, it isn't by my definition. It is by the definition of the words and terms themsevles. To believe in something without evidence (which you openly have admitted that you cannot offer) is the definition of delusion.

Evidence, logic and reason are used by us ing science because they are the only way that we fouond so far that enables us to separate fantasy from reality. If you do not have evidence (and as I pointed out before, your personal experiences are not evidence) if your beliefs defy logic (which they do because they rely on fallacy and lack of evidence) then there is nothing to differentiate what you believe from something made up in the head of a mentally ill person.

Your beliefs have no basis in reality. In fact you have to completely ignore observable reality in order to hold your beliefs. So no, it is not my definition. It is the definition of the word as it used.

What if you removed all of your atheist understanding and just try to understand what I am saying from an unbiased pov? You can try that or not. Maybe if you take a different perspective, you'll be able to see what I'm talking about whether or not you agree.

As I said, bias has nothing to do with it. It is simply a matter of fact. Without logic or evidence there is absolutely nothing that separates anything you say or believe in from a made-up fantasy.

You see I once did have your perspective. When I was five I had several imaginary friends that I loved to play with. I would talk to them and they would give me advice on how to deal with my problems. They would play Ninja Turtles with me and we would battle Shredder together. When I got in trouble for setting fire to the stove I would blame it on one of them. But then something happened one day......

I grew up.

I started to realize that my friends weren't real, I was creating them in my head because it made me feel better to have someone around that would always be on my side. Someone that would always support me and that would give me a friendly ear to listen to and never tell anyone. However, as I turned seven I decided that it time to leave such childish things behind and focus on actually understanding the world and how it works. So I admitted to myself that my friends never existed, they were imaginary.

You see, I did once take your perpsective, that reality can just be made up as I want it to be. That people and things which existed in my head really existed in the outside world as well even though no one but me could perceive it. Eventually however I faced the truth, that reality does not bend over to my every whim. That no matter how much I might wish it and think it is true, Ami from SailorMoon is not a real person waiting for me to find her and make her my girlfriend. It hurt to admit such a thing as young man, nearly tore my heart in two, but I eventually got over it. Just as you would if you admitted the truth about your own beliefs.

The problem here YY, is that you never really stopped to consider anything that anyone has said. Rather than actually paying attention to my posts to you, you jumped straight to "atheist understanding" (whatever that is supposed to mean) and "bias" without ever pausing to consider that there may be a point. I can tell this because not only did you not even address the point, you didn't even respond to it. You responded to something that you thought was being said (that I was claiming you were insane) because you failed to take the time and consideration to understand what I wrote. Yet you accuse me of being the one who is not trying to see things from your persective.

I know what your perspective is, because I have heard it over and over again from every single theist who comes through here daily. It's always the same perspective, and it's always ridiculous.

Until you have evidence to support your belief, it is no different than a delusion. This is not bias or opinion. It is simply a fact. You can argue and whine about, fall down on the floor and bang your hands against it in the violent throes of a theistic temper tantrum. You can ignore it, disagree with it, and denounce it to the uncaring heavens. However nothing will change that fact until you can provide evidence.

Perhaps if you tried to think like a rational person, you would understand what we are talking about?

[YY]

Watch this... maybe it'll clear it up for you.

You are really not understanding me.

So, what sort of speed signs has god placed in your life?  Do you have some sort of Holy Book?  Pamphlet?  Divine revelation?  Or are your speed signs merely your own mind judging what you believe to be right and wrong?

When I'm in the "zone", I try to look at all decisions and actions in my life looking for the win-win. I try to speak with empowering words rather than limiting ones. The signposts are reminders of how I can continue looking for inspiration rather than opression.

It is funny how most religious people maintain that we should come see things from their point of view.  Perhaps it should be you to come see things from the atheist pov.  I was a devout Christian for almost 20 years, so I know perfectly well how things look on that side of the fence... and trust me the grass is greener over here.  Your god has not shown himself to you, it has not written any holy book, and as far as I can tell you are it's only prophet.  I am no psychologist, but it would seem that you are very delusional.

And no, I'm not going to remove my judgment when it is warranted.  Feel free to judge me however you want.

I'm not asking you to see things from my pov to become a theist. I'm saying that you are not understanding what I'm talking about because you see what I'm saying and project an atheist pov on what's being said. If you reboot and clear your mind of your filters, you might understand what I'm trying to say.

It's like you're a left wing liberal (not saying that you are) listening to Rush Limbaugh. You hear certain words and fill in the blanks with your left wing pov. Rush says one thing but you hear something totally different than what he was trying to say due to your filters. Let's say Randi Rhodes says the exact same thing that Rush just said adn you agree 100%. Step back and try to see what I'm saying here.

[YY]

I didn't say that you were insane. I said that your beliefs were indistinguishable from insanity.

Which still makes you indistinguishable from someone who is mentally ill.

If I said this, I'd be called a Christian liar by some . . .

The problem here YY, is that you never really stopped to consider anything that anyone has said. Rather than actually paying attention to my posts to you, you jumped straight to "atheist understanding" (whatever that is supposed to mean) and "bias" without ever pausing to consider that there may be a point.

I am considering what people are saying. Here's the other problem. Once some of you read that I have no proof that you'd like, they immediately jump to the "insanity" argument. Yes, there are definitions of words which mean that you are right about my arguments being indistinguishable from insanity, but this is why I'm trying to relate to you what effect God has on my life, rather than proving its existence. You can jump to the imaginary friend analogy again, but please tell me how your imaginary friends impacted your adult quality of life and if it changed things for the better or worse.

When you get caught up on semantics and proving points, you are reading with "atheist understanding". If you nitpik, you won't get past "prove it". And there's no temper tantrum here. I'm simply trying to relay to you my understanding of God and how this affects my life and this is totally independent of what anyone else on this board does with their life.

[MMcNeely]

How is it that you are typing so many definitions and have yet to come across the word "gratitude"? I am Grateful to God. Please try to see the difference in Gratitude and Worship.

If I may quote you from earlier...

I am grateful and thank God on a daily basis for all of the blessings in my life. This prayer of thankfulness is akin to acknowledgement that there is life, there are others to interact with, at this particular time in the eternity of my existence, I feel joy for things like being able to post on message boards and discuss different points of view with others.

So, by you own words you have admitted that you pray to your ocean tire god every day.  You pray to him/her/it thanking him/her/it for all of the life, people to interact with, and being able to post things on the internet.  It's a pray that would go something like this:

Dear Mystical Tire God,

I thank you so much for the things you have done in my life.  From life itself to the people I see every day.  I thank you so much tire god, for the internet, and especially for www.whywontgodhealamputees.com that I may voice my opinion and have discussions with people of different views.  I also thank your for the speed limit signs in my life, and for reminding me to only go 55 even though I can go 75 in a school zone without any sort of repercussion.  Thank you tire god, because I know that you are in and a part of all the things mentioned above, and all the other things in the multiverses.

In the Name of Bridgestone I pray.  Amen.

If that isn't adoraton/worship/kiss assing, I don't know what is!

You can be grateful for many things.  I am grateful that I have a job, and can pay my bills.  I am grateful that my family is healthy.  I am very grateful for the BJ my wife just gave me.  But god(s) had no part in any of those.  I got my job because I met all of the criteria of my employers, my family is healthy because their immune systems are successfully fighting bacteria, and my wife gave me a BJ because I asked her to... and also because I bought her a new purse today.  LOL  The line with gratitude becomes worship is when you attribute all the things in your life to the divine intervention of some spiritual being.  The universe has no set course, I have no pre-determined path, and sometimes shit just happens.

I'm not asking you to see things from my pov to become a theist. I'm saying that you are not understanding what I'm talking about because you see what I'm saying and project an atheist pov on what's being said. If you reboot and clear your mind of your filters, you might understand what I'm trying to say.

And if you rebooted and clear your mind of filters, you might understand what I am saying.

[shnozzola]

As previously stated, I believe that I gain more blessings and great things with God in my life rather than without. I believe this is similar to karmic fortune. I try at all times to give out love and empowerment and surround myself with those types of people and I am enjoying my life immensely because of it. Obviously, I am not perfect and need constant reminders, but I have God as a signpost or beacon to keep me on the right path to "my highest good".

YY,
I was OK with you up until here^^.  You have no idea what you’re talking about just as we have no idea what we’re talking about.  No one of us has proof.  IMO, as this ole ball churns it becomes clear to many that extreme theists are really starting to get dangerous to life, and that explains WWGHA -  because many as atheists are afraid of people who are convinced enough that they are right that they need to kill those who believe differently. 

It scares many atheists enough to become militant.

If you think god is everything, you probably have no judgement on anybody, and that is the main thing.  If you are convinced you are correct, but mean no harm to those of us who think otherwise, hey – enjoy – that’s what many of us are doing!

But, the above quote let’s some doubt into the equation – if you believe that we who do not believe in a god as a necessary signpost or beacon to keep us on the right path are limited, than you have badly limited us (especially if we are part of your god anyway).  I don’t know if you understand – we too are not perfect but what reminders do we need?  (our spouses take care of that  )  We don’t think believing or disbelieving in a god adds or subtracts blessings – that’s the foolishness we see in theism – the thanks needed goes to our friends, family, society in general.  If we survive a disease, it is the doctors and accumulated knowledge that have helped us – your” god is everything” belief is fine, but it really is nothing.  Its actually thousands of  times more cool to realize that this huge long evolution on this planet has given civilization what it is based only on random chemical interactions  - imagine THAT -  as YOU keep saying, clear your mind and see it from a new view.

[YY]

You can be grateful for many things.  I am grateful that I have a job, and can pay my bills.  I am grateful that my family is healthy.  I am very grateful for the BJ my wife just gave me.  But god(s) had no part in any of those.  I got my job because I met all of the criteria of my employers, my family is healthy because their immune systems are successfully fighting bacteria, and my wife gave me a BJ because I asked her to... and also because I bought her a new purse today.  LOL  The line with gratitude becomes worship is when you attribute all the things in your life to the divine intervention of some spiritual being.  The universe has no set course, I have no pre-determined path, and sometimes shit just happens.

Ah, this is good. It's all perception and this is where we differ. You believe that YOU are the reason for your success. You think that you are the one who secured your job and you pay your bills on your own etc.

I believe that there is a complex web of interaction between all things involved that leads me to my happiness in life. You give no credit to the luck of the draw of being born in a country free from poverty, disease, access to clean water, internet, people in your life that help you to acheive and attain the finer things in life. As I believe that God is everything, I believe that everything had a part to play in my success and thank "God" for everything in my life.

Please explain to me how YOU are responsible for your family's health. I don't take for granted all of the good (and bad) things in my life and I am thankful and constantly remind myself with my prayer of gratitude.

And if you rebooted and clear your mind of filters, you might understand what I am saying.

I guess we both think the other is being close minded. No more argument on that point.

[hypagoga]

I believe that there is a complex web of interaction between all things involved that leads me to my happiness in life. You give no credit to the luck of the draw of being born in a country free from poverty, disease, access to clean water, internet, people in your life that help you to acheive and attain the finer things in life. As I believe that God is everything, I believe that everything had a part to play in my success and thank "God" for everything in my life.

If there is this complex god-web, why are there countries with poverty, disease, no access to clean water, etc., so everyone (all of which are apparently god) can attain the finer things in life? If it's just all god, why is god both suffering and succeeding? Why would the god-web interactions support hurting one part of itself to benefit (or to neutral effect) another part of itself?